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    Default Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Daring Weaponeer
    Original link with more information if necessary.

    Hit Die: d8

    Starting Gold: 3d4x10 (75gp)

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Features
    1|+1|+0|+2|+0|Find the Weak Spot 25%, Specialized Training
    2|+2|+0|+3|+0|Fearless
    3|+3|+1|+3|+1|Find the Weak Spot 50%
    4|+4|+1|+4|+1|Graceful Fighter (Damage)
    5|+5|+1|+4|+1|
    6|+6/+1|+2|+5|+2|Find the Weak Spot 75%
    7|+7/+2|+2|+5|+2|Adaptive Fighter +2
    8|+8/+3|+2|+6|+2|Graceful Fighter (Armor)
    9|+9/+4|+3|+6|+3|Find the Weak Spot 100%
    10|+10/+5|+3|+7|+3|Rapid Strike 1
    11|+11/+6/+1|+3|+7|+3|Evasion
    12|+12/+7/+2|+4|+8|+4|
    13|+13/+8/+3|+4|+8|+4|
    14|+14/+9/+4|+4|+9|+4|Adaptive Fighter +4
    15|+15/+10/+5|+5|+9|+5|
    16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+10|+5|
    17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|Freedom of Movement
    18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+6|
    19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+6|
    20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+6|Rapid Strike 2[/table]

    Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, 4 at 1st level)
    Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Rope (Dex).

    Class Features

    All of the following are class features of the daring weaponeer.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
    A daring weaponeer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Daring weaponeers are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

    Find the Weak Spot (Ex):
    At 1st level, a daring weaponeer has a 25% chance per attack with his specialized weapon to ignore damage reduction. This chance improves to 50% at 3rd level, 75% at 6th level, and 100% at 9th level.

    Specialized Training (Ex):
    At 1st level, a daring weaponeer must choose a light weapon to specialize with over the course of his adventuring career (he may not change this choice later on). He gains the weapon focus feat for that weapon, is treated as having the weapon finesse feat for that weapon as long as he wears no heavier than light armor, and is treated as a fighter with level equal to his class level for the purpose of taking feats related to that weapon.

    Fearless (Ex):

    At 2nd level, a daring weaponeer becomes immune to fear effects.

    Graceful Fighter (Ex):
    At 4th level, while using his specialized weapon and wearing no heavier than light armor, a daring weaponeer may add his dexterity bonus to damage rolls. At 8th level, the daring weaponeer ignores the maximum dexterity bonus for light armor that he wears.

    Adaptive Fighter (Ex):
    At 7th level, a daring weaponeer can deal uninhibited damage against even creatures and objects against which his specialized weapon would not work as effectively by virtue of mundane aspects of their form (such as swarms and oozes with a piercing weapon or rope with a bludgeoning weapon but not incorporeal creatures). Furthermore, when attacking a target with natural or worn armor while using his specialized weapon he adds a +2 on his attack roll. At 14th level, this bonus to attack rolls against natural or worn armor increases to +4.

    Rapid Strike (Ex):
    At 10th level, a daring weaponeer gains a single extra attack in a round at his highest bonus when making a full attack with his specialized weapon while wearing no heavier than light armor. At 20th level, he gains another extra attack in a round with his specialized weapon using the same rules as the first one granted by this ability.

    Evasion (Ex):

    At 11th level, a daring weaponeer can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the daring weaponeer is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless daring weaponeer does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Freedom of Movement (Ex):

    At 17th level, a daring weaponeer gains the benefits that would be provided by a freedom of movement spell.

    ===

    So, there it is.

    EDIT: Where the word weaponeer comes from...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Ninjak is the enforcer of the mysterious Weaponeer organization and the world's foremost espionage expert. Ninjak uses his expertise in martial arts, demolition, information acquisition and others skills, a keen intellect and an ability to prepare for any outcome in a given situation. He wears a kevlar-armored bodysuit that can change colour.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2012-12-08 at 10:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    So, let me ask a question:

    What makes me want to take levels in this class instead of Fighter, Barbarian, Monk, Rogue or a similar non-ToB Melee guy?

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    So, let me ask a question:

    What makes me want to take levels in this class instead of Fighter, Barbarian, Monk, Rogue or a similar non-ToB Melee guy?
    If you want to be a Dex fighter without multiclassing and PrCs, this is the way to do it.
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    This is pretty damn awful.

    I can build a better dex based warrior with a Fighter 20, which says something for how weak this is.

    At least give them more class features.

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    This is pretty damn awful.

    I can build a better dex based warrior with a Fighter 20, which says something for how weak this is.

    At least give them more class features.
    This sums up my opinion and a comment I would have made next, but I'd have been more polite about it.

    But Amechra does bring up a good point: If you can make a similar or better build with a single-classed Fighter, then your class hasn't earned it's right to be a class.
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2012-12-07 at 03:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    This is pretty damn awful.

    I can build a better dex based warrior with a Fighter 20, which says something for how weak this is.

    At least give them more class features.
    Where are you getting Dex to damage from and how are you planning on overcoming DR?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woland View Post
    Honestly, some lawyer somewhere is probably having an orgasm and he doesn't know why."
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Where are you getting Dex to damage from and how are you planning on overcoming DR?
    A Transmuting, Fey-craft weapon.

    No class feature or feat investment required.

    Edit: Sorry, that's Dex to Hit.

    Three feats can get you it with the Shadow Blade Feat. Three feats is still a better investment than 9 levels.
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2012-12-07 at 03:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    A Transmuting, Fey-craft weapon.

    No class feature or feat investment required.
    Fey craft is to hit, not to damage. Transmuting does not bypass all damage reductions (many, but not all).

    4 levels, 9 is for the DR bypass.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2012-12-07 at 03:56 PM.
    Character: Hex (HexOR)
    Quote Originally Posted by Woland View Post
    Honestly, some lawyer somewhere is probably having an orgasm and he doesn't know why."
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Fey craft is to hit, not to damage. Transmuting does not bypass all damage reductions (many, but not all).
    Ninja-editted my post ~one minute prior.

    Edit: Nine levels is required to mimic what a Fighter with 3 feats and an amount of gold can do.

    And Transmuting overcomes all forms of DR.
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2012-12-07 at 03:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Ninja-editted my post ~one minute prior.

    Edit: Nine levels is required to mimic what a Fighter with 3 feats and an amount of gold can do.

    And Transmuting overcomes all forms of DR.
    Hm, I guess it does but meh. I think this class seems good enough. Also fighters do not get extra attacks and putting points towards that enhancement bonus on a weapon precludes other possible enhancement bonuses.
    Character: Hex (HexOR)
    Quote Originally Posted by Woland View Post
    Honestly, some lawyer somewhere is probably having an orgasm and he doesn't know why."
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Hm, I guess it does but meh. I think this class seems good enough. Also fighters do not get extra attacks and putting points towards that enhancement bonus on a weapon precludes other possible enhancement bonuses.
    It's good as an NPC class, I'll say that.

    But there are two issues with your further statement:

    • The Haste spell or an item that casts it X/day and the TWF lines, among other things, are incredibly cheaper than 10 or 20 levels in a single class.
    • Gold and Weapons are a far more common and approaching unlimited resource than class levels.

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    If you ask me, this seems like a great concept for a 5-level PrC.
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Hit-and-Run Fighter (everyone calls it Drow Fighter. It does not require you to be a Drow, people; it is an ACF, not a Substitution Level) gives me +2 Initiative,, Dex to damage against flat-footed creatures as a competence bonus (on top of Strength to damage). I get all that at 1st level.


    Getting more attacks is kinda trivial.

    Piercing DR? Get a nice weapon. Seriously, spend some gold on that sucker.

    My apologies for being blunt, but I feel that I have to be as straight as possible when I say the following:

    The class is bad; it gets, over it's entire career:
    • Dexterity to damage (I can get that with a feat/ACF easily)
    • Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, and Fighter level=HD. For one weapon.
    • Ignore all DR.
    • Ignore ACP in light armor.
    • 2 extra attacks.
    • +4 to hit vs. enemies with natural armor or an armor bonus from actual armor.
    • The ability to deal weapon damage to whatever they damn well feel like.


    If you were building a Martial Adept, you could grab stuff that duplicate this guy's entire schtick without much trouble; hell, when magic items can give the entire benefit of your class, you need to rework it.

    Also, I'd suggest that you find someone that you can PM about better wordings for class features; it took me two read-throughs to fully parse Adaptive Fighter, and a proofreading bud would help you with that.

    Really, I would suggest looking around other homebrew, finding stuff you like, and then figuring out what you like about them. Then, extend that to anything that you make.

    Because ask yourself: How many levels would you take in this class?

    Because I might take it to level 4, if I really needed another ability to stack Dex onto my attacks.

    I mean, the next interesting ability after level 4 is at level 7, meaning that you've pretty much lost out on 4 levels of good stuff to get some really, really mediocre payback.

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    This class lacks enough punch it make it Viable.

    It has too many dead levels and it's bonuses aren't great for the level investment.

    I'd suggest filling in those dead levels, maybe a couple of bonus feats.

    How about an ability that improves Crit Range for the choses weapon by one, stackable with Keen or Improved Critical.

    How about a few other bonuses, ie no penalties for using a light weapon for maneuvers? Maybe even a free disarm attempt on a hit, our auto disarm on a Natural 20?

    These would help give a bit more substance to the class. It probably needs a bit more as well.

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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Honestly, I'd take the best five or seven abilities, and make this a five-level PrC. Give it a base reflex save requirement, maybe BAB and Dexterity, and let people spend five levels getting all the goodies, then move on to something else. Bonus points if it advances maneuvers at least 3/5 or so.

    Also....there's almost no reason to use a light weapon. They're easier to disarm, worse at tripping/sundering/disarming/etc, and you give up 1.5 str bonuses and 2:1 returns on Power Attack for two-handed weapons. I'd suggest either giving this class some of those goodies, or something else to compensate for that opportunity cost.

    Oh, and a fear immunity seems thematically appropriate, if they're so "daring".
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyntonian View Post
    Oh, and a fear immunity seems thematically appropriate, if they're so "daring".
    Ok, added fearless. Also added evasion and freedom of movement.

    This class is meant to fix the problems a dex fighter has without needing to resort to items, feats, prc, and multiclassing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woland View Post
    Honestly, some lawyer somewhere is probably having an orgasm and he doesn't know why."
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    Default Re: Daring Weaponeer [3.5 Base Class][PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    This class is meant to fix the problems a dex fighter has without needing to resort to items, feats, prc, and multiclassing.

    I just want to make sure that you understand that spending resources on items and feats is incredibly more attractive than class levels. So if you plan for your class to address these things in the Dex Fighter concept, then they need to be significantly better than the feat and item options open to a single classed Fighter.

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