Ponythread Learns to Draw II

[Sean Mirrsen]

Drawing random ponies for random people.

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And due to the request containing polished hooves, also practicing getting the specular reflections right on smooth surfaces.

[SiuiS]

Alright ponies. I'm going to start this whole daily art thing.

What I want from you guys, though, is something else entirely; I want information. Please make a case for tablet and program, with detail – I cannot successfully google anything you just throw out, so conversational tones and personal experiences are best. I aim to eventually start painting, but will do stuff similar to Thanqol in the interim.

What size tablet is great versus too big or small?
What program has perfect functionality versus too little variation or too much stuff you'll never touch?
What books, sites or classes(!?) give appropriate levels of advancement without being too technical or too wishywashy artist? Need to be able to improve, but not hit a wall where I can do A+B=2A, A^2+B^2=C^2, then suddenly I'm lookin at a triple nested divisor with a root and some Cyrillic.

FC, if you answer please give details. The truly lazy do it well the first time so they don't have to keep doing it, after all

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well, if you want an opinion of a general layabout, here I go.

For tablet... well, I can't not make a case for Wacom, because seriously - while they certainly don't make stuff cheap, they make stuff that both lasts and works. I've made do with a Bamboo Fun Pen&Touch to a certain point, but then switched over to an Intuos5 Touch. (No reason for the Touch thing, they just don't seem to have regular Intuos5's around here) Both have served me long and well, though I recommend getting some form of "ablative armor" as soon as you can, something to protect the tablet's surface. It's easy to get a little overeager, especially with the harder nibs.

Before I went Wacom though, I had the oldest thing since stones, one of the tiny Genius WizardPen tablets. While the difference in quality between it and the Bamboo was massive, I must say that even the cheap tablets, if that WizardPen is indicative of their quality, should serve you well enough, if you're on a tight budget.

The tablet size I use is Medium, but only because "small" is really too small, and I need the tablet to fit inside my laptop case so I can carry it around. Mostly though, I have not found myself wanting a larger one.

In regards to software, I am currently very biased towards MyPaint, so I'm likely to make it sound way better than you might find it. MyPaint is a simple, no-nonsense painter program, with a twist - it's so simple and no-nonsense, that it does not include things that an image manipulation program would. MyPaint is not for manipulation, it is strictly for drawing and painting. You won't find selection tools, cut/copy and paste, filters, or any of the simple conveniences you might have been used to since MSPaint, bar Ctrl+Z (not including it would be a crime :P). What you'll get instead, is an infinite canvas, massive array of brush customization options along with a set of realistic-looking brushes (the pencils are my favorite), easy-to-use view controls and dynamic brush hotkeys - in other words, the program is fine-tuned to work with a tablet. Most relevant controls are bundled together on the keyboard, so even if you don't have a tablet with ExpressKeys, you'll be able to quickly rotate the view, zoom, switch layers, change brush size and opacity, and you'll even be able to insta-switch to an eraser and back if your stylus doesn't have the eraser nib on the back.

So in conclusion, it ain't Photoshop, it is more geared towards simulating a painting or drawing experience, like Corel Painter. But where drawing in Corel Painter is like flying a Boeing, MyPaint is more like a hang-glider. Well, a Cessna, at most. ^_^


Not sure I can recommend any classes though. I accumulate knowledge through many sources, so it's hard to pinpoint one. But the drawing books by Andrew Loomis, that were linked here somewhere, are a pretty good start. They contain most of what is relevant to drawing things, and can be applied especially well with MyPaint, because of the infinite canvas - you can literally doodle away till your RAM runs out. ^_^

Anyway, that's what I got. Hope it helps you. :)

[flyingchicken]

FC, if you answer please give details. The truly lazy do it well the first time so they don't have to keep doing it, after all

haha I like that you single me out for my LACONIC TENDENCIES :D

Alright ponies. I'm going to start this whole daily art thing.

personally I don't like the idea, I just like to be driven/inspired/horny and produce lots and lots; anyway~

What size tablet is great versus too big or small?

I like bigger better so you can move your arm more! DRAWING WITH JUST YOUR WRISTS IS SCRUBBY; personally I use a 10x6.5in cheapo tablet and I'm comfortable with it, though idk if I'd like something even bigger.

What program has perfect functionality versus too little variation or too much stuff you'll never touch?

I love Paint Tool SAI maybe because I'm a massive WEEABOO but also because it's just like 60 buxx and simple and intuitive and PEER PRESSURE a lot of cool guys use it :d but it's very very simple compared to like PS or Painter (it's like a poor man's Painter actually) BUT it doesn't do non-Windows! What I like MOST about it, it might sound a bit specific, but you can bind tools to individual keys, maybe it's possible with other programs but it's out in the open and easy to do with SAI; it's fun just switching tools around with a press of a button

What books, sites or classes(!?) give appropriate levels of advancement without being too technical or too wishywashy artist?

honestly this is hard to answer for me because I'm like, a very bad student and jump around fundamentals and it's like super dumb BUT I really really really enjoyed the Vilppu courses (I think you can find some in Youtube), this video was very enlightening on some very fundamental concepts of color, just outright copying artists I like (I love so many artists!) before trying to re-construct them, drawing people IRL on old receipts (I don't enjoy this very much but life drawing/drawing from live action movies/videos/PORNS gives me like, knowledge of where things go, which is important for like even cartoony stuff which I LOVE), um, some of the links at the OP are pretty helpful too! off-hand I have these bookmarked:
PSG art tutorial
color scheme designer (not a lesson/tutorial but a tool!)
huer value chroma jesus christ just skim this a bit and go back to it after a year, it becomes less hard by then

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~ANYWAY, HYUMAN PONII SKETCHES!!! cmc twi aj

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[SiuiS]

haha I like that you single me out for my LACONIC TENDENCIES :D

I play to my audience~

personally I don't like the idea, I just like to be driven/inspired/horny and produce lots and lots; anyway~

It's a spiritual thing.

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Alright. Makes sense.

I'm going to set aside jars, then. Put a dollar in each one every week, one labeled TABLET and the other, PROGRAM. See how long that takes. Need to do pencil arts in the meantime.

[Madcrafter]

GAHHHHH, spent half an hour typing out a nice response, and then accidentally keystroked it into oblivion...

Long story short:
-I like FC's links above (the 3D colour space makes it so much easier to wrap one's head around that difficult subject, and I've only read the first essay)
-The CMC are super cute
-I use a Wacom Bamboo Splash, which at 70 bucks is a little more expensive than FC's (and smaller). I highly recommend it, though my experience with tablets is not broad. (It comes with some software too).
-I use PS, which is probably best left for professionals, and is expensive as all hell (though they switched to subscription last month). Nonetheless, I really like it.
-IIRC, there are a few great free programs out there, and a lot of the paid ones you can try out for a while to see if you like (Paint Tool SAI I know has a month trial).
-I'll add Ctrl+Paint (linked in OP) to the pile of recommended learning material. I like their short videos, focusing on on aspect, sometimes with little homework pieces too.
-and the other stuff in the OP, especially posemaniacs and the pixelovely ones.

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Day 356:

Second day working on that unofficial fic cover posited by Crimson Doom. Got everything but the ponies in their places now, I'll probably put them in tomorrow.

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Time: 1h? (and a few hours yesterday)

[Tiki Snakes]

I'm really not one to ask for art advice, for various reasons. Looking forward to seeing what you get up to though, Siuis.
You better believe I'll be watching. Well, probably.

So, yeah. Speaking of art, me, and reasons why I might not be the best source for advice, have a scrappy take on the same project breif Madcrafter there is working to. Well, more or less. I can't say I put overly much effort into checking it was covering all the elements required or anything.

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I spent significantly longer drawing and redrawing splodges that were supposed to be clouds than is remotely efficient, shall we say? Also worth pointing out, I'd originally imagined the Sky-Centipede as having legs, and the ponies aren't even joined up, let alone shaded. Still, I kind of don't dislike where it went.

[Madcrafter]

So, yeah. Speaking of art, me, and reasons why I might not be the best source for advice, have a scrappy take on the same project breif Madcrafter there is working to. Well, more or less. I can't say I put overly much effort into checking it was covering all the elements required or anything.

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I spent significantly longer drawing and redrawing splodges that were supposed to be clouds than is remotely efficient, shall we say? Also worth pointing out, I'd originally imagined the Sky-Centipede as having legs, and the ponies aren't even joined up, let alone shaded. Still, I kind of don't dislike where it went.

That's the great advantage of not being the official response to the request: full artistic freedom. Mind you, I am trying to stick close to what was requested, just because it's nice to have some restrictions. I like the monster, very Cthuluish. And I can imagine that with your style there, it might be a bit difficult to make clouds.

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Day 357:

Just some Posemaniacs. S'been a while. I tried hooking up my computer to the tv to extend the desktop and get both the website and PS visible at once. Worked alright with a few minor issues.

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Time: 30m

[Tiki Snakes]

It's not so much my style as it is my rusty, damaged skills. I never really got a grasp on that kind of thing in the first place, and like with line-art and proper shading, I guess its one of those things I simply haven't done anything to beat the mental block on.

[Matthias2207]

You'll never be a famous artist with that attitude, Tiki.

[Tiki Snakes]

No, I won't. But then, I could have told you that.

[SiuiS]

I spent significantly longer drawing and redrawing splodges that were supposed to be clouds than is remotely efficient, shall we say? Also worth pointing out, I'd originally imagined the Sky-Centipede as having legs, and the ponies aren't even joined up, let alone shaded. Still, I kind of don't dislike where it went.

Yeah. That's what I have to break; the idea of success. I don't draw unless there's a finished product in mind, and I'm not happy unless that finishe product meets quality assurance standards. So I don't really dabble anymore. It sucks.

No, I won't. But then, I could have told you that.

Along with "I don't want to be a famous artist", I imagine.

[Madcrafter]

It'd be tough to be an artist. All that starvation and suffering and such.

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Day 358:

Everyone can always do with more hand practice.

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Time: 25m

[Tiki Snakes]

Claiming it's because I don't even want to be a famous artist, despite that being true, would feel like a bit of a cop-out.

I know perfectly well that I lack the drive, determination, self belief and talent to become a famous artist. I don't need it pointing out. It's all I can do to bring myself to even try to line-art, due to old mental scar-tissue.

Still, for the fun of drawing my FoE OC, Trees, I did a little.

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The line-art is hardly the selling point, but it was entertaining.

[Matthias2207]

I think somebody didn't get my subtle 'famous artist would always claim it was intentional if they thought they could get away with it' joke. Maybe I told it wrong?
(I'm sorry if I offended you.)
Edit: You know, something like this completely out-of-context reaction of Emma Watson, if you replace the audio with something like: "My style? Yeah... Totally! Of course! My style!"

[flyingchicken]

xoxoxoxoxo

[Tiki Snakes]

I think somebody didn't get my subtle 'famous artist would always claim it was intentional if they thought they could get away with it' joke. Maybe I told it wrong?
(I'm sorry if I offended you.)
Edit: You know, something like this completely out-of-context reaction of Emma Watson, if you replace the audio with something like: "My style? Yeah... Totally! Of course! My style!"

Perhaps a little bit, but no harm done.
Mental scar tissue, you understand.

well I don't have anything really to add to this convo!

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pony robots

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I disagree, pony-robots are always a welcome addition to a conversation.

[Madcrafter]

Adding nothing.

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Day 359:

Some pirate Pathfinder goblins, enjoying something.

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Time: 20 min?

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Day 360:

Should've drawn circles, what a missed opportunity. Anyways, another short sketch today, which I am very late to the bandwagon on.

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Time: 20min
Hmm... that crab would do well with some cybernetic implants.

[Thanqol]

Hey guys. Let's talk flagchat.

Flags are amazing artistically. You've got to create combinations of basic colours and shapes that can summarise the character of an entire nation. A good flag has to be able to be drawn by a six year old in crayon, has to be visible from hundreds of yards away on a flagpole, and has to stir the soul enough to inspire armies to sacrifice themselves for it. A flag is the history, goals, and ambitions of an entire country presented in an utterly minimalistic way.

There are a lot of really great flags out there (USA, UK, Japan) and some terrible ones (Mozambique, take those goddamn assault rifles off your flag, what the hell). So I'm pitching a generalised challenge to design some flags, either alternate takes on real world nations or for fantasy nations!

Rock 'em if you got 'em.

[SiuiS]

I love the concepts of the americanflag, though I prefer the French application of the colors.

Hmm. Been a goodly while, I'll have to look into it again. Is there some, like, Universal Code of Flag Color Meaning somewhere?

[Thanqol]

I love the concepts of the americanflag, though I prefer the French application of the colors.

Hmm. Been a goodly while, I'll have to look into it again. Is there some, like, Universal Code of Flag Color Meaning somewhere?

Nah, each nation has it's own metaphors for the colours. It's pretty straightforwards, usually - and besides, if people can't understand the symbolism of your flag without looking up a manual then you've failed at flag.

[flyingchicken]

if people can't understand the symbolism of your flag without looking up a manual then you've failed at flag.

??????????

[Thanqol]

??????????

There's no manual that says 'Red represents violence and blood, blue represents oceans and unity'; no universal flag-code. It's specific nation to nation. Red on the USSR flag means different to the red on the USA flag.



The code here is pretty simple. Union Jack: our history as a British colony. Southern Cross: our celestial geography. Large star: the star of the Commonwealth. History, geography, future, done up in the democratic colours of red, white and blue. There's no international standard of what having a white star on your flag means, which was what SiuiS was asking.

[Sean Mirrsen]

There's no manual that says 'Red represents violence and blood, blue represents oceans and unity'; no universal flag-code. It's specific nation to nation. Red on the USSR flag means different to the red on the USA flag.

<picture-snip>

The code here is pretty simple. Union Jack: our history as a British colony. Southern Cross: our celestial geography. Large star: the star of the Commonwealth. History, geography, future, done up in the democratic colours of red, white and blue. There's no international standard of what having a white star on your flag means, which was what SiuiS was asking.

To an uneducated (or simply misremembering) person, the Southern Cross looks a little like an Ursa Minor. The stars also look a little like shuriken. So a conclusion that it's a country of British space ninja bears is also a viable one, from just looking at the flag. :P

Thing is, you do kinda need a manual to understand a given flag. Without knowing the country's history, the flag's symbolism is absolutely lost. It's like trying to read Tamarian.

[Madcrafter]

Or you have a flag like Canada that doesn't really have any meaning at all.
-11 pointed maple leaf, representing nature and stuff (number of points was just chosen because it turned out to be the least blurry when the flag was waving)
-Red and white, because King George V said they were the official colours of Canada back in the 20s

That's what you get for living in a country that's so new. Wind tunnel tests on what design is easiest to see and a committee decision. The Provincial flags have more symbolism.

[Thanqol]

To an uneducated (or simply misremembering) person, the Southern Cross looks a little like an Ursa Minor. The stars also look a little like shuriken. So a conclusion that it's a country of British space ninja bears is also a viable one, from just looking at the flag. :P

Thing is, you do kinda need a manual to understand a given flag. Without knowing the country's history, the flag's symbolism is absolutely lost. It's like trying to read Tamarian.

Sure. That's a very convincing point against an argument I didn't make.

Or you have a flag like Canada that doesn't really have any meaning at all.
-11 pointed maple leaf, representing nature and stuff (number of points was just chosen because it turned out to be the least blurry when the flag was waving)
-Red and white, because King George V said they were the official colours of Canada back in the 20s

That's what you get for living in a country that's so new. Wind tunnel tests on what design is easiest to see.

In terms of flags, though, Canada has a great design. Simple colours and a distinctive icon. Recognisable and with character. Make flags like that.

[Balmas]

Still, for the fun of drawing my FoE OC, Trees, I did a little.

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The line-art is hardly the selling point, but it was entertaining.

I think Scrunchy Trees is my favorite so far.

In terms of flags, though, Canada has a great design. Simple colours and a distinctive icon. Recognisable and with character. Make flags like that.

So, what would you say makes the best kind of flag? Is it character? Recognizability? Symbolism?

[Thanqol]

So, what would you say makes the best kind of flag? Is it character? Recognizability? Symbolism?

The best kind of flag is the one that summarises its nation's personality.

The American flag is loud, rude, garish and obnoxious. It's also unambiguously grand, unified and proud. America would not be America with any other flag; one of the genuinely most disturbing things I've found in the Fallout setting is the slight change to the American flag. Even though aesthetically the US flag isn't that pleasing I still think it's one of the best flags out there for that reason.

[Madcrafter]

The American flag is loud, rude, garish and obnoxious. It's also unambiguously grand, unified and proud. America would not be America with any other flag; one of the genuinely most disturbing things I've found in the Fallout setting is the slight change to the American flag. Even though aesthetically the US flag isn't that pleasing I still think it's one of the best flags out there for that reason.

I don't know... I'd give it grand, unified and rude perhaps, but I'm not so sure about the rest. It seems to me that the others are more connotations of americans that maybe have been attached to the flag, and the fact that due to media consumption the american flag is seen a disproportionate amount of times in the english speaking world. "Objectively" I don't really think it's that loud, and especially not garish, compared to other flags.
I do agree that America wouldn't be America with any other flag though.

EDIT: Scratch that, thinking about some other flags, I'll agree with you completely. Though it isn't the most garish around.

[Sean Mirrsen]

if people can't understand the symbolism of your flag without looking up a manual then you've failed at flag.

Thing is, you do kinda need a manual to understand a given flag. Without knowing the country's history, the flag's symbolism is absolutely lost. It's like trying to read Tamarian.

Sure. That's a very convincing point against an argument I didn't make.

Which argument?