The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    lost in my own mind

    Default Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Turning
    Prerequisites: Must worship a deity, Knowledge (Religion) 8 Ranks, Cha 15
    Benefit: You gain the ability to turn or rebuke undead as a Cleric. You may attempt to turn undead once a day as a Cleric of your level.
    Special: If at any point you gain the ability to turn or rebuke undead as a class feature, this feat is lost. In its place you get the Extra Turning feat.
    Special: A Paladin who takes this feat may turn undead as if he were a Cleric of his level instead. At 4th level or higher, he also gains the 4 extra turning attempts as if he had gotten the Extra Turning feat.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2012-12-15 at 06:45 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Since a paladin can turn a number of times a day equal to 3 + her charisma modifier (although she does so as a cleric of three levels lower), she'd exchange the number of times per day for a gain of three levels. Depending on how high the paladin's charisma modifier is, it might not be worth taking.

    Allowing a sorcerer or wizard access to this just makes a cleric redundant or turns one into even more of a healbot. I am not fond of that.

    I'd rather see this as an alternate class feature than a feat. I've never liked taking special abilities of classes and making them into feats because it dilutes what makes the classes special.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Just two things:

    First, the Charisma requirement doesn't seem that limiting. Given the unreliability of turning effects, especially at higher levels where the undead generally have some resistance, not many low Charisma characters would want this and if they got it the feat would certainly not be overwhelming in their hands, unless possibly it were used to power a divine feat they'd otherwise not qualify for. And if someone wanted a back door into the divine feats, assuming that were possible, it should be explicit that that is what it is. This feat shouldn't allow that.

    Second, it is a good thing this feat was designated 3.5, as it should never enter play in a Pathfinder game. It could open the door to horrific abuse, as in PF the counterpart to Turn Undead is not Rebuke Undead but Command Undead. Were there a feat allowing anyone to Turn Undead (a shortlived, relatively weak ability that in PF grants a new save each round), there would logically be a feat allowing anyone to Command Undead, a very powerful effect that can last forever and permits a save only once a day.

    However, I don't have a problem with the basic concept of the feat (in 3.5). Non-cleric/paladin PCs can already drive back vampires with holy symbols. Being able to maybe drive back skeletons or ghouls once per day is nice (assuming the PC has put some roleplay into the "must be religious" requirement) but isn't going to put clerics out of business. I think clerics are undersold by anyone who thinks their turning abilities form a very significant part of the power of the class (DMM cheese excepted, of course).

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    lost in my own mind

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Well, I must admit that the driving force behind this was PrC qualifications. I love playing the Favored Soul, but all the best divine PrCs require turning undead as a prereq, so the Favored Soul is sadly banned.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    I don't believe you should turn as a Cleric of your level, level -2 seems more appropriate. A single feat shouldn't duplicate a class feature especially win its use for PrCs and feat qualifications.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    I don't believe you should turn as a Cleric of your level, level -2 seems more appropriate. A single feat shouldn't duplicate a class feature especially win its use for PrCs and feat qualifications.
    That's probably true. Also, religious devotion should probably be backed up by 8 or so ranks in Knowledge: Religion.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grelna the Blue View Post
    That's probably true. Also, religious devotion should probably be backed up by 8 or so ranks in Knowledge: Religion.
    This is also true, I'd make it 4 or 5 ranks just I case someone has to cross class it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    So if someone has this feat, and then takes a level in cleric, their turning power goes down (from level=character level to level=1)?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Turn, baby, turn! Undead inferno! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grelna the Blue View Post

    Second, it is a good thing this feat was designated 3.5, as it should never enter play in a Pathfinder game. It could open the door to horrific abuse, as in PF the counterpart to Turn Undead is not Rebuke Undead but Command Undead.
    That's incorrect. The appropriate term in Pathfinder is Channel Energy. You either harm or heal undead. Command undead is a spell. See Cleric here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric.

    However in 3.5 the cleric can rebuke OR command undead (the pathfinder cleric cannot command undead) see here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm.

    Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su)

    Any cleric, regardless of alignment, has the power to affect undead creatures by channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol (see Turn or Rebuke Undead).

    A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral cleric of a neutral deity must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good cleric or an evil cleric. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells.

    A cleric may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. A cleric with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.
    I bolded the relevant portion for you.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2012-12-16 at 03:13 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

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