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    Default Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Animate Tiny Animal Undead (Andead)
    School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 0, witch 0
    Casting Time 1 standard action
    Components V, S, M (10 gp black onyx pebble)
    Range touch
    Target one Tiny or smaller animal corpse or skeleton
    Duration permanent
    Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

    This spell turns the body or bones of an animal of size Tiny or smaller into an undead resembling a zombie; it is called an andead. It has ˝ d8 HD, 2 hp (or 1 hp if smaller than Tiny), no damage reduction or Toughness feat, and is Neutral in alignment, but otherwise follows the rules for the zombie template including Str +2, Dex –2. Despite these limitations, this spell is popular among novice necromancers because of its simplicity to learn and its relatively cheap material component.

    The andead will obey the caster's commands but there are only a small number of commands that the andead is able to understand and obey:

    - guard this place:
    Attack all creatures within line of sight other than the caster or specific andead created by the same caster within sight or in sight when the order is given, up to a maximum total of 9 other andead. If more andead are in sight, they will not be able to keep track and will attack each other. If a creature to be attacked passes through the area, the andead will follow it and try to catch and attack it, though they will change targets randomly if additional targets are within sight.

    - go there; stop; follow me; guard me here (attack any who attack me; the andead won't follow and guard under the same command); attack that creature.

    It only obeys the last command given. If the caster is disguised or has substantially changed (such as being reincarnated in a different body) it will no longer recognize or obey the caster.

    Unlike animate dead, this spell is an ongoing effect and can be dispelled, which kills the andead but leaves the body intact and able to be re-animated.

    Also, if too many andead are close together, the magics will tend to interfere with each other. If more than 10 andead are within a 10' radius, then some of the spells will be dispelled (choose randomly) until there are no more than 10 left.

    It remains otherwise animated until it is destroyed. If destroyed it cannot be reanimated again.

    Regardless of the number of times this spell is cast, only a single undead from this spell may be controlled at any one time by a single caster. If one is animated using this spell while another is already animated, the original will become uncontrolled, though continuing to follow its last order.

    It does not count against your HD limit of controlled undead. The undead can be created only from a mostly intact skeleton or corpse, and has the same stats in either case.

    Feats that enhance or add qualities to undead that you animate do not work with this spell.

    Sample creature:
    ANDEAD RAT CR 1/10 XP 40
    N Tiny undead
    Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +0
    AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+1 Dex, +2 size)
    hp 2 (˝ d8)
    Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +2; Immune undead traits; Vulnerable dispelling
    Speed 15 ft., climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.; staggered (single actions only)
    Melee bite -1 (1d3–3)
    Space 2-1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
    Str 4, Dex 13, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 10
    Base Atk +0; CMB -1; CMD 6 (10 vs. trip)
    Feats None; Skills None
    Organization Solitary or guard pack (2-10)

    Andead are created by the Animate Tiny Animal Undead spell. Unlike animate dead, this spell is an ongoing effect and can be dispelled, which kills the andead but leaves the body intact and able to be re-animated.

    Also, if too many andead are close together, the magics will tend to interfere with each other. If more than 10 andead are within a 10' radius, then some of the spells will be dispelled (choose randomly) until there are no more than 10 left.

    If andead are guarding an area, they will attack anyone who enters, other than the caster who animated them.
    Last edited by kinem; 2013-01-05 at 12:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    This probably shouldn't be a permanent spell for 0 level. I'd recommend that it create a temporary undead creature. 1 hour per caster level and when the spell ends the creature turns into a pile of bones again. Otherwise it seems fine.

    Debby
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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Thanks for the comment, Debi.

    If it's temporary, the undead can't be used as guards. Though in that case I could allow more than one to be controlled at a time, to make up for it. The other main limit is the material component. Note that in PF 0-level spells can be cast at will, so it needs a limiting factor.

    I considered making the previous one die if a new one is animated, but then I realized that could be used for unlimited range instant communication, and I don't want that.

    Still, I don't like the idea of a temporary spell. I can't see wanting to cast a spell like that. If you're a necromancer, you want undead minions. Not just defeating your enemies; any old fighter can do that! Necromancers don't just care about winning fights. They care about having an army of undead minions! Even if it's just one for the moment, or if you have to leave them just as guards and can't give them new orders. If all effects are temporary you might as well be a fighter or play a 4E wizard which is the same thing

    I could make it a first level spell but that would largely prevent sorcerers from taking it and generally discourage adventurers from taking it.

    I am also assuming that a first level spell like this may be available, and I'm not trying to fill the same role with this spell.

    A 0 level spell can also be used with the magical talent trait.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by kinem View Post
    Thanks for the comment, Debi.

    If it's temporary, the undead can't be used as guards.
    First, you can only control one at at time so it would be guard (singular). Second of all (and I can't believe I'm saying this): LOL! Just what would an undead zombie-like rat guard? A piece of cheese?!

    Tiny and smaller Andead would be terrible guards. It has 2 hit points and a PC could step on it and kill it with an unarmed strike. It can run or it can attack but it can't do both. Plus, the only time it does any damage with its attack is if it makes a critical hit.

    At a speed of 15, even the slowest PC will catch up to it quickly. Heck, nevermind a PC squishing one of these, a cat or dog would love these as toys! One bite from a dog destroys these. A dog does 1d4+1 damage with its bite and undead are destroyed at 0 hit points.

    On the other hand, I could see a kobold shaman with this spell using it nightly to guard her dinner from other kobolds. Whether it is useful to the PCs is rather up to them. I always believe that more options are better than fewer options.

    Srsly? This wasn't a joke?

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2012-12-31 at 11:51 AM.
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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    First, you can only control one at at time so it would be guard (singular).
    When uncontrolled they continue to follow their last orders; you just can't give new orders. So you could have a bunch of them guarding a place.

    At the very least, if you find that your pet has been squashed, you know that someone was in that room. If you find a bite on someone you even know who it was.

    An attack does a minimum of 1 point of damage, even if the STR penalty is larger than the die roll. They always do 1 damage on a normal hit. It's just written that way - as is the normal rat - because STR scores can change due to spells and such. If you cast Bull's Strength on it it's up to 1d3-1 damage, giving it a 1 in 3 chance of doing 2 damage instead of 1.

    It's not meant to be a major part of a character's power, but it's something that a novice necromancer would learn.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    See, with destructive retribution, you can generate tiny negative energy fire balls. do able by first level.

    start spamming them, with final orders like "do nothing in this bag," and now you have a bag of nd6 negative energy damage, costing 10gp for each die.
    throw them 10ft up before they fall, and they will probably take enough falling damage to set them all off. Other answer is to put an alchemists fire in the bag, and peg some random thing with the mixture.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    See, with destructive retribution, you can generate tiny negative energy fire balls. do able by first level.
    This is why that spell should be temporary. So you can't have an army of exploding andead. This is why I never let PCs play evil characters.

    Debby
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    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    This is why that spell should be temporary. So you can't have an army of exploding andead. This is why I never let PCs play evil characters.
    Well, they are paying 10gp a pop for them, and using two feats.

    but really, thats why? That is a bad reason to ban evil characters. It might be a reason to ban necromancers, but there is no way Belklar is going to get an army of exploding rodents.
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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Bob, thanks for pointing that out. This was actually for Pathfinder (which has no corpsecrafter feats) but I want it to be compatible with 3.5 too.

    I don't want it to be used that way, so I'll stipulate that corpsecrafter feats don't work with this spell.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    Well, they are paying 10 gp a pop for them, and using two feats.

    but really, thats why? That is a bad reason to ban evil characters. It might be a reason to ban necromancers, but there is no way Belklar is going to get an army of exploding rodents.
    I ban evil characters because PCs are supposed to be heroes. Evil characters always want to take over the world and wreck havoc. Really what is that PC doing with an army of Undead creatures? Well, trying to take over the worldTM of course. It would start with an army of exploding zombie rats and go down hill from there.

    As if 10 gp is hard to come by after one Monty Haul adventure. You've never played some older D&D modules did you?

    Question: why can't Clerics use this spell or anyone with the Death domain? Good choice on changing duration to Permanent so it can be dispelled.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-01 at 01:13 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either.

    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    pff, if you can't make a evil character that isn't a crazy world destroying monster you aren't trying. Much like every good character is not an angel. Kinda limiting either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    As if 10 gp is hard to come by after one Monty Haul adventure. You've never played some older D&D modules did you?

    Debby
    More if you are bleeding levelx10gp every time you want to cast a negative energy fireball, you will notice eventually. especially if you start dumping more damage, as in start throwing 100 critters at something, your burning 1000gp a pop. Yeah it will annihilate a target, but thats a lot of gold to do it.
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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Losing 100 gp or even 1,000 is hardly bleeding gp. Pfft. You've obviously never run through the original Village of Homlett. "The portable treasure in Hommlet, (a village of just 166 persons, not counting children), amounts to 134,324 gp."

    Anyhow, we're getting off topic. While I was looking at this, I decided to convert the spell and critter to 3.5

    Animate Tiny Animal Undead
    Necromancy
    Components V, S, M
    Level: Clr 0, Sor/Wiz 0, Witch 0
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: One Tiny or smaller animal corpse or skeleton
    Duration: Permanent
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    This spell turns the body or bones of a dead Animal of size Tiny or smaller into an undead creature resembling a zombie called an andead. An andead gains the Augmented Subtype, has ˝d8 HD, 2 hp (or 1 hp if smaller than Tiny), no damage reduction, no skills or feats, and is Neutral in alignment, but otherwise follows the rules for the zombie template including Str +2, Dex –2.

    Andead can follow the caster and obey the caster’s commands or can remain in an area and attack any creature entering the place other than the caster. If the caster is disguised or has substantially changed (such as being reincarnated in a different body) it will no longer recognize the caster.

    It remains animated until it is destroyed. If destroyed it cannot be reanimated again. Unlike animate dead, this spell is an ongoing effect and can be dispelled, which kills the andead but leaves the body intact and able to be re-animated.

    Regardless of the number of times this spell is cast, only a single undead from this spell may be controlled at any one time by a single caster. If one is animated using this spell while another is already animated, the original will become uncontrolled, though continuing to follow its last orders (so it won’t attack the caster if left on guard duty).

    It does not count against your HD limit of controlled undead. The undead can be created only from a mostly intact skeleton or corpse, and has the same stats in either case.

    Feats that enhance or add qualities to undead that you animate do not work with this spell.

    Material Component:A black onyx pebble worth 10 gp

    Sample creature

    Andead Rat
    Tiny Undead (Augmented Animal)
    Hit Dice: ˝d8 (2 hp)
    Initiative: +1
    Speed: 15 feet (3 squares) (can’t run), climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.
    Armor Class: 13, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+1 Dex, +2 size)
    BAB/Grapple: +0/-11
    Full Attack: Bite -1 melee (1d3-3) or Slam -1 melee (1d3-3)
    Attack: Bite -1 melee (1d3-3) or Slam -1 melee (1d3-3)
    Special Attacks: None
    Special Qualities: Single actions only
    Saves: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +2
    Abilities: Str 4, Dex 13, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1
    Skills: None
    Feats: None
    Environment: Any land and underground
    Organization: Any
    Challenge Rating: 1/8
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always neutral
    Advancement: None
    Level Adjustment: None

    Single Actions Only (Ex): Andead have poor reflexes and can perform only a single move action or attack action each round. An andead can move up to its speed and attack in the same round, but only if it attempts a charge.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-01 at 06:51 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    Well, they are paying 10gp a pop for them, and using two feats.

    but really, thats why? That is a bad reason to ban evil characters. It might be a reason to ban necromancers, but there is no way Belklar is going to get an army of exploding rodents.
    Not to mention your level one fireball is still only 1d6, why not just go for burning hands (mind you the undead still needs to die, so it still takes an action to use each of them)
    Quote Originally Posted by kinem View Post
    Bob, thanks for pointing that out. This was actually for Pathfinder (which has no corpsecrafter feats) but I want it to be compatible with 3.5 too.

    I don't want it to be used that way, so I'll stipulate that corpsecrafter feats don't work with this spell.
    Sadly there is a much bigger problem.
    OK, I'm a happy little evel five now that the game is starting (that's not too high is it?). Surprisingly enough I have a whole 9000 gold burning a hole in my pocket. well I am a necromancer so naturally I'm gonne try to get some undeads. I start by tossing ~625 gold into getting me a nice pack of skeletal wolves because being Jim the necromancer, a kid who wants to do the right thing, but has always had a sick fascination for drowning and reanimating small animals, I'm naturally going to have animals. As it happens Jim's dad happened to raise dogs, dogs which now belong to Jim and the dark god that encourages his one bad hobby. So now that I'm down to 8375 gold I want more undeads, but I've hit my cap of HD. Luckily Jim has never liked being far from his undeads and thinks mean people that hurt him should die, so he spends his next 8370gold animating 837 little undeads and making a death horde always crawling about him with a nice readied action on all of them to each deal one damage whenever anything hits him. Luckily this is nothing compared to the 5000 damage/round that anyone attacking his 10th level elder brother would take

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    You wouldn't have that level of control over them. You could say "follow me and attack anyone who attacks me" and then it would not follow you, because it obeys only the last order, the one after the 'and'. And of course you can only give a new order to the most recently animated one.

    It could be a problem though to have too many guard an area. Any suggestions?
    Last edited by kinem; 2013-01-02 at 01:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Maybe you could treat them as a swarm (A swarm is technically 300 Tiny creatures).

    You can only control one andead at a time, how does this work with Command Undead in Pathfinder? It strike me that you wouldn't be able to command the andead as normal undeaad and perhaps you you'd have to command each one separately. That would take a lot of rounds to do. I recommend that since each andead is 1/8th of a HD, you could command 8 per HD.

    In 3.5: "T"he cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level."

    At 5th level, the most andead that you can command is 40. Theoretically, you'd have to be 8th level before you could command 300 of them.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-02 at 02:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    How about being able to command one/CL and them lasting forever, and extras being uncommanded in the usual way in which they try to bite your face off. your level one gets a cool trick to make one, and the following out the last order is constructs, not undeads anyways.

    And yeah I know there are a few drawbacks, but to give a more realistic version of the above it would be "protect", and to simplify matters they would probably be attached as globs onto each of the 25 wolves so that the caster could duck out of sight without being a carpet of rats.

    "If people are creatures of habit, and their behavior an intricate pattern, then madness might be defined as a pattern so complex or different from your own that you fail to comprehend it."

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by drack View Post
    Luckily Jim has never liked being far from his undeads and thinks mean people that hurt him should die, so he spends his next 8370 gold animating 837 little undeads and making a death horde always crawling about him with a nice readied action on all of them to each deal one damage whenever anything hits him. Luckily this is nothing compared to the 5000 damage/round that anyone attacking his 10th level elder brother would take
    You do realize it takes you 23 hours to animate 837 if you did absolutely nothing else. Since it only takes two hit points of damage to kill one, what happens if one of 'em gets killed prematurely such as it gets bit by an animal. Cuz dogs love bones and aren't smart enough not to play with an animated rat skeleton. Chomp. If you are in the thick of it, you go down with them....

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either.

    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    What's a day or two for hundreds of undeads? similarly that's jut one more dog corpse to stash or later, and at the cost of one rat...

    "If people are creatures of habit, and their behavior an intricate pattern, then madness might be defined as a pattern so complex or different from your own that you fail to comprehend it."

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    I think I figured out what I should do: Make a short list of commands, which are the only ones they can follow. Ex. Guard this place; go there; follow me; guard me here (won't follow); attack him.

    I should also figure the swarm statistics and see how that works out.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    It's not just one day. It's one day of every round doing it. No sleep either. No eating. No anything else. So, I doubt you'd ever really get the maximum number because you'd have assume nothing happened to any of them. So if your last command is to guard something and attack, wouldn't ones you lost control over attack the others? That would be amusing to say the least.

    Debby
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    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    So send those hundreds to defend a place and run through them as you retreat. It's a touch silly either way as long as you can get hundreds.
    Edit: yeah, as I said a day or two. one if you don't need sleep, two if you do.
    Last edited by drack; 2013-01-02 at 03:36 PM.

    "If people are creatures of habit, and their behavior an intricate pattern, then madness might be defined as a pattern so complex or different from your own that you fail to comprehend it."

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Making a swarm is fairly simple just follow the Swarm directions.

    See here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubty...m#swarmSubtype.

    I'm no sure how it differs from Pathfinder.

    A normal rat swarm has 4 HD.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-02 at 03:55 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Yet there is a difference between a swarm (commanded as a whole, and when damaged enough breaks up and you loose control) and a swarm (controlled individually attacking as hundreds of creatures perhaps using aid another mechanics to boost attacks, and fighting until they have made an attack to destroy every last rat)

    "If people are creatures of habit, and their behavior an intricate pattern, then madness might be defined as a pattern so complex or different from your own that you fail to comprehend it."

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    I made the following changes:

    The andead will obey the caster's commands but there are only a small number of commands that the andead is able to understand and obey:

    Guard this place (attack all but me who enter); go there; follow me; guard me here (attack any who attack me; the andead won't follow and guard under the same command); attack that creature.

    Newly created andead by the same caster will not draw attacks by existing andead who are set to guard a place.

    It only obeys the last command given.

    Also, if too many andead are close together, the magics will tend to interfere with each other. If more than 10 andead are within a 10' radius, then some of the spells will be dispelled (choose randomly) until there are no more than 10 left.
    Last edited by kinem; 2013-01-02 at 08:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Sounds better, though being as accustomed to powergamers as I am I'd still suggest capping the max someone can have following their commands, or have them defend against the caster too if they get too many. After all this just means that they nee to space them out, not that they can't keep a thousand in one tunnel.

    "If people are creatures of habit, and their behavior an intricate pattern, then madness might be defined as a pattern so complex or different from your own that you fail to comprehend it."

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    If they randomly dispell,you can't make a swarm (you need 300 not 10)

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either.

    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.

    I've got a red pen and I'm not afraid to use it.

    my creations

    Thanks Gurgleflep for my new avatar!

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    so long as you release them and set them to guard they're no longer sustained by the spell, they just become normal undeads.

    "If people are creatures of habit, and their behavior an intricate pattern, then madness might be defined as a pattern so complex or different from your own that you fail to comprehend it."

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    This is why you cannot have a swarm of them: "Also, if too many andead are close together, the magics will tend to interfere with each other. If more than 10 andead are within a 10' radius, then some of the spells will be dispelled (choose randomly) until there are no more than 10 left."

    A swarm is treated as a single creature and takes up one square so they'd be in too close proximity to maintain as a swarm since there would only be 10 left in the square as the other randomly dispelled and became dead not undead.

    "Unlike animate dead, this spell is an ongoing effect and can be dispelled, which kills the andead but leaves the body intact and able to be re-animated."

    A dispelled andead is a dead lifeless creature though you could animate it again.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-03 at 08:54 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either.

    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.

    I've got a red pen and I'm not afraid to use it.

    my creations

    Thanks Gurgleflep for my new avatar!

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    It seems you mistook my meaning in the last one
    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    This is why you cannot have a swarm of them: "Also, if too many andead are close together, the magics will tend to interfere with each other. If more than 10 andead are within a 10' radius, then some of the spells will be dispelled (choose randomly) until there are no more than 10 left."Ys that was added after the mention of the warm to which I mentioned that you could still have that many undeads in a tunnel and till pull the same stuff with them...

    A swarm is treated as a single creature and takes up one square so they'd be in too close proximity to maintain as a swarm since there would only be 10 left in the square as the other randomly dispelled and became dead not undead.

    "Unlike animate dead, this spell is an ongoing effect and can be dispelled, which kills the andead but leaves the body intact and able to be re-animated." Yes, and as soon as you make the second, the first is no longer subject to the ongoing effect, but instead a normal uncontrolled undead, meaning it's not subject to dispellng anymore

    A dispelled andead is a dead lifeless creature though you could animate it again.

    Debby

    "If people are creatures of habit, and their behavior an intricate pattern, then madness might be defined as a pattern so complex or different from your own that you fail to comprehend it."

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    Default Re: Animate Tiny Animal Undead [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    If they randomly dispell,you can't make a swarm (you need 300 not 10)

    Debby
    That's right. I decided against the swarm idea; too powerful for the spell.

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