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    Morithias's Avatar

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    Default Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Seeing how my google searches are failing me at this, and I've wanted or needed this for plot reasons many times as a DM.

    What would the epic spell DC/Creation of a spell that grants someone the "Wedded to History" feat cost?

    I'm assuming that making the spell grant a feat rather than extend the life via the fortify seed would make it cheaper.

    Basically I want "You stop ageing" in spell form. Cast it on an 18 year old, and they're both physically and mentally 18 forever.

    However there is a catch.

    The person can't be turned into an outsider, or undead, or construct, or anything like that.

    I know that since I'm technically the DM, I could just rule 0 it, but I HATE doing that.

    Basically I have a rule as a DM, if the players asks for crunch, I give them crunch. This is so I can do stuff like the Gladiator Iron wall, and use tricks that they may have not known or thought of against them without it being cheap. If I can show them the numbers, it's not cheating, so to speak, since they could do it too.

    So yeah. Thanks for the help with this.

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    The same article that included Wedded to History also included a spell, kissed by the ages, that grants the Endless quality. It's 9th-level, Sor/Wiz, Necromancy. It does have a limitation in that it creates a "totem" that you need to hold onto to keep your Endless quality. It also does not give the Wedded to History feat, or the benefits of any of the options that Wedded to History allows you to take.

    Also, strictly speaking, Wedded to History... might not? give the Endless quality. The feat's fluff implies that you have lived an extremely long time, but that does not necessarily mean that you are (or ever were) Endless. But if it does, then the 18-year-old could just take the feat...

    Anyway, an Epic spell like you want would only be a tiny-bit better than kissed by the ages, which is itself ridiculously over-leveled and limited.

    Or you could just say that the character became an Elan; Elan are humans who have undergone some special process such that they no longer age. Their type is Aberration, but it's not just a generic "polymorph into an Aberration," it's literally a process almost exactly like what you describe. With Elan as precedent, there is an implication that a never-aging Human is an Aberration.


    Finally, and most importantly, aging is really, really not mechanically important. It's almost entirely within a matter of fluff. I wouldn't bat an eye at a DM who just said an NPC was so, and I'd be surprised if a DM denied me the chance to play such a character just by stating that I am so (at least, as far as mechanical balance is concerned).
    Last edited by Answerer; 2012-11-17 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Honestly this could probably be done with inventive application of non-epic spells should I be remembering the feat correctly. Some level loss down to level 1 and the application of any one of the various feat adding methods. A greater restoration and you're back.

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Well it's meant to be used by a corrupt ruler who's using it in combination with the "monsterous thrall" spell, to keep his harem young and loyal forever.

    I'd prefer if it didn't cost XP, but it looks like Kissed by the Ages is my best choice so far...damn that 5000 xp per girl is expensive though...

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Remember, though, that XP is a river, and ultimate the BBEG is supposed to be of a certain level not having attained some fixed amount of XP. Maybe it took him a little longer (though probably not as much longer as you'd think) to attain his level, but that's backstory anyway. It's not like ageless harem girls are going to make him any more difficult to defeat.

    Anyway, though, one simple solution could be giving him a Staff that has kissed by the ages on it: the XP costs are paid by whoever made it. He's a BBEG, so it's not odd or unusual for his wealth to be flexible, so the costs of the staff can be pretty freely eye-balled anyway.

    To my mind, the primary impetus behind not DM-fiating things is to make the world consistent: something the BBEG can do, the players ought to be able to do. They can recover the staff, or find his spellbook, and use kissed by the ages to make his own set of ageless harem girls, or whatever.

    Honestly, houseruling kissed by the ages to be 1. lower level, 2. without the bauble, and 3. without (as large) an XP cost would be entirely reasonable, IMO. The spell's not really deserving of its spell slot as it is, much less the other limitations.

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Quote Originally Posted by Morithias View Post
    Well it's meant to be used by a corrupt ruler who's using it in combination with the "monsterous thrall" spell, to keep his harem young and loyal forever.

    I'd prefer if it didn't cost XP, but it looks like Kissed by the Ages is my best choice so far...damn that 5000 xp per girl is expensive though...
    500 souls for a really sexy lady that never stops being sexy? Totally worth it

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Quote Originally Posted by Morithias View Post
    Well it's meant to be used by a corrupt ruler who's using it in combination with the "monsterous thrall" spell, to keep his harem young and loyal forever.

    I'd prefer if it didn't cost XP, but it looks like Kissed by the Ages is my best choice so far...damn that 5000 xp per girl is expensive though...
    Book of Vile Darkness, page 106: Steal Life. Sor/Wiz 8. You cast it on a humanoid. Cast on the night of the full moon, the caster youthens 1 week per ability point drained. Your stock commoner, with a bit of work, can be drained of some 60 ability points before it turns into a dry dessicated husk.

    Make a custom item of it that can do the spell at will, but can only be invoked on the night of the full moon inside the palace. Hand it to the harem girls, one at a time, each spends six minutes draining their sacrificial commoner. So those 500 harem girls cost him 500 subjects every year (well, 501. He does this himself, as well, I imagine...). If the harem girls run away, they lose their ability to reverse the ageing process. Get the right targets, and you don't even need True Dominion any more to pull this off.

    There. Very corrupt thing for a ruler to do, Fully RAW, other than the custom magic item creation, which is spelled out how to do in the DMG. And you barely need to come up with an actual price for it at all, as it's kinda useless as loot.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2012-11-17 at 11:49 AM.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Book of Vile Darkness, page 106: Steal Life. Sor/Wiz 8. You cast it on a humanoid. Cast on the night of the full moon, the caster youthens 1 week per ability point drained. Your stock commoner, with a bit of work, can be drained of some 60 ability points before it turns into a dry dessicated husk.

    Make a custom item of it that can do the spell at will, but can only be invoked on the night of the full moon inside the palace. Hand it to the harem girls, one at a time, each spends six minutes draining their sacrificial commoner. So those 500 harem girls cost him 500 subjects every year (well, 501. He does this himself, as well, I imagine...). If the harem girls run away, they lose their ability to reverse the ageing process. Get the right targets, and you don't even need True Dominion any more to pull this off.

    There. Very corrupt thing for a ruler to do, Fully RAW, other than the custom magic item creation, which is spelled out how to do in the DMG. And you barely need to come up with an actual price for it at all, as it's kinda useless as loot.
    Maybe you could even fluff this as some sort of retirement plan, or program meant to cull the weak from the group. Say, if you're in the lowest percentile group, you go to the harem?

    Less evilly, make it be voluntary; if you sign up to be haremized, you get special tax breaks. Then, raise the taxes so that they can't survive without the tax break. Hold a lottery each year.
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    People don't *live* on the Disc anymore than, in less hand-crafted parts of the multiverse, they live on balls. Oh, planets may be the place where their body eats its tea, but they *live* elsewhere, in worlds of their own which orbit very handily around the center of their heads. ~Terry Pratchett again

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    Default Re: Epic spell that grants the Endless trait/feat

    Very nice ideas. Thanks for the ideas and consideration. I think I know what I'm going to do.

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