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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    So it seems like once every five decades or so some demon gets a wild hair up its ass and tries to invade a Prime Material World. Is there anything demons in general, or perhaps Tanar'ri or Obyriths in the specific, are hoping to gain by laying siege to the realm of mortals aside from 'break stuff, kill people, sire dozens of half-fiends'?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystra View Post
    The Lady of Pain just rules a city, that does not make her all that powerful.
    Right. It's not like she, y'know, makes that city inaccessible to anyone with a divine rank. And even if she did, divine ranks have nothing to do with whether or not someone counts as a god.
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    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

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  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemon-freak89 View Post
    Right. It's not like she, y'know, makes that city inaccessible to anyone with a divine rank. And even if she did, divine ranks have nothing to do with whether or not someone counts as a god.
    Not that I disagree with you, but being able to say "no" to gods in a single narrowly defined context doesn't necessarily make you more powerful, it just means you have the high ground in that particular conflict. A concrete dam is not capable of everything that a river can do, but it is specifically designed to be more powerful than the river within one specific context, that of stemming the river's flow. The river is still free to flow anywhere else that the terrain allows it to, it just can't go directly through the dam.

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Not that I disagree with you, but being able to say "no" to gods in a single narrowly defined context doesn't necessarily make you more powerful
    Being able to kill them does, however, and she killed the heck out of a greater power. In the blink of an eye.

    Lord_Gareth, I'll attend to your question tomorrow.
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  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Most magic items don't cost 100,000 gp.

    Picture the mobius as a type of corporate billing currency; it's not a $100 bill, it's more like a poker chip representing $100, where said poker chip is the absolute minimum denomination. We're talking stacks, cords, bags of the things trading hands - carefully, too. On the flipside, it's like a $100 bill in that your average merchant is just not going to accept currency like this.

    The magic item trade is largely run on barter and on compact, trustworthy currency - gems are popular, being hard to fake, easy to test and potentially very profitable to appraise. Gold and similar currencies continue to make up the change in such transactions.
    It takes 80 Mobius to purchase a single +2 sword at market cost. Even that few would be a stack or cord or two, and magic item costs just go up from there. It just seems that the Mobius would be a compact, trustworthy, hard to fake, and easy to test form of currency, especially since it's hard to argue that a Mobius is worth less than 100gp, as an equivalent gem may be. I'm not saying that gems might not be better, I'm just curious as to why Mobius are not used more, especially by adventurers (the multiverse's equivalent of big-spending multimillionaires, at higher levels).
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    So it seems like once every five decades or so some demon gets a wild hair up its ass and tries to invade a Prime Material World. Is there anything demons in general, or perhaps Tanar'ri or Obyriths in the specific, are hoping to gain by laying siege to the realm of mortals aside from 'break stuff, kill people, sire dozens of half-fiends'?
    Oh, devils do it too. Remember also that with so many unseen worlds on the Prime, there are places in which the fiends are successful.

    Part of it is a power gambit; dominion over Prime worlds supplies great power, whether in belief, souls, resources or just manual labor.

    The other part is a bit more cosmic; bringing ruin, darkness and despair into a world reduces the sway of good and the power of deities, while domination (for baatezu) or devastation (for tanar'ri) fulfill their goals of attacking along the ethical axis as well.

    Of course, sometimes their goals are stranger. The demon lord behind the Savage Tide was merely out to scratch an itch he couldn't quite reach*; the fact that the ritual to do so required the madness of millions was par for the course where he was concerned.

    *figuratively speaking
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2013-01-07 at 10:17 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Ah, thank you - that makes tons of sense. Somewhat related question:

    Fiends often stop and create half-fiends while on the Material, especially when they're invading a world - they do it to create 'improved' versions of their minions, to acquire generals and subordinates to work under them, as parts of "love affairs" or as a matter of cruelty. Half-fiend being a crappy template aside, this seems like brilliant thinking on their part. Do the forces of Good create half-celestials for practical reasons as well (increased capacity to resist evil, greater wisdom to lead the innocent, etc), and if not what DOES tend to be the reasons for the creation of half-celestials?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by DMofDarkness View Post
    It takes 80 Mobius to purchase a single +2 sword at market cost. Even that few would be a stack or cord or two, and magic item costs just go up from there.
    80 is too small a number, and merchants who deal with things in that fairly marketable range desire a more granular and fungible currency. Not to mention adventurers don't tend to have this form of coinage anyway.

    It just seems that the Mobius would be a compact, trustworthy, hard to fake, and easy to test form of currency, especially since it's hard to argue that a Mobius is worth less than 100gp, as an equivalent gem may be.
    Gems have variable prices. If you want to purchase something of 100 gp value, I'll take a 100 gp gem for it, sure. If you want something costing 10,000 gp, I'd like a 10,000 gp gem. I won't appraise 100 small stones to see what they might be worth; nor would I assess 100 mobius to make sure they're all real. Coming from some berk off the street, I'd be suspicious of them, and each coin is of too high a value to take that kind of risk.

    I'm not saying that gems might not be better, I'm just curious as to why Mobius are not used more, especially by adventurers (the multiverse's equivalent of big-spending multimillionaires, at higher levels).
    Adventurers aren't even in the ballpark. The Golden Lords of Sigil each individually sneer at a 20th level adventurer's total wealth. Adventurers aren't "rich" on the Planes; they're upper middle class at best, and that's at very high levels.

    The other side of the one-sided coin is: where would adventurers even get such coinage? They're not found in hoards; most employers conduct small transactions in gold and copper; they change hands very rarely outside of Sigil and other massive markets. Suppose you're starting out with a job that pays 500 gp; would you really want that paid out as five coins of limited fungibility?

    The real-world equivalent would be $100 bills; many smaller stores in Canada and the US refuse to accept them as they cannot make change/fear counterfeit/worry about theft risk.
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  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Do the forces of Good create half-celestials for practical reasons as well (increased capacity to resist evil, greater wisdom to lead the innocent, etc), and if not what DOES tend to be the reasons for the creation of half-celestials?
    No. Good doesn't use unnatural breeding programs purely for the purpose of exploiting the resultant living beings in some fashion. (Actually, evil tends not to either; most half-fiends are unwanted by-blows).

    As for the actual *ahem* "reason" why half-celestials are created, I refer you to the birds and the celestial bees.
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  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Of course, sometimes their goals are stranger. The demon lord behind the Savage Tide was merely out to scratch an itch he couldn't quite reach*; the fact that the ritual to do so required the madness of millions was par for the course where he was concerned.

    *figuratively speaking
    Could you explain that some more? Wikipedia tells me that you're talking about {redacted}, but how was his goal any different from the usual "spread havoc and depravity because that's what I do"? (No worry about it being a spoiler, it's not like I'm ever going to play the Adventure Path.)
    Last edited by willpell; 2013-01-09 at 07:43 PM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Could you explain that some more? Wikipedia tells me that you're talking about Demogorgon, but how was his goal any different from the usual "spread havoc and depravity because that's what I do"? (No worry about it being a spoiler, it's not like I'm ever going to play the Adventure Path.)
    Um, well, some other people might... so yes, I'm going to treat it as a spoiler.

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    Demogorgon's two heads are each individual personalities, and each despises the other. The Savage Tide is a component of a ritual that one head believes will eliminate the other personality for good.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    If I wanted to hide something - let's say a greater artifact like a Sphere of Annihilation - on the Planes from people, what sorts of locations should I drop it in? I mean, most of the obvious ones that occur to me (hell, neg energy plane, etc) for hiding things of this nature run into problems where either A. Things LIVE there or B. They'd destroy the artifact I'm trying to protect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    If I wanted to hide something - let's say a greater artifact like a Sphere of Annihilation - on the Planes from people, what sorts of locations should I drop it in? I mean, most of the obvious ones that occur to me (hell, neg energy plane, etc) for hiding things of this nature run into problems where either A. Things LIVE there or B. They'd destroy the artifact I'm trying to protect.
    Well, the earlier question regarding secret places had a few good answers, but the best hideyhole for any artifact is Agathion.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Well, the earlier question regarding secret places had a few good answers, but the best hideyhole for any artifact is Agathion.
    Is what now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Is what now?
    Agathion, the fourth layer of Pandemonium. You'd be in good company; the gods use it for the same purpose.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    So you'd be hiding a piece of hay in an infinitely large haystack. While a needle storm rages all the while.

    That about right?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    So you'd be hiding a piece of hay in an infinitely large haystack. While a needle storm rages all the while.

    That about right?
    Agathion's different from the rest of the plane; it's pockets isolated in a vast and largely impenetrable environment of thick stone. If you don't know exactly where you're going before you enter the layer, you won't get anywhere. It's just not navigable.

    And yes, you would first need to descend through at least one layer of windy unpleasantness, in all likelihood.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Considering the number of things that can move through stone quite easily, that doesn't seem like enough. Are there other impediments?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    How much do guardinals and eladrins know/suspect/understand about their progenitors?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    Considering the number of things that can move through stone quite easily, that doesn't seem like enough. Are there other impediments?
    Well, for one thing, we're talking about incredible distances; oceans of stone. For another, the layer has a nasty habit of answering divinations with maddening screams; being filled with arbitrary, powerful and very nasty wards; closing up parts of itself it no longer deems relevant; and of course there are the monsters. Big nasty ones. You're familiar with the trope Sealed Evil In A Can? Meet The Can.

    Then there are the vacuums. Some of the pockets literally have nothing in them. Not a pleasant thing to traipse into. There are also the cyclones; great wrenching twisters that drill through the stone from other layers with such force that they are capable of propelling a creature hundreds of miles at high speed - almost always resulting in brutal death on the merciless walls of the plane.

    In other words, if you don't know exactly where you're going, you'll probably end up trapped or dead, and there's never really a way to know other than entering through the designated gate. Then there's the possibility of crossing paths with some other entity that had the same idea as you...
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  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    How much influence do the githzerai actually have on Limbo? Also, I remember reading about some lawful slaadi they've allied themselves with in an issue of Dragon. Are those (Gremmel, I think?) canonical, and if they are, have they appeared in anything other than that issue of Dragon?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    How much influence do the githzerai actually have on Limbo?
    Well, it's Limbo, so influence isn't really quantified in standard fashions; instead, it has to be measured in terms of Zarathustra marshmallow skating dimetrodon ebola virus Cabbage Patch Kid.

    They're certainly A Force on Limbo, for whatever that's worth on that plane.

    Also, I remember reading about some lawful slaadi they've allied themselves with in an issue of Dragon. Are those (Gremmel, I think?) canonical, and if they are, have they appeared in anything other than that issue of Dragon?
    Gormeel, and given that it was an April issue...

    They're canonical as far as Dragon ever is, though. As to being used in other materials, I can't recall seeing them.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Um, well, some other people might... so yes, I'm going to treat it as a spoiler.
    Oh, I didn't mean it like that; I just meant you could save yourself the effort of posting "Well are you sure you want to know? it'd be a spoiler" before posting the answer itself (in spoiler-box, as you did). Oh well, thanks for the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Well, it's Limbo, so influence isn't really quantified in standard fashions; instead, it has to be measured in terms of Zarathustra marshmallow skating dimetrodon ebola virus Cabbage Patch Kid.
    I should really be tired of that joke by now, but somehow it continues to work for me.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Well, it's Limbo, so influence isn't really quantified in standard fashions; instead, it has to be measured in terms of Zarathustra marshmallow skating dimetrodon ebola virus Cabbage Patch Kid.
    And here I thought your hatred for dinosaurs in D&D was absolute.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    And here I thought your hatred for dinosaurs in D&D was absolute.
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    Dimetrodon is often mistaken as a dinosaur or as a contemporary of dinosaurs in popular culture, but it went extinct around 40 million years before the appearance of the first dinosaur in the Triassic period. Generally reptile-like in appearance and physiology, Dimetrodon is nevertheless more closely related to mammals than it is to any living reptilian group, though it is not a direct ancestor of any mammals. Dimetrodon belongs to a group traditionally called "mammal-like reptiles", more recently termed "stem-mammals" or "non-mammalian synapsids"[2] because many vertebrate paleontologists today group Dimetrodon together with mammals in an evolutionary group or clade called Synapsida while dinosaurs go together with living reptiles and birds in a separate group, Sauropsida.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Aha, I believe I know how I'll be building my character in your next campaign.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    Aha, I believe I know how I'll be building my character in your next campaign.
    Should have seen that coming.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Should have seen that coming.
    How common are undead on the Planes in general? Do the Planes see a greater instance of 'pure' undead such as Shadows, Nightwalkers and their ilk, or is the mix similar to that seen on the Prime? Is necromancy a common pursuit for fiends, or are there not enough things that leave Real Actual Corpses to make it worth it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    Aha, I believe I know how I'll be building my character in your next campaign.
    Wait, afrokuma runs campaigns? Any on the forums? If this thread is any indication, I'd love to get into one!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Able' Xanthis View Post
    This is what a properly motivated caster is like, people. Concussive explosions able to rip the front end of a hummer in twain and Chilling is using them to filter out those who don't make the cut. Those unworthy of his true magistic might.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    How common are undead on the Planes in general?
    Not very. Exceptions exist; there's some form of undead or other on most planes, and of course the Negative Energy Plane and Plane of Shadow are just riddled with the things.

    Do the Planes see a greater instance of 'pure' undead such as Shadows, Nightwalkers and their ilk, or is the mix similar to that seen on the Prime?
    *pictures Heartless*

    Pretty much cleaves to the above answer. Planes that are linked with undeath are more likely to host "pure" undead, while the individual nature of other planes tends to restrict undead to adapted forms.

    Is necromancy a common pursuit for fiends, or are there not enough things that leave Real Actual Corpses to make it worth it?
    They don't generally get into it; a small number do, but it's outside the spell-like abilities of most and few pursue the requisite abilities.
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