Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 39
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    border of sanity& madness
    Gender
    Male

    Default empowered maximized awakened plants

    when a plan is awakened it is give 3d6 for all of its mental stats

    but one of my players of an upcoming campaign is trying to claim that he can be a symbiotic human plant with 18 + 3d6 for all of his mental stats since the plant he is bonded with was awakened with an empowered maximized awaken.

    now that ive looked into it, im not sure he can apply empower or maximize to the awaken spell. Though the stat gains are variables, the spell is a saving throw based spell so i believe that it would not work.

    He claimed he read on the forum that this is works and is perfectly acceptable. I on the other hand am not so sure. If i openly claim that he can't do this he will now doubt complain endlessly because it supposedly says somewhere on the forum he can. I was hoping someone may be able to shed so more light on this.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    "What's the level adjustment of the Awakened template? How about Animated Object template? Oh there isn't one? Than it isn't available for player characters, only npc's."
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-18 at 12:23 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    The feat combo does in fact work. The saving throw line means only that the DCs of the saving throws are not increased by the feats. Only the variable numeric effects (which 3d6 is) are affected.

    However as Gavinfoxx said, Awakened plants are treated as Animated Objects, which have an LA of -, meaning they aren't suitable for PCs.
    Settings: Weird West
    Work in Progress: Fulcrum

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    "What's the level adjustment of the Awakened template? Oh there isn't one? Than it isn't available for player characters, only npc's."
    Awakened may have the effects of a template, but it doesnt actually apply a template.

    The thing is, creatures/plants it is applied to typically do not have LA, as a result of having too little int to take class levels.

    and if you want to get hit with an epic spell for awakening, you might as well get hit with an Intensified Awaken that gives 36 base int.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
    The Glyphstone's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    If he whines when you say no, give him the burden of proof - if he can't show you exactly where on the forums he's 'allowed to do this', he can't. And if he can, show him this thread and say he can't anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Jungian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    I'm a little confused as to what exactly a symbiotic human plant is...I believe awaken can be maximized and empowered. The way I read the feat is that saving throws and opposed rolls are not altered by empower or maximize, not that having a saving throw excludes the spell from being empowered or maximized. The example in the maximize spell description is an empowered maximized fireball, which has a saving throw for 1/2 damage.

    Answered upthread

    If the player wants to be difficult just say that a symbiotic create has a shared consciousness, and that intelligence isn't additive. So what you have is a intelligent person with an equally intelligent plant attached. Personally I would allow the plant to be awakened, then promptly decide to take root and give up this mammalian movement nonsense, or strangle him and absorb him as nutrients.
    Last edited by Jungian; 2012-11-18 at 12:21 AM.
    Character Sheets


    The week of June 17, my time to post will be reduced. Expect for posting to return to full capacity by June 24.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    I believe you guys are missing the point... He said symbiotic... WITH an awakened plant. While I believe he is in some way correct that it could have been empowered/maximized and awakened the template for symbiotic is ultimately a background part of his character. As a DM I would rule that there are very few awakened SYMBIOTIC plants out there and those that are empowered/maximized are even more rare and would not end up on a low level character, and therefore he should take the symbiotic plant and roll stats as normal without empowered/maximized, as either way this will net him higher stats than normal plus the immunities from being plant-like.

    ~wannabe

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Wouldn't the easiest answer be to apply the Symbiotic Template from Savage Species?

    This neatly avoids the "i want to add scores" issue by pointing to existing rules.

    Symbiotic is a template that can be added to any two living creatures of the following types: animal, humanoid, plant, or vermin. [...] One (hereafter referred to as the guest) must be at least two size categories smaller than the other (hereafter referred to as the host).
    [...]
    Abilities: Use the physical scores (STR DEX CON) of the host and the mental scores (INT WIS CHA) of the guest (minimum INT3).
    Depending on the size of the awakened plant, either he can't do it (no size difference), he's mentally in control with the plants physical scores (tree-borg), or he becomes an NPC because the plant takes him over for its own desires.
    Last edited by dungeonnerd; 2012-11-18 at 12:34 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    The actual way the OP is asking about doesnt work, as the symbiot overrides the bonded creature's Mental attributes.

    but either way, PCs are not supposed to get 27 base Int, Wis, and Cha, or 36 in all three.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Biffoniacus_Furiou's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Let's see what he's talking about here:

    The Symbiotic Creature template, in Savage Species, which combines a 'host' with a 'guest' to create an end result. That end result has a +1 LA, uses the HD and physical stats of the Host, and the mental stats of the Guest. You retain all of the special attacks and special qualities of both creatures. The Host must be at least two sizes larger than the Guest, and both must be from the animal, humanoid, plant, or vermin creature types. Also note that the end result's creature type changes to Aberration, so he would not retain any benefits of the plant creature type (immunities, etc.).

    Just to point out, that's one of the more abusable templates in the game due to the fact that it ignores the HD and LA of the Guest. At least he's not trying to throw Paragon onto the Guest.

    Awaken can be cast on an animal or a tree, nothing else. An Empowered + Maximized Awaken will give an awakened tree Int, Wis, and Cha scores each of 18+(3d6/2), which will average 28.5. Note that an awakened tree is friendly toward the individual who cast Awaken, and with the plant creature type they're immune to anything mind-affecting, which could include Diplomacy at the DM's discretion.

    Note that a friendly attitude is not enough for it to permanently bond to another creature unless it's in the best interest of the awakened tree, assuming the potential Host is even the one who cast it. Also keep in mind that trees are extremely long-lived and grow quite large, so it would probably prefer to attach to a creature which will live quite a long time and give it the greatest room to grow, so the bigger the potential Host the better. Remember that a Host can only accommodate a Guest of two sizes smaller. It may outright abandon the PC for the first giant that crosses their path, as that would give it hundreds of years and plenty of room to grow.

    So there you have it, almost zero chance of convincing an awakened tree to become a Guest unless you cast Awaken yourself or you happen to be quite large and are expected to live hundreds of years. Think of the Ents from the Lord of the Rings and their attitude toward adventure, that's how an Awakened Tree would feel so it would be far more likely to attach to a lazy ogre. Even if a PC gets one as a Guest, it could abandon him without any notice if a bigger, less adventurous potential Host were to reveal himself. So by DM discretion, it actually balances itself.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Also, shouldn't it be 18+ 1.5d6? Not totally sure how to work it out RAW, we usually roll 3d6 and divide by 2.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliek View Post
    Also, shouldn't it be 18+ 1.5d6? Not totally sure how to work it out RAW, we usually roll 3d6 and divide by 2.
    its 27, unless Wizards said that Maximize doesnt affect dice from empower


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ceaon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Maximize and Empower work seperately from each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Maximize Spell [Metamagic]

    Benefit All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. A maximized spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

    An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result.
    So it'd be max(3d6) + .5(3d6).

    That said, I think it's a cool idea - even though it isn't RAW, couldn't you and the player work something out?
    Last edited by Ceaon; 2012-11-18 at 11:34 AM.
    Stefan avatar by Ceika.

    “...” – Crono (Chrono Trigger), Ryu (Breath of Fire), Link (The Legend of Zelda), Red (Pokémon), Mario (Super Mario RPG), Gordon Freeman (Half-Life), Randi (Secret of Mana) and The Avatar (Ultima)

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    its 27, unless Wizards said that Maximize doesnt affect dice from empower
    Pretty sure maximize says it in the Player's handbook on page 98, top left.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Contingency is like playing chess but you get to make several moves on your turn, several on you opponents turn and you're aloud to rearrange the board when he gets up to go to the bathroom.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Pretty sure maximize says it in the Player's handbook on page 98, top left.
    doesnt change the fact that a metamagic other then Intensify is a waste on Awaken


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    doesnt change the fact that a metamagic other then Intensify is a waste on Awaken
    Not disputing that at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Contingency is like playing chess but you get to make several moves on your turn, several on you opponents turn and you're aloud to rearrange the board when he gets up to go to the bathroom.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Ashtagon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    The correct answer is:

    No, because am the DM and I say no.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    The correct answer is:

    No, because am the DM and I say no.
    anyone who wants to make a Symbiote creature should already have their character concept banned, as it typically will include a Paragon Intensified Awakened Dread Blossom Swarm.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Urpriest's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kitchener/Waterloo
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Let's see what he's talking about here:

    The Symbiotic Creature template, in Savage Species, which combines a 'host' with a 'guest' to create an end result. That end result has a +1 LA, uses the HD and physical stats of the Host, and the mental stats of the Guest. You retain all of the special attacks and special qualities of both creatures. The Host must be at least two sizes larger than the Guest, and both must be from the animal, humanoid, plant, or vermin creature types. Also note that the end result's creature type changes to Aberration, so he would not retain any benefits of the plant creature type (immunities, etc.).

    Just to point out, that's one of the more abusable templates in the game due to the fact that it ignores the HD and LA of the Guest. At least he's not trying to throw Paragon onto the Guest.

    Awaken can be cast on an animal or a tree, nothing else. An Empowered + Maximized Awaken will give an awakened tree Int, Wis, and Cha scores each of 18+(3d6/2), which will average 28.5. Note that an awakened tree is friendly toward the individual who cast Awaken, and with the plant creature type they're immune to anything mind-affecting, which could include Diplomacy at the DM's discretion.

    Note that a friendly attitude is not enough for it to permanently bond to another creature unless it's in the best interest of the awakened tree, assuming the potential Host is even the one who cast it. Also keep in mind that trees are extremely long-lived and grow quite large, so it would probably prefer to attach to a creature which will live quite a long time and give it the greatest room to grow, so the bigger the potential Host the better. Remember that a Host can only accommodate a Guest of two sizes smaller. It may outright abandon the PC for the first giant that crosses their path, as that would give it hundreds of years and plenty of room to grow.

    So there you have it, almost zero chance of convincing an awakened tree to become a Guest unless you cast Awaken yourself or you happen to be quite large and are expected to live hundreds of years. Think of the Ents from the Lord of the Rings and their attitude toward adventure, that's how an Awakened Tree would feel so it would be far more likely to attach to a lazy ogre. Even if a PC gets one as a Guest, it could abandon him without any notice if a bigger, less adventurous potential Host were to reveal himself. So by DM discretion, it actually balances itself.
    A few corrections:
    The tree can't abandon you. Yes, it can Detach, but it has no ability to attach to anyone who isn't you.

    The tree, except when detached, isn't an NPC. A symbiotic creature is one creature, not two, and thus is played by the player.

    A template's level adjustment applies on top of the base creature's level adjustment. Since there are two base creatures in this case and neither is given clear priority, you have to read the template to see which is referred to. When such a listing is absent, you wait for errata before using the template. So in this case we need to wait for errata that will never come. Sigh. But regardless, there is no a priori reason to think either the host or the guest is favored. Note that Tauric specifies this detail, if in the wrong place, so clearly the writers knew what was required.

    Becoming a symbiotic creature doesn't necessarily involve choice, it's an acquired template but we don't know how it's acquired, so there is no reason that the tree needs to be helpful first.

    As a side issue, do you have any evidence that Diplomacy is [Mind Affecting]?
    Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor

    Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    One of the unwritten rules of Giantitp is that Urpriest is always right.
    Trophy!
    Spoiler
    Show


    original Urpriest (by Andraste)

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Clistenes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Two things:

    First, the text of Awaken says "Target: One animal or tree" and "The touched animal or tree gains sentience", so the plant must be a tree, hence, not smaller than himself, so the human would be the small creature of the template (and the three would be at least Huge, with 8 HD).

    He couldn't use the 18 to every mental stats of the Maximized Awaken spell, because the smaller creature is the one giving the mix its mental stats.

    He could still roll the abilities of the human being and put the str, dex and con at 3, while he raises the int, cha and wis to a maximum, BUT then comes the second point:

    The symbiotic creature has +1 LA due to the symbiotic template, plus at least 8 aberration HD of the awakened three, plus maybe +1 or +2 LA for the awakened creature.

    So he wants to play a freakish (everybody will fear and hate him) aberration of Huge size with dex 8, 8 racial HD and +1 to +3 LA? Be unable to use armor and weapons that aren't custom-made? In exchange for a strength of 20 (which a half-orc can get without level adjustment) and high mental stats (but he will have to reach level 10 before being able to cast a spell)? Let him do it.
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2012-11-18 at 01:03 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Urpriest's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kitchener/Waterloo
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Two things:

    First, the text of Awaken says "Target: One animal or tree" and "The touched animal or tree gains sentience", so the plant must be a tree, hence, not smaller than himself, so the human would be the small creature of the template (and the three would be at least Huge, with 8 HD).
    I imagine the idea is to use a bonsai tree.
    Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor

    Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    One of the unwritten rules of Giantitp is that Urpriest is always right.
    Trophy!
    Spoiler
    Show


    original Urpriest (by Andraste)

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Clistenes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    I imagine the idea is to use a bonsai tree.
    Then the human must grow the bonsai first, which requires a high skill check in Knowledge (Nature)

    But, seriously, when the spell says a tree I think it means a natural, big, grown three.
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2012-11-18 at 01:56 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    I imagine the idea is to use a bonsai tree.
    We have the stats for an animated tree or an awakened tree.

    Just which rulebook gives the stats for a Bonsai Tree and says it's targetted as a tree?

    This is a build using RAW as it's justification, you don't get to declare a thing exists unless you can point to it in a rulebook. If it isn't the size of a tree as found in the monster manual or stated in it's stat block in some source in use to be targettable by spells that target trees then it isn't available to awaken as a tree.

    RAW builds need to follow RAW. This doesn't.

    But even if I conceaded the existence of this made up item with no RAW justification, and even if I then conceaded that it's a legitimate target for the spell despite the spell not saying that made up plants are such targets, and even if I conceeded that symbiotic can use made up creatures that are less than their natural size (like using an infant efreet and claiming to get it's wish and full adult mental abilities at smaller size) then I'd still need to be convinced that the now awakened bonsai will let anyone KEEP it a bonsai tree by drastically overpruning now that it's awakened and mobile. Good luck with that.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Clistenes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    We have the stats for an animated tree or an awakened tree.

    Just which rulebook gives the stats for a Bonsai Tree and says it's targetted as a tree?

    This is a build using RAW as it's justification, you don't get to declare a thing exists unless you can point to it in a rulebook. If it isn't the size of a tree as found in the monster manual or stated in it's stat block in some source in use to be targettable by spells that target trees then it isn't available to awaken as a tree.

    RAW builds need to follow RAW. This doesn't.

    But even if I conceaded the existence of this made up item with no RAW justification, and even if I then conceaded that it's a legitimate target for the spell despite the spell not saying that made up plants are such targets, and even if I conceeded that symbiotic can use made up creatures that are less than their natural size (like using an infant efreet and claiming to get it's wish and full adult mental abilities at smaller size) then I'd still need to be convinced that the now awakened bonsai will let anyone KEEP it a bonsai tree by drastically overpruning now that it's awakened and mobile. Good luck with that.
    I think you would use the stats of a tiny animated object but giving it a constitution stat. Other people says that you should use the physical stats of a treant, as Liveoak, but I think the most correct thing is to use an animated object as a model.

    Anyway, I think a bonsai wouldn't count as a tree. We only call the bonsais "trees" for cultural reasons, but if you found that in nature you wouldn't call it a tree.

    EDIT: I found the definition of tree "In botany, a tree is a perennial woody plant with a single main trunk taller than about 2 metres, with xylem tissue in the trunk and branches that continues to enlarge during the life of the plant by the process of secondary growth."
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2012-11-18 at 02:04 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Urpriest's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kitchener/Waterloo
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    We have the stats for an animated tree or an awakened tree.

    Just which rulebook gives the stats for a Bonsai Tree and says it's targetted as a tree?

    This is a build using RAW as it's justification, you don't get to declare a thing exists unless you can point to it in a rulebook. If it isn't the size of a tree as found in the monster manual or stated in it's stat block in some source in use to be targettable by spells that target trees then it isn't available to awaken as a tree.

    RAW builds need to follow RAW. This doesn't.

    But even if I conceaded the existence of this made up item with no RAW justification, and even if I then conceaded that it's a legitimate target for the spell despite the spell not saying that made up plants are such targets, and even if I conceeded that symbiotic can use made up creatures that are less than their natural size (like using an infant efreet and claiming to get it's wish and full adult mental abilities at smaller size) then I'd still need to be convinced that the now awakened bonsai will let anyone KEEP it a bonsai tree by drastically overpruning now that it's awakened and mobile. Good luck with that.
    There are no stats for trees, period. Awakened trees gain animated object stats, and animated objects exist from Tiny up to Colossal, so all that the RAW says on that score is that a tree must be in that size range. What is the typical size of an Awakened Tree? Huge? Gargantuan? We have no way of knowing, short of examining real trees.

    As for objecting to pruning, remember, the tree is part of the PC now. It does whatever the PC wants it to do. Familiars and the like have reason to be DM-controlled, but in this case it's literally the same creature due to how the Symbiotic template works. That said, pruning might do damage, which would be a problem. Also, probably it won't grow past Tiny during the typical matter of months it takes an adventurer to go 1-20.
    Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor

    Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    One of the unwritten rules of Giantitp is that Urpriest is always right.
    Trophy!
    Spoiler
    Show


    original Urpriest (by Andraste)

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    the tree is part of the PC now
    don't you mean treeC?

    as far as maximized empowered's order of operations it is indeed the max +1/2 normally rolled result so will be somewhere between 19 and 27.

    you're playing in a weird game. honestly, I didn't know that symbiotic was a template until reading this thread. best of luck to resolving this situation, I don't think I have further rules clarifications that haven't already been mentioned.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    don't you mean treeC?

    as far as maximized empowered's order of operations it is indeed the max +1/2 normally rolled result so will be somewhere between 19 and 27.

    you're playing in a weird game. honestly, I didn't know that symbiotic was a template until reading this thread. best of luck to resolving this situation, I don't think I have further rules clarifications that haven't already been mentioned.
    Symbiote is a template, Awaken isnt


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Trees actually go fairly frequently into the colossal category (like redwoods), or even colossal+ (largest tree ). That would be the coolest symbiote of all time.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    By RAW they can't do it at all because there is no listed LA. But you can decide what you think is a fair LA and then let the player play it.

    As a rule of thumb I'd say 4 int or 4 AC is worth about an LA. But note that physical abilities and mental abilities don't combine well. So you should base LA on the higher of the two, plus only a little more to account for the other. Likewise for multiple mental stats since most casters only use 1.

    IMO:
    Empowered Maximized Awakened medium tree
    • +2 strength, +12 intelligence, +12 wisdom, +12 charisma
    • +4 natural armor
    • Hardness 5 (for most purposes: DR 5/-, and reduced damage from energy attacks as well)
    • Speed 30 ft.
    • Slam 1d6 + 1.5 str mod
    • Constrict 1d6 + 1.5 str mod
    • Darkvision 60 ft., low light vision
    • Plant Type
    • 2 racial hit dice: d8s, 2 + int skill points, +1 BAB, +3 fort/+0 ref/+0 will
    • 2 LA


    Yes -4 caster levels hurts a lot but save DCs similar to +12 caster levels are very nice and so are the defenses. Especially plant immunities. In a high optimization game I might say 1 LA though. I went with a medium tree because I assume the player wants a caster. Larger trees would add more racial hd, but hey whatever he wants.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-11-18 at 04:32 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    UK

    Default Re: empowered maximized awakened plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Anyway, I think a bonsai wouldn't count as a tree. We only call the bonsais "trees" for cultural reasons, but if you found that in nature you wouldn't call it a tree.
    You can very rarely find natural bonsai, though they're pretty huge compared to the bonsai you see in garden centres.

    If it's not a tree, what is it?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •