The end of Ctrl-Alt-Del

[TheSummoner]

Are you confused about Buckley saying disgusting and vile stuff? Because now I'm confused.

Yeah... Disgusted I can see, but confused? There's nothing confusing about it, it's pretty much par the course for B^U.

[T-O-E]

Confused by what was going on in his head to make him write that. It completely baffled me why he thought that was an appropriate or relevant thing to say. I've obviously been people say awful stuff on the internet befoure, but it was a little different this time.

EDIT: Also the unsettling skeevy undertones. The mental image is disturbing.

[TheSummoner]

Ah, well that's another matter entirely. One I would reccomend avoiding for your own safety. More than one person has been driven insane trying to understand the inner-workings of that dark void.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

Could someone explain to me why they found that comment insulting or inappropriate or something? I'm not sure I understand the sudden backlash, besides the fact that it seems every action Buckley makes is subject to such. I get that commenting about rape is supposedly highly taboo but the comment itself doesn't seem to be as horrible as is implied. He seems to be saying, from my point of view, "I wonder how the developers would have handled this scene had the players played separate breasts instead of the entirety of Laura Croft."

It seems to me that people are getting insulted because rape is a sensitive topic with little regard to what exactly he's saying about it. He COULD have written the comment as to demonize rape in some way, perhaps, but it wasn't like he was encouraging the scene. Just merely stating a thought about a scene the developers decided to put in a game.

I just don't understand the whiplash.

[Who What Now]

He seems to be saying, from my point of view, "I wonder how the developers would have handled this scene had the players played separate breasts instead of the entirety of Laura Croft."

Buckley is most certainly not trying to make an insightful commentary about the circumstances of rape and how videogames can, or even if they should, explore that. He was making a joke that boils down to "wouldn't it be absurd if you played Laura's boobs when she was raped? LOL!".

-EDIT-

But I don't think that Buckley making insensitive jokes on the internet has to turn us all into sad sacks of tears. We can all move past this and heal.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

Buckley is most certainly not trying to make an insightful commentary about the circumstances of rape and how videogames can, or even if they should, explore that. He was making a joke that boils down to "wouldn't it be absurd if you played Laura's boobs when she was raped? LOL!".

I wasn't saying he was making insightful commentary, that is a strawman argument. I think he was just saying 'I wonder if.' Like a random thought rather than anything.

[Who What Now]

I wasn't saying he was making insightful commentary, that is a strawman argument. I think he was just saying 'I wonder if.' Like a random thought rather than anything.

Except its not, it's a tasteless joke, and the mental gymnastics you're going through to defend it are astounding.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

Except its not, it's a tasteless joke, and the mental gymnastics you're going through to defend it are astounding.

I just don't see what everyones' problems are. My 'mental gymnastics' are no more astounding that those of the people who are attacking the strips because they happen to not like the artist.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Because making jokes about rape is not ****ing funny, especially not when you're a man who makes them with astonishing regularity.

[Kato]

What "astonishing regularity?"
While I won't say it was anything smart I'd agree with GW... partially. It's just Buckley being his stupid self. It wasn't supposed to be ean and it wasn't really mean... yeah, one should not kid about rape, but Buckley so often makes jokes in poor taste, I'm used to it by now.
I really wouldn't pay too much attention to it... that's what I usually do with stupid things. Weird random thougt. Not even a joke... That aside, while this is the first time I hear of that scene I really couldn't imagine what it would add to the game that it would need to be there.

[Traab]

What "astonishing regularity?"
While I won't say it was anything smart I'd agree with GW... partially. It's just Buckley being his stupid self. It wasn't supposed to be ean and it wasn't really mean... yeah, one should not kid about rape, but Buckley so often makes jokes in poor taste, I'm used to it by now.
I really wouldn't pay too much attention to it... that's what I usually do with stupid things. Weird random thougt. Not even a joke... That aside, while this is the first time I hear of that scene I really couldn't imagine what it would add to the game that it would need to be there.

Im pretty sure its entire purpose was to show us that this laura isnt a badass yet as our favorite big breasted heroine at her best would have casually obliterated the bad guys before anything like this happened. Or something along those lines. I just took it as a random odd thought, in somewhat poor taste. And you know what? I find it in less of a poor taste than say, the 50 bazillion miscarriage comic "spoofs" that most of the people chewing out buckley right now probably found vastly amusing.

[ThirdEmperor]

I doubt that Buckley meant to sexist or even crude. I'm fairly sure he was attempting to actually satirize the sexism of the game, make a comment on how Lara Croft is too often characterized as a set of boobs on legs, or something of that ilk.

It's just that, being Buckley, he completely and utterly failed at doing so. Nothing I've ever noticed in my occasional skim through the Ctrl-Alt-Del archives has led me to believe BUckley to be an offensive person, only a catastrophically bad webcartoonist and equally disastrous comedian.

[busterswd]

I doubt that Buckley meant to sexist or even crude. I'm fairly sure he was attempting to actually satirize the sexism of the game, make a comment on how Lara Croft is too often characterized as a set of boobs on legs, or something of that ilk.

It's just that, being Buckley, he completely and utterly failed at doing so. Nothing I've ever noticed in my occasional skim through the Ctrl-Alt-Del archives has led me to believe BUckley to be an offensive person, only a catastrophically bad webcartoonist and equally disastrous comedian.

Well, on the one hand, it doesn't matter what your intent is, it's very possible to be offensive inadvertently. For example, I found the Walking Dead

Spoiler

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treatment of rape pretty facepalm worthy. You don't just slice your assailant up in a rip roaring revenge and get over the trauma and emotional issues. The author wasn't attempting to promote, glorify, or make light of rape (just the opposite in fact), but his treatment of it really smacked of a comic book writer trying to show a victim of rape and having no clue.

Rape is such a sensitive subject that it's incredibly easy to offend anyone and everyone with the mere mention of it. Even when done well, it's uncomfortable making at best, and anyone who's less than a stellar author or writer would really do themselves a favor by staying far, far away from it.

In this particular case, though, much as I love to hate CAD, the offhand rape comment really wasn't something to be outraged over. I haven't played the game, but people are up in arms about him referencing a story element that already existed. If you want to pick up torches, run after the devs of Tomb Raider for throwing something like that into their game.

Or as it were after googling it, be annoyed at people who love publishing juicy headlines without having a clue, or people who drop classy buzzwords to promote their games.

http://www.gamesradar.com/controvers...ready-seen-it/

[TheSummoner]

The fact that they put an attempted rape as part of the game story... This I don't find offensive. I have not played the game, nor do I have any interest in doing so (for reasons unrelated to that story element), so I can't say whether or not it is handled well or not. The fact that it is a plot point in and of itself I do not find objectionable. (If handled poorly, then yeah, I can see why people would be offended. But I am not talking about the way it is handled, just the fact that it is there).

The fact that it was used fairly heavily in the marketing for the game. Now that is incredibly distasteful. That is something that people have all the right in the world to be up in arms over. That was incredibly tasteless and frankly quite stupid from their marketing department.

The fact that B^U made a joke about it is just as tasteless, insensitive, and crude, but it's pretty par the course for him. Rape is a very sensitive subject. Something that can and WILL get people up in arms when it seems like it's just being mentioned for a joke or a cheap ploy to get attention. It is definitely not a joke and B^U certainly shouldn't make light of it. You get where I'm going... The guy is a crude, tasteless pig and sadly there's nothing surprising about him making a joke that amounts to "lol, rape"

[Traab]

And once again I ask, where was this moral outrage as the entire internet rose up as one to take turns spoofing the hell out of his miscarriage comic? Or does it only count as a sensitive issue when its buckley doing it? He tried to do a serious comic on a serious issue and thousands of people turned it into a sick joke while millions sat back and laughed at it. I do know that several of the people here complaining about a joke buckley made about an attempted rape scene in a video game laughed at the various parodies/spoofs/strip slays made about a woman suffering from a miscarriage.

[Neoriceisgood]

And once again I ask, where was this moral outrage as the entire internet rose up as one to take turns spoofing the hell out of his miscarriage comic? Or does it only count as a sensitive issue when its buckley doing it? He tried to do a serious comic on a serious issue and thousands of people turned it into a sick joke while millions sat back and laughed at it. I do know that several of the people here complaining about a joke buckley made about an attempted rape scene in a video game laughed at the various parodies/spoofs/strip slays made about a woman suffering from a miscarriage.

I'm pretty sure people were making fun of Buckley's horrid handling of the miscarriage thing, more so than making fun of miscarriages.

Did you read the journal Buckley posted with that particular page? Talk about insulting.

[Traab]

I'm pretty sure people were making fun of Buckley's horrid handling of the miscarriage thing, more so than making fun of miscarriages.

Did you read the journal Buckley posted with that particular page? Talk about insulting.

All I know is, they took the image of a woman crying over her lost baby and turned it into a long list of jokes. And in the same vein, buckley took his joke from earlier about the talking boobs as co-op players and wondered how an odd thing like that would have effected the scene. So if making fun of the image of a cartoon woman crying over the loss of her baby is ok, why isnt pondering an oddity like sentient breasts in a sexual assault?

[Neoriceisgood]

All I know is, they took the image of a woman crying over her lost baby and turned it into a long list of jokes. And in the same vein, buckley took his joke from earlier about the talking boobs as co-op players and wondered how an odd thing like that would have effected the scene. So if making fun of the image of a cartoon woman crying over the loss of her baby is ok, why isnt pondering an oddity like sentient breasts in a sexual assault?

I don't know every single buckley parody comic out there, but the ones I remember didn't in any way insult anyone suffering from a miscarriage more than Buckley did in his journal post. (the cyanide and happiness one actually made the journal post part of the comic, which in turn emphasised Buckley's grossness)

Anyway, maybe you're talking about something specific I'm not aware of; but I remember msot parody comics essentially being this:

1. take the 4 panels from buckley's comic
2. replace the characters

that's it, the end.

This could be insulting/dehumanizing if it was done in an actual clear cut case of taking, say, someone who has actually suffered from this, and people making fun of that. But here's the thing:

1. Buckley used it for cheap thrills
2. Buckley's journal on it was the most insensitive and insulting thing to add to that comic.

Most of the parody comics were probably not great quality, but last time I checked it's not somehow an offense to point out that someone else is being gross/insulting.

Maybe you're talking about some specific parody comic though, I have no idea.

[Who What Now]

All I know is, they took the image of a woman crying over her lost baby and turned it into a long list of jokes. And in the same vein, buckley took his joke from earlier about the talking boobs as co-op players and wondered how an odd thing like that would have effected the scene. So if making fun of the image of a cartoon woman crying over the loss of her baby is ok, why isnt pondering an oddity like sentient breasts in a sexual assault?

All of those parodies were making fun of Buckley and how terribly he handled the entire situation, not the situation itself. They weren't saying "Haha, she lost a baby!" the were saying "Haha, B^Uckley is a hack!". That wasn't the case in the newspost, that was focusing on the act of rape itself, with talking boobs just added for wackiness.

[Nerd-o-rama]

My issue with Buckley and women (in gaming, specifically) is that his comic treats women as objects so often it's really difficult to tell when he's making a joke about the objectification of women and when he's objectifying women for the sake of a joke. It doesn't help that for CAD's entire original run, I don't think Lilah did a single thing besides "be Ethan's girlfriend".

Then again, maybe this is unfair, since CAD treats everyone as the butt of a joke or (in the original run) accessory to Ethan with no personality or goals other than their relationship to him (friend, girlfriend, rival, etc.), regardless of gender.

Anyway, this all ties back to the Loss parodies. They were so blatant and frequent that I can't in all honesty say that I think they were all specific to making fun of Buckley's writing. It is, in fact, terrible that people would make light of something that awful, even if some or even most of them were making fun of Buckley's handling of the storyline.

However, the fact that other people did so does not change the fact that Tim Buckley sat down and decided to write - autobiographically - about a terrible loss like that in the cheapest, attention-whoringest way possible in the middle of a comic that treats its characters like objects already, and then go on a self-justifying rant about it when people were rightly offended, and the fact that that is a terrible freaking thing to do all over.

[t209]

http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00067.html
Just posting it since it had to do with overpowered weapons in Tabletop games. It's a great comic since Tim is embracing tabletop games and making Player 1 as typical Munchkin.

[busterswd]

All I know is, they took the image of a woman crying over her lost baby and turned it into a long list of jokes. And in the same vein, buckley took his joke from earlier about the talking boobs as co-op players and wondered how an odd thing like that would have effected the scene. So if making fun of the image of a cartoon woman crying over the loss of her baby is ok, why isnt pondering an oddity like sentient breasts in a sexual assault?

What cheesed me off about the miscarriage wasn't the comic, but the newspost describing his thought process. Like any great/terrible internet meme, at some point you lose people who got the original context and just get the slack jawed yokels wanting to get their yuks by creating something completely stupid.



http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...-said-this.png

^ Basically sums up my feelings.

However, the fact that other people did so does not change the fact that Tim Buckley sat down and decided to write - autobiographically - about a terrible loss like that in the cheapest, attention-whoringest way possible in the middle of a comic that treats its characters like objects already, and then go on a self-justifying rant about it when people were rightly offended, and the fact that that is a terrible freaking thing to do all over.

And that.

[crayzz]

Could someone explain to me why they found that comment insulting or inappropriate or something? I'm not sure I understand the sudden backlash, besides the fact that it seems every action Buckley makes is subject to such. I get that commenting about rape is supposedly highly taboo but the comment itself doesn't seem to be as horrible as is implied. He seems to be saying, from my point of view, "I wonder how the developers would have handled this scene had the players played separate breasts instead of the entirety of Laura Croft."

Do you realize you're being condescending? Rape jokes can be done well (Jamie Kilstein's is pretty good), but Buckley's was not. The joke of his supposedly amusing idea (which is apparently what that comment is supposed to be) is the rape victim. He's making light of the victim. Given the statistics on the matter, it's in poor taste at the very least. Misogynistic (in the colloquial sense, responding with "misogyny means hatred" argument will merely get me to laugh at you) would be a better description.

[RPGuru1331]

Dang, I walked away at the terrible writing and yet another 'miscarriage' plot (I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't at least somewhat terrible at handling the issue), didn't realize he was such a complete and unfettered jerk about it.

It seems to me that people are getting insulted because rape is a sensitive topic with little regard to what exactly he's saying about it. He COULD have written the comment as to demonize rape in some way, perhaps, but it wasn't like he was encouraging the scene. Just merely stating a thought about a scene the developers decided to put in a game.

Yeah, blithely discussing rape scenes and treating them as fodder for absurdist comedy is HEELARIOUS. Nothing remotely insensitive to actual humans there, nopers.

The fact that they put an attempted rape as part of the game story... This I don't find offensive

Eh.... it's as good as, on its own, because the list of writers that can reliably pull it off, decently, is vanishingly small.

Or does it only count as a sensitive issue when its buckley doing it?

Hacks being hacks isn't a sensitive subject. I'm sure there were some legitimately terrible parodies that did the same thing, but as a rule the parodies seem to, you know, touch on the fact that Buckley's a hack.

Rape jokes can be done well (Jamie Kilstein's is pretty good)

Technically yes, but really, the only funny rape joke is one that mocks rapists, not rape victims. Which makes it fundamentally unlike what is generally called a 'rape joke'.

[Traab]

Do you realize you're being condescending? Rape jokes can be done well (Jamie Kilstein's is pretty good), but Buckley's was not. The joke of his supposedly amusing idea (which is apparently what that comment is supposed to be) is the rape victim. He's making light of the victim. Given the statistics on the matter, it's in poor taste at the very least. Misogynistic (in the colloquial sense, responding with "misogyny means hatred" argument will merely get me to laugh at you) would be a better description.

Well, for one thing, its hard to sympathize with a cartoon character. For another, she doesnt get raped, she gets assaulted but not raped. Still terrible, but I think extra emphasis is being added on to an act that doesnt actually happen for added impact. For a third, when he made that comment, you know what popped into MY head first? Not, "Oh he made a joke about a character that got assaulted, lets get him!" Instead it was, "Oh dear lord, now im picturing the doa beach volleyball comic where one girls boob tore itself off and flew for freedom." All sorts of random chatter popped into my head. "Oh dear lord, joey! You go this way, ill go that way! Maybe we can escape!" "Uuurgh! Hwagh!" Oh crud, I forgot, im still attached."

[RPGuru1331]

Well, for one thing, its hard to sympathize with a cartoon character.

Because it doesn't happen to real people? Because these fools weren't trivializing what happens to real people? And Buckley wasn't adding to that?

For another, she doesnt get raped, she gets assaulted but not raped. Still terrible, but I think extra emphasis is being added on to an act that doesnt actually happen for added impact.

*Facepalm*
And this is supposed to help because?

[Traab]

Because it doesn't happen to real people? Because these fools weren't trivializing what happens to real people? And Buckley wasn't adding to that?


*Facepalm*
And this is supposed to help because?

For the exact reason I wrote down? Real people get attacked and beaten all the time in the real world too. Does that mean any comic with person on person violence is automatically trivializing that fact? The laura croft scene isnt done to trivialize rape or sexual assault, and buckleys comment about an in game scene is not either. I just think some of you people are determined to be offended or annoyed by anything buckley does. And if there isnt a valid reason, you will make one up. Whatever, im done arguing about this, its a stupid thing to argue about in the first place for so many reasons and its clear that im not getting through, so why wear out my fingers typing?

[Who What Now]

Well, for one thing, its hard to sympathize with a cartoon character.

No it isn't, if it were there wouldn't be any point to cartoons or video games even having a story. The ability to empathize with even hypothetical scenarios is part of being an emotionally well-rounded individual, and if you see rape and just go "Eh, whatever." just because it's a cartoon you might have some very deep problems.

For another, she doesnt get raped, she gets assaulted but not raped.

Ah, so now it's ok because it was only attempted rape. No harm, no foul, right?

For a third, when he made that comment, you know what popped into MY head first? Not, "Oh he made a joke about a character that got assaulted, lets get him!" Instead it was, "Oh dear lord, now im picturing the doa beach volleyball comic where one girls boob tore itself off and flew for freedom."

So you thought of another comic where Buckley just views women as things to have breasts attatched to. You are really not making a good case for yourself here.

All sorts of random chatter popped into my head. "Oh dear lord, joey! You go this way, ill go that way! Maybe we can escape!" "Uuurgh! Hwagh!" Oh crud, I forgot, im still attached."

Fantasizing about playing a breast while a woman is raped assaulted is pretty messed up.

The laura croft scene isnt done to trivialize rape or sexual assault, and buckleys comment about an in game scene is not either.

Buckley's comment absolutely was meant to trivialize rape and sexual assault, by turning it into a literal game to play.

[Fallbot]

For the exact reason I wrote down? Real people get attacked and beaten all the time in the real world too. Does that mean any comic with person on person violence is automatically trivializing that fact? The laura croft scene isnt done to trivialize rape or sexual assault, and buckleys comment about an in game scene is not either. I just think some of you people are determined to be offended or annoyed by anything buckley does. And if there isnt a valid reason, you will make one up. Whatever, im done arguing about this, its a stupid thing to argue about in the first place for so many reasons and its clear that im not getting through, so why wear out my fingers typing?

There is a culture of shame and victim blaming surrounding rape that doesn't apply to other kinds of crime, so trivializing it with wacky comedy is far more of an issue than wacky comedic violence.

[RPGuru1331]

The laura croft scene isnt done to trivialize rape or sexual assault, and buckleys comment about an in game scene is not either.

Using it to dial-in tragedy is trivializing it - I have 0 cares to give what you 'intended' to do.

Buckley's comment... if it wasn't intended to trivialize it and turn it into a vehicle about omg so wacky, well, he sucks at talking, but it's more likely he did indeed intend to turn the event into a vehicle for 'omg so wacky'.

Does that mean any comic with person on person violence is automatically trivializing that fact?

Considering that it's primarily violence against women that's treated as nothing serious...

I just think some of you people are determined to be offended or annoyed by anything buckley does

You caught me, I've had less than 0 interest in the dude for years as part of my master plan. Get over the dude; it's entirely possible for him to be stupid and offend random people even if you don't understand what's so bad.

so why wear out my fingers typing?

Because how can treating rape as no big thing possibly be bad, bro?