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    Raistlin1040's Avatar

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    Default "Dark Magic" Class?

    I'm working on creating a character that specializes in some kind of dark magic, be it necromancy or demon summoning, or just some kind of fluff-based forbidden knowledge type thing. I know Dread Necromancer and Warlock, but our party already has a Warlock, and I am trying to see if there's anything I overlooked. So far I've considered Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Dread Necro, and Cleric, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of a class that has the feel of what I've described, and where I could find it. Thanks!
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Have you looked into Binder?
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Hexblade is the big one that you missed. There's also binder and shadowcaster. Other than that, there might be a few prestige classes out there for that kind of stuff, like Alienist, Acolyte of the Skin, Nar Demonbinder and Fleshwarper.

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Binder (Tome of Magic) is definitely my choice for a base class.

    Other good base classes, aside from those you listed.... Sha'ir (Dragon Compendium) would be pretty good if you refluffed the genies as fiends. Archivist (Heroes of Horror) is more like a paranormal investigator, but could definitely work with his Dark Knowledge class feature.

    For Prestige Classes, a spellcaster could go into Malconvoker (Complete Scoundrel) for great fiend summoning. If you're Divine, there's always the Thaumaturge, which is not awful.

    Warlock could go into Hellfire Warlock (Fiendish Codex II), or for a fairly underpowered option, Demonbinder (Drow of the Underdark, or from the excerpt). Possibly even both.

    The Fiendbinder (Tome of Magic) does exist, but it's pretty weak. Then again, calling fiends is often a high-power tactic so that might be appropriate.

    Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East) is good at summoning, but kinda weird to enter. Wizard or (better, if you'll allow it) Sha'ir and then using Ultimate Magus for progressing both your prepared casting and Nar Demonbinder's a pretty good schtick.

    Ur-Priest (Complete Divine) is another one that's somewhat awkward to enter, but it's much more obviously potent. It's also very appropriate. A Binder/Ur-Priest/Tenebrous Apostate just oozes flavor.
    Last edited by Answerer; 2012-11-17 at 05:10 PM.

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Hexblade, Jester, Binder, Sha'ir, Archivist, Wizard, Cleric, Conjurer (don't ban necromancy), Dread Necromancer...

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Be a wizard/dread necro/whatever you want, wear a lot of black and angst about the demon slowly taking over your soul.

    Also, +1 to binder. It's a fun class, very versatile.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    A wise man once said: "There is no light or dark magic. There is magic wielded by good people and there is magic wielded by complete b******s."
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Binder, Shadowcaster, Dread Necromancer, Ur-Priest, Red Wizard of Thay, becoming a Lich, Sandshaper, pick any casting PrC from BoVD ...
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Anima Mage is another good one, and offers the Binder (already a good class) a potential giant upgrade in power.

    For an extremely flavorful and less (potentially) OP build, work with your DM to make Anima Mage advance binder and warlock instead of binder and arcane spell caster. IMO in makes for a more synergistic build, since the full casting side of the anima mage can make the binder side rather redundant.

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    With enough re-fluff you could use Wu-jen or also a Psion (or other Psi class).
    Just say that there is only one place in the multiverse that is darker then the negative energy plane, more twisted then Limbo and more terrifying then the entire Abyss. And this is the place you draw your power from.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Amazingly, a malconvoker works, if you ignore or switch out the abilities dealing with deceiving fiends and staying Good while doing so. After all, the class is still about summoning fiends.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Cancer Mage, because nothing says evil like giving people cancer.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    ? Was is das?
    Pretty sure it's from the dragon compendium, but don't quote me on that.

    Hexblade fits the fluff, but it may be a bit weak. It's a fairly quick entry into suel archanamach though.

    I'd say more, but all the good suggestions are already taken.

    There is one bad suggestion (read; horribly overpowered) though; Heroes of Horror's tainted scholar PrC. It absolutely reeks of a caster partaking of forbidden knowledge and power. It also reeks of cheese, though.
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    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    There is one bad suggestion (read; horribly overpowered) though; Heroes of Horror's tainted scholar PrC. It absolutely reeks of a caster partaking of forbidden knowledge and power. It also reeks of cheese, though.
    It also requires use of an optional rule that's not in effect in most campaigns.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    It also requires use of an optional rule that's not in effect in most campaigns.
    This makes it less of a bad option, how?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
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    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    You can do anything with Wizard, Cleric or even Sorcerer.

    How about a Dark Bard - aiming for Sublime Chord? This is a late flowering Sorcerer version, but you're Alice Cooper.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    This makes it less of a bad option, how?
    I was in fact impying that that makes it an even worse option. You know, because "not possible" generally equals "not good."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    A wise man once said: "There is no light or dark magic. There is magic wielded by good people and there is magic wielded by complete b******s."
    dresden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Pretty sure it's from the dragon compendium, but don't quote me on that.
    jester actually is in dragon compendium.

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    You can do anything with Wizard, Cleric or even Sorcerer.

    How about a Dark Bard - aiming for Sublime Chord? This is a late flowering Sorcerer version, but you're Alice Cooper.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Where do I find doomspeak ?
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    A wise man once said: "There is no light or dark magic. There is magic wielded by good people and there is magic wielded by complete b******s."
    I agree with this. Magic is gray. It's uses and applications can be Evil, just as it's uses and applications can be Good. The fact any spell has an alignment descriptor is disturbing to me. My personal favorite application of normally Evil magic is to planar bind an Evil Outsider, Use a Binding Spell to permanently seal it (getting a Caster level of 38 is child's play) if it says "No", and order it to willingly fail the next spell that attacks it. Cast Mind Rape. Order it to serve you for the rest of eternity. Have it wander the plane building orphanages and slaying Evil creatures (except himself).

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Where do I find doomspeak ?
    champions of ruin, page 20

    agree on magic is a tool, how you use it is what makes you good or evil.

    escalation mage is a fun option for this vein. it's in faiths of eberron. worship the shadow and get free metamagic a bunch of times a day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Maho-Tsukai from Oriental Adventures is the classic "regular caster being drawn to the great power of the dark side" blood magicky stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    Maho-Tsukai from Oriental Adventures is the classic "regular caster being drawn to the great power of the dark side" blood magicky stuff.
    It's also the original incarnation of the tainted scholar.

    It went maho-tsukai (OA) -> tainted sorcerer (UA) -> tainted scholar (HoH), and now you know.

    And knowing is half the battle.

    .Showing my age with that one, huh?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    It's also the original incarnation of the tainted scholar.

    It went maho-tsukai (OA) -> tainted sorcerer (UA) -> tainted scholar (HoH), and now you know.

    And knowing is half the battle.

    .Showing my age with that one, huh?.
    Eh. But the Taint rules from OA are different, and much less cheesy. Also the SpC is 3.5 and talks about adding spells to the Maho-Tsukai list. I wouldn't necessarily say it was updated, it has it's very own weabooy flavor!
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem
    RIP Visigani

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    The taint mechanics got tweaked a little in all three incarnations too, but it really doesn't matter.

    All three versions of the class are inherently, horribly overpowered and utterly reek of power-gaming cheese.

    I only ever brought the thing up for completeness' sake.

    Who knows? the op's DM might be willing to work with him on incorporating a house-ruled to functional version of the class into the game. Kind of a long-shot, IMO, but what the heck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    The taint mechanics got tweaked a little in all three incarnations too, but it really doesn't matter.

    All three versions of the class are inherently, horribly overpowered and utterly reek of power-gaming cheese.

    I only ever brought the thing up for completeness' sake.

    Who knows? the op's DM might be willing to work with him on incorporating a house-ruled to functional version of the class into the game. Kind of a long-shot, IMO, but what the heck.
    True. I like the flavor of all of them and all of them being the sort of forbidden great power, but I don't think it's really meant for a PC. Maybe a BBG of ridiculous power but... no not a PC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem
    RIP Visigani

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Tainted Scholar from Heroes of Horror is a prestige class that may work very well.

    Swordsaged/ or is it Monked now??? Sorry Kelb_Panthera, I only saw Hexblade in that post, I read too fast.
    Last edited by Talionis; 2012-11-19 at 04:22 PM.

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
    Tainted Scholar from Heroes of Horror is a prestige class that may work very well.
    You done been Monk'd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem
    RIP Visigani

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    Default Re: "Dark Magic" Class?

    For the whole 'dark magic that man must not know' thing, Binder wins basically hands down.

    I personally like Binder/Wizard/Anima Mage, as that gives off the 'dark magic' feel the very best. Keep in mind, though, that your character's attitude and personality will make the magic, any magic, be 'dark'. Without it, even the darkest of foulevil magic comes off like a saturday morning cartoon.

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