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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    In this strip(879) Malack says to Durkon that 'Let us find Tarquin so that we may be done with the place.'

    This impiles that Malack does not know what the gate is all about. In order to use the gate somehow, one has to occupy and fortify the gate for a prolonged period of time.

    In strip 872, Malack suggested compromise, but his terms was not acceptable to the order at all. Considering that he genuinly wanted compromise, this again affirmes that Malack and Tarquin do not know about the nature of the gate.

    Their bahavior makes sense if they believed that what lies in Girald's pyramid is some sort of a movable superweapon. Tarquin and Malack can remove the weapon and be done with the place. OOTS can afford to give up acquiring such a weapon, and may go after lesser challanges.

    Either Nale is lying to Tarquin & Malack or he himself is being lied to by Sabine.

    Now they will try to gain information from Durkon, and they have no reason to doubt him.

    The gate has almost no use gor Tarquin and Malack. They do not have the ritual to control Snarl, and it is highly doubtful whether Nergal will approve of such an attempt-Nergal was one of the gods who sealed Snarl in the first place.

    So the only use of the gate for Tarquin and Malack is for blackmail, but it won't be effective.

    First, they have to control the Kragor's gate as well, and it won't be an easy feat to achieve.

    Second, Tarquin wants to leave a legacy, and Malack wants to maintain an everlasting order, so their threat of world destruction is not credable at all.

    In fact, they have just as much of an incentive to protect the gate from the team evil as the OOTS-a rule by a crazy epic lich or world destruction are catastrophic for their interests as well.

    Tarquin and Malack may become an evil counterpart to Hinjo and help the order, and Roy may be flexible enough to accept the help.

    Freed Durkula may travel with the order under some secret orders of Malack. He has an incentive to help the order even as a vampire. He is still very lawful, so the OOTS can trust him to a degree. Durkon made a pledge to help Roy, and Durkula may feel that he is still bound by it.

    Durkula may fake being living with the help of Malack, and the OOTS may well believe him over Belkar, thus providing interesting party dynamic.

    Durkula may tempt Vi to persue undeath so that she may escape the eternal damnation that surely awaits her.

    Durkula as a member of the OOTS is surely much more interesting than the old rather blend Durkon. (May he rest in peace)

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Srinshee; 2013-03-11 at 12:56 PM. Reason: typo

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Shojo told Nale what OotS knew of the gate, Nale told Tarquin and Malak apparently everything... soooo.... what's Sabine got in all this?

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Heavens, no. One evil psychopat in the Order is well enough.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Last time they trusted Tarquin to help them save the world, they ended up with an undead dwarf.
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    I'm just gonna skip the whole explenation and go "Hell no!!!"
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Before Durkon got vamped I would have said maybe. Certainly, I think it's very possible that Tarquin and Malack might offer to help. Tarquin has made it clear he doesn't want the world to end, and therefore is willing to help their quest.

    The problem is whether any of the Order would accept such an offer at this point. As long as they don't know that Durkon's been vamped? Possible, but I think unlikely. Once they find find out though, I think the chances that they would cooperate are almost nil.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaije9841 View Post
    Shojo told Nale what OotS knew of the gate, Nale told Tarquin and Malak apparently everything... soooo.... what's Sabine got in all this?
    Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.

    Tarquin is probably more likely to join Team Evil than OoTS.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zmeoaice View Post
    Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.

    Tarquin is probably more likely to join Team Evil than OoTS.
    I don't see Team Evil having a use for Tarquin, other than maybe as raw materials. Besides, the Giant already did the "Evil: We're always hiring!" joke.

    Tarquin may be a smooth operator, but he has literally nothing of interest to offer Xykon.

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shred-Bot View Post
    I don't see Team Evil having a use for Tarquin...
    Team Evil does not have a high-level fighter.
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyAnonymous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shred-Bot View Post
    I don't see Team Evil having a use for Tarquin...
    Team Evil does not have a high-level fighter.
    Do they need one?
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino Quartz View Post
    Do they need one?
    "Having a use for" and "need" aren't the same thing. They didn't need Tsukiko either.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    On top of that, with Redcloak constantly being an inch away from betraying Xykon, they may have need of a new cleric in the future.

    In which case, Malack or Durkula could be valid replacements. And being undead, Malack might find some common ground with Xykon. (Okay, I think there's only like a 10% chance this could happen, but it still could.)

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Srinshee View Post
    This impiles that Malack does not know what the gate is all about. In order to use the gate somehow, one has to occupy and fortify the gate for a prolonged period of time.
    And who knows this? Aside from Redcloak and Xykon?

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyAnonymous View Post
    Team Evil does not have a high-level fighter.
    Tarquin's master plan is pretty much the opposite of Xykon's. Tarquin aims to avoid the retribution that inevitably strikes scenery-chewing villains by maintaining a (relatively) low profile. Whereas Xykon's idea of "low profile" is only nuking one country at a time.

    For Tarquin to join Team Evil would be completely out of character.

    I can see him doing a deal with them, though. Currently I suspect he's planning to ransom the gate to them, in exchange for (some sort of binding pledge) to leave his continent alone, plus maybe some exchange of services/favours. That would be well within character.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    I see Tarquin as a player of the "prisoner's dilemma".

    What is Tarquin's primary motivation? To control the gate himself. Otherwise he'd have no reason to oppose the OOTS. If all he cared about was stopping Team Evil, he'd have been best served by allying with OOTS from the start. Then Durkon would still be alive, and probably unaware of Malack's status. they could hit the ruins together as one big group.

    So long as Tarquin believes he can control the gate himself, he must oppose the OOTS.

    That could change if he actually fights team evil and finds he cannot prevent them from wresting control of the gate from him. At which point his alternatives are to ally with the OOTS , or let the world be destroyed. In which case a rational villain WOULD ally with the heroes. A temporary alliance of convenience, but one we should be able to trust provided it remains in the self-interest of both parties.

    The problem is we saw at the free city of doom that Tarquin is not always good about keeping the spirit of his word even if he fulfills the letter. Which means I'm not sure Roy would be wise to trust him to have his back.

    In a way, it's a culminating tragedy of what is already shaping up to be a tragic, tragic book in the series -- that those people who have the best potential and are best place to oppose Team Evil squander their strength in inter-party conflict instead of presenting a united front against Xykon. But I suppose that's the nature of evil, which Tarquin is.

    Tarquin's biggest error is that he thinks he is the Big Bad when he's just a side villain, an also-ran. Thus he winds up sucking up oxygen and time better spent fighting the real threat. But asking Tarquin to have the humility to be something other than the center of attention, to aspire to being the main villain, is to ask Tarquin not to be Tarquin.


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    Brian P.
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Tarquin/Malack have shown that in the interests of pragmatism, they'll work with just about anyone (Malack especially.) However, Roy just found out that Malack murdered Durkon and reanimated him as a living (sort of) mockery of everything that Durkon believed in... no way Roy's working with the snake vampire.

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    *I* think Roy will put that 18 intelligence to work and review the options as follows:

    1) Fight a vampire cleric AND a lich
    2) get the vampire to fight the lich

    and choose the second, if at all feasible. One doesn't have to ally with someone to decide that fighting them is not the best course of action at this time. Especially after they've just taken your own cleric away and added it to their team.

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    Brian P.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyAnonymous View Post
    Team Evil does not have a high-level fighter.
    They have MitD, who given what we've seen so far would be a much stronger melee fighter than Tarquin. And it's not like anyone can take them in a straight-up fight right now.

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyAnonymous View Post
    Team Evil does not have a high-level fighter.
    That's like saying 'sure, the Miami Heat have three of the greatest superstars of the modern era, but what they really need is a better reserve point guard.' Sure, they don't have a top level fighter, but even without one they're light years ahead of the competition.

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    *I* think Roy will put that 18 intelligence to work and review the options as follows:

    1) Fight a vampire cleric AND a lich
    2) get the vampire to fight the lich

    and choose the second, if at all feasible. One doesn't have to ally with someone to decide that fighting them is not the best course of action at this time. Especially after they've just taken your own cleric away and added it to their team.

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    Brian P.
    Roy doesn't have 18 Int.
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Maybe, but it's fairly high. High enough that I think it doesn't invalidate my point.

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Maybe, but it's fairly high. High enough that I think it doesn't invalidate my point.

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    It most certainly doesn't. When reading arguments, people can get far too caught up in the details.

    I would think, though, that Roy's Lawful alignment would prevent him from making any deal with Malack after what he did to Durkon, stemming from a sense of loyalty. In the same way that Durkon wouldn't compromise with Malack, I doubt that Roy will.
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Tarquin certainly wouldn't ally with Team Evil. Doesn't work with loose cannons, remember?

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    MALACK KILLED DURKON! OOTS looking over that would be completely out of character. And stupid.

    I'm expecting battle betwen LG and Team Evil soon. Haley, Belkar, Roy and Elan have to find V, Girard's gate, destroy it before it falls to Tarquin's or Xykon's hands, and run as fast as they can to Kraagor's gate. LG fighting with Team Evil would be great chance for them to escape unnoticed.

    Not to mention, it would be great to see Malack vs Redcloak duel (hopefully, not this http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html).

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    I suspect Nale wasn't honest about the Gate, or who knows the ritual, or how to get that ritual away from them. Nale may not exactly know himself. Roy doesn't have to ask for an alliance with Tarquin in order to secure his help; all he has to do is explain why he thinks it's important to protect the Gate.
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    I don't think Roy would work with the killer of Durkon.
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    I don't think the oots would want to make a pact with the linear guild. however, they may be forced into one if team evil appeared. Together, they are strong enough to challenge xykon. divided, they die. Tarquin have no interest in Xykon taking the gate. in fact, it would risk all his plan. Xykon is not the sort of villain that would acccept compromise. Xykon wants absolute dominion, and would never share the gate with tarquin. he would take tarquin as a minion or as a zombie.
    so tarquin would have plenty of reasons to ally with the order.
    Roy would be reluctant, but Tarquin alone could take all the current members of the oots single-handed. he don't really have much choice. I expect that, if they are forced to work together, they will plan to backstab each other along the way.
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    I see Tarquin as a player of the "prisoner's dilemma".

    What is Tarquin's primary motivation? To control the gate himself. Otherwise he'd have no reason to oppose the OOTS. If all he cared about was stopping Team Evil, he'd have been best served by allying with OOTS from the start. Then Durkon would still be alive, and probably unaware of Malack's status. they could hit the ruins together as one big group.

    So long as Tarquin believes he can control the gate himself, he must oppose the OOTS

    ...

    Tarquin's biggest error is that he thinks he is the Big Bad when he's just a side villain, an also-ran. Thus he winds up sucking up oxygen and time better spent fighting the real threat. But asking Tarquin to have the humility to be something other than the center of attention, to aspire to being the main villain, is to ask Tarquin not to be Tarquin.
    My guess is Tarquin's true primarily target is Elan. He could have swatted aside the Order by gathering the full team together for 2-3 days. He is purposefully playing around, in order to inject more family drama into Elan's life, and attempt to intertwine his legacy with Elan's.

    Besides, it is not clear that working with Xykon is practical or possible. Even if Tarquin can see a way to haggle a deal, Malack has his own ideas about who gets to claim personal ownership of this continent.

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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    I think the parallel is perfect: becoming the thing you hate, turning to the dark side, through self-sacrifice. It was hinted that Roy uses non-Lawful means to achieve Lawful ends.
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    Default Re: Couldn't Tarquin/Malack work with the OOTS now?

    Even if we overlook that "Why the hell would the Order work with Malack ever again?!" factor, the Order has no new knowledge to offer that would change the current situation. Tarquin is aware of what the Gates are; he 'knows' that there is a Team Evil out there with the knowledge of how to control the Gates. The only people who are aware that Tarquin&co. can't control the gate are Redcloak and the Dark One. All the Order can do is point out that Team Evil is way stronger than what they know about Malack and Tarquin, which is just so much noise to Tarquin since concealing his strength is a habit. Plus, he probably has a high opinion of his ability to manipulate powerful opponents like Team Evil.

    So not only does this outcome make no sense from a common-sense standpoint, it makes no sense from the standpoint of cold calculation either.
    Last edited by Math_Mage; 2013-03-13 at 05:05 PM.

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