Understanding Appraise

[Sudain]

Appraise (Int)
Check
You can appraise common or well-known objects with a DC 12 Appraise check. Failure means that you estimate the value at 50% to 150% (2d6+3 times 10%,) of its actual value.

Appraising a rare or exotic item requires a successful check against DC 15, 20, or higher. If the check is successful, you estimate the value correctly; failure means you cannot estimate the item’s value.

A magnifying glass gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Appraise checks involving any item that is small or highly detailed, such as a gem. A merchant’s scale gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Appraise checks involving any items that are valued by weight, including anything made of precious metals.

These bonuses stack.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/appraise.htm for those that wish read the full text and figure out how to min/max this. :)

So to make sure I understand this skill, wold appraise change the buy/sell value of the item? For easy math let's assume I'm working with a Longsword (Medium) (+1 weapon, Flaming) (8315 gp), that happened to kill some important dragon or some such from a hero's time long past.

So I'd need a DC 15 check to appraise the item at all; otherwise I have no idea it's value. If I fail, I got no clue. If I succeed I roll a 2d6+3 to determine my estimation. 2+3 * 50% = 50% value, 12+3 = 15*10% = 150% value. 2*3.5) + 3 = 10 * 10 = 100% Average Value.

So if i succeed I can appraise higher or lower; but if I fail then no dice. There doesn't seem to be much incentive to use this skill at all as I'm changing the buy/sell price randomly for or against me(assuming I'm making all the checks).

HOWEVER, I don't see anything that says I have to USE the value I Appraised at.

Let's say I appraise the above sword at 120% of it's value 8315 * 1.2 = 9978. I should then be able to sell it for that much. But let's say I appraise it at 80% of it's actual worth; 8315 * .8 = 6652. If I take it to the vendor then I can choose not to tell him about my Appraisal and have him see what he thinks it's worth. Then I take the higher.

If I'm buying the sword I'd obviously want to use the lower dice if possible, while avoiding the higher.

Do I understand this correctly?

[Andreaz]

Appraise tells you how much you think it's worth.
Selling it for what you think it's worth is about persuasion and fooling the buyer|vendor.

[weckar]

I think you fail to understand what Appraise MEANS. It tells you how much something is worth. It doesn't CHANGE how much it is worth. You would usually use it to determine the value of your loot, or indeed when buying something of dubious value.

[Ardantis]

Not quite.

As stated in your post, success on exotic or rare items means that you guess the value correctly, i.e. 100%. Failure means you don't know what it's worth at all.

For common items, when you fail the check you still have a chance of guessing the value within 50% of the actual.

Success is always guessing the market value correctly, both for common and for rare or exotic items.

Note this says nothing about MAGICAL items, which require magical means of identification (I think).

I think that's the real reason people think that Appraise is less useful.

[Sudain]

If I go to sell an item I think is worth 6600gp, and the vendor is willing to pay me 8000gp for it I'm going to **** a brick and be happy about the extra gold(in character).

If I'm trying to sell him an item I think is worth 10000gp and he's only willing to give me 4000 gp when I think I should get 5000; you bet I'm going to haggle and point out the fine craftsman ship, the lore, the exquisite grip, and how balanced the handle is. If he won't give me what I think it's worth I can choose to move on.

[Sudain]

Not quite.

As stated in your post, success on exotic or rare items means that you guess the value correctly, i.e. 100%. Failure means you don't know what it's worth at all.

For common items, when you fail the check you still have a chance of guessing the value within 50% of the actual.

Success is always guessing the market value correctly, both for common and for rare or exotic items.

Note this says nothing about MAGICAL items, which require magical means of identification (I think).

I think that's the real reason people think that Appraise is less useful.

Gah... I fail at reading comprehension. Thank you.

[Andreaz]

If I go to sell an item I think is worth 6600gp, and the vendor is willing to pay me 8000gp for it I'm going to **** a brick and be happy about the extra gold(in character).

If I'm trying to sell him an item I think is worth 10000gp and he's only willing to give me 4000 gp when I think I should get 5000; you bet I'm going to haggle and point out the fine craftsman ship, the lore, the exquisite grip, and how balanced the handle is. If he won't give me what I think it's worth I can choose to move on.

Yes.
<obligatory character filler>

[Flickerdart]

Say you have a gem. You suck at Appraise, so you think it's worth 12,000gp. You take it to sell, and the seller, who will obviously be good at Appraise, appraises it at 10,000. You're not going to be able to sell it for the higher price, because the seller knows what it's worth, unless you can use some social skills to change his mind...but you could do that anyway, without having to roll Appraise in the first place.

[Sudain]

Not quite.
Note this says nothing about MAGICAL items, which require magical means of identification (I think).

I guess it also matters what your DM considers to be common. If magic-marts are everywhere then +2 longsword might not be rare. *shrug*

Say you have a gem. You suck at Appraise, so you think it's worth 12,000gp. You take it to sell, and the seller, who will obviously be good at Appraise, appraises it at 10,000. You're not going to be able to sell it for the higher price, because the seller knows what it's worth, unless you can use some social skills to change his mind...but you could do that anyway, without having to roll Appraise in the first place.

You are right; thank you.