Looking for a system

[Lord Haart]

Hallo there. For two sessions now, our IRL group plays (in between the regular 3.5e sessions; we have a tradition of DMing in turns) a campaign set in a world called "My Very Own Sacred Dear World" by the guy who's DMing; he very reluctantly agreed to let us in, but only on his terms (we have a tendency to rain madness and frogs whenever we go). Said terms included playtesting his Very Own Sacred Dear Gaming System.

After playing it for a while, opinions divided. Two of us simply don't care. One sees the system as flawed but doesn't complain to avoid any OOC tension. Meanwhile, i can't help but honestly say my opinion complain about everything that deserves it in my eyes loudly whine about every downside i see — such as the fact that we were expressly allowed to play crossover characters, then suddenly forbidden once i decided to play a Dalek deserter apparent imbalance between spellcasters and normal guys (caused, slightly unusually, not by linear/quadratic problem, omnipotent open-endeness of magic or single ability dependancy on either side — here DM has my congratulations — but by prejudice against nonmagical characters starting with anything more kewl than good-form human abilities and rat-slayer's kit, while spellcasters start with abilities roughly equal to 3.5's 6-th level sorcerer with spellpoint variant and a bunch of metamagic feats — eschew materials, still, silent, discriminating between allies and enemies etc. — applied to all his spell, while also being able to convert money into mana at good exchange ratio) and, more importantly, handling of any actions DM didn't think rules for either in a vein of "How it's done in 3.5? Well, that's how" or else "How it's done in 3.5? Nah, it's imba, roll without a bonus".

On the bright (-er, as we still have a lot of fun and i'm still not expressly forbidden from diplomancing bosses into my servants) side, he allowed me to try and present him with a system that will satisfy both sides. I've made a list of requirements. "!" marks requirements that are necessary, "." are not necessary but desired.


1! It shall be rules-light. No skimming through lots of rulebooks (he dislikes 3.5 precisely for the reason of the possibility to optimise/customise by rulebook-diving). Character generation must be simple, rules — fully digestible in an hour or two of reading them and easily accessible whenever the arguement arises

2! It shall use point distribution system of any kind instead of classes. He dislikes classes. Not sure about systems with very reduced numbers of very broad "classes" ("Guy who fights", "Guy who bends the laws of reality with mere words", "Guy who stuffs your bodies into a treasure chest then re-arms the trap and leaves"), but it's better to not bring the term up at all. System without any sort of internal power accumulation (that is, ones where you power is determined only by your wits and things that can be stolen or destroyed) are also undesirable, though; while i like them, he clings to good old experience rewards.

3! It shall have simple, easy and comprehensible rules for creating monsters (and/or a simple monster generator tool avaiable somewhere). That was another problem with 3.5; he makes a monster with (Ex) invisibility, then we (that is, the system-savvy part of the group, not just me) cast antimagic field and begin to whine that it should be (Su) and there are precedents and no it can't "just have invisible cells" because that's not how it works (petty, i know). Besides, generating monsters in 3.5, let alone making them exactly as challenging as you want (where even reskinning doesn't work due to CR unreliability), really is troublesome to say at least. Simply having a monster manual/bestiary isn't enough, since the guy designs his monsters himself.

4! It shall be universal enough to simultaneously cover spellcasting (preferably including non-vancian; including vancian is not necessary), firearms, power armors, cool tech and inherent racial/mutant abilities (including pretty powerful ones). Generally, it shall be able to simultaneóusly represent following characters without creating a gaping power disrespancy:

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• One radioactive Fallout-style ghoul clad in very old, very worn power armor made of lead alloy. He wields a chain axe straight from Warhammer, constantly regenerates (his armor doesn't, through, which makes him really dangerous), can't die from an old age but is still subject to any damage that gets to him through his (currently buckload-of-DR-granting) armor or invokes the Chunky Salsa Rule. If his armor ever breaks (which it would like to do any moment soon), he'll turn into a quite reluctant menace to public health, because, well, he looks like that underneath and radiates the part.
• One draconide fire mage who can fly, shapeshift into near anything he likes (or, in case of this particular subrace, into undead-looking variant of anything he likes), bite and claw by the virtue of his race (which also kills him in a few days if he'll come to a world without background magic) as well as unimagitively apply a lot of fire to his problems by the virtue of his magical prowess.
• One cowboy-styled broke thief without any affinity for magic and with but one extraordinary talent: a talent to stay unnoticed when the dice says so, even by his teammates and even he tries to get attention. His weapon of choice is a stolen rifle with some borrowed bullets (he returns them after use).
• One lizardman geneticist who is a straight rip-off of dr. Curt Connors, give or take. He is completely magic-inept, prefers to fight (reluctantly and only if situation demands, but fiercely) with his claws and body (which is my principal position, so when DM says something in vein of "If you want to do damage comparable to your allies, just find a good weapon", i'm unsatisfied; even in 3.5 there are at least quarter-way competent monks), regenerates lost limbs with time, knows some field medicine and has the ability to turn guinea pigs into spider-pigs if given a good laboratory, some costly equipment and a few weeks to clone a genetically identical control group.
• A lot of NPCs, mostly draconides (with similar omnishapeshifting, flying and, depending on the subject, fire-breathing abilities, along with background magic dependency), furries and humans.
• A Dalek, depowered by emergensy temporal shift™ down to any level necessary (i proposed the pitiful "can't shoot, has no deflection field, can be killed with a cutting torch and some patience, favored enemy: stairs" variant). Just in case i'll get the permission.

5! It shall not depend on WBL/item upgrade race like D&D traditionally does. To the Dark Side of shoplifting this path leads.

6. It shall not close any options you didn't invest into, like D&D does. Now this is my kink, not DM's; i'd very much prefer a system that doesn't forbid you from bull rushing/kicking in groin/throwing sand into eyes effectively if you didn't take necessary feats/talents/whatever out of far greater list of options, while still reglamenting them in a way that leaves them viable (as opposed to not reglamenting at all and leaving DC and effect to DM's fiat).

7. It'll be good if it won't be too alien to someone used to D&D basic framework. Fallout Pen and Paper was easy for him to learn, as it still has the same "roll against DC" base, even if the dice was d100 and low roll was good. World of Darkness-type rolls, on the other hand, would be much harder to get used to. Being able to make quick assumptions on a familiar basis would be great for the both sides.

8. Being able to deal nonlethal damage without a penalty with appropriate weapons and/or to attack called body parts would be nice, if not necessarily at all (first allows to slightly break off the kill-'em-all mentality even when in dungeon, second in addition diversifies tactics; however, both are neither vital nor impossible to replace by simple RP).

9. It would be great if it would also be able to incorporate already canonised concept of converting money into mana in pinch (at some rate or another) as a houserule without making spellcasters irrevocably broken (we warned him that this should make casters too broken regardless of the system just by common social logic, but alas).


So, if there are game systems matching as many of these requirements as possible, i'd be glad to be given directions.

[Rhynn]

H"How it's done in 3.5? Well, that's how" or else "How it's done in 3.5? Nah, it's imba, roll without a bonus".

Let me guess, the GM has no (significant) experience with any game other than 3.X / d20 ? I swear that's like the requirement for "creating your own system" nowadays.

Anyway, 1! and 4! pretty much conflict. I suppose there's FATE, etc. (no experience, personally). Unisystem (All Flesh Must Be Eaten fits, but you'll probably have to come up with your own rules for a lot of stuff (not a prob, IMO, because the system is so simple). GURPS fails 1! hard but fits the others pretty well.

But coming so clearly and heavily from 3.X, your GM is going to have to adjust to a lot of things. For one, Challenge Ratings and Wealth By Level are 99% exclusively a 3.X (or d20) thing - even older editions of D&D don't have them.

The requirements (particularly 6-9) are so specific that I doubt you're ever going to find a system that fits everything, or even nearly everything. Heck, I'd be amazed if you can find an exact fit for 1-5.

[Mr.Bookworm]

You want Mutants and Masterminds, which fulfills every single one of your points. It's primarily built for superheroes, but it's really easy to hack it into whatever you want to do.

Here's the SRD for 3E.

[Rhynn]

You want Mutants and Masterminds, which fulfills every single one of your points. It's primarily built for superheroes, but it's really easy to hack it into whatever you want to do.

Huh. That seems like stretching "rules-light", but yeah, that does fit. Not sure if it hits 9, though, but I can't think of anything that does as such.

[tensai_oni]

You want Mutants and Masterminds, which fulfills every single one of your points. It's primarily built for superheroes, but it's really easy to hack it into whatever you want to do.

The problem with Mutants and Masterminds is that the game master, frankly, looks like someone who Does Not Play Nice. If he finds a way to break the system, he will.

And M&M is really, REALLY easy to break. There's a reason one of the core assumptions when playing that system is that the game master policies the players, says "no, this power to grant yourself immunity to all attacks or perform an infinite number of actions in one turn is imba, do something else". But who will police the game master himself?

Fate/Spirit of the Century fails point 2 (the "internal power accumulation" part, not the classless part) and to some extent 3 and 4, since it focuses on human characters without any supernatural powers. It's possible to homebrew, but still.

Frankly? From your side of the story, the game master sounds like a petty jerk on a power trip, or at least an anti-spellcaster chip on his shoulder.

[BardicDuelist]

FATE Core and Dresden Files Roleplaying Game seem to be the best bets for this. I'd take a look at them.

[The Troubadour]

These days, I usually recommend the D6 System to anyone who asks for a fast and easy to use system... Except that the action resolution is a pool of d6s, so the GM probably won't like it. :-)

[Grod_The_Giant]

You want Mutants and Masterminds, which fulfills every single one of your points. It's primarily built for superheroes, but it's really easy to hack it into whatever you want to do.

Here's the SRD for 3E.

FATE Core and Dresden Files Roleplaying Game seem to be the best bets for this. I'd take a look at them.

Both of these are great options. I wouldn't call either one particularly rules-heavy, but they do have a conceptual curve that can be steep-- M&M, in wrapping your head around power construction, and Fate, in figuring out aspects. (Something my group has yet to do properly ). But the base system of both is great; I had a blast running M&M, and now I'm running hacked-Dresden Files and it's working pretty well.

[evildmguy]

Well, I will pitch for Alternity.

1! Since it's OOP, there are a limited number of books for rules. Really, PH, GMG and the FX book and Mindwalker are probably all that's needed for most things.

2! It does have Professions that give specific abilities no one else can get but ability scores and skills are by points.

3! Monsters use the same rules as PCs. However, this was created during the 2E to 3E transition, so there are some exceptions. I guess for examples, the GM might need to pick up the various Alien Compendium books.

4! Built into the system. The magic is more personal in that a caster would not get something like Meteor Swarm or other huge spell like effects. If playing a modern game, the fireball that exists is on par with a grenade. So, magic and technology work well together. If playing fantasy, then magic ends up being more powerful because the technology doesn't exist.

4a! Characters look possible on my read through but the group would have to figure out exactly what the specifics for those characters means.

5! Most items are on par with each other, it's more a matter of ranged versus not ranged. And while armor isn't needed to defend against pistols, it's obviously a good thing. I think common sense plays a big part in this, especially with a modern game. My group is playing a modern game and they have their character go for cover, even wearing kevlar.

6 Again, more influenced by 2E than 3E, so there are guidelines on how to figure out the bonus or penalty based on what the character wants to do. There are also enough skills that those can be used as guidelines as well but it can be simplified down as needed. Rolls are low based and it does have varying degrees of success. It's based on ability score plus skill rank. For example, lock picking is DEX plus Lock picking. So maybe it's 10 (DEX) + 3 (ranks) = 13. So, in Alternity it's written as 13/6/3, which is the Ordinary/Good/Amazing result scores needed. Rolls are a control die (d20) +/- the situation die (d4,d6,d8,d12,d20) to get the total. Bonuses are minuses, penalties are plusses. So, if it's determined that the check is at +2, you roll d20 and add a d6 to it and then compare against 13/6/3 (in this example). Adding then shows that it's going to be tough. If the check is at -1, it's d20 - d4 and so more likely to not only make it but get a better result. There's a bit more to it but that's the basic idea of it.

7 Same basic stats but renamed (wisdom = willpower and charisma = personality). It does have rules for converting 2E characters to Alternity but they are wonky! :) Alternity plays very different, though, and takes a bit to get used to but I enjoy it!

8 Yes and does it very well. There are four durability types, although only three are used regularly, and one of those is stun damage. So, it's possible to be knocked out by losing all stun, without having one wound or mortal point of damage! There are also penalties based on type of damage the character has but that can be ignored easily if not wanted.

9 you would have to play with this but probably? I guess it depends on what you mean by that. The system allows fatigue (the fourth durability) to be used as mana points, so healing them could have a cost? Or were you talking about mana potions?

I think the biggest disadvantage of Alternity is that it is OOP, so without finding some at a half price store or other used book store, or gaming store, the only way to get it is via eBay. Sometimes you get deals and sometimes not, as is typical with eBay. Having said that, I'm hopeful that they soon put the PDFs out there! I would pay to have them in a good PDF format!

Obviously, I'm biased, but that's my thoughts on it.

edg