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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by about50heavies View Post
    Should I go with 2 weapon fighting or two handed weapon
    Let's do a quick comparison, shall we:

    - Two-Hand with a Greatsword, you deal 2d6+1.5*Str damage.
    - Two-weapon Fight with a Longsword and a Shortsword and you deal 1d8+1d6+1*Str+0.5*Str damage.

    - Two-Handing requires nothing.
    - Two-Weapon Fighting requires 3 feats, 15/17/19 Dex and gives you a global -2 to all your attacks.

    - Two-Weapon Fighting will never get 4th iterative.
    - Two-Weapon Fighting only does meaningful damage on full attacks from level 1 (Two-Handing at least can move and attack 'til level 6)
    - Two-Weapon Fighting only does ~½ damage on Attacks of Opportunity


    Now, do the math; do you want to invest 3 feats and high Dexterity for -2 to attacks and +1 average damage, and full attack dependency with a bunch of other drawbacks from level 1 (tip: Power Attack converts To Hit to damage at a significantly better rate, with a billion timers smaller investment)?

    You probably shouldn't be two-weapon fighting unless you have massive on-hit damage bonuses for each of your attacks (e.g. Rogue Sneak Attack).
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2013-01-27 at 09:44 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2012

    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    In TWF's defense, though, I want to point out: By the RAW, you only face the TWF attack penalties on your full attack action. Not on any AoO's you make after your turn, or even during it (if you have like... Greater Trip or something). Further, you can somewhat make up for the str multiplier disparity by using a double weapon or using a 2H weapon + unarmed or armor spikes or whatever else like that. Out of turn, you can just use the double weapon as a 2H weapon for AoOs while using it as 2 weapons during your turn. In the case of 2H weapon + some weapon that doesn't require use of hands, you actually would get the 1.5x str on the primary (but still 0.5x str on the 2nd weapon), during your turn and out of it.

    So TWF doesn't have to be completely horrible, if you do it right and your DM understands how the RAW actually works (IME, a lot of DMs would balk at some if not all of the above statements).

    I still think 2H (only) is better because it's cheaper (both in feats and money) and easier. And supports reach weapon use. You could do reach weapon + non-handed weapon for TWF, but that'd make it quite awkward to actually TWF. You'd need to 5 ft step in after primary attacks, then hope to god your enemy is stupid enough to 5 ft step back on his turn (because you just plain can't use your 2H reach weapon as the "offhand" weapon, but in order to attack with it first you'd need to 5 ft step back and then be unable to make your offhand attacks which require being closer). Yeah, not practical at all.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2011

    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
    You could do reach weapon + non-handed weapon for TWF, but that'd make it quite awkward to actually TWF. You'd need to 5 ft step in after primary attacks, then hope to god your enemy is stupid enough to 5 ft step back on his turn (because you just plain can't use your 2H reach weapon as the "offhand" weapon, but in order to attack with it first you'd need to 5 ft step back and then be unable to make your offhand attacks which require being closer). Yeah, not practical at all.
    Actually, Kobolds have a tail attachment with reach. So you could two weapon fight with Pole arm and tail at a distance of 5 feet.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2012

    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    The tail attachment...

    a) Counts as a manufactured weapon attack and not a natural one anymore?

    b) Is a light weapon? (Or 1H, but then you're eating a -4)?

    Do you have to be a kobold, or any race with a tail? Kobolds have HORRIBLE AWFUL HORRIBLE stats, and the str penalties and size make them ill suited to using a polearm, none of which are finesseable.

    Seriously, though. WTF did kobolds do to paizo? They have like a -4 or -6 to stats and horrible racial features in a game where most get a PLUS 2...

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2011

    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
    The tail attachment...

    a) Counts as a manufactured weapon attack and not a natural one anymore?
    Yes.

    b) Is a light weapon?
    Definitely

    Do you have to be a kobold, or any race with a tail? Kobolds have HORRIBLE AWFUL HORRIBLE stats, and the str penalties and size make them ill suited to using a polearm, none of which are finesseable.

    Seriously, though. WTF did kobolds do to paizo? They have like a -4 or -6 to stats and horrible racial features in a game where most get a PLUS 2...
    These questions, I can't answer. Though, if I were a DM, I'd probably allow it on a Tiefling with a tail, seeing as they can get a feat that allows them a prehensile tail.

    Oh wait... you can get it on a human. You have to take Racial Heritage: Kobold, but doing so opens up Tail Terror for you.
    Last edited by Baroncognito; 2013-01-28 at 01:29 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Suddo's Avatar

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    Nov 2011
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    Austin, TX
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    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
    Half-Orc: Darkvision, small intimidate boost, and some interesting racial variants. You could get +1 luck to saves or free Endurance feat or a bite attack, for instance.
    I personally went with Half-Orc for my campaign. +2 STR, Endurance (instead of intimidate) allows for me to sleep in armor which is nice, Darkvision, and a built in Bite Attack (its not much but it is note worthy). If you get Bite while raging, because you are going dragon instead of Beast, then you can up you're Darkvision to 90 and get the jump on the majority of things in dungeons who only have 60ft.
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    Currently Glanror in the Political Shenanigans campaign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rankar View Post
    *I may not teach the paladin communism and the concept of the greater good.
    *It is not within my rights to overthrow the established monarchy using the communist paladin.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    Is the totem warrior archetype good

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: How to build a barbarian pathfinder

    Should I go great sword or a two handed reach weapon

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