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    Default Timeless Ring (Item)

    Timeless Ring
    The wearer of a timeless ring does not age. Their body revitalizes, regenerating back to that of a young adult and remaining there for as long as the ring be worn. As their body is reverted to a youthful state, they do not gain penalties for aging. Neither, however, do they gain benefits. Of course this means they do not die of old age, a young adult dying of old age would be preposterous.
    To benefit from the timeless ring it must be worn for one week, after which they degenerate their age by one year per week until the first month, when they degenerate ten years per week until young adult or first year has passed, when they degenerate one hundred years per week until young adult.
    If they are separated from the ring, they start aging again from young adult as normal.
    If a creature that is not yet young adult wears the ring, they will be aged until they are young adult before ceasing and preventing age as normal.
    Strong evocation (if miracle is used); CL 20th; Forge Ring, wish or miracle; Price 97,950 gp; Cost 11,475 gp + 15,918 XP.
    Last edited by Cipher Stars; 2013-01-08 at 12:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Does it reverse the physical ability score penalties of aging? If not, then it's probably greatly overpriced, given that it's mostly cosmetic.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Some things you'll need to clarify:

    Does this still produce the benefits and penalties of aging? Does it negate the penalties while keeping the benefits intact (like the Monk Class Feature, for example)? Or does it negate both the benefits and penalties?

    Does it prevent death by old age, or is it more like the Monk Class Feature where you still die when it's 'your time'?

    How long does it take for the ring to take effect? Is it instantaneous, or does it require a period of 'attunement' before it begins to provide its effect?

    What happens when the ring is taken off? Does the character's age immediately reassert itself, is it a slow process or do they begin aging from Young Adult as normal?

    What happens when the ring is worn by someone who is younger than a Young Adult? Would a 6-year-old given the ring age rapidly to Young Adult, or would they just be unaffected?

    The answers to the above will seriously impact how valuable this item is.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV View Post
    Does this still produce the benefits and penalties of aging? Does it negate the penalties while keeping the benefits intact (like the Monk Class Feature, for example)? Or does it negate both the benefits and penalties?
    No penalties or benefits.

    Does it prevent death by old age, or is it more like the Monk Class Feature where you still die when it's 'your time'?
    Of course it does. The Monk's ability is pathetic. *Is annoyed with those abilities that you get at such high levels yet don't really do anything*

    How long does it take for the ring to take effect? Is it instantaneous, or does it require a period of 'attunement' before it begins to provide its effect?
    Attunement.

    What happens when the ring is taken off? Does the character's age immediately reassert itself, is it a slow process or do they begin aging from Young Adult as normal?
    Begin aging from Young Adult.

    What happens when the ring is worn by someone who is younger than a Young Adult? Would a 6-year-old given the ring age rapidly to Young Adult, or would they just be unaffected?
    No effect, though perhaps rapid aging to Young Adult would make for interesting story/backgrounds for a character/NPC.

    The answers to the above will seriously impact how valuable this item is.


    So what would the value be then? It shouldn't be too much I hope, it has little actual use... though perhaps if it didn't effect your magic ring total. (It's way silly you can only have two anyway...) (Will be adding the above once a better price is suggested to edit all at once)
    Last edited by Cipher Stars; 2013-01-05 at 05:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    If it extends your life forever? Very, VERY expensive, probably artifact level magic. Otherwise why doesn't EVERYONE with any money have one of these? In terms of game mechanics it isn't worth much, but it's campaign-works effects should dictate an outrageous price, or a non-mortal origin.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2013-01-05 at 06:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    If it extends your life forever? Very, VERY expensive, probably artifact level magic. Otherwise why doesn't EVERYONE with any money have one of these? In terms of game mechanics it isn't worth much, but it's campaign-works effects should dictate an outrageous price, or a non-mortal origin.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    So what would the value be then? It shouldn't be too much I hope, it has little actual use... though perhaps if it didn't effect your magic ring total. (It's way silly you can only have two anyway...) (Will be adding the above once a better price is suggested to edit all at once)
    Roughly as much as a large kingdom. Maybe a bit more valuable than that. Ten million GP? 20 maybe?

    Let me put it this way. Someone wears the ring for a week, they immediately reverse age to about 20 or so and get another 80 years of natural lifespan, plus lose all the bad things that come with old age. As a one-time effect, people would pay their entire life savings for that on it's own. Just to have the ring for a week, a noble would pay tens of thousands of GP. And that's all you need, the ring for a week once every twenty or thirty years, to achieve immortality. One ring as you've described it would be considered an artefact of gravest significance, the kind of thing that Empires fight wars over and are worth far more than any king's ransom. A campaign setting where they're as common as +3 swords? Is one where aging is just not a thing. Nobody in such a world has any excuse for looking a day over 40, ever. Every great hero will live until someone manages to kill him. Every sufficiently paranoid tyrant will reign for centuries. If that's what you want, cool. If not, well...
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Magic items that duplicate spells can't do more than that. Restoration doesn't prevent aging so I don't think that is the correct spell to use. Restoration removes negative levels. You should probably base it off true resurrection.

    The cost is Spell level 9 caster level 17 which is the lowest level you can be to cast spell 2,000 gp for a continuous item x 1.5 since the spell takes 10 minutes for total of 459,000 gp but you get a 30% reduction if you must be a cleric to make this ring so 459,000 - 137,700 plus the 25,000 gp diamond needed to cast the spell in the first place. Total cost 345,300 gp.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-05 at 07:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    I'd just go with Kissed by the Ages (Dragon 354) to create a ring that confers the Endless quality.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    If a Venerable creature put this on, would they lose the age bonus to mental scores?
    What would happen if a dragon wore one of these?
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andion Isurand View Post
    I'd just go with Kissed by the Ages (Dragon 354) to create a ring that confers the Endless quality.
    That spell would far more costly because it has a 5,000 xp cost to cast the spell. That adds 5,000 xp X 50 X5 gp to the cost or 1,250,000 gp. Ouch!

    It is a 9th level spell so the minimum caster level is 17 (Sor/Wiz) x 2,000 gp for continuous effect x 1/2 because it take an hour to cast = 153,000 gp plus 1,250,000 gp for a whopping total cost 1,556,000 gp.

    You'd be better off with using true resurrection as the basis of the spell since that would only cost 345,300 gp. It's almost 1/5th the cost.

    A ring that confers endless youth is going to be expensive.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-05 at 08:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Within a game, anything above a trivial cost is overpriced, as Grod_The_Giant said.
    Within a world, anything below an artifact (preferably a major artifact) is underpriced, because it removes the one truly irreversible/unavoidable-without-extreme-measures means of a character's career ending.

    As a practical-use item, it's horribly designed. It has a lot of potential as the Macguffin that people are fighting over, though.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2013-01-05 at 08:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    I'm confused. In what way is the almost 7000 pounds of gold dictated by Debi's 345,000 GP price not insanely expensive? (That's $166,631,191 in today's market.) High or even upper mid level D&D isn't fantasy as it appears anywhere except superhero comics and certain animes, agelessness really isn't that huge a deal in that environment, no need to charge through the nose for it.(Especially when the ring is of greater mechanical benefit to fighter types and others who really have more need of nice things.)

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    I'm confused. In what way is the almost 7000 pounds of gold dictated by Debi's 345,000 GP price not insanely expensive? (That's $166,631,191 in today's market.) High or even upper mid level D&D isn't fantasy as it appears anywhere except superhero comics and certain animes, agelessness really isn't that huge a deal in that environment, no need to charge through the nose for it.(Especially when the ring is of greater mechanical benefit to fighter types and others who really have more need of nice things.)
    Let me ask you a question: Do you think that there is a single person on this entire planet that could afford it that wouldn't pay ten billion dollars for the right to make himself and everyone he really cares to eternally youthful with no drawbacks whatsoever? We're talking about the sort of value that would bring nations crashing to their knees and completely redefine the meaning of the word "desirable".

    Mechanically, the item is no big deal. The stat benefits are tiny, and any campaign where immortality would be useful would of necessity provide it. In terms of what it does to a setting, though, it needs to be near-unique or unfathomably difficult to create. Because, like I said, a world where such rings are no more difficult to obtain than a +3 sword is a world where everyone of importance is immortal.
    Last edited by DaedalusMkV; 2013-01-05 at 09:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    As a practical-use item, it's horribly designed. It has a lot of potential as the Macguffin that people are fighting over, though.
    What does being ageless have to do with horribly designed as a practical use item? It's agelessness. It's not supposed to be for practical use.


    Note; Agelessness. Agelessness is not Immortality. I dislike it when Immortality is used to describe Agelessness.

    No benefits or penalties from aging, This adds nothing to your mechanics. You have no benefit other than roleplaying a more interesting character/saying you're older than you look, or playing a character you loved in a new campaign after the old, when that character normally would have died out.

    *shrug* or playing a clueless six year old who looks twenty just trying to survive with a sword in hand.


    I think it's cost as is is alright. Perhaps. I totally just copied it from Ring of three Wishes, I'm sure it's fine.
    The cost isn't important anyway, the point is for it to exist. If a DM wants to give it to a person, they'll give it to a person. If a DM lets a character have one for character creation, they'll have it.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Look at it this way: this is an item which can only be made by a 20th level character, basically a demigod in their own right. Add to that that what actually goes into making a magic item is entirely unspecified, you could be talking about 97,950 gold worth of innocent sacrifices as easily as you could about magic gems or whatever. Furthermore it takes this Nigh-almighty Wizard over 3 months of constant work to make the thing.

    The thing is exactly as obtainable as it needs to be. If it's just randomly showing up in magic-marts with no explanation then clearly the DM is making a world wherein immortality is really no big deal. If it's actually as hard to get your hands on as you'd expect something hand made by one of the most powerful beings to have ever lived would be then it'll be valuable regardless of its game-mechanical market price.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    agelessness really isn't that huge a deal in that environment
    Of course it is; that's why powerful evil mages (and clerics) turn themselves into liches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    What does being ageless have to do with horribly designed as a practical use item?
    If it's not meant for practical adventuring use but rather than for use in the wider world, then anything easily attainable before mid-epic levels at the earliest is overpowered, and I suspect anything easily attainable period would be overpowered.

    With this item available for mere cash, the most powerful character alive today is probably the most powerful character to ever exist since the item was developed, since he won't die of old age and you can be brought back from nearly anything else.

    The cost isn't important anyway, the point is for it to exist. If a DM wants to give it to a person, they'll give it to a person. If a DM lets a character have one for character creation, they'll have it.
    That sounds like you might want to make it a minor artifact, so that it's exclusively under DM control rather than just being bought or made.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2013-01-05 at 09:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    I totally just copied it from Ring of three Wishes, I'm sure it's fine.
    A ring of three wishes was updated: it's market price in MIC is 97,950. Its cost to create should be half that. Also, a ring that can be used 3 times is far cheaper than a ring with a continuous effect.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Of course it is; that's why powerful evil mages (and clerics) turn themselves into liches.
    Becoming a necropolitan is cheap and easy. Buying scrolls of contingency and reincarnate is cheap and slightly less easy. Becoming an elan is free and undefined in difficulty. Dying and having a friend plane shift over to your afterlife of choice to pick you up is free and easy. It's really not the big deal you're making it out to be.

    EDIT: An automatically resetting reincarnate trap only has a market price of 228,000 GP, and it could provide infinite youth to billions upon billions of people.
    Last edited by Saidoro; 2013-01-05 at 10:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    An automatically resetting reincarnate trap only has a market price of 228,000 GP, and it could provide infinite youth to billions upon billions of people.
    How do you figure that. It would just reincarnate them and then they have to take a different form. Who wants to come back as a bugbear? To get your original form back requires a wish spell. Casting the spell is different from using a spell to power a magic item. The ring doesn't actually cast reincarnation but the trap would.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-05 at 10:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    Dying and having a friend plane shift over to your afterlife of choice to pick you up is free and easy.
    A dead but resurrectable creature changes form entirely, becoming a petitioner with lousy HD, hardly any skills, next to no memory of their past life, and no ability to use any of their previous class features. Plane shifting that away? You're welcome to the useless dead weight. It's only raise dead and the like that can reconstruct a useful PC.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    How do you figure that. It would just reincarnate them and then they have to take a different form. Who wants to come back as a bugbear? To get your original form back requires a wish spell. Casting the spell is different from using a spell to power a magic item. The ring doesn't actually cast reincarnation but the trap would.
    Reincarnate creates "an entirely new young adult body" for the target, once someone is nearing their maximum age they can quite easily kill themselves and have their body dumped on the reincarnation assembly line to become young again.
    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    A dead but resurrectable creature changes form entirely, becoming a petitioner with lousy HD, hardly any skills, next to no memory of their past life, and no ability to use any of their previous class features. Plane shifting that away? You're welcome to the useless dead weight. It's only raise dead and the like that can reconstruct a useful PC.
    The rules on when and how you become a petitioner are ambiguous, as is what happens to the soul after death. Still, I'll concede the point and make the assumption that all dead PCs immediately become petitioners, I don't really need that specific example for my overall argument to be valid anyway and I'd rather not be bogged down by tangential arguments.
    Last edited by Saidoro; 2013-01-05 at 11:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    Note; Agelessness. Agelessness is not Immortality. I dislike it when Immortality is used to describe Agelessness.
    I don't think anyone is saying it IS immortality. But, by your own admission earlier, it does prevent you from dying from old age.

    I think it's cost as is is alright. Perhaps. I totally just copied it from Ring of three Wishes, I'm sure it's fine.
    The cost isn't important anyway, the point is for it to exist. If a DM wants to give it to a person, they'll give it to a person. If a DM lets a character have one for character creation, they'll have it.
    DM edict is not really an excuse for poor design: the ability you have here is fine mechanically, but it's not good for an RPG, because it has huge non-mechanical impact. It would make an incredibly good artifact, but it does not make a good normal item, especially at low cost.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html

    Thought Xycon's speech was relevant

    This would make quite an interesting artifact (lesser artifact maybe). On one hand it grants eternal youth, on the other it attracts attention from those who want the powers for itself, and will likely actually shorten the wearer's life.

    On one hand it can grant its benefits to hundreds of individuals, but if its perceived value is so great, the risk of someone absconding with it (and the need for it to be worn for a whole week to be effective) would create quite a (moral/financial) dilemma.

    Combined with a ring of sustenance and a healing trap, it would make for a nasty torture device.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    The drawback to using reincarnate is that you might become a different creature altogether and the expense is immense.

    If you don't mind 3rd party material, Tide of Years by Penumbra Press has the Time Domain. The Time Domain has been put out as a full PDF here: http://www.atlas-games.com/pdf_stora...ime_domain.pdf

    I think the wellspring of youth spell would work for the reversal of aging process in the ring.

    Since the earliest you could cast this spell is if you had the Time Domain let's factor that in. 7th level spell X CL 13 x 2000 for continuous use - 30% caster must be a Cleric with the Time Domain plus 100 gp of diamond dust (100 x 50)

    7x13x2000 = 182,0000 - 54,600 = 127,400 + 5,000 = grand total: 132,400 gp.





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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-06 at 08:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    I wasn't suggesting using reincarnate to price the ring, I was offering it as a standard of comparison to prove that this thing really doesn't need to have a crazy high price. The pricing tables in the DMG are only guidelines anyway, not hard and fast rules by any means and I have no problem with the price presented in the first post.

    The reason I don't think it should be an artifact is because that takes it out of the player's hands and puts it into the DM's. If a player's concept involves immortality they should have ways of accomplishing that without resorting to DM fiat.

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    I wasn't suggesting using reincarnate to price the ring, I was offering it as a standard of comparison to prove that this thing really doesn't need to have a crazy high price. The pricing tables in the DMG are only guidelines anyway, not hard and fast rules by any means and I have no problem with the price presented in the first post.

    The reason I don't think it should be an artifact is because that takes it out of the player's hands and puts it into the DM's. If a player's concept involves immortality they should have ways of accomplishing that without resorting to DM fiat.
    Guidelines yes, but if you figure out the price you can get a good idea if you're doing it right. A ring that effectively lets you live forever is certainly worth a lot more than a ring of three wishes. It might not feel that way as a player but put it in a campaign and see which baddie wants it the most. Evil necromancers who don't want to become liches for example.

    Most people just ignore aging the way they ignore encumbrance. You can handwave all you like but in a standard game, it matters. I see a lot of homebrews that just gloss over things that should otherwise be important: balance is a big one. Everyone wants bigger, faster, better more and at the cheapest price. It's the same in real life. I don't blame anyone for this. I just think that sometimes, it absolutely has to stated that breaking the rule shouldn't be done as lightly as most homebrewers think. It leads to Monty Haul at best and Munchkinism at worst. That doesn't mean it isn't creative. It just means you're excessive and likely to overestimate how good you are.

    Hey, I believe in giving people what they want as long as the request is reasonable. Giving someone the vigor of youth is fine, giving them immortality is not.

    IMNSHO, this is a fairer version of the ring, which would appeal to the vain more than to the power hungry. What the power hungry really want is a magic item that lets them look young, lets them keep all the benefits of aging, lets them lose all the penalties of aging, and lets them live forever. An item that can do all that should be a Major Artifact not a ring.

    Timeless Ring
    The wearer of a timeless ring must be no less than Middle Age for the ring to function. The wearer's body reverts to its Young Adult stage. The wearer loses whatever bonuses or penalties he or she gained from the natural aging process but also gains no further benefits and penalties for aging. The ring must be worn at all times or the aging process immediately catches up to the wearer, though it can be started anew by placing the ring back on the wearer's finger.

    Aura Strong Conjuration (Healing)[Time], CL 17; Forge Ring, wellspring of youth, Caster must be a Cleric with the Time Domain, Cost 132,400 gp Price to Create 66,200 gp and 5,296 XP

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-01-08 at 01:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    The ring does not grant immortality and a wearer who exceeds his or her maximum age limit still dies of old age
    [insert polite "no" here]



    That mindset is the most retarded thing in the whole of creation, at least in D&D and Pathfinder's creation.
    ^- I don't direct that at you, I direct that at the method of thinking that dying of old age when you don't age is worth two pints of guano.
    I wouldn't buy that ring for more than 1,000 gold. Far from worth it's cost.

    And again, I kindly ask anyone who posts at least in this topic to never refer to agelessness as immortality. They are not one in the same.
    Last edited by Cipher Stars; 2014-08-15 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Courtesy correction

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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    That mindset is the most retarded thing in the whole of creation,
    *snip*
    At least we're all still being friendly here.

    The point, I think, is that most of us are talking at cross purposes.

    Most of the people who have posted here feel that such an item, obtainable at the cost of a mere 8% of the WBL of a 20th level character, is overpowered, and ought to be granted at the discretion of the DM. I agree. The OP does not. The distinction comes when we compare the (admittedly minor) mechanical effects on a Player Character versus the effects the existence of such items would have on the gaming world at large. This is an important distinction to keep in mind.

    While the lack of physical bonuses and mental penalties the ring removes are minor, the more significant issue is the fact that, a thousand years from first acquiring the ring, the PC will have had a thousand years to grow his or her power.

    Agelessness is, in general, a Big Deal. The OP doesn't (seem to) run his games that way, so in that context (only,) I feel the ring as first suggested is fine, but I would not ever allow such a ring into one of my games.
    Last edited by Jyton; 2013-01-06 at 11:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Timeless Ring (Item)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jyton View Post
    At least we're all still being friendly here.
    Snipping the part that states I wasn't directing that at anyone here makes it sound mean >,..,>
    While the lack of physical bonuses and mental penalties the ring removes are minor, the more significant issue is the fact that, a thousand years from first acquiring the ring, the PC will have had a thousand years to grow his or her power.
    Except that a level one or six or sixteen character is always a level one or six or sixteen character no matter how old they are.

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