MS Paint Adventures 7: At the Price of Oblivion

[Jayngfet]

For the record by that time the character in the comic in question had not even been introduced yet.

Irrelevant, simply because this is a character who, despite not being formally introduced, has had their actions broadcast and narrated and explained and demonstrated. Just because now she has an actual speaking part there's nothing she can do that's unexpected short of a radical change that'd be difficult to predict.

And for clarification, when did i say tyranny is okay? I said that from a specific point of veiw her actions can make sense given the circumstances.

Jegus chris guy I’m not saying these are awesome sunshine happy people who fart flowers and rainbows, I’m saying i still like them as characters DESPITE the fact that they do all of these horrible things.

why? because it is fiction and they are well written characters, sometimes with quirks or small things about them i find cute that add a fun contrast to their different personalities.

You defended the Empress's actions from a moral standpoint. Not in that she was an interesting character, but from the idea that she wasn't a fully loathsome monster. You did this by referencing Eugenics by name and tried to use a cop out instead of explanation in the next post. This was never about you finding her entertaining as an antagonist or well written. This was about you headcannoning her from a vile tyrant into a Jane's damned mother figure in a way that was, at best, tactless and offensive on a level just below dead baby jokes.

Sometimes people just like the villains, this doesn't make them horrible.

*casually points to all the Loki, Scar, Sepherph, and Discord fans*

You aren't coming under fire for liking a villain. You're under fire for defending one, and one who's kill list and atrocity count is higher than all the others on that list combined. Or at least I assume so since I have no idea what a Sepherph actually is.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Sephiroth, I believe.

Does my suggesting that the Condensce may be more than just a crazy genocidal woman of ill repute count as defending her?

[Jayngfet]

Sephiroth, I believe.

Does my suggesting that the Condensce may be more than just a crazy genocidal woman of ill repute count as defending her?

Your statements didn't exactly imply much either way. The idea isn't exactly impossible or unworkable on it's own.

In any case, if she's willing to deal it'd probably only be under the pretense that she gains something. She doesn't strike me as terribly altruistic.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Oh, definitely not.

I'm mostly just suggesting that she too would be interested in having LE go all up and dead.

She might have a soft spot for Jane, because Hussie has a habit of characterizing his villains by showing us other characters, and Meenah, while still kind of terrible, was willing and able to take a shine to people.

Doesn't stop that it's, you know, Sea Hitler and her Water Apocalypse.

[Scowling Dragon]

Snore. You know Hussie if you acted as expected for a bit I would be honestly surprised!

By this point I HAVE no expectations or reasonable assumptions of whatever random action will forward the random story. Randomly. I just watch the funny things happen onscreen.

Anyway: Yeah, Redfir, put more thoughts into what your saying and into your opinions.

You tend to think of a viewpoint, and then attach proof, even if flimsy, to the viewpoint. Rather then the other way around.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Snore. You know Hussie if you acted as expected for a bit I would be honestly surprised!

By this point I HAVE no expectations or reasonable assumptions of whatever random action will forward the random story. Randomly. I just watch the funny things happen onscreen.

I'm pretty sure that's how most Homestuck fans enjoy it. We don't see it as high literature. We see it as "Holy crap, what stuff is Hussie going to throw at us now?"

...that said, this was actually foreshadowed and kind of makes sense...

[Scowling Dragon]

I'm pretty sure that's how most Homestuck fans enjoy it. We don't see it as high literature. We see it as "Holy crap, what stuff is Hussie going to throw at us now?"

...that said, this was actually foreshadowed and kind of makes sense...

I donno. I shouldn't hate on something for not being what I want it to be, yet I just weep for what it could be considering the artist at the helm.

This could be so much more. But again, I shouldn't hate fireworks for not being Casablanka.

[Cavelcade]

Dragon, just because you don't/can't appreciate it for what it is, stop denegrading it and making it seem like you're Mr. Smartpants, from Smartsville, Smartland. Just because you get nothing out of it doesn't mean no-one else can, and the value of art is purely what you get from it.

[Scowling Dragon]

Oh because I dislike something therefore im automatically a smartass? Because I say I dislike something (And I am not repeating myself this time) Im instantly annoying you?

Oh and I LOVE the way you phrase it:

just because you don't/can't appreciate it for what it is

Like its a MUST love. Otherwise my opinion is wrong

Its the same "This thread is only for mindless praise" argument. Whats up with all these threads being against criticism.

Especially when I repeatedly state that those where my subjective opinions!

[Cavelcade]

I shouldn't hate on something for not being what I want it to be, yet I just weep for what it could be considering the artist at the helm.

This denegrates the work completely, as it heavily implies, if not outright states, that it is falling short of its full potential. This makes it seem:

a) You are smart for seeing this.

b) We are dumb for not seeing this.

c) You are Mr. Smartpants, Smartsville, Smartland.

It's not that you must love it, but that your endless repetition of the same criticisms is annoying. This thread isn't for mindless praise - but it's not for mindless reptition of any form.



You say you're not repeating yourself, but it's essentially the same argument you always have: "This is what I think the author should try and do, they are not doing it; the work is Bad Art".

The problem with this is that you are objectively defining what makes something good and bad - a few platitudes about "this is just my opinion!!" doesn't change the fact that your opinion is that it is falling short of some grand vision, which is an objective comparison. My point is that the author is not aiming for your vision and is accomplishing something wholly different.

Also, for the record, if you backed up your opinions more, and argued with a comprehensive view of the text of Homestuck, it would be much more interesting than just "It is bad and I don't like it". I don't dislike that style of argumentation, and it does lead to more and less valid readings of Homestuck, and, concordonatly, vis a vis, heretofore (sorry I was just getting smug and had make fun of myself) more and less valid opinions/readings/whatever term you want.

I've made my points on my reading of Homestuck as satire before, and because of a busy schedule, I have yet to reread it to further elaborate on them, but I still they hold up pretty well and take account of most of the elements of the story. I don't think your arguments really examine it from this point of view.

Not to mention the fact that it is also a puzzle story, for us to try and find out what's going on and guess forthcoming events. They rarely come out of nowhere, though they are pretty lateral.

[Draconi Redfir]

*Snip*

Yeah. That's nice.

I never said i expected her to act like a mother figure towards jane or the trolls.


I said it'd be nice cool or interesting.

I still like her as a character.

I still think from a non-moraly-biased point of view her leadership had some sort of merit.


You can stop now.

[Cavelcade]

I still think from a non-moraly-biased point of view her leadership had some sort of merit.

Howso, out of curiosity, given that it's been pointed out that her genetic programming removed the most powerful and deadly?

[Draconi Redfir]

Howso, out of curiosity, given that it's been pointed out that her genetic programming removed the most powerful and deadly?

Most likely thought i can think of right now is that there is a difference between the most powerful and deadly trolls, and the most powerful and deadly trolls that she could control. As Greenbloods, Limebloods aren't entirely lowbloods, being somewhere on the middle of the spectrum. there would likely be far fewer trolls who would look down on them as much as say, yellowbloods, redbloods and brownbloods. in addition, the rustbloods would look up to them, if you consider the fact that we know lowbloods can and generally do have high psionic abilities as well, it might be possible for a limeblood who possesses a powerful psionic ability may attempt to lead a psionic uprising, much smiler to the sinless but with more flying objects.


further if we assume a limeblood could potentially be more powerful then the Wiioniic then you've most likely got a troll who can fling entire buildings and spaceships around, and as such would possibly be able to get to the Empress' throne room all on their own. If even ONE of these trolls went rouge you would have a huge problem on your hands, they could bring the entire empire to it's knees, and by this i mean not only the empress, but every troll on Alternia as well, possibly dooming the entire species to extinction in what one could basically sum up as a god having a temper tantrum.

Please note that i am not saying "this is what WOULD" happen, i am saying "this is what i BELIEVE would happen", as you asked me specifically how removing the most psionically powerful could be beneficial.


To sum it all up, Limebloods are Midbloods, they don't have the everlasting fear of being culled or put to use cleaning out the inside of a septic tank as lowbloods do, without this fear, they could potentially say "no" to their superiors. The fact that they could say no combined with the fact that many of them had very powerful psionics, could potentially bring the entire empire slash species to it's knees with just ONE of these trolls. To prevent this and her authority being usurped or challenged from happening, the Empress had the limebloods wiped out, an act which likely had the added bonus of throwing a "this is what could happen to you" to the other psionic lowbloods and keeping them in line.


And THIS is just a headcanon (and as such most likely noncanon entirely much akin to the idea of Condy acting motherly or friendly to jane or the trolls, hence the word headcanon) but it's possible all this occurred after an uprising of a smiler nature, it was merely never brought up to us the readers as it was entirely irrelevant to the story.

[memnarch]

...
...that said, this was actually foreshadowed and kind of makes sense...

Really? Where? If you're going with the easter egg things from the early flashes, I don't think those count.

[Androgeus]

Really? Where? If you're going with the easter egg things from the early flashes, I don't think those count.

I agree that the easter eggs shouldn't count as foreshadowing, but I think the artwork that Calliope sends Roxy does (artwork, persterlog that it is from)

[Zejety]

I agree that the easter eggs shouldn't count as foreshadowing, but I think the artwork that Calliope sends Roxy does (artwork, persterlog that it is from)

Haha, I totally forgot about that.
Thanks for the reminder! :D

[Lord Raziere]

ooh, I think some real fun is about to begin now. this trickster mode just screams "CHAOS IS GONNA BE CAUSED!"

I mean look at what its already done to

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Janes planet! as a side effect of taking off!

[memnarch]

ooh, I think some real fun is about to begin now. this trickster mode just screams "CHAOS IS GONNA BE CAUSED!"

I mean look at what its already done to

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Janes planet! as a side effect of taking off!

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That explains where Jake gets the resources to make the Warhammer of Zillyhoo.

[Lateral]

ooh, I think some real fun is about to begin now. this trickster mode just screams "CHAOS IS GONNA BE CAUSED!"

I mean look at what its already done to

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Janes planet! as a side effect of taking off!

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No more so than John's windy thing did to LOWAS. Granted, this is a juju thing, not a windy thing (or lifey thing, in Crocker's case), but still. Seriously, everyone in this comic is capable of some inane shenanigans.

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That explains where Jake gets the resources to make the Warhammer of Zillyhoo.

Aye. And, one thing I must say:

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JANE. DO THE LIFEY THING.

[Zejety]

At least her mood has improved. :)

[The_Final_Stand]

Has it? She's grinning outwardly, but pay attention to the words on the screen in Engage. She doesn't seem all that sure of it.

[Draconi Redfir]

Fifty gold says the Tricksters are really insane killers who do everything with a giggle and a smile

[Shadow of the Sun]

...what.

No, wait, hang on.

I mean...

...what.

[Squark]

There is not bizarre enough profanity in my lexicon to express my bemusement/amusement.

So, insert your own choice words and add or subtract blanks as desired.

What The ____ ____ ____ ??!! (Feel free to post them here if you come up with any board safe ones you think are particularly amusing.

On a slightly salient note: I think Caliborn is in love.

[Mono Vertigo]

I'm starting to wonder if Hussie read the thread, saw the plot and characters were being taken way too seriously - again - and decided to remind everyone this is the kind of story where kids can be smothered in puppets' asses, there's a juggalo conspiracy, and and there's actually too much silliness going on for me to list just 3 key parts seriously
But that's unlikely. It's not like Hussie would update his comic solely to subvert, crush mercilessly, or mock the fans' expectations and interpretations.





Meh I don't even know what to say about the debate on Space Fish Hitler®'s plans. She's a character with understandable motivations and the great ability to move the plot forward, but she's not relatable. About nobody in this comic is relatable because everyone is ridiculously unreasonable, eccentric, or both. They really can't be put in a serious, realistic context. Their world only mimics barely ours in a superficial way. Sometimes. Very briefly.
It's like trying to put a Monty Python sketch in a realistic and serious context. You can try, but the ensuing discussion won't be very constructive. At all.

[Draconi Redfir]

... Well that was a thing...

[JadedDM]

If you haven't yet, try clicking on the moving sweets on top of the screen in the most recent update.

[Derjuin]

Meh I don't even know what to say about the debate on Space Fish Hitler®'s plans. She's a character with understandable motivations and the great ability to move the plot forward, but she's not relatable. About nobody in this comic is relatable because everyone is ridiculously unreasonable, eccentric, or both. They really can't be put in a serious, realistic context. Their world only mimics barely ours in a superficial way. Sometimes. Very briefly.
It's like trying to put a Monty Python sketch in a realistic and serious context. You can try, but the ensuing discussion won't be very constructive. At all.

Some of the characters are relatable, just not directly. You can relate to Karkat's feelings of being an angry social outcast, but not because your blood is a weird color and your alien culture would kill you over it; etc. and so forth.

This is certainly an odd and entertaining advancement of the plot. I can't really say it's a twist, because I don't really remember where the plot is heading at the moment.

[Draconi Redfir]

Personal headcanon until proven otherwise:

None of this is real. That lollypop was just nothing but pure drugs and Jane is still passed out on her porch high as all heaven.

[Shadow of the Sun]

At least she's happy now?

And if Draconi's theory is wrong, she's letting her feelings be in the open.