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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    For those who are younger than about 35...http://www.ultimatedallas.com/episod...eamzonefaq.htm

    So...anyone hoping that this is all some sort of dream sequence/illusory test/etc?

    Would it ruin the story for you if it were?

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Yes, because "it was all just a dream" is lazy, hack writing and a cheap copout to boot.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sam79's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    I think that would be, to say the least, pretty lame.
    The prison was full of British officers who had sworn to die, rather than be captured.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    The final strip will be Elan as an autistic boy playing with miniatures while reading a 3.5e handbook.
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    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    It only only be funny if it was a double sike out and in the same comic. as to not waste time.
    Have Belkar think it was all Girard's illusion, then wake up and realize it's real and they're sol.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorm_the_DBA View Post
    For those who are younger than about 35...http://www.ultimatedallas.com/episod...eamzonefaq.htm

    So...anyone hoping that this is all some sort of dream sequence/illusory test/etc?

    Would it ruin the story for you if it were?
    That would be the absolute most awful, terrible, insulting plot twist imaginable.

    Who would hope that all this plot and character development is just a dream? I would seriously question if the author had gone completely insane.

    No. The Dallas "twist" was widely reviled in it's day and for good reason. It's simply the laziest form of tying up a plot line that has ever been invented. It renders the entire story (in this case an entire season) pointless, and is nothing more than a giant "HA HA!" to anyone watching. That "HA HA!" increases in direct correlation to the length of the "fake" story. You can get away with it in very small doses, but not when it contains what the audience believes are major plot points. You're basically destroying any sense of uncertainty in the story, because now they don't know if that major threat is real or "just a dream! HA HA!". Imagine Roy's death, or the entire battle of Azure City if we had that albatross lurking in the back of our minds. It would have had no impact, becasue we'd be expecting the "It was just a dream!" twist coming up any minute now.


    (Please note that this is for drama/ongoing stories that build on themselves. Something like, say, the Stewie Kills Lois episode or the American Dad Apocalypse episodes are funny because those shows AREN'T built on character or plot development.)
    Last edited by NerdyKris; 2013-03-13 at 02:55 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    pendell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    It would also be a ....

    ...drumroll...

    A Deus Ex Machina! Yes! A plot twist pulled out of nowhere to fix a plot when the author has painted himself into a corner! It may not quite be the dictionary definition but it'll do.

    Now you folks excuse me while I go wash my hands. Just typing the DEM word makes me feel all dirty. Everytime someone types that phrase on this forum, The Death Star blows up a planet filled with cute kittens and fluffy bunnies and smiling, chirping birds.

    AND NOW THEY'RE ALL DEAD, BECAUSE YOU MADE ME USE THE PHRASE!

    Wanders away sadly,

    Brian P.
    "Opportunities to do good are everywhere but the darkness is where the light needs to be".

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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Nah. A deus ex machina at least resolves the plot line somehow. "It was all a dream" just ignores it. Like a show cancelled on a cliffhanger.

    I'm not saying there's no good way to do "It was all a dream". But the uncertainty about reality has to be there from the start, not revealed at the end. Like the Buffy episode where she isn't sure if she was in an insane asylum. (Although that plot line is a ridiculous cliche, it did allow for some fourth wall breaking meta discussion of the show's plot)

    The fact that the Draketooth clan casts illusions isn't enough. There would have to have been other signs. Plus, this is the culmination of plot threads for several characters. It would completely destroy any character development of V if they suddenly said "Oh, you didn't really murder all the Draketooths!". V would rationalize that therefore it was not likely that the Black Dragons ever mated with humans, just like before.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    I was still considering the possibility that this was all/mostly Girard's Phantasmagorical Holodeck of Horrors... but it seems realy, really unlikely and undesirable at this point.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Invalidating the story without foreshadowing makes it irrelevant and anything that might happen in the future might also be a dream, ultimately undermining the story.
    So no. Durkon is no more, there is only Durkula.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    As everyone else says, making this all be illusion/dream would be the most horrendous cop-out in the history of horrendous cop-outs. Not to mention: who is having this dream, if that's what it is?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    As everyone else says, making this all be illusion/dream would be the most horrendous cop-out in the history of horrendous cop-outs. Not to mention: who is having this dream, if that's what it is?
    Clearly Roy. It's his worst nightmare, of course - Durkon worse than dead, Belkar not.

    This is all part of Gerard's devious trap.

    ... people liked it when 8-bit theater ended with an enormous copout, right?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Well, thank you for reminding me how much I loathe the Internet on April 1st. I will be making extra reminders for myself to avoid it this year, especially GitP.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageWombat View Post
    ... people liked it when 8-bit theater ended with an enormous copout, right?
    Clevinger's light warriors weren't even at the first temple yet when that happened.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Math_Mage's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    OP doesn't even coherently establish which part of the story is supposed to be a dream. So, really, this is just a hypothetical about dream sequences for the sake of having dream sequences, which is a miserable idea.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    pearl jam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Ha ha. I thought last year's Ponies in the Playground bit was pretty amusing.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Bulldog Psion's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    The dream sequence idea is one of the foulest, most disappointing ways to totally wreck someone's enjoyment of something, ever. "It was all a dream" sucks. Completely, totally, and without exception, IMO.

    Since Mr. Burlew is a skilled author, I doubt that he will turn his story into a big airy nil like that.
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    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
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    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    V wakes up lying in bed next to Bob Neuhart in a Chicago apartment

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    The dream sequence idea is one of the foulest, most disappointing ways to totally wreck someone's enjoyment of something, ever. "It was all a dream" sucks. Completely, totally, and without exception, IMO.

    Since Mr. Burlew is a skilled author, I doubt that he will turn his story into a big airy nil like that.
    Well, it has its place in sitcom television,l for those cheap "what if" scenarios, but even then...

    ...and it isn't like those are the pinnacle of writing, anyway.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Hoping for a "Bobby Ewing Moment" is like hoping for someone to kick you in the groin, or hoping for someone to poke needles in your eyes.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    The only point where it might have been funny if is Tsukiko were still alive, and for a page, she dreams that Xykon finally returned her love, but the dream ends next page. Then again, that comic would be just filler, and it's too late for it now.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    GigaGuess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Understand, "It was all just a dream" is a full on reset button. Everything snaps back. No Durklua, yeah, but also no V dealing with the ramifications of his actions, no Belkar seeming inexplicably shaken over a sacrifice on his behalf, whatever characterization has happened...gone.

    To say people would feel cheated is an understatement.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    The dream sequence idea is one of the foulest, most disappointing ways to totally wreck someone's enjoyment of something, ever. "It was all a dream" sucks. Completely, totally, and without exception, IMO.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. There are plenty of instances of 'Dream Episodes' where it worked, both on action/adventure type shows and comedies where it is seen more often.

    All Just a Dream.

    Now where it tends to work more often (in non-comedic examples) is if there is foreshadowing that Something Just Ain't Right Here or if it is self-contained in an episode. Or if there is an EXTREMLY justified Real Life reason for it (Married With Children comes to mind). It works even better if there is lasting consequences for the character. They learned something about themselves or others as a part of the dream.

    But here? I think there is very very very very <INSERT LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF VERY'S> very little chance it could really pay off. And I think it is even a smaller chance that it is something that Rich is remotely interested in.
    Last edited by Porthos; 2013-03-13 at 10:12 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Yeah. No.

    The current plotline is truly horrifying and I hate it, so much so that I now have a feeling of dread instead of anticipation when I see an update. I'm starting to wish I'd never discovered the comic until it was well past this arc.

    But "just a dream" wouldn't resolve any of that: it would mean that the author was messing with me just for fun, rather than in the interests of furthering the story.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Nobody is hoping for that. Nobody.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

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    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    rodneyAnonymous's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    No I am not.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Sincere question: disregarding self-contained elements (episodes, installments, whatever) of a story where it's revealed before the element is over, has there ever been an ending of this type that people actually liked?

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Sincere question: disregarding self-contained elements (episodes, installments, whatever) of a story where it's revealed before the element is over, has there ever been an ending of this type that people actually liked?
    Newhart comes to mind as the embodiment of the Good Use of this.

    ETA: And, as I referenced earlier, I think the audience 'accepted' the use of it in Married With Children when they found out the RL reason for it (Katey Sagal's miscarriage).
    Last edited by Porthos; 2013-03-13 at 10:43 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    The dream sequence idea is one of the foulest, most disappointing ways to totally wreck someone's enjoyment of something, ever. "It was all a dream" sucks. Completely, totally, and without exception, IMO.
    It wasn't so bad with the North American version of Super Mario Bros. 2. Not great literature, certainly, but I think people prefer that Subcon didn't exist.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillingAScarab View Post
    It wasn't so bad with the North American version of Super Mario Bros. 2. Not great literature, certainly, but I think people prefer that Subcon didn't exist.
    Anyone who read the instruction booklet knew Subcon was Dreamland. It starts with Mario being told in a dream to save them. He then falls out of bed and goes on a picnic where he finds the door.

    Oh yeah, and they say "Welcome to Subcon, the land of dreams". So not the twist people like to pretend it was nowadays. It was intended to be clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Sincere question: disregarding self-contained elements (episodes, installments, whatever) of a story where it's revealed before the element is over, has there ever been an ending of this type that people actually liked?

    edit- I totally missed the disregarding part of your question. So a lot of these don't count.


    There was a Superman story where he thought he was still on Krypton that's considered a classic. (Mogul used a plant creature on his chest)

    Inception is technically one of those, even though we know it's a dream throughout.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind as well.

    Picard on Star Trek once dreamt he spent an entire lifetime on another planet. A plot point repeated twice on Deep Space Nine and I believe on Voyager as well, all with good episodes.

    There's plenty of examples, but they all have one thing in common. Only one character is being focused on, there are hints that it's not real, or outright knowing it isn't, and it's not used as a reset button, but a method of introspection.

    Oh, and House of M and Age of X, but I can't speak to the quality of those.

    Oh, and that fantastic season finale of House where he kills the patient and doesn't wake up for a minute, leading him and the viewers to believe that the "It's all a dream" statements were a red herring.
    Last edited by NerdyKris; 2013-03-13 at 11:25 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chilingsworth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is anyone hoping for a Bobby Ewing Moment?

    It might be alright if something like this happened at the end of the comic. (Say, maybe we meet the players behind the Order and the DM or something.)

    Now, absolutely not.
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