Best non core classes

[chomskola]

The title pretty much speaks for itself, have at it!

[Yuki Akuma]

Artificer, Archivist, Wu Jen and Erudite.

Well, that was easy.

[GreenSerpent]

Sha'ir and Death Master as well.

[Rhaegar14]

An important question here is such; how do you qualify best? Most powerful? Best balanced? Most interesting/flavorful?

[Darrin]

I'd like to think "best" means the rules did not adequately cover this concept before. In that sense:

Warlock. We needed an at-will blaster, and the other invocations cover a lot of "superhero" concepts that were difficult or impossible to do before.

Duskblade. We've seen many, many attempts to do a hybrid warrior/spellcaster, and they usually suck. Duskblade isn't perfect, but it's pretty close to a "Gish in a can", and works pretty well out of the box without too many headaches.

Unarmed Swordsage. It's Monk done right, and the maneuver system is flexible enough to cover almost all the wuxia/ninja/Kung Fu action movie tropes.

[docnessuno]

Warlock, Duskblade, Dread necromancer, Beguiller, Artificer, Warblade, Swordsage.

[Rhaegar14]

Warlock, Duskblade, Dread necromancer, Beguiller, Artificer, Warblade, Swordsage.

If I may ask, why do you include the other two ToB classes, but exclude Crusader? Player's Handbook Paladin is woefully bad for a number of reasons, and from a fluff standpoint there are a lot of character concepts (a divine warrior that serves any god that's not Lawful or Neutral Good) that it just doesn't cover.

[bobthe6th]

Warlock. We needed an at-will blaster, and the other invocations cover a lot of "superhero" concepts that were difficult or impossible to do before.

I'd argue that the dragon heart adept does this better... and has the same issue as a lot of simaler classes, it is dealing meh damage.

though I do like the whole idea of invocation using classes.

Unarmed Swordsage. It's Monk done right, and the maneuver system is flexible enough to cover almost all the wuxia/ninja/Kung Fu action movie tropes.

I would simalerly say Warblade, you could have a good mid level fighter


My personal favorite is Psionic warrior. Suddenly, you have a half caster that had RELIVENT CASTING AT ALL LEVELS! A quick dip gets you some cool spells, and a full 20 hands out some heavy casting.

[Axier]

Factotum. Can't do everything well, but can do a lot often.

Beguiler is an excelent class, and it pairs well with wizard for Ultimate Magus fun.

Wu Jen, because I like it as a wizard replacer.

Dread Necromancer, because lol skeletons en masse.

Now I want to make a non-core class campagin without ToB or EPH classes, only CP Psionic Classes...

[chomskola]

Id like every one to deceide best on their own terms, what I had in mind personally, was the classes that compare most favourably with the core classes.

[Alaspada89]

Artificer:you can do anything!Anything!
Sha'ir,but there's not a FAQ or errata that explains how many things work.

[Gigas Breaker]

I love Psychic Warrior and the Tome of Battle classes.

[Gavinfoxx]

Most powerful non core classes:

Archivist
Artificer
Erudite (esp. Spell to Power variant)

[Xenogears]

My favorite is probably the DragonFire Adept for flavor, usefulness, and ease of use.

[Vaz]

Arcane Swordsage is possibly the most powerful.

Shadowcaster is one of my favourite classes otherwise, it's just a shame there's no more support.

[Darius Kane]

The Tier System can answer that for me.

[White_Drake]

Psychic Rogue, Beguiler, Warlock, Swordsage. Can we use PF and PrCs?

[qwertyu63]

If you mean "Most powerful", then Archivist or Artificer (thank you other posters, for not making me try to spell those.)

If you mean "Must fun to play", then my vote is for the Factotum.

[Vrakk]

Ninja. Who doesn't want to be a ninja?

[Sacrieur]

Truenamer.

Right guys? Guys...

[subject42]

No love for the Binder?

If you can get past the horrible layout in the vestige section, they're a blast to play.

[Flickerdart]

Totemist and Incarnate, of course! Who doesn't want to slay their enemies using the colour blue?

[subject42]

Totemist and Incarnate, of course! Who doesn't want to slay their enemies using the colour blue?

Incarnum always freaked me out. After reading the blurb about it being composed of the souls of the unborn, I forever after pictured Incarnum abilities as being fueled by ground-up fetuses.

I think the next three major villains I introduced were Incarnum users because of that.

[docnessuno]

If I may ask, why do you include the other two ToB classes, but exclude Crusader? Player's Handbook Paladin is woefully bad for a number of reasons, and from a fluff standpoint there are a lot of character concepts (a divine warrior that serves any god that's not Lawful or Neutral Good) that it just doesn't cover.

Because, while overall i like the crusader and used it in numerous builds, i feel the "divine" theme is not represented enough by the class. Also he is a bit overshadowed by the warblade.

[TopCheese]

Totemist!

Who doesn't want to give the Big T a hug?

Binder!

Best fluff in the game...Ever... (The Vestige's fluff is amaaaazing).

ToB!

Best unofficial official update and playtest all rolled into one! Great classes to play when you don't want to be a mage but you don't want to suck.

Samurai!

Because when you say you took this class everyone will pity you until they realize you are actually a Fighter/Samurai/Warblade.

[BowStreetRunner]

I actually really like the way the Scout was made. It seems to get all the right abilities for a stealthy character

• 8 + INT skill points to cover the cost of Hide & Move Silently and all of the other skills you need.
• trackless step so others can't find you by just following your trail
• camouflage to hide without cover or concealment
• hide in plain sight to hide while being observed
• fast movement so that when you move at half-speed while sneaking you aren't crawling along like a snail
• flawless stride so that when you move at half-speed while sneaking you aren't reduced to one-quarter speed for every patch of undergrowth or pile of rubble in your way

Not to mention they get some of the good defensive abilities like uncanny dodge, evasion, and free movement which are really helpful when you aren't tanking around in heavy armor.

[Gnome Alone]

Re: power, I'd say you're not gonna get much stronger than Wiz/Cleric/Druid anyway, so my vote goes to the classes that allow representing the concepts the other core classes suck at: the ToB ones and Factotum, plus Beguiler and Binder cuz they so cool.

[DarkEternal]

Because, while overall i like the crusader and used it in numerous builds, i feel the "divine" theme is not represented enough by the class. Also he is a bit overshadowed by the warblade.

All three ToB classes are supposedly on the same tier of power. I also think that the crusader, while having access to the least amount of schools, has Devoted Spirit, that might arguably be the best one out of the lot. I agree that he is not as strict as the paladin, nor does he rely on the "divine" aspect as such, which can make the "knight" part of playing him up to the player since he has no real restraints, but I rather like him in execution, and class abilities.

[subject42]

All three ToB classes are supposedly on the same tier of power. I also think that the crusader, while having access to the least amount of schools, has Devoted Spirit, that might arguably be the best one out of the lot. I agree that he is not as strict as the paladin, nor does he rely on the "divine" aspect as such, which can make the "knight" part of playing him up to the player since he has no real restraints, but I rather like him in execution, and class abilities.

I think I'd prefer the crusader more if his stance progression weren't so screwy. That one mechanical foible is why I leave him off the "best" list; he has to languish in simply "good".

[DarkEternal]

What exactly is "screwy" about it? I read that many times and I don't understand how it is different than the other two. Does he get them too slow or something? Or are the stances considered lacking themselves considering he gets them sooner than the other classes, so he has less choices what to take? He gets his stances sooner than warblade(3 stances by level 8 compared to 3 by warblade on level 10).