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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Idiots and accidents. That's it. The Far Realm has no desire to have contact with the Great Wheel any more than the Great Wheel likes rubbing elbows with the Far Realm.
    Do you have a source for that? There's so little info on the Far Realm that I find it hard to believe this statement is definitive (not that I have a problem with that, just wanting to be clear on what's Canon vs. Fanon). To disclaim, I don't have much backup for any of what I'm stating...Otiax is in Tome of Magic and the Stross thing below comes from Wikipedia, most of the rest is my own speculation and shouldn't be hard to identify as such.

    I've seen at least one thing that seems to imply otherwise - the vestige Otiax, a Far Realm entity which may just be symbolic of the act of breaking through gates, but also might be specifically attempting to batter down whatever barrier keeps it out of our reality. (My pet theory is that Otiax differs from other Vestiges in that becoming a quasi-real entity which exists only when petitioned by Binders was a step up from his previous state, at least compared to the PMP.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Limbo and Giant Frogs, why is this, do you think?
    IIRC Charles Stross wrote the Slaad into existence, intending them to be a Lovecraft-esque force of pure chaos, existing only to breed at the expense of other lifeforms while babbling madness and un-maliciously attacking and killing anything that moves, just because that's what they do. (If a tiger is not evil because he kills you for food, and an Inevitable is not evil because he kills you for technical violation of some contract you agreed to, then a Slaad can get away with not killing you just because he's insane and destructive, as long as he's not sentient enough to be genuinely enjoying it...sadism is evil, but a random-brained Chaos outsider can be regarded as being as innocent-yet-dangerous as a thunderbolt or a dropped bottle of nitroglycerine.)

    My guess is that Stross was *not* responsible for Limbo being a swirling elemental chaos, and probably didn't know that it was when he wrote the Slaad...it may not even have been that in main D&D continuity at the time, it's possible that this was before the MOTP/Planescape cosmology entirely supplanted all alternatives as the default truth for all D&D worlds unless specified otherwise. Personally I think the Slaad make more sense if you treat Limbo as not made of the classic elements, but more of a generalized ectoplasm-esque proto-substance, a primordial soup from which the Slaad crawled like the protean efts whelped by several Lovecraftiverse entities (notably Abhoth and Ubbo-Sathla, arguably Tsathoggua and HPL's own Shub-Niggurath).

    All of these entities are non-evil by way of existing too far outside a human frame of reference to be answerable to human conceptions of morality (much as with animals, except that rather than "mindless" they're "other-minded"). I don't think the Far Realm had been conceived of back when the Slaad first appeared, so being non-evil but ultradestructive made them Chaotic according to the classification standards of the time, and thus they got put into Limbo whether or not that made any real sense for them (not that failure to make sense is not inherently sensible for such beings, of course). In my campaign, I played up some of this confusion by speculating a third, sort of nascent third alignment axis, not fully realized, which puts Nature Power on one end and various brands of Madness at the other; this makes the Far Realm essentially the "Outer Plane" of Madness, and thus divorces it from Chaos at least partially, which I thought seemed to possess a nonzero degree of reasonableness. (My game also speculates a similar sort-of-Outer-Plane for Nature which is the source of various Druid powers, though it's explicitly not really a separate "place", but rather a sort of manifestation of the PMP; likewise the Far Realm is a manifestation of everything that has no place in the PMP, and the various Inner and Outer planes are all "neutral" on this axis.)

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Hypothetically, if Asmodeus had some help when devising the Pact Primeval (by say the original god of trickery/deceit) and was later betrayed by said help, would it be within his nature to hold a grudge (and plan to act on it) even though they were caught and tried fairly?

    Also, is there any evidence of what happened to Zariel, the previous ruler of Avernus? If she still exists, would she still be loyal to Asmodeus or Baator at all? I wonder if she would be likely to accept an offer by a god of trickery to get some revenge...
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    This is a fascinating thread. Thanks for the questions and answers.

    If you've time for one more question, here's mine: The Plane of Shadow is supposedly inhabited by native life forms. But how do you imagine this plane's flora and fauna – and above all its must intelligent beings – survive, given that they must constantly be on their guard to avoid being killed by life-hating nightshades?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Urrel View Post
    This is a fascinating thread. Thanks for the questions and answers.

    If you've time for one more question, here's mine: The Plane of Shadow is supposedly inhabited by native life forms. But how do you imagine this plane's flora and fauna – and above all its must intelligent beings – survive, given that they must constantly be on their guard to avoid being killed by life-hating nightshades?
    Not only that. How can you have flora in a place that's always dark?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quick Eberron question:
    My player wants to play githzerai, so, how do githzerai fit in Eberron cosmology? (Guess I missed place for them somehow.)
    English isn't my native language, sorry for mistypes.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Limbo and Giant Frogs, why is this, do you think?
    Not sure why "giant frog" was what was picked, but I do know why slaad don't come in more varieties: Ssendam and Ygorl, the original slaad lords, restricted the randomness of slaad forms and natures in order to prevent new slaad of their level from arising. It doesn't always work (this IS Limbo, after all...) but it's been generally successful; in a perverse twist of intent, it's resulted in gray slaadi seeking power by turning to evil (becoming death slaadi) as they can't really progress on chaos alone.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    It seems as though a lot of Demon Princes are trying to become gods. Why is divinity so appealing for these beings? Are any of the Archdukes of Hell pursuing similar goals, and if not, why not?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Do you have a source for that?
    I have a great many. There's a wealth of info on the Far Realm if you know where to look. All contact with the Far Realm falls into either idiots (anyone on either side of the great divide who knowingly chooses to go probing into things they shouldn't) or accidents (anyone or anyTHING that is a victim of circumstance or someone else's idiocy). Even entities such as Father Llymic fall into this simple rule - either it elected to come through the rift (and is thus an idiot) or went through by accident. Otiax is not provably of the Far Realm - I have a few competing notions on that - though if it was, it isn't now, being a vestige.

    The point is, for entities of the Far Realm, the Great Wheel is toxic and miserable. That's why they attempt to widen links back to their distant home and spread what we consider to be "contamination" - because to them, they're just getting out the buckets of Lysol and working to scrub a little footprint "clean."
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Hypothetically, if Asmodeus had some help when devising the Pact Primeval (by say the original god of trickery/deceit) and was later betrayed by said help, would it be within his nature to hold a grudge (and plan to act on it) even though they were caught and tried fairly?

    Also, is there any evidence of what happened to Zariel, the previous ruler of Avernus? If she still exists, would she still be loyal to Asmodeus or Baator at all? I wonder if she would be likely to accept an offer by a god of trickery to get some revenge...
    Oh, Asmodeus never forgets. He'd never act on a grudge he wouldn't consider lawfully discharged, but he would never, ever forget.

    As to direct evidence, there is little, but it is rumored that Bel, Lord of the First, keeps his predecessor imprisoned in the depths of his castle and siphons her energies to grow in power and retain control of the layer despite being a non-unique devil. The quakes that have grown in frequency over the past several centuries may be linked to her screams.
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Urrel View Post
    This is a fascinating thread. Thanks for the questions and answers.

    If you've time for one more question, here's mine: The Plane of Shadow is supposedly inhabited by native life forms. But how do you imagine this plane's flora and fauna – and above all its must intelligent beings – survive, given that they must constantly be on their guard to avoid being killed by life-hating nightshades?
    How do you survive in a world with dragons?

    The answer is, most don't survive a nightshade; while there are some who could band together and struggle against a nightwing, nightwalkers are terrific threats that carve swaths of devastation when active. As for nightcrawlers, they are the source of the Darklands, the regions of the plane that have the minor negative-dominant trait. These are the lairs of the great beasts.

    Fortunately for indigenous life, being a native of Shadow confers some limited protection from the notice of nightshades and shadows, for your own physiology incorporates some of the same darkness that makes up theirs. Thus, unless you're right in their path or associating with someone or something from a more lighted realm, or they're feeling particularly aggressive, nightshades aren't likely to go out of their way to assault you. That said, the more concentrated life is and the more structured the shadowstuff nearby, the more likely it is that a nightshade will strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Not only that. How can you have flora in a place that's always dark?
    Shadow flora does not derive life from solar illumination. It flourishes under different conditions.
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2013-01-02 at 12:09 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Biotroll: I'm not the Eberron guy, I'll tell you that right now. However, Keith Baker himself suggested that githyanki and githzerai are refugees from a world the daelkyr previously invaded and destroyed. He also suggested that mind flayers might be to the gith as dolgaunts are to hobgoblins. In any event, they're rare, sullen and out-of-the way. Other takes can be found in the Player's Guide to Eberron and the Explorer's Handbook, IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    It seems as though a lot of Demon Princes are trying to become gods. Why is divinity so appealing for these beings? Are any of the Archdukes of Hell pursuing similar goals, and if not, why not?
    Divinity is just another form of power. In the chaotic struggles of the Abyss, power is something immensely desirable. It's worth noting that many of the most prominent Demon Princes aren't really all that interested in it, though.

    Most of the Archdukes have cults on the Material Plane, though largely to spread corruption and evil. Mammon lusts for power and prestige and has quietly maneuvered toward seeking godhood, though his natural cowardice has held him back from pursuing it further. Mephistopheles has both ambition and a love of being worshiped - he'd like being a real god.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    All contact with the Far Realm falls into either idiots (anyone on either side of the great divide who knowingly chooses to go probing into things they shouldn't) or accidents (anyone or anyTHING that is a victim of circumstance or someone else's idiocy). Even entities such as Father Llymic fall into this simple rule - either it elected to come through the rift (and is thus an idiot) or went through by accident.
    There's some word for a logical fallacy which I think is what you're doing in the parts I've bolded here not No True Scotsman but something very close to it (I don't study formal logic so I only know the terms if I've happened to osmose them popculturally recently enough to not have forgotten). I don't really disagree with the overall idea (that seeking out the other realm is A Bad Idea), but you're defining "idiot" circularly here - anyone who makes contact is an idiot because only idiots would make contact and vice versa - and I can believe there are a nonzero number of people who don't qualify. Individuals so powerful, and so sensible in their precautions, that they can believe it to be a reasonable calculated risk, to try and get firsthand information about a dimension antithetical to all existence. After all, outer space is absurdly deadly and yet we've been figuring out ways to go up there for half a century now...in possibly as little as 2 years, if you believe a Yahoo news article, there could be recreational trips to space, purchased at a cost of millions by bored rich dudes despite the fact that it would take a minor miscalculation in the craft's shielding to get them a lethal dose of cosmic rays. While these joyriders are probably fully deserving of the label under discussion, their counterparts in NASA, builders of probes like Voyager and Curiosity as well as actual astronauts who went for science and a place in the history books, probably deserve a little more credit.

    (I swear I'm not picking a fight with you on this or any other topic, I'm just talking through the implications of an interesting puzzle.)

    That's why they attempt to widen links back to their distant home and spread what we consider to be "contamination" - because to them, they're just getting out the buckets of Lysol and working to scrub a little footprint "clean."
    Nicely put, but it makes me wonder if the same might ultimately be true of Evil and demons and the like...is trying to corrupt the souls of the virtuous anything more than a terraforming effort for extradimensional creatures who live and breathe malice and anguish for their mere survival?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    How do you survive in a world with dragons?
    Very carefully.

    Shadow flora does not derive life from solar illumination. It flourishes under different conditions.
    Yes, instead of Chlorophyll, it has Melanophyll. A black pigment found in the lush black foliage of these otherwise-black plants, which absorbs the black non-light from the black sky and uses it to scotosynthesize carboanhydrates for quasimetabolism.
    Last edited by willpell; 2013-01-02 at 12:41 PM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    But were the borders on the Crystal Sphere "hard"? Put in other words, if you kept distancing yourself from Oerth and further into Greyspace, would you eventually bump into a physical, invisible wall? Or would you keep on going unless you knew how to exit that Crystal Sphere? And now, the reason why this might be relevant to this thread, though it's merely speculation: if the latter were to happen, than wouldn't the Phlogiston be better thought of as some sort of "hyperspace", a "layer" to the Prime Material (however odd that would be!), or even a Transitive Plane that shortens travel time (Plane of Shadow, anyone?!?), instead of merely a part of the Prime Material?
    1.Each Crystal sphere is hard and solid.
    2.Crystal Spheres are not invisible, so you'd have to want to crash into a solid curved wall.
    3.You can think of the Phlogiston as ''HyperSpace'', it fits well enough.
    4.Technically, Spelljammer wise, each Crystal Sphere is it's own ''Prime Plane'' as each Sphere has different laws of physics, magic and such.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Individuals so powerful, and so sensible in their precautions, that they can believe it to be a reasonable calculated risk, to try and get firsthand information about a dimension antithetical to all existence.
    Their belief is mistaken. The original adventure featuring the Far Realm made exactly this point: that persons of sufficient power, foresight and knowledge were wrong. It's a Lovecraftian notion: the mortal mind cannot reasonably contend with what lies beyond the great rift. Presuming to is dangerous arrogance, and electing to seek out a place beyond the natural order of things is idiocy on either side of the veil. When the ancient elves went through, they died, went mad and/or mutated horribly. When the kaorti came back through, the same things happened to them.

    There's a difference between trying to push the two realities back apart - closing the gates, sealing the rifts, dislodging the unwanted visitors - and crossing into the other reality for any reason. It's a horrible horrible idea. And it doesn't matter if you're Bob the Farmer or Piscaethces the Blood Queen; he's now seventy two billion pieces of squidlike jelly that stare at each other from across ten wafer-thin layers of a realm beyond understanding, while she's lodged deep in the Nine Hells and is not enjoying this "fire" and "bleeding" that she's come to learn of over the eons.

    Nicely put, but it makes me wonder if the same might ultimately be true of Evil and demons and the like...is trying to corrupt the souls of the virtuous anything more than a terraforming effort for extradimensional creatures who live and breathe malice and anguish for their mere survival?
    Yes. Fiends don't need to terraform (at least not that way. Wastriliths still need pools to swim happily in, that sort of thing). Our reality is explicitly antithetical and toxic to creatures of the Far Realm. If a portal to the Lower Planes is sealed, the fiends who have already come through can get along just fine on this side. A portal to the Far Realm being sealed usually means the death of its natives on the wrong side within days or weeks if not seconds.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Not only that. How can you have flora in a place that's always dark?
    The plane of shadows is not always dark, it's shadowy.

    Also, as a biologist: life even on our planet doesn't necessarily need sunlight. There's chemical energy, or gamma radiation that works too. In a magical world, there's so many more ways.

    Edit: to absorb black light, if such a thing existed, you'd need a white pigment (albuphyll, maybe? I'm not good at old languages). Chlorophyll absorbs mostly red light.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2013-01-02 at 01:06 PM.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    I believe I have another answer for Slaadi and their relation to Chaos: Supposedly in egyptian mythology the chaos before creation was inhabited by primordial gods, which took the form of frogs and snakes.

    Moreover, how many other animals can represent Chaos's transformative aspects better than the frog? In its life cycle, it changes from water-breather to air-breather, herbivore to carnivore, finned to legged.

    Also, frogs are commonly associated with bringers of plagues and destruction.
    If you take a single Red or Blue slaadi via Planar Binding or whatever and go to a town and start infecting a bunch of people, eventually you'll have a bunch of slaadi of different colors, and even if you manage to control them or something they will still be hella dangerous.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    First off, I love this thread for the very simple reason that it tempted me to go check out planescape... Just what I was looking for!

    First question: is there any exact or even general cut-off for what constitutes a "power" with regards to the Lady of Pain's YOU MUST BE THIS SHORT TO RIDE THIS RIDE around sigil?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Basically if you're a deity, keep out.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crinias View Post
    I believe I have another answer for Slaadi and their relation to Chaos
    Ultimately I still think the best answer is that chaos is simply so much more self-aware than any of us could reckon that it ran through every possibility and determined that the answer to life, the universe and everything could best be expressed as GIANT FROG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    First off, I love this thread for the very simple reason that it tempted me to go check out planescape... Just what I was looking for!

    First question: is there any exact or even general cut-off for what constitutes a "power" with regards to the Lady of Pain's YOU MUST BE THIS SHORT TO RIDE THIS RIDE around sigil?
    Demigod or higher. Beings with divine rank 0 can typically enter but really, really shouldn't. Divine rank 1+, you're banned.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    I've got a couple for you:

    1. What can you tell me about the Baernaloths? (Baernoloths?)

    2. Who do you think the Prisoner of Elysium is?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    I've got a couple for you:

    1. What can you tell me about the Baernaloths? (Baernoloths?)
    The baernaloths are considered to be the progenitors of the yugoloths, an elder race of exemplars of an older order that has largely been supplanted by the current planar races. Yugoloths claim that the baernaloths are the original manifestations of pure evil, and scholars believe that they have counterparts of law, good, chaos and balance. The baernaloths are said to have crafted the yugoloths as an expression of purest evil, to become their successors.

    Such myths claim that the ancient baatorians and obyriths are no more than byproducts of a refining process, castoffs of the baernaloths' true vision of evil. It is known that the gehreleths are creations of a rogue baernaloth named Apomps, who was exiled for his arrogance and resides deep within Carceri.

    Baernaloths do exist; they are few in number, but even in their shriveled and reduced state they remain active as shadowy forces of evil. Unlike their creations, the baernaloths by and large remained in Hades. Many of their number grow mad and throw themselves into the Blood War as crazed commanders. A group called The Demented are said to be shadowy puppetmasters advising the highest echelons of yugoloth society.

    2. Who do you think the Prisoner of Elysium is?
    Oh well, that would be telling!

    I'll give you some ideas as to who it isn't, though:

    • It's not a baatezu, or any Archduke of Hell/Lord of the Nine.

    • It's not a monster of legend.

    • It's not a tanar'ri, or any Demon Prince/Demon Lord.

    • It's not from the Far Realm.

    • It's not from the Inner Planes.

    • It's not a god.

    • Most of the forces of evil trying to seek it out haven't any idea what it is.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    When something is so neutral, that it cares not for the battles going on , and the god accepts everyone from Lawful Good, to Chaotic Evil. How do the followers get along , and keep things together without it all falling apart. Does the service to the god superseded the Law vs chaos and good vs evil interference .


    The god in this case being Gond.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Is there any way to hold off or negate the negative effects of Elysium/The Grey Wastes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    When something is so neutral, that it cares not for the battles going on , and the god accepts everyone from Lawful Good, to Chaotic Evil. How do the followers get along , and keep things together without it all falling apart. Does the service to the god superseded the Law vs chaos and good vs evil interference .

    The god in this case being Gond.
    Well that's where sects come in. Branches of worship dedicated to approaching a deity from a certain perspective. You see this with all deities; even lawful good gods have sects that hold good above law, clashing with sects that hold law above good.

    Once they're in the afterlife, it tends to sort itself out. True worshipers of Gond go to his realm, Wonderhome, on the Outlands, where they all steadily become more like him (that is to say, their alignment shifts toward neutrality).
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    When something is so neutral, that it cares not for the battles going on , and the god accepts everyone from Lawful Good, to Chaotic Evil. How do the followers get along , and keep things together without it all falling apart. Does the service to the god superseded the Law vs chaos and good vs evil interference .


    The god in this case being Gond.
    Can't speak to Gond in general, but in terms of neutral gods I am familiar with, such as Boccob, Obad-Hai and Xan Yae, just figure that their policy toward other followers amounts to "live and let live". The organization probably has a loose hierarchy within which a certain amount of social Darwinism is permitted but obedience to direct orders from superiors is always expected unless you have a damn good reason to try to subvert it.

    Example 1: Evil Boccobite plays Dr. Mengele with captured elementals and comes up with new magical technique. Good Boccobite doesn't approve of the method of gaining this knowledge, but figures that failing to maintain the records of the knowledge will only lead to another Boccobite repeating the process, so he archives, uses and disseminates the information against his own personal feelings.

    Example 2: Lawful Obadian believes in upholding ancient druidic rites of seasonal passage; his student is Chaotic and just wants to set animals on fire. The master knows that adolescent rebellion is a natural part of the maturation process and allows the student to disrespect the Old Ways all he wants in private, but makes sure the student knows he will be turned into fertilizer if he's stupid enough to release a flaming dire weasel in the middle of the Rites of Spring.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Is there any way to hold off or negate the negative effects of Elysium/The Grey Wastes?
    Will saves.

    There are probably certain spells, magical items and special materials that will do it as well, of course, but over any given length of time you'll need to either keep spending resources or have a sturdy Will.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Is there any way to shake the 'tag' Carceri puts on you - the magical effect which inevitably drags you back there?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Is there any way to shake the 'tag' Carceri puts on you - the magical effect which inevitably drags you back there?
    You know what they say about being back on the wagon, how you don't ever know you won't fall off again until you're dead?

    People have devised ways that they believe work, but it's a hard thing to detect and a hard thing to prove. We may never know.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Why are they called Primes anyway?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Why are they called Primes anyway?
    Because there's a lot of 'em, they're not hard to find in most cases, and they're not too useful most of the time? Sorry, math joke, couldn't resist!
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