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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Damage reduction ?

    Hello, I need some help figuring how all the damage reduction works. I hope you can help me by answering these questions.

    1. Can they reduce damage to 0 or 1 ?

    2. "Damage reduction does not negate energy damage dealt along with an attack"
    - energy damage is shock/cold/fire etc right ?

    3. "Damage reduction/piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage (Ex)."
    -These you can overcome by simple +1 weapon (+1 ench bonus to dmg/attack, not +1 from ability on weapon? or do both work in this case?)


    4. "Damage reduction/alchemical silver (Su), adamantine (Ex), or cold-forged iron (Su)."
    -These can not be overcomed by magical weapons ?

    5. "Damage reduction/alignament"
    -these can be overcomed only by an aligned weapon ?

    6. Any damage caused by spells overcomes all of these damage reductions ?

    Thank you for answering those!

    EDIT: 3.5e !
    Last edited by mirror; 2012-11-18 at 07:03 AM.

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    Ashtagon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    1. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0, but no lower.

    2. Damage reduction only works against physical damage (bludgeoning, slashing, piercing). It has no effect on energy damage (fire, electricity, acid, sonic, force, cold), nor does it affect positive/negative energy damage (which were renamed radiant/necrotic in 4e). The jury is out on whether it affects falling damage. RAW says no, but common sense says yes, as that is simply a special case of bludgeoning damage.

    3. A longsword +1 will not bypass DR 5/bludgeoning. Only a bludgeoning weapon would bypass that specific kind of DR. The sword still has its normal effect, but so does the DR (overall damage will be 1d8 +1 (magic) -5 (DR)).

    4. A magic weapon will not bypass DR 5/mithral. Only a mithral weapon would bypass it.

    5. Correct. Only an aligned attack will bypass it. The aligned property could be because the weapon is magical, from a spell, or from a class feature.

    6. Spells that deal energy damage always ignore DR (but they may be affected by energy resistance). Spells that deal physical damage can be affected by DR, but depending on the specific kind of damage, they may be able to bypass the DR. A spell that deals slashing damage will bypass DR 5/slashing, and a spell that deals damage as if it were a lawful weapon will bypass DR 5/law.

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Thank you for this fast answer!
    But this really puts me in an awkward spot. I was pretty sure those kinds of magic weapons overcome those DR, I don't know what led me to believe that, something I read, or was it another thing we house ruled 10 years ago. Was this maybe a rule in 3.0 ??

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Ah, i just read it, that rule was changed in 3.5. We were playing with a 3.0 DMG for a couple of years and old DR rules were from that DMG.
    Wow this changes everything, all these years I knew it was too weird for magic weapons to overcome all those ( as i read in 3.0 dmg)..haha..

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    sorry for this triple post but I need to check if 1 more thing was changed..

    In 3.5 can creatures with natural weapons still overcome their own damage reduction. (Does a werewolf attacking a werewolf overcome his DR/silver ?)

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirror View Post
    sorry for this triple post but I need to check if 1 more thing was changed..

    In 3.5 can creatures with natural weapons still overcome their own damage reduction. (Does a werewolf attacking a werewolf overcome his DR/silver ?)
    No. A werewolf's attacks are reduced in damage from the Damage Reduction of the other werewolf's.
    Only creatures with Damage Reduction magic or epic can hurt themselves or another creature of their own kind without having their damage being affected, because they get magic or epic strikes. A dragon or a gargoyle with their damage reduction x/magic have magic strike for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction magic, and the tarrasque with its damage reduction x/epic has epic strike for the same purpose of overcoming any such damage reduction.

    A Solar has DR 15/epic and evil. It's natural weapons and all weapons it wields are considered to be both good-aligned and epic for the purpose of overcoming DR. Because its attacks are not evil-aligned, it cannot overcome its own DR (it would therefore need some unholy weapon to hurt itself).

    A Pit Fiend has DR 15/good and silver. It's natural weapons and all weapons it wields are considered tobe both evil and lawful for the purpose of overcoming DR. Because its attacks are neither good or somehow made of silver, it cannot overcome its own DR.

    A pit fiend and a solar's normal physical attacks are reduced in potency against each another, because the solar needs a silvered weapon, whereas the pit fiend doesn't have epic strike against the solar's DR.

    A Balor has DR 10/cold iron and good. It's natural weapons and all weapons it wields are evil and lawful-aligned for the purpose of overcoming DR. In addition to that, the manufactered weapons a Balor normally wields are a +1 sword and a +1 whip, which are both magical, and therefore can in addition also overcome DR x/magic.

    In a free for all between the Balor, the Pit Fiend and the Solar, each of their physical attacks are reduced by DR. Then again, DR range is either 5, 10, or 15, and these three have the power attack feat.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Oh, this clears everything up. Thanks for your help :)

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaEmil View Post
    A Solar has DR 15/epic and evil. It's natural weapons and all weapons it wields are considered to be both good-aligned and epic for the purpose of overcoming DR. Because its attacks are not evil-aligned, it cannot overcome its own DR (it would therefore need some unholy weapon to hurt itself).

    A Pit Fiend has DR 15/good and silver. It's natural weapons and all weapons it wields are considered tobe both evil and lawful for the purpose of overcoming DR. Because its attacks are neither good or somehow made of silver, it cannot overcome its own DR.

    A pit fiend and a solar's normal physical attacks are reduced in potency against each another, because the solar needs a silvered weapon, whereas the pit fiend doesn't have epic strike against the solar's DR.

    A Balor has DR 10/cold iron and good. It's natural weapons and all weapons it wields are evil and lawful-aligned for the purpose of overcoming DR. In addition to that, the manufactered weapons a Balor normally wields are a +1 sword and a +1 whip, which are both magical, and therefore can in addition also overcome DR x/magic.
    A few minor corrections:

    It is because of the Solar's (Good) creature subtype that its attacks overcome DR n/Good, not because of its own damage reduction. They are entirely unrelated effects.

    Similarly, the Balor and Pit Fiend's (Evil) subtype allows them do bypass the aligned DR of celestials. They can do this with their natural attacks as well as any weapon they decide to wield.

    It works the same way with the (Law) and (Chaos) subtypes and bypassing DR n/Chaos and DR n/Law. These are properties of the alignment subtypes themselves, not any DR the creature may also possess.

    Delta is correct about the rest of it.
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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    3. A longsword +1 will not bypass DR 5/bludgeoning. Only a bludgeoning weapon would bypass that specific kind of DR. The sword still has its normal effect, but so does the DR (overall damage will be 1d8 +1 (magic) -5 (DR)).
    The bonus damage from the +1 is actually the same type as the weapon normally deals. A longsword +1 has a +1 enhancment bonus to damage, it does not do +1 magic damage. It does 1d8+1 slashing damage. In your example, you would need to roll a 5 or more to do any damage (6-5=1), assuming no other sources of damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    6. Spells that deal energy damage always ignore DR (but they may be affected by energy resistance). Spells that deal physical damage can be affected by DR, but depending on the specific kind of damage, they may be able to bypass the DR. A spell that deals slashing damage will bypass DR 5/slashing, and a spell that deals damage as if it were a lawful weapon will bypass DR 5/law.
    No, spells are never subject to DR, even if they do "physical" damage, unless they explicitly say otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction
    The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.
    Compare to the splinterbolt spell in the Spell Compendium, which explicitly says DR applies against the peircing damage it deals.

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    On a related note, I think I read somewhere, but cant remember where, that a +5 weapon overcomes n/adamantite a +4 weapon overcomes n/cold iron and +3 overcomes n/mithral... Am I completely mistaken, or is it some kind of homebrew ive read?
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    sounds like homebrew

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Definitely homebrew. I think though a +6 weapon or greater overcomes DR/epic.
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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketiara View Post
    On a related note, I think I read somewhere, but cant remember where, that a +5 weapon overcomes n/adamantite a +4 weapon overcomes n/cold iron and +3 overcomes n/mithral... Am I completely mistaken, or is it some kind of homebrew ive read?
    Either homebrew, or it might be Pathfinder.

    I don't remember anything having DR/Mithral, though. Just Mithral being able to overcome DR/Silver.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketiara View Post
    On a related note, I think I read somewhere, but cant remember where, that a +5 weapon overcomes n/adamantite a +4 weapon overcomes n/cold iron and +3 overcomes n/mithral... Am I completely mistaken, or is it some kind of homebrew ive read?

    Pathfinder has something similar.

    +5 overcomes alignment-based DR
    +4 overcomes adamantine DR
    +3 overcomes cold iron/silver DR

    In 3.0 D&D, DR had a hierarchy. Any magic weapon (even just a +1 weapon) would overcome any material-based DR.
    Last edited by Jeraa; 2012-11-18 at 02:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirror View Post
    Thank you for this fast answer!
    But this really puts me in an awkward spot. I was pretty sure those kinds of magic weapons overcome those DR, I don't know what led me to believe that, something I read, or was it another thing we house ruled 10 years ago. Was this maybe a rule in 3.0 ??
    Quote Originally Posted by Ketiara View Post
    On a related note, I think I read somewhere, but cant remember where, that a +5 weapon overcomes n/adamantite a +4 weapon overcomes n/cold iron and +3 overcomes n/mithral... Am I completely mistaken, or is it some kind of homebrew ive read?
    This was somewhat how Damage Reduction worked in 3.0e. Any magical weapon automatically overcame the silver/mithral/special material DR. (p.74 DMG 3.0) Most DR was either a special material or a magical bonus, with magical bonuses or higher ignoring it. DR/-, like the Barbarian's ability, was not overcome by any weapon.
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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicerious View Post
    The bonus damage from the +1 is actually the same type as the weapon normally deals. A longsword +1 has a +1 enhancment bonus to damage, it does not do +1 magic damage. It does 1d8+1 slashing damage. In your example, you would need to roll a 5 or more to do any damage (6-5=1), assuming no other sources of damage.

    I was referring to the source of the damage in those brackets, not the damage type.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirror View Post
    Thank you for this fast answer!
    But this really puts me in an awkward spot. I was pretty sure those kinds of magic weapons overcome those DR, I don't know what led me to believe that, something I read, or was it another thing we house ruled 10 years ago. Was this maybe a rule in 3.0 ??
    Pathfinder. As said before, normal enhancements bypass materials and alignments. /bludgeoning-piercing-slashing remain though.

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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketiara View Post
    On a related note, I think I read somewhere, but cant remember where, that a +5 weapon overcomes n/adamantite a +4 weapon overcomes n/cold iron and +3 overcomes n/mithral... Am I completely mistaken, or is it some kind of homebrew ive read?
    Perhaps you're remembering a conversion guide for some older monsters in reverse?

    A number of creatures that were printed in 3.0 books had DR #/+X, in which a enhancement bonus equal to or greater than X would overcome it. When these creatures were updated (via an update booklet that could be downloaded from the WotC website) the +X was replaced by magic, an alignment, or a special material.

    Perhaps you saw one of these update booklets and you're mis-remembering?
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    Default Re: Damage reduction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeraa View Post
    Pathfinder has something similar.

    +5 overcomes alignment-based DR
    +4 overcomes adamantine DR
    +3 overcomes cold iron/silver DR

    In 3.0 D&D, DR had a hierarchy. Any magic weapon (even just a +1 weapon) would overcome any material-based DR.
    It must have been this ^ I stumbled across in a forum conversation or something. Thanks for clearing that up ;)
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