The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    I've done two big fighter fixes before-- this one and this one. The first had a lot of good mundane-fighter things, but suffered terminal number creep, and the second... was good, and did a lot of things I liked, but wound up getting a bit over-complicated, to the point that I might as well have just stuck with ToB. Both had parts I liked, and both had parts I didn't. So why not combine 'em?

    The Fighter

    Alignment: Any.
    Hit Die: d10.

    Class Skills: The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Knowledge (History), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ×4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

    {table=head]Level |Base Attack |Fort |Ref |Will |Special|Bonus Feats|Talent Pool
    1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Aspect, Talent Pool, First in the Fight||1d4
    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Veteran of a Thousand Wars|1|1d4
    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Armor Mastery, Aspect Ability||2d4
    4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|The Bigger They Are…, Grit|2|2d4
    5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Battle Style||3d6
    6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Aspect Ability|3|3d6
    7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Parry||4d6
    8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Adaptive Style, Masterstroke|4|4d6
    9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Aspect Ability||5d6
    10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Extended Style|5|5d8
    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Storm of Steel||6d8
    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|…The Harder They Fall, Aspect Ability|6|6d8
    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Flow of Battle||7d8
    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Counterattack|7|7d8
    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Battle Master, Aspect Ability||8d10
    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Freeform Style (=uncapped Rapid Inspiration)|8|8d10
    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Battle Meditation, True Grit||9d10
    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Aspect Ability|9|9d10
    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|Moment of Endless War||10d10
    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Perfect Warrior|10|10d12[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

    Aspect (Ex): At first level, a fighter selects one of two Aspects: Tactician or Leader, gaining the following benefits:

    {table=head]|Adept|Leader |Tactician
    Key Ability|Wisdom|Charisma|Intelligence
    New Skills|Autohypnosis, Sense Motive, Survival|Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Perform (Weapon Drill), Sense Motive|Appraise, Knowledge (all), Martial Lore, Speak Language
    Bonus Feat|Eyes in the Back of Your Head (Complete Warrior)|Battlefield Inspiration (Miniatures Handbook)|Able Learner (Races of Destiny)[/table]

    Talent Pool (Ex): At the beginning of every encounter (or scene, for more roleplay-heavy games), a fighter is granted access to a pool of bonus dice, known as his Talent Pool. At first level, this pool consists of only one d4, but it increases by one dice every odd-numbered level. In addition, at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, the size of the dice increases by one step-- d6s at 5th level, d8s and 10th, and so on.

    At any point in the game, a fighter may expend die from his talent pool to gain a bonus to certain checks. He rolls each expended die and adds the result to his check. He may not expend more dice on a single check than his Aspect's key ability modifier. He must expend dice before rolling the original check.

    When not in combat, expended dice are regenerated at the rate of one die every (10-key ability modifier) minutes, to a maximum of one per minute. In addition, at the beginning of each combat encounter— when initiative is rolled— the fighter recovers all expended dice.

    Talent Dice may be expended to benefit any attack roll, damage roll, saving throw, physical ability check (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), or physical skill check (one based on the aforementioned abilities). In addition:
    • Adepts may expend dice to gain a bonus on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skills.
    • Leaders may expend dice to gain a bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skills.
    • Tacticians may expend dice to gain a bonus on Intelligence checks and Intelligence-based skills.


    First in the Fight (Ex): A fighter adds his key ability and one half his fighter level to initiative rolls.

    Veteran of a Thousand Wars (Ex): Starting at second level, a fighter may make a special knowledge check with a bonus equal to his fighter level + his key ability modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information related to wars and combat— generals, historical battles, military technology, and so on. This ability functions in the same manner as Bardic Knowledge.

    Bonus Feats: At second level, and every subsequent even-numbered level, a fighter gains a single bonus feat, drawn from the list of fighter bonus feats. Once per day, a fighter may take one of the three options:

    A fighter may take one hour to train with an ally. At the end of the duration, he gains the benefit of a number of his ally's feats equal to the fighter's Wisdom modifier or 1/3 his fighter level (rounded down), whichever is higher (minimum 1). These benefits last for a number of hours equal to the fighter's level. The fighter must qualify for the feats they are being trained in, as normal, and trained feats may not be used as prerequisites for anything except more feats they are being trained in during the same session.

    A fighter may take one hour to retrain a number of bonus feats equal to his Intelligence modifier or 1/3 his fighter level (rounded down), whichever is higher (minimum 1). He must still meet the prerequisites for all his feats and prestige classes, as normal.

    A fighter may take one hour to train a number of allies equal to one-half his fighter level. These allies must spend the full hour training, at the end of which they receive the benefits of a number of feats equal to the fighter's Charisma modifier or 1/3 his fighter level (rounded down), whichever is higher (minimum 1). These benefits last for a number of hours equal to the fighter's level. Allies must qualify for the feats they are being trained in, as normal, and trained feats may not be used as prerequisites for anything except more feats they are being trained in during the same session. All feats being granted by this ability must be drawn from the list of fighter bonus feats, and the fighter must have currently selected them. A character cannot be trained by more than one fighter at a time.

    Armor Mastery (Ex): At 3th level, a fighter may reduce the armor check penalty from any armor he wears by an amount equal to his Strength modifier. He may also ignore the speed penalty from medium and heavy armor.

    Aspect Ability: At 3rd level, and every subsequent third level, fighters may select one ability from their aspect’s list. Unless otherwise mentioned, using these abilities is a standard action. You may only use one Aspect Ability per turn.


    Adept
    • Adaptive Defense: After an opponent makes a melee or ranged attack against you, you may spend a Talent Die as a free action to gain an insight bonus to AC equal to your Wisdom modifier against the next 1d4 attacks made against you by that foe.
    • Adaptive Offense: When making a full attack, you may spend one Talent Die to allow an iterative attack to strike at your full Base Attack Bonus. This may be done as many times per round as the Fighter has Iterative Attacks.
    • Exploitation: As a swift action, expend a Talent Pool die and make a Sense Motive check, with a DC equal to the opponent's armor bonuses plus his Base Attack Bonus (AC-10+BAB). If successful, treat your next attack against that foe as a touch attack.
    • My Turn: If you successfully defend against an opponent's Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, or Grapple check, you may expend one Talent Die to attempt the same maneuver against the opponent.
    • On the Edge: You may spend Talent Pool dice to grant yourself and all allies within 50 feet who can see and hear you a bonus to initiative.
    • Reading: An Adept may spend a swift action and a Talent Pool die to read a foe within 50 feet (Sense Motive Check vs 10+Enemy's Attack Bonus+Wisdom Bonus). If successful, the next attack or spell cast by that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the Adept.
    • Superior Position: After an enemy attack misses you, you may spend a Talent Dice as an immediate action to take a 5-foot step.


    more soon!

    Leader
    • Defend: Pick one adjacent ally and expend one Talent Pool die. For one round, all attacks against that ally have a miss chance equal to five times your fighter level.
    • Followers: You gain your own squad of soldiers. You gain one soldier per point of your Charisma modifier. Each soldier is a Warrior of one third your fighter level (rounded down), using the elite array for stats, and begins with masterwork equipment. Your soldiers have an initial attitude of Helpful towards you; this can be lowered by your behavior. If their attitude ever drops to Indifferent or below, they leave. If your soldiers die or leave, you may recruit new soldiers at any reasonably large city, as defined by the DM, at a rate of 2d6 hours per soldier. You may recruit commoners as soldiers as well, allowing you to replenish your squad from smaller towns, but doing so requires another 2d6 days of training, and you must provide equipment. If soldiers have recently left you because of ill treatment, recruiting replacements takes 1d6 days per soldier.
    • Inspire: When an ally within 30 feet rolls a saving throw against an ongoing effect, or against fear, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice up to your Charisma modifier. Roll these dice, and grant your ally a morale bonus to his saving throw equal to the result. You must expend the die before your ally sees the result of his roll.
    • Lead From the Front: You may expend two Talent Pool dice to grant an ally within 30 feet a single move action, to be taken immediately.
    • Overcome: Expend two Talent Pool dice to grant an ally within 30 feet a new saving throw against an ongoing effect.
    • Press the Attack: As a few action after reducing a foe to zero or fewer hit points, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice. For every three dice expended in this fashion, an ally within 30 feet may immediately make a ranged or melee attack.
    • Squad Combat: Adjacent allies gain a bonus to attack and AC equal to one-third your fighter level.
    • Take the Hit: When an adjacent ally is targeted by a melee or ranged attack, you may expend one Talent Pool die to become the new target of the attack. If an ally within 30 feet is being attacked, you may spend an additional Talent Pool die as an immediate action to move next to him. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity.
    • Teamwork: You may expend Talent Pool dice to grant a bonus to the attack and damage rolls of allies flanking a foe with you.
    • Vengeance is Ours: If an ally within 30 feet is reduced to zero or fewer hit points, all other allies within 30 feet, including you, gain damage reduction and a morale bonus to attack rolls and Will saves equal to your Charisma modifier for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier.


    Tactician
    • Called Shot: When making a melee or ranged attack, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice without gaining the normal bonus for doing so. If your target is hit, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + number of expended die + Intelligence modifier) or take one point of damage to a physical ability per expended die.
    • Cunning Step: You gain a 10 foot bonus to movement speed and may ignore difficult terrain. In addition, you may expend two Talent Pool dice to ignore magic that usually impedes movement, such as solid fog, slow, and web, for one round.
    • Denial: When an enemy within your reach attempts to use a spell or spell-like ability, you may, as an immediate action, expend two Talent Pool dice and make a single melee attack against the caster. If you successfully hit and deal damage, the spell is countered and the enemy's action is wasted.
    • Halt: If you make a successful attack of opportunity, you may expend one Talent Pool die to end your opponent's move action on the spot, even if he could normally move farther.
    • Mobile Combatant: As an immediate action, expend three Talent Pool dice to move up to your speed.
    • Reaction Tactics: When making attacks of opportunity, or using your Counterattack class ability, you may make a combat maneuver (trip, disarm, bull rush, and so on) in place of a standard melee attack.
    • Roving Warrior: When a opponent within a fighter's reach takes a five-foot step, he may, as an immediate action, move five feet to remain within reach of the foe. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity.
    • Stand and Fight: As an immediate action, expend three Talent Pool dice to prevent a foe from leaving your threatened area with his current move action.
    • Watchful Blade: Pick one foe within 50 feet and expend three Talent Pool dice. For one round, all of that foe’s actions provoke attacks of opportunity from you.
    • Wounding Strike: After striking a foe with a ranged or melee attack, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice. For one die, the attack bypasses regeneration and deals lethal damage. For two dice, the damage caused by the attack does not heal naturally or magically must until the target is the benefit of a Heal check with a DC equal to the fighter’s level plus his Intelligence modifier, or the spell has no effect.

    The Bigger They Are... (Ex): A true warrior knows that size is not the same thing as strength. Beginning at 4th level, when attempting a combat maneuver against a larger foe, a fighter gains a +4 bonus to opposed Strength checks, grapple checks, and the like, effectively cancelling out one size category's worth of difference.

    At 8th level, this bonus improves to +8 against foes who are two size categories or more larger than him, effectively cancelling out two size categories worth of difference. Against foes one size larger than him, this bonus is still only +4. For example, a human fighter would have a +4 bonus to grapple checks against and ogre (large size), but a +8 bonus against a cloud giant (huge size).

    Grit (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, a fighter can resist magical and unusual attacks with great fortitude. If he makes a successful Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect.

    Battle Style (Ex): At 5th level, a fighter gains a special ability, based on his chosen aspect.
    • Leader: Once per round, using the Aid Another combat action, or after you or an ally make an attack against a foe you are flanking together, you may recover one expended Talent Pool die.
    • Tactician: Once per round, after successfully making an attack of opportunity, or using the Disarm, Feint, or Trip abilities, you may recover one expended Talent Pool die.


    Parry (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, when a foe makes an attack roll against a fighter, he may, as a free action, expend a Talent Pool die and make an attack roll of his own, at his highest base attack bonus. If his attack roll exceeds his foe's, the foe's attack misses. If the fighter's is lower, he is considered flat-footed against the attack.

    Fighters may add their shield bonus to this attack roll, and take a -4 penalty to this attack roll for each size category that their foe is larger than them— however, both “The Bigger They Are…” and “…The Harder the Fall” may be used to reduce this penalty.

    Adaptive Style (Ex): Beginning at 9th level, a fighter can adapt to changing combat conditions on the fly. The manner in which he does so depends on his aspect:
    • Leader: As a move action, the fighter may expend one die from his Talent Pool to grant an ally within 50ft who can see and hear the fighter the benefits of a single fighter bonus feat he possess for 1 round per fighter level. The target must meet all prerequisites of the feat. The fighter may only have one iteration of this ability active at a time, and the subject may only benefit from one iteration of this ability at a time. Fighters may be assumed to know what feats their regular allies can meet the prerequisites of.
    • Tactician: As a move action, the fighter may expend one die from his Talent Pool in order to gain the benefits of a single fighter bonus feat for 1 round per fighter level. He must meet all prerequisites of the feat, as normal. He may only have one iteration of this ability active at a time.


    A fighter may not recover the dice expended on these abilities until the duration expires.

    Masterstroke (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a fighter’s attacks are not affected by hardness or damage reduction.

    Extended Style (Ex): Beginning at 10th level, a fighter may use his Battle Style ability two times per round, as long as he continues to fulfill the conditions.

    Storm of Steel (Ex): By 11th level, a fighter’s mastery of combat leaves others in the dust. He may make a full attack as a standard action.

    ...The Harder They Fall (Ex): By 12th level, a fighter is a master at redirecting a foe's force. When attempting a combat maneuver against a larger foe, he gains a bonus to opposed Strength checks, grapple checks, and so on equal to his opponent's size bonus.

    This ability effectively replaces “The Bigger They Are...”

    Counterattack (Ex): By 14th level, a fighter’s skill is such that he punishes foes for the slightest mistake.
    • While wielding a melee weapon (including unarmed strikes), if a foe within his reach makes a melee attack against the fighter and misses, he may immediately make a single melee attack against them at his full base attack bonus.
    • While wielding a ranged weapon, if a foe within one range increment of his weapon makes a ranged attack against the fighter and misses, he may immediately make a single ranged attack against them at his full base attack bonus.


    Battle Master (Ex): Beginning at 15th level, a fighter may use his Battle Style ability any number of times per round, up to a maximum one-half his key ability modifier, as long as he continues to fulfill the conditions.

    Freeform Style (Ex): Beginning at 16th level, a fighter may have any number of iterations of his Adaptive Style ability active at one time. In addition, he may expend multiple Talent Pool dice to activate multiple Adaptive Style abilities simultaneously.

    Battle Meditation (Ex): At 17th level, a fighter may take a standard action to regain a number of Talent Pool die equal to his key ability modifier.

    True Grit (Ex): Beginning at 17th level, a fighter’s ability to withstand harm increases even more. This ability works like Grit, except that while he still negates all effects with a successful Fortitude save, he now only suffers the partial effect on a failed save.

    Moment of Endless Battle (Ex): Beginning at 19th level, a fighter may take one additional standard action per turn. He may exchange both standard actions to take a full-round action.

    Perfect Warrior (Ex): At 20th level, a fighter may take ten on attack rolls. In addition, he may expend a single Talent Pool die after finding out the result of a roll.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-01-16 at 12:09 PM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sgt. Cookie's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    I like it. I like it a lot.

    The Bonus Feat thing, the ally training/re training bit, it makes an Int focus, and thus Taction, the better choice, after all you're always going to have you around, but you might not always have allies. There's also the fact that Leaders are going to be more MAD than Tactitions, as retraining feats is going to be used more often than training alles.

    I'd change retraining/ally training, respectively, to: "You may retrain a number of feats equal to your Aspect ability. Leaders may treat their Int score as though it were 4 points higher"

    "You may train a number of allies, equal to your aspect score, a number of Fighter Feats equal to half your aspect modifer. These feats last a number of hours equal to the Fighter's aspect modifier. Leaders may treat their Cha score as though it were 4 points higher for this purpose"

    This means that Leaders do not have to keep their Int up.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2013-01-11 at 09:38 PM.
    Open the lid and snatch a homebrewed treat from Cookie's Jar

    Ponytar by Dirtytabs

    Quote Originally Posted by DudeWhyAreAllTheNamesTaken(Imgur)
    Chaotic neutral. Might rob you blind. Might save your life. Might do both.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    On the other hand, Leaders get better out-of-combat utility, with Cha synergy, all the social skills and the ability to spend Talent die on 'em. Also, the Followers ability means that you always have allies with you.

    I might make the option to use, say, 1/4 your Fighter level in place of your Int/Cha for bonus feat options, though.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-01-12 at 04:40 PM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Grod, as a whole I like it, love the Leader vs Tactician roles, maybe add a Dex based Scout role? My only two complaints are the talent dice and how big the class has become.

    Talent Dice, don't quite know what it is, it's hard to say why I don't like it. Maybe it if was a set die size, or talked about as Points.

    The class is getting quite large, any way to don dense and simplify aspects.

    Anyway, great job so far, look forward to seeing the finished product.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    Grod, as a whole I like it, love the Leader vs Tactician roles, maybe add a Dex based Scout role? My only two complaints are the talent dice and how big the class has become.
    I had considered a dex-based scout or skirmisher aspect, but it didn't quite jive with the other two, being based on mental stats. I also thought about a wisdom-based aspect, to get all 3 mental stats, but I couldn't figure out what its schtick would be. The aspects are pretty independent of actual combat style, after all.

    Talent Dice, don't quite know what it is, it's hard to say why I don't like it. Maybe it if was a set die size, or talked about as Points.
    <shrug> can't help you there.

    The class is getting quite large, any way to don dense and simplify aspects.
    What do you mean?

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I had considered a dex-based scout or skirmisher aspect, but it didn't quite jive with the other two, being based on mental stats. I also thought about a wisdom-based aspect, to get all 3 mental stats, but I couldn't figure out what its schtick would be. The aspects are pretty independent of actual combat style, after all.


    <shrug> can't help you there.


    What do you mean?
    Firstly I apologize for the typos, was on my Ipad.

    How bout a Wisdom based scout? Listen, Spot, Survival are all Wisdom based skills. Make it less about combat, and more about the extra skill selections and ability to gather information. Who says a scout has to have any modifications to combat capability, but simply being a skill set and particular role?

    I mean the Core Fighter is so simple, easy enough to just hand to a new player. This Fighter is gaining so many new abilities, 24? class abilities plus feats. It no longer something that is easy to pick up and is more complicated than any core class save Druids.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    How bout a Wisdom based scout? Listen, Spot, Survival are all Wisdom based skills. Make it less about combat, and more about the extra skill selections and ability to gather information. Who says a scout has to have any modifications to combat capability, but simply being a skill set and particular role?
    Aspects are less about role, I feel, and more about, well... approaches to things, if that makes sense. The charismatic leader. The clever tactician. The... wise scout? I had thought about doing a Wisdom-based guy, but I couldn't think of--

    Wait...

    The "aesthetic" or "intuit" or something. Autohypnosis and related skills. Feat ability: learning new, extra feats from someone else. Adaptive style to copy a foe's feat. Aspect abilities about learning and exploiting foes' weaknesses. Hmm...

    I mean the Core Fighter is so simple, easy enough to just hand to a new player. This Fighter is gaining so many new abilities, 24? class abilities plus feats. It no longer something that is easy to pick up and is more complicated than any core class save Druids.
    The core fighter really isn't that simple, not if you want to be effective-- you have to pick feats and such very carefully, and the good feats are scattered so widely that it's hard for me to find them, much less a newbie. Barbarian is the classic newbie class-- you just hit things with a greatsword. Fluff-wise, I see fighters as the smart warriors, the ones with more technical skill than anyone else on the field. I don't mind that it's a bit more complicated.

    (Also, a lot of the abilities are upgrades of pre-existing abilities, often ones all classes have access to).

    The real question, I guess, is not "is it complicated," but "is it too complicated?"

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    The reality that is the Core Fighter is that it requires a very specific set of feats pulled from a variety of sources to be effective, but that was not the intent of the class. I also agree, Babarian is also a very easy choice.

    Yes yours is complicated, but it may only need a bit of housekeeping or even changes to layout if at all. I don't think it's too complicated yet, but could be if more is added.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    Yes yours is complicated, but it may only need a bit of housekeeping or even changes to layout if at all. I don't think it's too complicated yet, but could be if more is added.
    Fair. What do you suggest?

    (Also, I think all I'd add is a few more options for Aspect abilities. And maybe a new wisdom-based Aspect)

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Ok, I'll just note the issues, because the general makeup is decent and effective . . .


    First in the Fight
    Notice that as written, it is a 2nd level feature.

    Feat training
    1. How does one "forget" feats he knows?
    2. This will lead to a repeated daily pattern that will eat up on your game time – especially due to its application to others.

    Armor Mastery
    3rd level tin can acrobat – I'd never allow it.
    Remember that putting magical powers aside for a moment, 3rd level is still deep in the realm of capabilities of mortal men.

    Aspect Abilities
    Followers: Storyline features are bad (there's a reason why "Noble" is not a class).
    Press the Attack: Makes no sense as written. What if they're engaged in melee? Don't they need to already be holding a projectile/missile device in order to benefit from it?
    Squad Combat: Notice that as written this grants nothing at 3rd level.
    Take the Hit: The ability to take an action should not be tied to the presence of someone else (also, the ability to substitute an immediate action for moving up to your speed is too much for 3rd level).
    Roving Warrior: Ditto (unless it is done with a spectral tentacle).
    Stand and Fight: Should allow a save.
    Watchful Blade: I have a hard time swallowing this one.

    Grit
    What's the difference from Mettle ?
    Ditto for True Grit.

    Masterstroke
    Too much for 5th level. Way too much.

    Parry
    You didn't specify what constitutes "he succeeds" (in a sense of equalizing/exceeding the attacker's attack roll).

    Adaptive Style
    1. You should specify that the ally must be able to see and here the fighter.
    2. If it's in a sense of battle tips and on-the-fly inspiration/intuition, then a duration of minutes makes no sense.
    3. You should add a clause that a fighter is assumed to know what feats his regular traveling companions qualify for.

    ...The Harder They Fall
    You should exclude the offensive aspect of Bull Rush and Grapple (I mean, a halfling pinning a legendary elephant . . .)

    Freeform Style
    No way on the "activate multiple Adaptive Style abilities simultaneously".
    Each guidance holds a single insight (unless we're talking telepathy/auras here and not verbal-visual instructions).

    Moment of Endless Battle
    I don't exactly see the gain of this one over just saying that a fighter gets an extra standard action (or are you trying to prevent something?)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Noni raises some good points there. I'd suggest Masterstroke scales up as you level. Though again that might be overcrowding the class with bookkeeping on leveling up. As is, it's not a HUGE problem that I can see because most level up effects are one and done, reducing the complexity enough that I would feel comfortable handing off this class to someone who was relatively new to DnD (Not a total first timer, but not exactly a 20 year veteran either).

    I don't have a problem with Roving Warrior myself, though it should probably include a clause like "And no other enemy threatens you", both for balance concerns and an intuitive grasp. If it's just a man to man situation, it makes sense that as your opponent shuffles back a step you can advance and keep on him (Particularly quickly if you were a tactical, trained fencer, etc). But less so if you also have his buddy there holding you at bay with a weapon.

    Take the Hit I think should be limited to adjacent Allies, which isn't TOO bad considering the NPC warriors if trained up and equipped properly can probably be hanging out by your side anyway. And would give a reason to actually take some of those feats I've seen scattered around like Teamwork Defense, Phalanx, etc, that are all dependent on adjacent allies having the same feat.

    So yeah. No problem with the Leader and NPC Allies. At 1/3rd the level they probably won't be dominating any sort of fight. Not like 2-3 Level 3 Warriors are going to turn the tide of a level 9 encounter after all. Should for balance sake include a "Rounded down" notifier there so 2/3rds of a level doesn't round up to the next level.

    Question on the level 19 ability. It seems that due to the level 11 ability that means the fighter should be able to make two Full Attack Actions a round, while still having movement of course. But it's not worded clearly, sounding like he has to trade BOTH in for just one Full Attack Action, how is it intended to be?

    As far as making a "Wisdom" Aspect?

    Well right now you have:
    Charisma: Leadership and Group Work
    Intelligence: Study and Cunning
    Wisdom would probably fit an: Adaptable and Evolving aspect.

    So looking like:
    Aspect: Adept.
    Key Attribute: Wisdom
    Class Skills: Add Survival and Sense Motive to your class skill list.
    Bonus Feat: Eyes in the Back of Your Head (Complete Warrior)

    Talent Pool:
    Adepts may use their Talent Dice on any Wisdom based skill.

    For the Wisdom Based "Feat Training" you instead get:
    Once per day the Fighter may trade in one of his Fighter Bonus Feats for a Feat he qualifies for that one of his Allies has (Does not have to be a Fighter Bonus Feat). You gain the effect of this Feat for your Wisdom Bonus in hours, you may regain your previous Fighter Bonus Feat through normal feat retraining. You must spend 1 hour being instructed by said ally to gain this effect.

    Aspect Ability: Adept.

    Flash of Insight: You may expend one talent die before rolling an attack or skill check against a target. If you do, Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls, Skill Rolls, and Saving Throws involving that target gain a bonus equal to your Wisdom Bonus per Talent Dice used for a number of minutes equal to your Wisdom Bonus.
    My Turn: If you successfully defend against an opponent's Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, or Grapple check, you may expend two talent dice to gain an Attack of Opportunity against the enemy using the same maneuver.
    Adaptive Defense: After an attack against you (Hit or miss) you may spend a Talent Die, if you do, you gain a +2 AC bonus to the next attack made against you by that foe.
    Inspired Maneuver: You may expend three talent dice to gain the use of 1 feat you meet the prerequisites for but do not have until your next turn.
    Sound Mind, Sound Body: If you use at least 2 talent dice on a saving throw, you gain an additional bonus to your saving throw equal to your wisdom bonus.
    Clarity Strike: When an enemy attacks you (But before he rolls it), you may spend any number of Talent Dice. If the enemy misses you, you may make an attack of opportunity against that enemy. If the attack hits it Stuns the enemy for a number of rounds equal to the number of Talent Dice spent, the target may roll a Fortitude Save vs 10+Fighter Level+Talent Dice Spent+Wisdom Bonus to be stunned for half the normal duration rounded down.
    Reading: An Adept may spend a standard action and a talent die to Read a foe within 10 feet (Sense Motive Check vs 10+Enemy's Attack Bonus+Wisdom Bonus). If successful the next attack or spell cast by that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the Adept.
    Superior Position: After an enemy attack misses you, you may spend a Talent Dice to move 5 feet, this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
    Riposte: After successfully parrying an attack (See 7th Level Fighter Ability below), the Adept may spend two talent dice to make an immediate attack against the parried foe at his high base attack bonus -5. This is in addition to the Counterattack ability.
    Neat Trick: The Adept may spend two talent dice to gain the effects of a feat an opponent in melee range has and is using even if he does not meet the prerequisites for it. This effect lasts until the end of your next turn.

    Battle Style:
    Adept: Once per round when using the benefits from a feat you do not normally have, gain one talent dice. (Applies to Wisdom Based Feat Borrowing, Neat Trick, and Inspired Maneuver, along with another fighter possibly giving him the benefit of Charisma based Fighter Feat training, or the Adaptive Style effect of the Leader Aspect Fighter)

    Adaptive Style:
    Adept: As a move action, the Adept may spend one talent dice to gain a free use of Neat Trick, the duration lasts as long as Adaptive Style instead of until end of turn. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Adept's Fighter Level. (Rounds is a purposeful divergence from the usual Minutes duration the other styles have due to the potentially greater power of Neat Trick)



    Anyway, it's just a stab at it. It's been.... I dunno, since Second Edition since I really homebrewed up any class so I'm rusty. Just some thoughts and ideas, hope you appreciate.
    Currently sick as a dog and unable to focus properly. Will heal soon.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    First in the Fight
    Notice that as written, it is a 2nd level feature.
    Whoops.

    Feat training
    1. How does one "forget" feats he knows?
    2. This will lead to a repeated daily pattern that will eat up on your game time – especially due to its application to others.
    1. How does one forget spells he knows? Think of it as more of a "what's fresh in my mind" thing. I dunno.
    2. It leads to "OK, I retrain these three feats for these three," or "I train these dudes in these four feats." One sentence and less time than a prepared caster.

    Armor Mastery
    3rd level tin can acrobat – I'd never allow it.
    Remember that putting magical powers aside for a moment, 3rd level is still deep in the realm of capabilities of mortal men.
    You might be able to shrug off medium armor, but plate still carries a pretty hefty penalty for a few more levels.

    Aspect Abilities
    Followers: Storyline features are bad (there's a reason why "Noble" is not a class).
    I don't think this is a "storyline feature." It's more like an animal companion-- some buddies for you to use your Leader abilities on if the rest of your party plays casters or something.

    Press the Attack: Makes no sense as written. What if they're engaged in melee? Don't they need to already be holding a projectile/missile device in order to benefit from it?
    Then... they attack the person they're currently fighting? If they're not holding a weapon by the time combat has gone on long enough for someone to go down, they probably wouldn't be able to make a good attack (caster). What's nonsensical about it? It's a cry of "They're failing, lads! Press on!" A morale boosting thing.

    Squad Combat: Notice that as written this grants nothing at 3rd level.
    I'll switch it to 1/3 fighter level.

    Take the Hit: The ability to take an action should not be tied to the presence of someone else (also, the ability to substitute an immediate action for moving up to your speed is too much for 3rd level).
    Moving your speed is incidental. The real point is that you're throwing yourself in front of a sword.

    Roving Warrior: Ditto (unless it is done with a spectral tentacle).
    I'm sorry, but I don't see what the issue is, here. It's an ability that basically lets you ignore 5-foot steps. What's so bad about that?

    Stand and Fight: Should allow a save.
    Perhaps, yeah.

    Watchful Blade: I have a hard time swallowing this one.
    Too powerful? Because you can't really get it before level 6, when it still takes up almost all of your talent pool. Too unrealistic? You're watching a foe really carefully and taking advantage of mistakes that would be too small for anyone else to notice, much less exploit, because you're a fighter and you're just that boss. What's so wrong with that?

    Grit
    What's the difference from Mettle ?
    Ditto for True Grit.
    Read it again-- it's only for Fortitude, not Will.

    Masterstroke
    Too much for 5th level. Way too much.
    I'll move it up to 8th.

    Parry
    You didn't specify what constitutes "he succeeds" (in a sense of equalizing/exceeding the attacker's attack roll).
    Will fix.

    Adaptive Style
    1. You should specify that the ally must be able to see and here the fighter.
    2. If it's in a sense of battle tips and on-the-fly inspiration/intuition, then a duration of minutes makes no sense.
    3. You should add a clause that a fighter is assumed to know what feats his regular traveling companions qualify for.
    1. Good catch.
    2. You're right.
    3. I suppose, yeah.

    ...The Harder They Fall
    You should exclude the offensive aspect of Bull Rush and Grapple (I mean, a halfling pinning a legendary elephant . . .)
    Large creatures still have a substantial advantage due to size-based Strength bonuses. But otherwise, no. Simplicity is important, and, well... this is freaking 12th level. Realism has been gone for months.

    Freeform Style
    No way on the "activate multiple Adaptive Style abilities simultaneously".
    Each guidance holds a single insight (unless we're talking telepathy/auras here and not verbal-visual instructions).
    Get your mind out of the realism rut.

    Moment of Endless Battle
    I don't exactly see the gain of this one over just saying that a fighter gets an extra standard action (or are you trying to prevent something?)
    Just trying to cover all bases.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    1. How does one forget spells he knows? Think of it as more of a "what's fresh in my mind" thing. I dunno.
    One of the primary reasons the vancian system has so many opposers is the fire&forget crap.
    When it comes to feats it irks the eye even more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    2. It leads to "OK, I retrain these three feats for these three," or "I train these dudes in these four feats." One sentence and less time than a prepared caster.
    You're forgetting the possibilities of arguments over the gaming table ("don't teach us ['X'], we want ['Y']... no, ['Z'] is better now, no..." - these things happens you know).


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Moving your speed is incidental. The real point is that you're throwing yourself in front of a sword.
    Throwing yourself in front of a sword may be the purpose, but in order for a fighter to be able to move to aid an ally, first of all he most be able to move unconditionally (a mandatory necessity - you can't dunk before you can jump).


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I'm sorry, but I don't see what the issue is, here. It's an ability that basically lets you ignore 5-foot steps. What's so bad about that?
    Ditto.
    To make a follow-up 5ft-step, he must first be able to take that 5ft-step unconditionally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Too powerful? Because you can't really get it before level 6, when it still takes up almost all of your talent pool. Too unrealistic? You're watching a foe really carefully and taking advantage of mistakes that would be too small for anyone else to notice, much less exploit, because you're a fighter and you're just that boss. What's so wrong with that?
    1. Must have missed that "from you" part.
    2. I don't remember that RAW allow ranged AoOs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Read it again-- it's only for Fortitude, not Will.
    It says "with great willpower or fortitude".
    the "willpower" part is confusing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Large creatures still have a substantial advantage due to size-based Strength bonuses. But otherwise, no. Simplicity is important, and, well... this is freaking 12th level. Realism has been gone for months.


    Get your mind out of the realism rut.
    An epic monk having movement 100 I can swallow.
    A halfling demonstrating an arm-bar on a legendary elephant . . . NO WAY HOZE (he cant even reach its wee-wee for crying out loud).
    Look, it's a fantasy game and it stretches realism quite a bit, but when you break all boundaries of minimal credibility - that's where people start not caring anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Just trying to cover all bases.
    Which bases?
    I have no idea what scenario you're trying to allow/avoid.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    One of the primary reasons the vancian system has so many opposers is the fire&forget crap.
    When it comes to feats it irks the eye even more.
    <Shrug> Feat retraining is a good, classy way of boosting the fighter's versatility. I'm not going to ditch it because you find the fluff weird-- certainly not without a better replacement.

    You're forgetting the possibilities of arguments over the gaming table ("don't teach us ['X'], we want ['Y']... no, ['Z'] is better now, no..." - these things happens you know).
    Eh. Groups who want to argue will slow the game to a crawl regardless, and since you have to already know the feats, the choice is kind of limited.

    Throwing yourself in front of a sword may be the purpose, but in order for a fighter to be able to move to aid an ally, first of all he most be able to move unconditionally (a mandatory necessity - you can't dunk before you can jump).

    Ditto.
    To make a follow-up 5ft-step, he must first be able to take that 5ft-step unconditionally.
    I disagree with your assessment, and see nothing wrong with the abilities-- both are, as far as I can tell, useful and balanced.

    1. Must have missed that "from you" part.
    2. I don't remember that RAW allow ranged AoOs.
    2. It doesn't; this way you can hit them when they move into your reach or whatnot. It's a thing for versatility.

    It says "with great willpower or fortitude".
    the "willpower" part is confusing.
    Copypasta is underdone.

    An epic monk having movement 100 I can swallow.
    A halfling demonstrating an arm-bar on a legendary elephant . . . NO WAY HOZE (he cant even reach its wee-wee for crying out loud).
    Look, it's a fantasy game and it stretches realism quite a bit, but when you break all boundaries of minimal credibility - that's where people start not caring anymore.
    People have different expectations of what is 'reasonable.' Your 'too much' is my 'with sufficient bad***ery.' Regardless of your personal opinion, the fact remains that without extreme optimization, it's usually impossible for a primary melee type to use combat maneuvers against high-level monsters-- they're too big, too strong, and have too many HD. A grapple check from, say, a purple worm is a death trap because it's almost impossible to beat that +40 Grapple without freedom of movement. This gives you a fighting chance. And if it leads to a halfling pinning an elephant... I can live with that. It's not imbalanced, and it makes for the best kind of stories.

    Remember: D&D much above 10th level is the domain of Gilgamish and Beowulf, not Batman and Conan.

    Which bases?
    I have no idea what scenario you're trying to allow/avoid.
    I'm sure there are some feats/items/whatnot that take a full action to activate.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcturusV View Post
    I don't have a problem with Roving Warrior myself, though it should probably include a clause like "And no other enemy threatens you", both for balance concerns and an intuitive grasp. If it's just a man to man situation, it makes sense that as your opponent shuffles back a step you can advance and keep on him (Particularly quickly if you were a tactical, trained fencer, etc). But less so if you also have his buddy there holding you at bay with a weapon.
    Hmm. Maybe the following movement provokes AoOs?

    Take the Hit I think should be limited to adjacent Allies, which isn't TOO bad considering the NPC warriors if trained up and equipped properly can probably be hanging out by your side anyway. And would give a reason to actually take some of those feats I've seen scattered around like Teamwork Defense, Phalanx, etc, that are all dependent on adjacent allies having the same feat.
    Or... I think I'll add a dice cost to the movement part. That should prevent it from being spammed, at least.

    So yeah. No problem with the Leader and NPC Allies. At 1/3rd the level they probably won't be dominating any sort of fight. Not like 2-3 Level 3 Warriors are going to turn the tide of a level 9 encounter after all. Should for balance sake include a "Rounded down" notifier there so 2/3rds of a level doesn't round up to the next level.
    Yeah.

    Question on the level 19 ability. It seems that due to the level 11 ability that means the fighter should be able to make two Full Attack Actions a round, while still having movement of course. But it's not worded clearly, sounding like he has to trade BOTH in for just one Full Attack Action, how is it intended to be?
    No, although... it might be better balanced if he could only do one full attack/turn.

    As far as making a "Wisdom" Aspect?

    Well right now you have:
    Charisma: Leadership and Group Work
    Intelligence: Study and Cunning
    Wisdom would probably fit an: Adaptable and Evolving aspect.

    So looking like:
    Aspect: Adept.
    Key Attribute: Wisdom
    Class Skills: Add Survival and Sense Motive to your class skill list.
    Bonus Feat: Eyes in the Back of Your Head (Complete Warrior)

    Talent Pool:
    Adepts may use their Talent Dice on any Wisdom based skill.

    For the Wisdom Based "Feat Training" you instead get:
    Once per day the Fighter may trade in one of his Fighter Bonus Feats for a Feat he qualifies for that one of his Allies has (Does not have to be a Fighter Bonus Feat). You gain the effect of this Feat for your Wisdom Bonus in hours, you may regain your previous Fighter Bonus Feat through normal feat retraining. You must spend 1 hour being instructed by said ally to gain this effect.
    Mmm, yes, yes...

    Aspect Ability: Adept.

    Flash of Insight: You may expend one talent die before rolling an attack or skill check against a target. If you do, Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls, Skill Rolls, and Saving Throws involving that target gain a bonus equal to your Wisdom Bonus per Talent Dice used for a number of minutes equal to your Wisdom Bonus.
    Hmm... pretty similar to what Talent Dice already do...

    My Turn: If you successfully defend against an opponent's Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, or Grapple check, you may expend two talent dice to gain an Attack of Opportunity against the enemy using the same maneuver.
    I like it.

    Adaptive Defense: After an attack against you (Hit or miss) you may spend a Talent Die, if you do, you gain a +2 AC bonus to the next attack made against you by that foe.
    Should scale, but a great idea.

    Inspired Maneuver: You may expend three talent dice to gain the use of 1 feat you meet the prerequisites for but do not have until your next turn.
    Too similar to Tactician abilities, sadly.

    Sound Mind, Sound Body: If you use at least 2 talent dice on a saving throw, you gain an additional bonus to your saving throw equal to your wisdom bonus.
    Again, perhaps a bit too similar to standard Talent Dice abilities.

    Clarity Strike: When an enemy attacks you (But before he rolls it), you may spend any number of Talent Dice. If the enemy misses you, you may make an attack of opportunity against that enemy. If the attack hits it Stuns the enemy for a number of rounds equal to the number of Talent Dice spent, the target may roll a Fortitude Save vs 10+Fighter Level+Talent Dice Spent+Wisdom Bonus to be stunned for half the normal duration rounded down.
    Too strong, but I like the idea.

    Reading: An Adept may spend a standard action and a talent die to Read a foe within 10 feet (Sense Motive Check vs 10+Enemy's Attack Bonus+Wisdom Bonus). If successful the next attack or spell cast by that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the Adept.
    Brilliant.

    Superior Position: After an enemy attack misses you, you may spend a Talent Dice to move 5 feet, this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
    I like it.

    Riposte: After successfully parrying an attack (See 7th Level Fighter Ability below), the Adept may spend two talent dice to make an immediate attack against the parried foe at his high base attack bonus -5. This is in addition to the Counterattack ability.
    Hmm...

    Neat Trick: The Adept may spend two talent dice to gain the effects of a feat an opponent in melee range has and is using even if he does not meet the prerequisites for it. This effect lasts until the end of your next turn.
    Excellent.

    Battle Style:
    Adept: Once per round when using the benefits from a feat you do not normally have, gain one talent dice. (Applies to Wisdom Based Feat Borrowing, Neat Trick, and Inspired Maneuver, along with another fighter possibly giving him the benefit of Charisma based Fighter Feat training, or the Adaptive Style effect of the Leader Aspect Fighter)
    Hmm... not a bad idea.

    Adaptive Style:
    Adept: As a move action, the Adept may spend one talent dice to gain a free use of Neat Trick, the duration lasts as long as Adaptive Style instead of until end of turn. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Adept's Fighter Level. (Rounds is a purposeful divergence from the usual Minutes duration the other styles have due to the potentially greater power of Neat Trick)
    Hmm. I really like this, although it shouldn't just be duplicating an aspect ability.

    Anyway, it's just a stab at it. It's been.... I dunno, since Second Edition since I really homebrewed up any class so I'm rusty. Just some thoughts and ideas, hope you appreciate.
    Dude, that's pretty excellent. I like it a lot, and will definitely crib a bunch of things.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-01-13 at 06:07 PM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Any suggestions for more Adept abilities? Or abilities for other aspects? (Going up to 12/per would be ideal)

    Also, a few thoughts on tier, since we've been thinking about it recently.

    The chassis gives us a good, strong T4. By which I mean not just HD/BAB/Saves/ETC, but the core class abilities not related to Talent Dice. Armor Mastery, Parry, Storm of Steel... all act to make a class that can kill things with the best of them.

    Variety within combat-- Tier 3.5, if you will-- comes from The Bigger They Are, the Aspect abilities, and feat retraining, all serving to give a much wider range of options than "I attack."
    • TBTA lets you effectively use combat maneuvers even at higher levels, when oversized monsters normally make such things impossible without heavy optimization.
    • Feat retraining grants great versatility by allowing you to adapt to different situations in the same manner a wizard can. It's not as good, since feats are far, far less powerful than spells, and fighter bonus feats are mainly combat-focused, but it lets you change your specialty a lot more than a normal class.
    • Aspect abilities are, of course, fun combat things, in a similar vein to maneuvers-- although, hopefully, they're useful from the first level they're available until epic levels.


    Add in the expended skill lists-- and with Int or Cha focuses, they're quite nice-- and we certainly should be well within the borderline T4-T3 territory of ToB classes like the Warblade and Crusader.

    But Talent Die and Skills... well...
    Using them on physical skills gives you excellent maneuverability, especially out of combat when you can expend 5 dice on one Climb check. Add in Armor Mastery, and you should be good to go. They regenerate in a matter of minutes, fast enough that you should be able to keep a constant flow of die going out on important checks.
    • Leaders can become excellent socialites and faces-- a secondary Cha focus, plus the ability to spend dice on social skills? I'm worried about diplomancer cheese, to be honest, but they can talk as well as anyone short of maybe a bard.
    • Tacticians can be loremonkeys, and-- with that Int focus and Able Learner-- can get plenty of key skills, even the cross-class ones. VoaTW helps with that role as well.
    • Adepts... well, as the newest, non-original aspect, I'm not entirely sure where they fall, but they make nice scouts, with the ability to spend on Wis-skills like Spot and Survival.


    All together... I think I've really hit T3. Maybe better than any 'brew I've done since the Savage. (Still a favorite of mine)

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    I would agree, low Tier 3 seems about right.

    For adaptive offense. How about one talent die to ignore the iterative attack penalty? So on a full attack at high levels you would expend 3 talent dice and strike with four full BAB attacks? Or at lvl 6 one talent die to strike with two full BAB attacks?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    For adaptive offense. How about one talent die to ignore the iterative attack penalty? So on a full attack at high levels you would expend 3 talent dice and strike with four full BAB attacks? Or at lvl 6 one talent die to strike with two full BAB attacks?
    That's what I was going for; I was struggling to find a good way of putting it.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    That's what I was going for; I was struggling to find a good way of putting it.
    How about, "Spend one talent die to allow an iterative attack to strike at the Fighters Base Attack Bonus before modifiers. This can be done as many times per round as the Fighter has Iterative Attacks."?

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    Awesome! Thank you.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    I had an idea...

    How about another set of buses for each aspect. Good Will Save for Adept, 6+ Int Skills for Tactician, and something Suitable for Leader? This would make hem really stand out and help define the class even more besides combat terms.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Korea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bet you this isn't a Fighter fix (3.5, PEACH, title is a lie)

    This is the best fighter fix I've seen, and one of my favourites. Everything meshes really well and using this, the big dumb brute role will be left to the barbarians where it belongs.

    The Talent Pool is a great idea. I originally thought it was unnecessarily confusing, then realized I was just being lazy and really read through it. It makes sense to implement, as it lets the fighter have his epic moments. Nothing sucks more than unleashing a one-liner that would put Bruce Willis to shame while attacking the BBEG just to roll an 8 and fail. It shows the expertise the Fighter possesses.

    The only thing I would suggest is to give the Leader a few more useful "solo" combat abilities, things that don't depend on allies. The NPC warriors help to mitigate the ally dependence, but still, I think it would be nice for them to be able to something in a battle by themselves. Especially is this an honourable leader and is challenged to a duel or something...I just wouldn't any character of mine to be completely dependent on his friends. D&D does encourage team play, but I wouldn't want to take it too far, if you know what I'm saying.

    Keep up the good work, my friend.
    Order of the Stick Avatar done by the talented Kymme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Half-Hamster template gives me advantageous size and ability score bonuses, and combos well with my inherited Elderberry Radiance (Ex). Which is more than I can say for you, you class-dipping CL-losing Evoker!
    I was eating THOSE BEANS!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •