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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    tongue Diviner: To find or to brew

    Howdy guys.
    From the title you've probably already surmised this topic regards the Divination school. Now I know what you're thinking! "Just take divination a wizard specialization and be done."

    No Sir!
    For I find that, for diviners in particular, power lies in breadth, repeated spells, and versatility. Now, we find the combination of these not in the wizard or the sorcerer by default, but there is a category of classes we can turn to: The Spontaneous Specialists.

    Now, as far as I know, these classes only exist for Illusion, enchantment, evocation and necromancy (Beguiler, warmage, dread necromancer - respectively). They feature a spontaneous caster with a solid broad spell list, with the limitation that they can cast no spells from other schools.

    Now, in my search to find a similar class for divination, I've returned with empty hands. My question is as follows:
    Should I take the effort to brew such a class and go through the trouble of convincing a homebrew-unfriendly DM, OR is there a spectacular option I have overlooked?

    Now, before getting excited, I'd probably spend no more than 4 levels or so on this class (or alternate method), so stay calm and help me out :p

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    Axier's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Spending time to homebrew a class that would only be used for four levels is a general waste of time.

    If you take enough wizard specialist ACFs you become quite a Diviner.

    If you want a spontaneous diviner, and expect to use it for more than four levels, then it might be worth the time. Alternatively, If you have access to psionics, I would go with Clarsentience powers. Psionic seers have A LOT of various powers they can use. They are also spontaneous-ish.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    If you're in Eberron, I highly recommend the Medani Prophet prestige class. It requires half-elf and the Mark of Detection, but it's 5/5 casting progression.

    You gain the ability to drop your least dragonmark for an augury effect as an SLA, or your lesser dragonmark for a divination SLA. You can also get a "visions of the past" effect where you can ask questions about the past, and it gives you a ton of extra dragonmark uses.

    Why is this nice? Well, things like augury and divination can theoretically be pretty awesome, but they come with a material component price tag and a long casting time that discourages their use in normal situations. Now you can have five or six of each, every day, cast as a standard action with no material component. You can augure whether it's better to take the left path or the right path, or if there will be bad results if you expose the count.

    And of course none of this stops you from being a full caster and using any other spells you feel like. I personally am a fan of bard to go into it - you're required to be a half-elf anyhow, so why not take that juicy Soothing Voice ACF, and call it the voice of the prophet? And bardic knowledge can easily be reflavored to have more of a diviner feel, rather than the default "well-traveled man" flavor.

    Oh, one other big drawback - the Medani Prophet prestige class says that you may be open to random visions, at the DM's behest. This in and of itself can be annoying but potentially useful, but you are also dazed for one round after receiving the vision. I highly recommend the Mark of the Dauntless feat, to become immune to dazing. (It's a good feat for a dragonmarked character anyhow - dazing is a nasty effect. And hey, now you can pack Celerity and toss that off with impunity too! Just... be prepared to duck.)
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Hmmmm Medani Prophet looks interesting, but considering the dragonmarks it may be a bit too hardfluffed for my purposes. One to keep in mind, though.

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    Diarmuid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Would the Spontaneous Divination ACF from CChamp be applicable here?

    The errata updated it so you have to already know the appropriate spell, so your wizard would need to add a lot of Div spells to his list, but at the cost of a Wizard bonus feat (5/10/15, etc) you can now turn any memorized spell into a div spell that you know of equal or lower level.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Spontaneous Divination, from complete champion, is what you are looking for.

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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    If spontaneous divination isn't good enough, I'd still be hesitant to spend the time homebrewing a spontaneous diviner, just given how many of those other people have already put the time into.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Ooooooh that's some tasty stuff there =D

    Lessee... Spontaneous Divination.... Hmmmm, not bad, not bad at all. Wizard-restricted, but I can make that work. Earliest at 5th level? Not ideal.... But workable.

    eggs, those homebrews look lovely enough that I won't have to do it myself, if it comes to that.

    Leaving it up until I finish my character anyway :p

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    Diarmuid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Seeing that you're able to trade a class feature that equates to a limited use feat slot to get the ability, I wouldnt think it outside the realm of acceptable to let that ability be taken with a normal feat slot, and simply restrict it to something like Knowledge Arcana or Spellcraft Ranks 7. Then without crazy skill rank shenanigans you've restricted it to being taken at 5th level at the earliest.

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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    though this takes 10 levels of wizard to do (so whether it's worth it depends on your op level) it's absolutely worth mentioning for someone rolling diviner:

    1) take the spell reprieve feat (lost empires of faerun). pick a spell from your banned school. you can cast it now. needs specialist 1
    2) take item reprieve. you can now use items of that school. needs specialist 5
    3) take arcane transfiguration. your banned school is no longer banned. needs specialist 10

    you are now a specialist with none of the drawbacks of being a specialist.

    since you sought out "breadth and versatility" I figured you'd like to be made aware of this trick.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Yes, I think I figured this out now, thanks. Another related question came up, though.

    The Practiced Spellcaster feat states that it can be taken multiple times, as long as it applies to different classes.
    Now, if I take it for my main spellcaster class, and then apply to that a PrC (probably one with a caster level prereq), and apply PS to that PrC... does that mean I can apply +8 caster levels, as long as it doesn't exceed my HD?

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    Default Re: Diviner: To find or to brew

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Yes, I think I figured this out now, thanks. Another related question came up, though.

    The Practiced Spellcaster feat states that it can be taken multiple times, as long as it applies to different classes.
    Now, if I take it for my main spellcaster class, and then apply to that a PrC (probably one with a caster level prereq), and apply PS to that PrC... does that mean I can apply +8 caster levels, as long as it doesn't exceed my HD?
    If you've taken a casting prestige class out of a full-casting base class, odds are that you won't Need +8 to your caster level because your cap will be very near your HD anyway. In addition, practiced caster only augments your Caster Level, not your spells known or spells per day, so it's rather moot if you don't mean to multi-class and get by on your low level divinations.

    One use of the feat would improve your casting level, but the PrC would only be applicable for the feat's purposes if you're taking a PrC with a seperate spellcasting set-up rather than progressing your previous one (Bard into Sublime Chord, for example).

    Additionally, it seems I'm late to the party, but if PF content is allowed, I'd suggest taking a look at the Seer archetype Oracle; spontaneous divine caster, can pick up plenty of divination spells, gains extra divination spells via their mystery/archetype, and can gain class abilities that help you gather information further.

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