The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

[skunk3]

Some I can answer quickly.

1: epic warlock feats only require certain invocations, and an epic level of spellcraft.

3: hypothetically yes. However taking slightly off color invactions is worth the epic feat.

4a: yes it’s overpriced as far as I can tell. Least invocations are rather weak.

4b: not that I’m aware of.

5: iterative attack’s, touch attacks, and reach. It’s just better.

Eldritch disciple means you’re a cleric. You can cast Divine Power and even use DMM persist on it to have full bab all day.

6a: fell fright is good

6b: iirc, fell flight is a set speed. If you have soemthing that increase speed generically, or flight speed, that would increase it.

8: the wording says each level of HFW gets 2d6 hellfire Blast. If you’re class gives more levels to it, each level gives 2d6 more.

9: Eldritch disciple onlygives caster level(which progress EB) and invocation progression. All other class features are not progressed.

1. So I do NOT need 20 actual levels of warlock then? Cool.

3. I'd rather spend my invocations on more useful things and then buy rods to give me shapes and essences. I have eldritch spear and will be taking vitriolic blast for sure, but some of the epic feats require an essence from least, lesser, greater, and dark... or shapes from all of them as well. That's a lot of taking crappy invocations that I will rarely use (if at all) just for some tasty epic feats. If I can just buy rods instead (they aren't that expensive) and invest points into spellcraft, I'd rather do that.

6a. Fell Flight is good in that it lasts all day long, but the speed / maneuverability isn't that good, although when I get Flee the Scene it will be mitigated somewhat.

6b. I am just wondering if items like Boots of Striding and Springing (which increase base land speed by 10 feet) would also increase my flight speed.

8. But if you already have 3 levels of HFW, how can you progress it another level? It just seems to me that if you have max levels in a PrC that only has a finite number of levels, you shouldn't be able to advance it beyond that. People may argue or say that I am wrong but that's just what seems right to me, even if warlocks in general aren't very powerful offensively unless you're going with glaive/claw.

9. I understand that, but here's an example: By the time I hit level 16 I will be Warlock 3 / Cleric 3 / Eldritch Disciple 10. That would put me at 13 effective Warlock levels. If I were to take another level of Warlock beyond that, what would-I gain aside from what is listed for the 4th level? (Deceive item) Would I continue to progress EB and invocations as though I were a 17th level warlock?

[skunk3]

BAB stacks with itself, so by level 20, you will always have at least one iterative, and since you're going Eldritch Disciple and Cleric, you will probably have a total of 3 attacks on a full attack.

Wait a minute... not to sound stupid here, but where should I be now then?

For example: Warlock 3 / Cleric 3 / Eldritch Disciple 4

Warlock 3 = +2 BAB

Cleric 3 = +2 BAB

ED 4 = +3 BAB

So that gives me a +7 BAB.

So when do iteratives come into play? I seem to remember reading something that said that after you hit +6 BAB, you start to get a +1 iterative. Is this true? I am confused.

[Morcleon]

Wait a minute... not to sound stupid here, but where should I be now then?

For example: Warlock 3 / Cleric 3 / Eldritch Disciple 4

Warlock 3 = +2 BAB

Cleric 3 = +2 BAB

ED 4 = +3 BAB

So that gives me a +7 BAB.

So when do iteratives come into play? I seem to remember reading something that said that after you hit +6 BAB, you start to get a +1 iterative. Is this true? I am confused.

Yes. Your BAB is +7/2, which gives you an iterative.

[Gruftzwerg]

6a. Fell Flight is good in that it lasts all day long, but the speed / maneuverability isn't that good, although when I get Flee the Scene it will be mitigated somewhat.

6b. I am just wondering if items like Boots of Striding and Springing (which increase base land speed by 10 feet) would also increase my flight speed.

8. But if you already have 3 levels of HFW, how can you progress it another level? It just seems to me that if you have max levels in a PrC that only has a finite number of levels, you shouldn't be able to advance it beyond that. People may argue or say that I am wrong but that's just what seems right to me, even if warlocks in general aren't very powerful offensively unless you're going with glaive/claw.

9. I understand that, but here's an example: By the time I hit level 16 I will be Warlock 3 / Cleric 3 / Eldritch Disciple 10. That would put me at 13 effective Warlock levels. If I were to take another level of Warlock beyond that, what would-I gain aside from what is listed for the 4th level? (Deceive item) Would I continue to progress EB and invocations as though I were a 17th level warlock?

First as friendly reminder, this is not the place to ask questions. it would be better to make your own thread for this kind of stuff ;)
Here you should only post stuff regarding the "guide itself".
__________________
6. yes, magic items that increase your "land movementspeed" increase your Fell Flight fly speed.
But.. you should be looking for movementspeed-boost that apply to all kind of movements for double-dipping (once for the land movementspeed and once for the fly speed).
Fell Fly fly speed: (base land movementspeed + landspeed/overall bonuses) + fly speed/overall bonuses.

8. imho it depends heavy on DM fiat. But people are arguing always about this so don't assume anything, just ask the DM how he sees it. There are enough debates you can google on this topic to get positions/opinions.

9. yes & yes^^ you progress warlock abilities as if you where a 4th lvl warlock and gain EB & invocation progress as 17th lvl warlock.

[skunk3]

I thought that it would be helpful for other people playing Warlocks!

[LordBlade]

The magic items section has a comment about how you can essentially get a lightsaber for 4000g. What's that about?

[BowStreetRunner]

The magic items section has a comment about how you can essentially get a lightsaber for 4000g. What's that about?

Rod of of Eldritch Power, Least with the Eldritch Glaive blast shape.

[DurionArcanis]

Ah dang, BowStreetRunner got to that before I did. But yeah, a Rod of Eldritch power contains an Eldritch shape or essence that you can apply to your Eldritch blast without taking it as a class feature. It costs 4000 to get one with Least essence or shape in it (or 2000 to craft one) and Eldritch Glaive is a Least shape from the Dragon Magic book that shapes your Eldritch blast into a glaive. For clawlocks or blastlocks who don't normally use Eldritch Glaive and want to specialize in a different path it comes in handy to have as a magic item instead of using one of your limited choices on it.

As it is essentially a small rod that conjures a blade of pure energy, it's a "lightsaber" with reach.

For added Jedi flavor, craft it yourself.

If you need the stats for it it's in Complete Mage, which you should have as a player looking to build a warlock anyways ;). Dragon Magic is a bit harder to find but that's where the Eldritch Glaive invocation is. Otherwise you can pray for knowledge from a gaming buddy (or Google lol). Pretty sure you can still buy the PDFs somewhere though.

[Troacctid]

You can purchase PDFs on DriveThruRPG. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51634

[skunk3]

Ah dang, BowStreetRunner got to that before I did. But yeah, a Rod of Eldritch power contains an Eldritch shape or essence that you can apply to your Eldritch blast without taking it as a class feature. It costs 4000 to get one with Least essence or shape in it (or 2000 to craft one) and Eldritch Glaive is a Least shape from the Dragon Magic book that shapes your Eldritch blast into a glaive. For clawlocks or blastlocks who don't normally use Eldritch Glaive and want to specialize in a different path it comes in handy to have as a magic item instead of using one of your limited choices on it.

As it is essentially a small rod that conjures a blade of pure energy, it's a "lightsaber" with reach.

For added Jedi flavor, craft it yourself.

If you need the stats for it it's in Complete Mage, which you should have as a player looking to build a warlock anyways ;). Dragon Magic is a bit harder to find but that's where the Eldritch Glaive invocation is. Otherwise you can pray for knowledge from a gaming buddy (or Google lol). Pretty sure you can still buy the PDFs somewhere though.

I don't understand how the Rod of Eldritch Power (Glaive) functions as a lightsaber. Unless I am mistaken, the road simply allows you to use Eldritch Glaive a few times per day, which brings up the question of whether or not the rod itself can be used as a weapon or if you have to hold the rod in an offhand and a weapon in your main hand to use the glaive. (edit: I read that rods can function as clubs or light maces due to their sturdy construction.) So I guess the rod would basically function as a 'lightsaber' (so to speak) with reach. It doesn't really seem that handy though unless you are built for getting into melee. Seems like any Warlock who likes to get in there and fight would likely already have Eldritch Glaive as an invocation, and any warlock who doesn't want to mix it up in melee would be better served staying back and blasting from a safe distance, or putting their UMD to use, using CC invocations, or lots of other stuff.

Of the least Rods of Eldritch Power one can buy, not too many of them are that great.
-frightful blast (meh, it's okay I guess to have one later on and situationally use it)
-hideous blow (hideous blow sucks)
-sickening blast (a pretty decent one to get)
-hammer blast (kinda pointless if you ask me, might be situationally useful once in a blue moon)
-hideous shot (this one is probably the best one to get since you can basically infuse a bow and arrow with your EB 5x/per day, whether that's your own or a party members... super useful)
-eldritch glaive (this would be okay if you suddenly found yourself surrounded by enemies, especially if you are of a level high enough to have iterative attacks, and/or are hasted or have something like a belt of battle... also anything modifying your EB modifies the glaive for the entire round until the start of your next action so you can pump out some decent damage)
-eldritch claws (anyone going for a clawlock would have this as an invocation already, and it is otherwise not that useful)

So yeah, I think that if you have the money to burn the rod could be worth spending 4k on even if you'd rarely need it, but personally I think that Hideous Shot is the best least rod you can buy. IMO.

[Troacctid]

-eldritch claws (anyone going for a clawlock would have this as an invocation already, and it is otherwise not that useful)

You can't put it in a rod. It's not a blast shape or essence.

The best one is eldritch spear because it's one that you don't need all the time, so it's not great to take as an invocation known, but there are times when you really want it (longer starting distances for an encounter, or fleeing enemies who are faster than you), so it's good to have access to it anyway.

[skunk3]

You can't put it in a rod. It's not a blast shape or essence.

The best one is eldritch spear because it's one that you don't need all the time, so it's not great to take as an invocation known, but there are times when you really want it (longer starting distances for an encounter, or fleeing enemies who are faster than you), so it's good to have access to it anyway.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Eldritch Claws were a least invocation. Guess that was some homebrew page or something. I think it should just be a least blast shape invocation rather than a feat anyway because that just makes sense to me. If Hideous Blow and Eldritch Glaive are both shapes, why not claws?

Personally I like Eldritch Spear so much that I would just take it as an invocation rather than having a rod. It's not very handy if you're in a dungeon below ground or in some confined space, but if you're out in the open air and have Fell Flight, Flee the Scene and the like you can blast from REALLY far away, which I do a lot. It becomes a bit less useful at higher levels though because in order to really get the best use out of your blasts, you're gonna want to use shapes like Eldritch Chain and whatnot so you're hitting multiple targets at a time rather than just one, and that requires you to be significantly closer. Until other blast shapes are available, Eldritch Spear is a great one to have. You can just retrain it to another least invocation when that time comes and then buy a rod and keep it in a Quiver of Elhonna or something along with your other rods and wands and stuff. That's what I plan on doing, but I won't have Eldritch Chain for a few more levels because there's other invocations that I want first.

[Troacctid]

I like eldritch spear when it allows you to attack when you otherwise wouldn't be able to get into range that turn. I don't like it for playing keep-away. I don't think there's a lot of value added by spending the combat 200 feet away rather than 60, especially if you're flying out of reach anyway.

[skunk3]

Depends on the rest of the party. I am playing in a group with a fighter, a rogue, and a sorcerer/druid. We are level 11 right now and thus far I've spent the majority of combat at range, relying on Eldritch Spear to keep me out of harm's way, especially now that I have Fell Flight. I don't carry a weapon at all. I could have a quarterstaff but meh, why bother? I am playing an Eldritch Disciple so I'm not a straight-up Warlock.

[Snowbluff]

You can't put it in a rod. It's not a blast shape or essence.

Hey, just wanted to reiterate this for everyone's benefit. It's important to remember that Eldritch Claws isn't a shape, and doesn't necessarily function as eldritch blast. Thank you!

[skunk3]

And I just wanted to reiterate that it *should be* a shape essence because why not? Why make players pay a feat tax just to take it when Hideous Blow and Eldritch Glaive are shapes? If I were DM'ing I would totally houserule this as a shape rather than a feat because it's not like Warlocks are OP anyway. If it were available in rod form, would it really be that crazy or game-breaking? It's 4,000 GP to be able to use it 5x/day, and to be decent with it you need STR (as it is not a touch attack), which is something that a lot of Warlocks don't have much of since they are one of the least attribute-dependent classes there is. CHA, DEX, and CON is what most Warlocks go for since it is what most benefits them.

[Pleh]

I don't understand how the Rod of Eldritch Power (Glaive) functions as a lightsaber. Unless I am mistaken, the road simply allows you to use Eldritch Glaive a few times per day, which brings up the question of whether or not the rod itself can be used as a weapon or if you have to hold the rod in an offhand and a weapon in your main hand to use the glaive. (edit: I read that rods can function as clubs or light maces due to their sturdy construction.) So I guess the rod would basically function as a 'lightsaber' (so to speak) with reach. It doesn't really seem that handy though unless you are built for getting into melee. Seems like any Warlock who likes to get in there and fight would likely already have Eldritch Glaive as an invocation, and any warlock who doesn't want to mix it up in melee would be better served staying back and blasting from a safe distance, or putting their UMD to use, using CC invocations, or lots of other stuff.

Eldritch Glaive is a reach melee weapon (threatens wide AoO) that targets Touch AC and deals Eldritch Blast damage (and all the ways that damage can be optimized) and allows iterative attacks. Seems pretty saber-y to me.

[skunk3]

Eldritch Glaive is a reach melee weapon (threatens wide AoO) that targets Touch AC and deals Eldritch Blast damage (and all the ways that damage can be optimized) and allows iterative attacks. Seems pretty saber-y to me.

Yeah, I just don't think of 'lightsaber' when I hear the word 'glaive' though. I think you could fluff the visual effect into anything you want but the way I imagine it in my head is more like an actual glaive. Anyway, yeah in effect it would basically be like a lightsaber, except not uber powerful. I think that to get to TRUE lightsaber territory you'd have to have something like a +10 longsword with Keen, Vorpal, Blurstrike, Defending, Deflecting, Doomstrike, Eager, Force, Warning, Spellblade, Screaming, Mighty Cleaving. :)

[Pleh]

Yeah, I just don't think of 'lightsaber' when I hear the word 'glaive' though. I think you could fluff the visual effect into anything you want but the way I imagine it in my head is more like an actual glaive. Anyway, yeah in effect it would basically be like a lightsaber, except not uber powerful. I think that to get to TRUE lightsaber territory you'd have to have something like a +10 longsword with Keen, Vorpal, Blurstrike, Defending, Deflecting, Doomstrike, Eager, Force, Warning, Spellblade, Screaming, Mighty Cleaving. :)

Nah. Half those power are jedi and the force. The basic function of a lightsaber is nowhere near as spectacular

[skunk3]

Yeah but without actually being a Jedi, that would get you kinda close at least in terms of covering some of the bases in a weapon. :)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Nah. Half those power are jedi and the force. The basic function of a lightsaber is nowhere near as spectacular

And half of the rest are the different use of injuries between film and TRPG. In TRPGs, you get dozens of small injuries that might add up to something serious down the line, while in films main characters only get wounds serious enough to hamper them in some way.

[DurionArcanis]

The Eldritch Glaive in a rod is only flavor. No it's not a legit lightsaber the guide writer meant it as a joke comment, it's being taken way too literally now lol.

As for Eldritch Claws, it's a feat from Dragon Magazine, if it's even allowed it is not an Eldritch shape and technically isn't even a use of your Eldritch Blast. The RAW details that "While your eldritch claws exist you may make up to two claw attacks as natural weapons." and "you deal your normal amount of unarmed strike damage plus your eldritch blast damage".

Huh, now I wanna make a gestalt build between a Clawlock and an Unarmed Swordsage... That would be pretty killer.

[GreatWyrmGold]

files that idea away for a gestalt game that will never come

[Mordaedil]

Yeah but without actually being a Jedi, that would get you kinda close at least in terms of covering some of the bases in a weapon. :)

If you want to play a medieval jedi, I think psychic warrior will get your further on that path, although warlock isn't a bit fit for an evil version.

[DurionArcanis]

files that idea away for a gestalt game that will never come

I've played quite a few gestalt and partial gestalt games, you just gotta know how to find them.

[Endarire]

If we're playing in an E8 environment with no flaws/traits but with all sources allowed pending GM approval and starting at level 3, how do Glaivelock and Clawlock compare?

[Troacctid]

If we're playing in an E8 environment with no flaws/traits but with all sources allowed pending GM approval and starting at level 3, how do Glaivelock and Clawlock compare?

Glaive doesn't give you an extra attack until level 8. Claws give you the extra attack at level 3 and can still make a single attack as a standard action. I prefer claws. How is your game handling LA?

[DurionArcanis]

If we're playing in an E8 environment with no flaws/traits but with all sources allowed pending GM approval and starting at level 3, how do Glaivelock and Clawlock compare?

I would definitely say that clawlock trumps glaivelock at any level unless you're building for reach. And even if you are, it's still worth the feat. Hell you can do both technically, though pick one to focus more on for low level feats.

[Troacctid]

The nice thing about eldritch glaive is that it's easy for most warlocks to just retrain into it at higher levels and have it be decent without a ton of effort, but at lower levels it does practically nothing. Eldritch Claws is more powerful and can be used right from level 3, but of course you need to actually care about Strength.

[weckar]

I mean, glaive is a touch attack while claws are not. That difference can be so huge, I like having both options.