[FWM] OOC 4: Enchanted Manticore

[Kelvin360]

Wait, did this actually happen? I don't seem to remember that happening. Benson, are you looking for an excuse for Miss Gwyn to go rampage some things? Do I need to bust out the Big Guns?

You don't need to. Send Daniel alone. Within five minutes we'll have a walking MacGuffin all up in the Dark Forces' business quicker than you can say 'Enemy Mine'.

Wait, actually, can we actually do that? That'd be so cool.

[TheAmishPirate]

On magic:

I do agree, Purity's classification of active and passive magics is indeed a good one. It explains the latent magic of Earth Ponies, as well as provides a nice spectrum across all the races; Earth Ponies are primarily Passive, Unicorns are primarily Active, and Pegasi occupy the middle ground with their mix of weather magics and related traits. However, like Grif said, I think it'd work best as a supplement to the main magic system, rather than the system itself.

Now, onto magical schools. D&D does have a rather nice classification system going, but I'm yet to be convinced it's the one we should go with. Kelvin hit the nail on the head when he said that every magic has to start with a focus, and in nearly all of the cases here it's going to be the cutie mark of the individual. So, to a pony, their magic is classified by subject, based on the subject of their Mark. Sandy and Obsidian Flare could learn from each other in some respects, as both have Earth-related Cutie Marks. Likewise, Icy could trade spell ideas with a Water-based mage, and so on. D&D spell schools, on the other hoof, generally classify spells by effect. Abjuration deals with protective spells, Conjuration focuses on transporting and creation, Divination focuses on acquiring information, etc. To me, this seems like a rather backwards way for ponies to classify their spells. It would make more sense to me if they classified by subject, as that would be more helpful for them to find more spells/passive tricks that they could learn.

In fact, as I type this, I think I can see a sorting method that could work. At the risk of sounding over-complicated, I think there could be three tiers of classifications:

[Subject] [School/Effect] [Passive/Active]

The subject would relate to the Mark needed to perform the spell, or "Universal" if anypony can learn it. The School would be your typical D&D classification; a school of magic that determines its effect. While spells from incompatible Subjects would be unlearnable, there could be parallels that a mage could apply to their own spells (Ex: Uncle Iroh developing his Lightning Redirection technique by studying the practices of the Waterbenders). Finally, Passive/Active would determine whether the spell was...well, an honest-to-goodness magical spell, or a more passive, learned technique that made use of the latent magic in the pony.

[Kelvin360]

So...Taylor's offensive standby would look like this?

[Light] [Evocation/Offensive, Direct] [Active]

Hmm. Short, straight, and to the point. And then he could learn other spells with [Light] as a component, right?

[TheAmishPirate]

So...Taylor's offensive standby would look like this?

[Light] [Evocation/Offensive, Direct] [Active]

Hmm. Short, straight, and to the point. And then he could learn other spells with [Light] as a component, right?

Precisely correct on all counts! Although, the '/' was more meant as an either-or, rather than formatting. That said, I do like the additional descriptor, so feel free to leave it in as a bonus.

In other words, what you have and:

[Light] [Evocation] [Active]

would both be acceptable under this system.

[Kelvin360]

Cool!

And now I have something to pull out of my hat that we probably need to discuss.

What Subject and School would teleport-

"Hastened departure via crossing astral boundaries. Or, if you feel like it, folding space on itself on two points. Teleportation implies an instantaneous entrance/exit reaction, which is impossible."

...

What Subject and School would teleportation belong to?

"Bah!"

[Orzel]

Hmm...

That would make Grills: [Fire] [Conjuration] [Active/Passive]

As he summons fire or banishes fire through his mouth and coat through spells and latent magic. it also explains his infrared vision, high fire resistance, and skill with teleports (he teleports through the Plane of Fire).

Active and Passive was always the way i saw magic in the MLP verse. Icy and Hover would both be water based but in different ways. Icy actively summons water but water moves passively according to Hover's emotions.

Also. Depending on the amount of noble houses called, the Nobles of Fetlock can field

"Almost a hundred thousand ponies, dragons, beasts, and goats armed and ready to defend Equestria from the enemies of the North and East. Though it'll take a lot to get all those old rich ponies to take up arms on the same cause on the same side."

[TheAmishPirate]

Good questions/comments all around.

For Teleportation, the school is absolutely Conjuration. Teleportation rarely works without some form of extraplanar travel, even for a split-second. Pop to one plane, pop out where you need to be, easy as that. As for the Subject...I honestly don't know. Twilight in the show certainly can teleport, but we've yet to see anything to indicate that other unicorns can. Orzel makes a good argument for planar teleportation, though one would have to be considerably skilled to pull that off safely.

What do we think; Teleportation is Universal (but difficult)? Does it belong to some specific Subject? Both?

@Orzel: Two things:

1) Remember that the descriptors are for spells, not ponies. I'm pretty sure you know that, I just wanted to make that clear.

2) I would actually put some of Hover's magic with water in the [Weather] Subject. I think all pegasi could get access to this Subject (regardless of talent) with varying degrees of competency, simply based on their ability to manipulate clouds and weather. I can't quite recall what her talent is, so she might very well have [Water] as well.

****************************

The main point/draw of this system, as I see it, is that it provides a neat, tidy framework to classify magic, without letting a ton of details limit the possibilities. Does your pony have a relevant [Subject] as a part of their Special Talent? Then they can probably use this magic with some effort. Do they know something in the same [School]? Then they can probably develop their own magic with a little creativity. What race are they? Then that decides how Active or Passive their magic is. Beyond that, folks are free to develop spells of all shapes and kinds without having to worry about standardized casting times, component costs, spell levels, etc. The only real concern is power balance, and that's what we've got an OOC thread for.

[Orzel]

Good questions/comments all around.

For Teleportation, the school is absolutely Conjuration. Teleportation rarely works without some form of extraplanar travel, even for a split-second. Pop to one plane, pop out where you need to be, easy as that. As for the Subject...I honestly don't know. Twilight in the show certainly can teleport, but we've yet to see anything to indicate that other unicorns can. Orzel makes a good argument for planar teleportation, though one would have to be considerably skilled to pull that off safely.

What do we think; Teleportation is Universal (but difficult)? Does it belong to some specific Subject? Both?

There could just be many type of teleports. Anything from transmutations into energy which rapidly moves or just various conjurations.

@Orzel: Two things:

1) Remember that the descriptors are for spells, not ponies. I'm pretty sure you know that, I just wanted to make that clear.

2) I would actually put some of Hover's magic with water in the [Weather] Subject. I think all pegasi could get access to this Subject (regardless of talent) with varying degrees of competency, simply based on their ability to manipulate clouds and weather. I can't quite recall what her talent is, so she might very well have [Water] as well.

Yeah. Grills knows a few ice, electric, and light magic as back-ups vs heat resistant obstacles. Plus a spell that converts Alcohol into Magic.

[Booze][Alchemy][Active]

Hover's magical talent would be the weather responding to her emotions. Which is usually sad and gloomy so she can pilot through storms with ease. The Backer are testing her to see if she can control the pressure within the Cirrus' air tanks or something. Everypony on the Cirrus is a magic test dummy.

[Grif]

The main point/draw of this system, as I see it, is that it provides a neat, tidy framework to classify magic, without letting a ton of details limit the possibilities. Does your pony have a relevant [Subject] as a part of their Special Talent? Then they can probably use this magic with some effort. Do they know something in the same [School]? Then they can probably develop their own magic with a little creativity. What race are they? Then that decides how Active or Passive their magic is. Beyond that, folks are free to develop spells of all shapes and kinds without having to worry about standardized casting times, component costs, spell levels, etc. The only real concern is power balance, and that's what we've got an OOC thread for.

I can get behind this. And yes, the way I see it, teleportation is universal but difficult to master.

Anyway, Amish, I'm gonna leave it to you to rule on shimmerite/gloomium.

As I stand now, I'm not opposed to Luka's intrepetation, since it has already been incorporated in the backstory in some form or manner. However, I would propose a change in the mechanics to resemble my original shimmerite idea: that it is a sort of capacitor for positive energies and serves to amplify any abilities associated with said energy, instead of being innately good. Evil!shimmerite/Gloomium is just as easily made by filling the metal with associated negative energies. So basically, the same metal, with the ability to flip to either orientation.

EDIT: to further expand on the idea, deposits of shimmerite are already mildly aligned to one of the either two sides, depending on the latent type of energy in the area. (An atrocity like a genocide taking place nearby for example, would render any nearby shimmerite deposit evil, while peaceful regions tend to produce good!shimmerite.) But the base metal/ore is naturally neutral.

EDIT EDIT: To expand on the properties of the metal further, I propose these few characteristics:
- Shimmerite armour has comparable strength to common steel. (or made by alloying them with it. Pure shimmerite is probably brittle.)
- Depending on its alignment, shimmerite amplifies existing abilities associated with the element, but do not allow new ones.
- Shimmerite of either alignment have a passive immunity against the opposite alignment. Any attacks will be absorbed by the armour, at the cost of its stored energy. When the energy is depleted, then it's reverts to its neutral state. Further attacks may actually push the shimmerite to the opposite alignment, potentially hampering the user. Note that for this to happen, massive amount of energy must be expended.
- Empowered shimmerite will also have passive magical resistance for magical attacks that has no particular alignment. (Elemental attacks would fall under this.)

[TheAmishPirate]

Hmm. And I imagine that, once set, reversing the polarity on said metal is exceptionally difficult? To the point where an unskilled mage might destroy the material altogether?

[Grif]

Hmm. And I imagine that, once set, reversing the polarity on said metal is exceptionally difficult? To the point where an unskilled mage might destroy the material altogether?

Possibly. But I'm not decided on the matter. (Also made an edit while you posted. :P )

[PurityIcekiller]

That's workable, I guess. Does it react to magic aligned with it at all, though?

[Grif]

Some more food for thought while I'm waiting for consensus on my latest proposal.

I believe I recall a map being released by Hasbro for Equestria. While that map does not adequately reflect our alternate Equestria, I'm thinking we can base our initial map off it, yes? I might try to sketch a map and see what I can come up with. (Don't mind my horribad MSPaint skills.)

Now, from what I can recall, we currently have these nations in the RP: (tentatively named)
Equestria (aka New Lunar Republic), further subdivided into:
- The Fire Lands (Fetlock)
- The Northern Wastes (Valhalla, Stalliongrad)
- Equestria Proper/Central Equestria (Canterlot, Ponyville, Everfree)
- *Westlands (Appleloosa)
- Desert/Saddle Arabia (Agrabuck)

Griffon Empire
Moose Country
Crystal Empire
Zebrica
Feyland (technically not part of this world, I believe)

Plausible nations, but not mentioned or introduced as of yet:
Dragon Nation
Deer Land
Saddle Arabia (Might be a province or vassal state of Equestria proper)
Wild Lands
Atlantis/Seapony lands

A lot of names, yes? Honestly, even after this long, I'm still fuzzy about the general locations of these towns and nations.

Also, what is our stance on alien technology? Do we still keep those bits about spaceponies? (and other pony races for that matter) They don't seem to be mentioned in the RP of late. (And frankly, they seem to be more and more out of place.)

[Benson]

Also, what is our stance on alien technology? Do we still keep those bits about spaceponies? They don't seem to be mentioned in

Well this canon'd stuff can't exist without the pesky aliens haven't had crashed landed, until we can figure out an alternative reason for the existence of these space metals.

On a random note, we do have the space metals that Balboa was scouring the planet to acquire. The same metal that the Cirrus uses on its balloon portion to protect it but yet at the same time does not weigh it down due to its special properties.

The space metal has also been used by Balboa as the only material that has been able to contain the volatile energies that are the magical nukes he's been researching and creating.

I just figured I'd mentioned this so its not forgotten about and doesn't look like some sort of butt pull when its mentioned again in game.

-------


also...who is up with the cirrus going to the guardhouse stuff? did that scene get stuck? and who is really going to play the guard captain?

[TheAmishPirate]

On the new shimmerite: Initial impressions with me are good. I shall wait and see what folks have to say about it, as well as mull over it myself.

Some more food for thought while I'm waiting for consensus on my latest proposal.

I believe I recall a map being released by Hasbro for Equestria. While that map does not adequately reflect our alternate Equestria, I'm thinking we can base our initial map off it, yes? I might try to sketch a map and see what I can come up with. (Don't mind my horribad MSPaint skills.)

I believe I posted both the Hasbro map and a fan-made one for consideration a few pages back. Hold on a second...

On maps:

Here's a version of the "offical" map of Equestria: http://images.wikia.com/mlp/images/1...on_2012-08.jpg

And here's a fan version which includes a ton of other material: http://mashupforge.com/929/j6qC50FQV...1.75781250&z=2

There you go! I'm all for doodling like crazy over one of these. Additionally, I feel as though Equestria the nation should be divided based on the control of the nobles (since they seem to be the ones with all the actual power/actual authority in the land) as well as where the independent areas lie.

Also, what is our stance on alien technology? Do we still keep those bits about spaceponies? (and other pony races for that matter) They don't seem to be mentioned in the RP of late. (And frankly, they seem to be more and more out of place.)

I say we keep the alien tech, as it's the main explanation for the frankly meteoric tech boom in our setting.

As for the other pony races, I'd like to hear what folks have to say. On the one hoof, they have always been a part of this setting and added a bit of flavor to it, but on the other, nopony ever uses them and they are seeming a bit out-of-place.

also...who is up with the cirrus going to the guardhouse stuff? did that scene get stuck? and who is really going to play the guard captain?

I'm still very busy, so if somepony else (MCerberus, are you up for this again?) could take the Captain, I'd appreciate it.

[Grif]

Forgot about this.

That's workable, I guess. Does it react to magic aligned with it at all, though?

Good question. I suspect same alignment attacks would further empower to armour. But only to a limit. Also it doesn't render you totally immune. If there's a physical component or non-aligned magic that accompanies said attack, you will still get splattered. For (a ridiculous) example. one won't be immune to a holy meteor, since big chunk of rock will still splatter you flat, regardless of how holy it was.

Well this canon'd stuff can't exist without the pesky aliens haven't had crashed landed, until we can figure out an alternative reason for the existence of these space metals.

Fair enough. Forgot how upjumped in tech our Equestria seems to be. Hmmm.

[PurityIcekiller]

Good question. I suspect same alignment attacks would further empower to armour. But only to a limit. Also it doesn't render you totally immune. If there's a physical component or non-aligned magic that accompanies said attack, you will still get splattered. For (a ridiculous) example. one won't be immune to a holy meteor, since big chunk of rock will still splatter you flat, regardless of how holy it was.

I see. I guess that means that casters like Flare would do better, since rocks and such tend to be physical. Now, one more question: How does one alter the metal with magic?

As for aliens, I have no objections.

[Kelvin360]

In brief: Leery of aliens, fine with the Shimmerite changes.

EDIT: Oh! I was just reminded. Would the new Gloomium's weapons still leave wounds corrupted?

[Benson]

I say we keep the alien tech, as it's the main explanation for the frankly meteoric tech boom in our setting.

As for the other pony races, I'd like to hear what folks have to say. On the one hoof, they have always been a part of this setting and added a bit of flavor to it, but on the other, nopony ever uses them and they are seeming a bit out-of-place.

Forgot about this.
Fair enough. Forgot how upjumped in tech our Equestria seems to be. Hmmm.

We can forego the alien ponies themselves and offer up a different explanation for the existence of some of the alien tech, though really the only alien tech that has been introduced as far as I remember is the space metal.

As for the upjump tech in our Equestria, that can be easily explained away because of the war. During wartime, technology has a way of advancing itself due to the need to do so....

[TheAmishPirate]

In brief: Leery of aliens, fine with the Shimmerite changes.

EDIT: Oh! I was just reminded. Would the new Gloomium's weapons still leave wounds corrupted?

Seeing how it's been a plot point before, it's fair to say that something corrupts the wounds. It may not be an inherent property of Gloomium, it may just end up being a spell effect that somepony slapped on their weapons.

That said, I do kinda like the idea of Gloomium leaving long-lasting, painful, or (in severe cases) necrotic damage behind, while Shimmerite generally goes for the quick mercy kill. And that would go with the idea of the metal being a tad brittle in its purest form, so if you made weapons that were lined with the stuff...

[Luka]

I kinda like the idea actually, empowered shimmerite would mean that while used it would be able to evade "linear warriors quadratic wizards" and give magic armor and still allow for channeling magic for Warrior/archer skills........Wait, wasn't it said that shimmerite could be somewhat stronger than steel?

Egh.... That would need to make Colt!Luka's armor even thicker, weight doesn't matter he has a Conditioned-like perk, unless Rusty Falls could have Mithril too but that's doubtful.

[Grif]

I kinda like the idea actually, empowered shimmerite would mean that while used it would be able to evade "linear warriors quadratic wizards" and give magic armor and still allow for channeling magic for Warrior/archer skills........Wait, wasn't it said that shimmerite could be somewhat stronger than steel?

Egh.... That would need to make Colt!Luka's armor even thicker, weight doesn't matter he has a Conditioned-like perk, unless Rusty Falls could have Mithril too but that's doubtful.

Well, one can't have everything. In a way, I'm trying to force trade-offs in using this armour. Sure, you might have protection against magical abilities, but alloyed shimmerite is still breakable and indeed, still possible for non-magical foes to overcome. Just that steel armour is steel, so it isn't easy to begin with.

[Luka]

Well, one can't have everything. In a way, I'm trying to force trade-offs in using this armour. Sure, you might have protection against magical abilities, but alloyed shimmerite is still breakable and indeed, still possible for non-magical foes to overcome. Just that steel armour is steel, so it isn't easy to begin with.

I was asking because I thought that was kinda odd since it's toughness was used a LOT of times and was one of Luka's main traits: His armor's really tough and he's tough against magical foes, but he does almost no damage.

[PurityIcekiller]

Since I'm not particularly fond of being ignored...

Now, one more question: How does one alter the metal with magic?

[Grif]

Since I'm not particularly fond of being ignored...

Sorry, still thinking about how to answer that part. I'm leaning towards any direct application of magic towards it would alter it, but I have a feeling that might be not what you mean.

[Kelvin360]

Would it be reasonable to assume that Daniel's exposure to politics via Taylor and Moonshine would allow him to recognize that symbol and some relevant facts about it's house?

[PurityIcekiller]

Sorry, still thinking about how to answer that part. I'm leaning towards any direct application of magic towards it would alter it, but I have a feeling that might be not what you mean.

Sort of. I'm mostly trying to figure out a way to make Night Jewel be something other than completely useless against someone in such armour, really.

[Grif]

Sort of. I'm mostly trying to figure out a way to make Night Jewel be something other than completely useless against someone in such armour, really.

Mind, they're not superpowered villains in an untouchable suit of armour. They're still ponies, like any other. Well-trained and armed, maybe, but certainly not nigh invincible. And as with anyone clad in heavy armour would attest, they're slow, bulky and most certainly not agile.

[Kelvin360]

Hey Luka, can I get a more comprehensive list of organ damage put here? Sorry, but 'several of them' doesn't help a whole lot.

[PurityIcekiller]

Mind, they're not superpowered villains in an untouchable suit of armour. They're still ponies, like any other. Well-trained and armed, maybe, but certainly not nigh invincible. And as with anyone clad in heavy armour would attest, they're slow, bulky and most certainly not agile.

So no wall-jumping tricks to get out of an almost-instantly closing pit like they performed before. Good.

Night Jewel still can't do a lot against them, but I guess that's because she can't do a lot directly against most ponies. The most dangerous thing she could do in a fight is to sabotage equipment; otherwise, she pretty much dodges, disarms, or other defensive things. It would still be nice if she could work with the metal she's got, but otherwise, I think I can manage. My other characters are at least somewhat less helpless (except Blades, since she's currently incapacitated).