Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 2: Find Harder

[Zherog]

Prepare for being upset...

A 123

Yes, demoralize is a fear effect. To get that rule, you have to piece together several rules.

Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

Fear
Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear. In most cases, the character makes a Will saving throw to resist this effect, and a failed roll means that the character is shaken, frightened, or panicked.

Shaken: Characters who are shaken take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

Frightened: Characters who are frightened are shaken, and in addition they flee from the source of their fear as quickly as they can. They can choose the paths of their flight. Other than that stipulation, once they are out of sight (or hearing) of the source of their fear, they can act as they want. If the duration of their fear continues, however, characters can be forced to flee if the source of their fear presents itself again. Characters unable to flee can fight (though they are still shaken).

Panicked: Characters who are panicked are shaken, and they run away from the source of their fear as quickly as they can, dropping whatever they are holding. Other than running away from the source, their paths are random. They flee from all other dangers that confront them rather than facing those dangers. Once they are out of sight (or hearing) of any source of danger, they can act as they want. Panicked characters cower if they are prevented from fleeing.

Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

So, a creature that is shaken is suffering from a fear effect; demoralize makes the target shaken. Therefore, demoralize inflicts a fear effect. Therefore therefore ( ), if you are immune to fear, you are immune to demoralize.

A 123a

"Mind-affecting" is a spell descriptor, and so only applies to spells that have that tag. Since Intimidate is not a spell, it's not covered by the rules for mind-affecting.

[Drackstin]

Q124

using a human with a favored class and its skilled trait, can you get to a higher rank for a skill then you should be able to at that level.

ex. can you get 10 ranks in heal using these means by level 5 (instead of 7) so you qualifie for feats that would need 10 ranks in heal

[Douglas]

I make a point of looking the SRD up and down before I ask for something, so if someone replies back with an SRD quote that I have completely and utterly overlooked, I'm going to be very upset with myself for being a derp.


Q123: Intimidate, Fear, Etc
Okay, Intimidate. Straight up question.
Does immunity to fear mean immunity to demoralize?

Be prepared to be upset with yourself, then.

You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds.
Shaken is a less severe state of fear...

Q123a:
Does immunity to mind altering effects mean immunity to demoralize?

This one, however, is a bit strange. In 3.5, the general description of fear effects specifies that All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects. The corresponding section of the Pathfinder rules (complete with entries about fear auras, cones, and rays) removed that line. Because of that removal, it appears that fear effects in Pathfinder are not, in fact, mind-affecting as a general rule. Most of them, particularly the spells, individually stipulate that they are mind-affecting, but intimidate does not. Therefore, immunity to mind-affecting does not grant immunity to intimidate's demoralize use.

I suspect the Pathfinder writers didn't realize the significance of removing that line, but that's a matter of RAI rather than RAW.

[Zherog]

A 124

Under normal circumstances in Pathfinder, you can't get 10 ranks until level 10.

That said, neither the human bonus skill nor the "skilled" racial trait (at least, the one I could find - which was actually a half-orc trait) changes the rules for max ranks. It just gives you more points to spend. For example, a fighter with a 10 Int gets 2 ranks. A human fighter with a 10 Int gets 3 ranks; both are limited to their character level for maximum ranks in any particular skill.

[Zherog]

123a additional

Actually, Douglas's post reminded me where to find the fear rule I was looking for. The text he references from 3.5 is still there, at least in the official PF SRD.

Fear (Su or Sp) Fear attacks can have various effects.

Fear Aura (Su) The use of this ability is a free action. The aura can freeze an opponent (as in the case of a mummy's despair) or function like the fear spell. Other effects are possible. A fear aura is an area effect. The descriptive text gives the size and kind of the area.

Fear Cone (Sp) and Ray (Su) These effects usually work like the fear spell.

If a fear effect allows a saving throw, it is a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 fearsome creature's racial HD + creature's Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects.

(emphasis mine)

So I'm revising my previous answer. Immunity to mind-affecting effects does grant immunity to fear.

[Drackstin]

A 124

Under normal circumstances in Pathfinder, you can't get 10 ranks until level 10.

That said, neither the human bonus skill nor the "skilled" racial trait (at least, the one I could find - which was actually a half-orc trait) changes the rules for max ranks. It just gives you more points to spend. For example, a fighter with a 10 Int gets 2 ranks. A human fighter with a 10 Int gets 3 ranks; both are limited to their character level for maximum ranks in any particular skill.

Q124 continued

i saw in the skill section, you just get +3 bonus to any class skill you put ranks into, so your max is always your level? then how do these rules work then

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Feat and Skill Racial Traits

Bonus Feat: Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.
Skills: Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.

Favored Class: Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Prestige Classes) can never be a favored class.

[Douglas]

123a additional

Actually, Douglas's post reminded me where to find the fear rule I was looking for. The text he references from 3.5 is still there, at least in the official PF SRD.



(emphasis mine)

So I'm revising my previous answer. Immunity to mind-affecting effects does grant immunity to fear.

On review, I note that the provision in question actually is in the section I linked, just very confusingly organized. There are two sentence that should be in a separate paragraph (and in the Bestiary, they are) and are about fear effects in general, but on d20pfsrd they are part of the cone and rays entry. If you look right at the end of the fear cone and ray section, "All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects" is in there.

So yes, immunity to mind-affecting does protect against intimidate.

[Keneth]

A120: You may be making the attack roll against a creature, but the damage clearly applies to an object and not a creature. So no.

That's true, but objects are not inherently immune to precision damage. Since wielded/carried objects use the creature's defenses, wouldn't that trigger conditions for a sneak attack, much like if the object was animated?

A123a+ While [mind-affecting] is indeed a spell descriptor, that does not by extension mean that only spells and SLAs are considered mind-affecting effects. That's like saying only spells can be considered fire effects because [fire] is a spell descriptor. While RAW doesn't explicitly say so, fear should probably be considered a morale effect, and thus a mind-affecting effect. Why do you think it's called "demoralize"? Because it affects your morals? No, because it affects your morale. I was actually looking for that line Zherog and douglas posted in CRB and couldn't find it. I didn't think to look for it in the MM Bestiary. Good find.

[Zherog]

A 124 additional

Your max ranks is equal to your character level. If you have at least one rank in a skill and that skill is a class skill for any of your classes, you also get a +3 untyped bonus to that skill.

The bonus skill point for being human gives you one more point to spend, as does the bonus from favored class (if that's the bonus you choose to select).

For example:

A fighter with a 10 Int gets 2 skill points at each level. He also decides to take his favored class bonus as a skill point, giving him 3 points total. He puts one point into each of Climb, Intimidate, and Spellcraft. Climb and Intimidate are class skills, so he also adds an additional +3 to the total; his total in those skills will be +4 (1 rank, +3 class skill bonus) plus the appropriate ability modifier (Str and Cha, respectively). Spellcraft is not a class skill, so his total in that skill is going to be +1 (1 rank, +0 Int mod).

[Fenryr]

Q 125.

Renewed Vitality is a Rage Power. The question is, you ignore a flat amount or you get a "Damage Reduction" that applies to damage ability?

Example: Is it a) or b)?

a) The Barbarian has 16 Dex. Suddenly he is hit and loses 3 Dex, so he has 13 now. He uses the rage power and as 16 Dex again.

b) The Barbarian is fighting an enemy who imposes ability damage with a d6. The Barbarian uses the power and can now ignore X (based on Barbarian level) from the d6.

[Drackstin]

Q 125.

Renewed Vitality is a Rage Power. The question is, you ignore a flat amount or you get a "Damage Reduction" that applies to damage ability?

Example: Is it a) or b)?

a) The Barbarian has 16 Dex. Suddenly he is hit and loses 3 Dex, so he has 13 now. He uses the rage power and as 16 Dex again.

b) The Barbarian is fighting an enemy who imposes ability damage with a d6. The Barbarian uses the power and can now ignore X (based on Barbarian level) from the d6.

A126

from what im reading, for your ex:A if you have -3 dex from ability damage, and you raged, you would have to be level 6 barbarian for you to get rid of all -3, but its not automatic, you have to make the saving throw if you are allowed to, after your done raging, or you don't benefit from it

ex:B if you are raging and you are hit by something that dose -4 STR ability damage and you are level 6 you would drop it to -1STR

[Killer Angel]

Q 126

Does a cavalier's mount count as an ally, for abilities like Tactician, Banner, and so on?

[Axier]

Q 127

Can wandermeal be fed to mounts and beasts of burden, with similar effects?

[JackRose]

Q 127

Can wandermeal be fed to mounts and beasts of burden, with similar effects?

A 127

It's not explicitly stated one way or the other. However, since there are seperate listings for animal feed, (divided further into carnivore, bird, and unspecified), I would say that food intended for humans is generally not nutritionally appropriate to feed animals on, and vis-versa.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Augment Summoning doesn't apply to a summoner's Eidolon, does it?

[Certified]

Q128

Augment Summoning doesn't apply to a summoner's Eidolon, does it?

A128

The text from Augment Summoning states any Summon Spell. An Eidolon is not summoned with a Summon spell but the Eidolon class feature. Summoners with the Summon Eidolon spell may apply Augment Summoning for the spell. However, this may have been removed in an Errata, I just am not locating it at the moment.

[Story]

Q129

How does the damage cap on Blast Barrier work? Is the max 4d6 slashing + 2d6 sonic, or 6d6 slashing + 6d6 sonic?

[Hendel]

Q129

How does the damage cap on Blast Barrier work? Is the max 4d6 slashing + 2d6 sonic, or 6d6 slashing + 6d6 sonic?

A 129

The max damage is 2d6 slashing and 6d6 sonic if you were at least an 18th level caster. The and separates the two types from the progressive nature of the sonic damage.

[gr8artist]

Q 130
Can you make a sneak attack that benefits from multiple sneak attack tricks/talents if they come from different sources? Example pirate/ninja/rogue. Each class gets a class feature that they can apply to a sneak attack. Can I use one trick/talent from each class simultaneously?

Pirate trick:

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As a Deep Sea pirate develops her skill, she learns a number of tricks that aid her in her work. She gains a pirate trick at 4th level and every three levels thereafter. A Deep Sea pirate cannot select an individual trick more than once.

Tricks marked with an asterisk add effects to a Deep Sea pirate’s sneak attack. Only one of these tricks can be applied to an individual attack, and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.

Rogue talent:

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As a rogue gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue gains one rogue talent. She gains an additional rogue talent for every 2 levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.

Talents marked with an asterisk add effects to a rogue's sneak attack. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.

Ninja trick:

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As a ninja continues her training, she learns a number of tricks that allow her to confuse her foes and grant her supernatural abilities. Starting at 2nd level, a ninja gains one ninja trick. She gains one additional ninja trick for every 2 levels attained after 2nd. Unless otherwise noted, a ninja cannot select an individual ninja trick more than once.

Tricks marked with an asterisk (*) add effects to a ninja’s sneak attack. Only one of these tricks can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack is made.

[Keneth]

A130 I checked the last time this question was posted and I couldn't find anything in the RAW explicitly saying that you can't combine the three. However, since all of these abilities essentially do the same thing, I believe RAI would have that you can only use one.

[gr8artist]

Ok, thanks for that. Gotta' love when RAW seems to completely contradict RAI. Anyway, next question, based on a feat I just found.

Q 131
Burning spell + Acid arrow.
The feat causes the spell to deal 2x level extra damage at the start of a creature's turn if it was damaged by the spell in the last round. Does this mean that the victim would take the extra damage every round after they take the acid damage?
Normal acid arrow, CL 9
2d4 on hit / 2d4 / 2d4 / 2d4 on round 4... Total 8d4
Acid Arrow + BS feat, CL 9
2d4 on hit / 4, 2d4 / 4, 2d4 / 4, 2d4 / 4 on round 5... Total 8d4+16
(the static 4 happens on enemy turns, the 2d4 happens on caster turns)

[Keneth]

A131 Looks about right. But an average of 63 points of acid damage to a single target isn't really an achievement at 18th level with a 4th level spell.

[Axier]

A 127

It's not explicitly stated one way or the other. However, since there are seperate listings for animal feed, (divided further into carnivore, bird, and unspecified), I would say that food intended for humans is generally not nutritionally appropriate to feed animals on, and vis-versa.

Excellent point, thank you. It is a bit gray, needs rule 0.

Of course, another question:

Q 132 a

If I use an Acid Flask, as the alchemical focus of Acid Splash, is the +1 damage for the duration of the spell? First round 1d3+1, second round 1d3+1?

Q 132 b

If I also use an Acid Flask as a material component, and the +1 does carry per round, would it also carry to the additional round with the Acid Flask.

[Urpriest]

Q133:
If a user of a Spell-Like Ability is damaged while using it, do they need to make a Concentration check?

Q134:
Is there a way to tell when a creature is using a Spell-Like Ability (so as to trigger a readied action for example)?

[Cieyrin]

A 132 You can only use a single Flask of Acid as a Focus or a Material Component, not both, so you can't get both effects. If you provide 2, then yes, you'd have +1 damage over both rounds. Acid Splash only normally has one round of duration, that is, when you hit your target, btw.

A 133 Yes.

A 134 Presumably, given they provoke for using a spell-like ability, so there must be an instance of when they leave an opening that you could trigger off of. The lack of components does make that difficult to figure out, though.

[Keneth]

A134+ It is generally assumed that spells and SLAs have visual displays, much like psionic powers do. But even if you fluff your magic differently, SLAs can still be detected when used, and identified with a Spellcraft check. While the rules may not explicitly call that out, they do support this notion.

[Ardantis]

Q135 Are Combat Maneuvers a common part of gameplay?

Q136 What do Monks spend most of combats doing?

[Zherog]

A 135 and 136

Neither of your questions are about the rules of the game, and the answers to your questions will vary from group to group, making it subjective. As such, it's not an appropriate topic for this thread - which is for quick, rules-based questions. It would be a fine topic for it's own thread, however.

[Ardantis]

Thanks Zherog

[Mary Leathert]

Q 137

About the monster special quality "change shape". In it's description it says that the creature cannot take a shape that's more than one size category away from it's natural form. Imps and quasits both have this ability, and also a list of forms they can take. Among them are several that are too large for them, as far as I can see. Imps and quasits are tiny, and I don't think a wolf or boar is small. How should this be handled? Am I missing something? Should I just ignore the size limits? Or somehow make them appear as small wolves/boars/whatever?

This is in relation to Pathfinder Society, so I can't just make up things on my own.