Number of Character Appearances V

[Cizak]

Should we also note that Durkon appears here as alive, too?

No. Durkon being alive is still his "default appearance", as he's got more alive appearances than vampire ones. Until he's got more appearances as a vampire than as alive, we don't need to note the alive ones.

[Flame of Anor]

932: Tarquin, Julio Scoundrel, Vaarsuvius, Blackwing, Durkon (as vampire) (as bat), Roy Greenhilt, Haley Starshine, Elan, Belkar Bitterleaf, Mr. Scruffy, Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator (as lizard)

[Chronos]

No. Durkon being alive is still his "default appearance", as he's got more alive appearances than vampire ones. Until he's got more appearances as a vampire than as alive, we don't need to note the alive ones.

I'm just thinking ahead: If we do get to that point, then it's going to be a royal pain to figure out how many living appearances he has.

[oppyu]

I'm just thinking ahead: If we do get to that point, then it's going to be a royal pain to figure out how many living appearances he has.

Can't we just go total appearances minus undead appearances?

[martianmister]

Updated through 932
Belkar Bitterleaf, Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator (as lizard), Blackwing, Durkon Thundershield (as Vampire) (as Bat), Elan, Haley Starshine, Julio Scoundrél, Mr. Scruffy, Roy Greenhilt, Tarquin, Vaarsuvius

[Emanick]

Can't we just go total appearances minus undead appearances?

Not necessarily. For instance, he already has an undead appearance and a living appearance in one comic.

But this is probably a nonissue, as I don't see things getting to that point. The story is definitely well over half over. I don't even know if we have 350 strips left, let alone 350 for Durkon to appear in.

[Nimrod's Son]

Durkon being alive is not an "interesting alteration" even if he does end up appearing in more strips as a vampire. I'd say becoming undead is the alteration and it should stay that way regardless.

[Yendor]

933: Bandana, Belkar, Elan, Eyepatched crewman, Haley, Julio Scoundrél (+1), Laurin (+1), Roy, Tarquin (+1), Vaarsuvius

"Bandana" gets a second appearance after 931. The eyepatched crewman is from 392 and currently listed in the Extras.

Edit: On second glance, the other guy in panel 1 also looks like he appears in 392, as one of the crewmen dropping alchemist's fire. Looks like he's got the same scar.

[martianmister]

Updated through 933
Bandana, Belkar Bitterleaf, Elan, Haley Starshine, Julio Scoundrél (+1), Julio Scoundrél's Crewman with eyepatch, Julio Scoundrél's Crewman with scar, Laurin Shattersmith (+1), Roy Greenhilt, Tarquin (+1), Vaarsuvius

[Procyonpi]

Just a minor point of form, wouldn't in be simper to call the unnamed crew members "Mechane Crewman [descriptor]"

[martianmister]

Just a minor point of form, wouldn't in be simper to call the unnamed crew members "Mechane Crewman [descriptor]"

Maybe I should call them "Julio's Crew/wo/man etc" without his surname? Dunno.

Lately I thought about the thread and decided to reorganize it. Some ideas:

* Because of data overload, "cameos" are moved to Extras/Bonus material post.

* Extras/Bonus material and Alterations are moved into different posts.

* Some proposed name changes:
- "Incidental Characters" will be renamed as "Minor Characters".
- "Frequent Characters" will be merged with "Major Characters".
- "Minor Characters" and "Infrequent Characters" will be merged as "Supportive Characters".

Any thoughts or proposals?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Maybe I should call them "Julio's Crew/wo/man etc" without his surname? Dunno.

Lately I thought about the thread and decided to reorganize it. Some ideas:

* Because of data overload, "cameos" are moved to Extras/Bonus material post.

* Extras/Bonus material and Alterations are moved into different posts.

* Some proposed name changes:
- "Incidental Characters" will be renamed as "Minor Characters".
- "Frequent Characters" will be merged with "Major Characters".
- "Minor Characters" and "Infrequent Characters" will be merged as "Supportive Characters".

Any thoughts or proposals?

As fellow masochist curator, I'd say you don't need consensus for moving things between posts, since the constraint is character limit, rather than organisational. Do what you gotta do.

As thread participant, I agree that Minor and Infrequent can be merged. I'm neutral on the name changes, since I barely notice them anyway, so I'll be happy to support your decision.

Yours,

Grey Wolf

[Sir_Leorik]

Maybe I should call them "Julio's Crew/wo/man etc" without his surname? Dunno.

I think referring to them as "Mechane [crewmember]" is sufficient.

Lately I thought about the thread and decided to reorganize it. Some ideas:

* Because of data overload, "cameos" are moved to Extras/Bonus material post.

* Extras/Bonus material and Alterations are moved into different posts.

* Some proposed name changes:
- "Incidental Characters" will be renamed as "Minor Characters".
- "Frequent Characters" will be merged with "Major Characters".
- "Minor Characters" and "Infrequent Characters" will be merged as "Supportive Characters".

Any thoughts or proposals?

How about "Recurring Characters" instead of "Supportive Characters"?

[martianmister]

How about "Recurring Characters" instead of "Supportive Characters"?

Sounds good.

[Emanick]

- "Frequent Characters" will be merged with "Major Characters".
- "Minor Characters" and "Infrequent Characters" will be merged as "Supportive Characters".

Any thoughts or proposals?

Personally, as a data-oriented person, I enjoy having that number of different tiers in the first post; it gives the reader a little more perspective on just how varied numbers of character appearances have been over the years. It would make me sad if you merged those categories.

But if you've got a good reason, go for it, of course.

[martianmister]

Something I just noticed:

In the second page, first panel you can see little dot-heads. I think three ones at the front is Roy, Bandana and Elan because they have same skin colour. Should I count them?

[ChristianSt]

Something I just noticed:

In the second page, first panel you can see little dot-heads. I think three ones at the front is Roy, Bandana and Elan because they have same skin colour. Should I count them?

I think we shouldn't count them, because that is pure speculation who is depicted and who not. I would list them only if we can somehow identify all six, too. It would be somewhat odd to include not all of them.

As for the three in front being Roy, Bandana and Elan: From page 1, panel 10 the distance between Roy/Bandana and Bandana/Elan looks to be somewhat equal, while page 2, panel 1 would have changed that massively. Also then by comparison of skin color the other three should be V/Belkar/Haley, but seeing Belkar's head on the same height looks weird.

[Mike Havran]

Something I just noticed:

In the second page, first panel you can see little dot-heads. I think three ones at the front is Roy, Bandana and Elan because they have same skin colour. Should I count them?

I think that's likely, but it's not so decisive that I would count them.

And I think the list wouldn't look as good with less tiers. I'm in for aa change of names.

[Gift Jeraff]

How about

51+ : Major Characters
26-50: Prominent Characters
11-25: Infrequent Characters or Minor Characters (Recurring doesn't quite fit because characters like Leeky and Mama Dragon are mostly contained in a single chapter, therefore not Recurring)
2-10: Incidental Characters

[ti'esar]

(Recurring doesn't quite fit because characters like Leeky and Mama Dragon are mostly contained in a single chapter, therefore not Recurring)

For that same reason, I think Minor Characters works better than Infrequent Characters.

[Emanick]

How about

51+ : Major Characters
26-50: Prominent Characters
11-25: Infrequent Characters or Minor Characters (Recurring doesn't quite fit because characters like Leeky and Mama Dragon are mostly contained in a single chapter, therefore not Recurring)
2-10: Incidental Characters

I don't know, it's still a reduction in the number of tiers. I'd like to keep the tier structure the way it is, unless somebody wants to change the cutoff point between tiers.

For that same reason, I think Minor Characters works better than Infrequent Characters.

Seconded.

[ChristianSt]

I don't know, it's still a reduction in the number of tiers. I'd like to keep the tier structure the way it is, unless somebody wants to change the cutoff point between tiers.

Seeing that pretty much all boundaries are pretty arbitrary, I personally would even reduce the number of tiers even further.
I would only include the following three tiers:

1. Protagonists: The Order of the Stick - this category is fine at it is now.
2. Major Characters: All characters that are frequent enough. I would list them like the current "Major"/"Frequent" characters with smiley (possibly just merging the two sections)
3. Minor Characters: All characters that aren't frequent enough. I would list them like the current "Minor"/"Infrequent"/"Incidental" characters as text-only (possibly just merging the three sections)

I'm not sure on the labels, maybe something like "Prominent" and "Incidental" would be better.
I'm also not sure where we should do the cutoff between "Major"/"Minor". The current one is 30 strips. I think maybe a bit lower could be better (like 25 - It would add some prominent characters like Tsukiko, Ian or Eugene, but I would not set it lower than 20).
Another approach would be to not only consider main strips for this distinction but also bonus material and/or multi-page appearances - but using two different metrics is probably not a good idea.

[martianmister]

After considered other proposals, I made some changes:

R^D Protagonists
60+ Major Characters
25+ Secondary Characters (I guess that works?)
12+ Supportive Characters
05+ Recurring Characters ("Incidental Characters" is too big compared to others)
01+ Minor Characters (It suited for them better)
02- Cameos (same as before)

(Recurring doesn't quite fit because characters like Leeky and Mama Dragon are mostly contained in a single chapter, therefore not Recurring)

For that same reason, I think Minor Characters works better than Infrequent Characters.

Neither Minor Characters works for these characters.

[Flame of Anor]

I think we shouldn't count them, because that is pure speculation who is depicted and who not. I would list them only if we can somehow identify all six, too. It would be somewhat odd to include not all of them.

As for the three in front being Roy, Bandana and Elan: From page 1, panel 10 the distance between Roy/Bandana and Bandana/Elan looks to be somewhat equal, while page 2, panel 1 would have changed that massively. Also then by comparison of skin color the other three should be V/Belkar/Haley, but seeing Belkar's head on the same height looks weird.

I think it's pretty certainly Roy, Bandana, and Elan. Elan moved forward to direct the ballista shot.

[martianmister]

I think it's pretty certainly Roy, Bandana, and Elan. Elan moved forward to direct the ballista shot.

I think same way.

[ChristianSt]

I think it's pretty certainly Roy, Bandana, and Elan. Elan moved forward to direct the ballista shot.

He moved to the position he shot in panel 10. He has the same body position and we see the same rope in panel 11. We have no indication that he moved further.

[martianmister]

Sample:

Spoiler

Show

Updated through 933
Bandana (+1), Belkar Bitterleaf, Elan (+1), Haley Starshine, Julio Scoundrél (+1), Julio Scoundrél's Crewman with eyepatch, Julio Scoundrél's Crewman with scar, Laurin Shattersmith (+1), Roy Greenhilt (+1), Tarquin (+1), Vaarsuvius

Be sure to read the FAQ

Protagonists:
Roy Greenhilt (497+166+71)
Elan (472+145+62)
Haley Starshine (460+160+60)
Belkar Bitterleaf (419+145+43)
Vaarsuvius (367+111+35)
Durkon Thundershield (357+114+29)

Major Characters
(more than 60 appearances but fewer than Durkon)
Mr. Scruffy (131+27+16)
Nale (117+25+12)
Redcloak (100+99+14)
Xykon (100+96+16)
Blackwing (91+8+11)
Tarquin (89+12+13)
Sabine (79+23+2)
Hinjo (77+11+20)
Celia (74+23+12)
Monster in the Darkness (70+32+9)
Miko Miyazaki (68+19+12)
Thog (68+25+15)

Secondary Characters
(26 through 60 appearances)
Malack (58+1+3)
Demon-Roaches (55+31+9)
Zz'dtri (54+6+1)
Qarr (48+4)
O-Chul (43+6+9)
Lien (39+12+5)
Daigo Da- (36+3+5)
Shojo (36+16+12)
Eugene Greenhilt (29+33+4)
Tsukiko (29+2+3)
Kilkil (28+2+3)
Kazumi Kato (26+3+5)

Supporting Characters
(13 through 25 appearances)
25. Gannji (+1+1), Ian Starshine (+4+2)

24. Ho Thanh (+1+2)

23. Banjo (+16), Enor (+2+1)

22. Jirix (+5).

21. --

20. Empress of Blood (+5+2), Therkla (+10+2).

19. Niu (+1).

18. Cedrik (+3), Hilgya Firehelm (+6), Laurin Shattersmith (+1+2), Lee (+3), Nero (+3), Roy's Archon (+4)

17. Ganonron (+3), Jephton the Unholy (+3), Jones (+8), Julia Greenhilt (+2+2), Yikyik (+12)

16. Wight in Boots (+2)

15. Windstriker (+5+2)

14. Girard Draketooth (+3+4), Phil Rodriguez (+8), Thor (+7+1), Yukyuk (+1).

13. Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator (+2), Bozzok (+6), Crystal (+20+1), Daimyo Kubota (+1+2), Geoff (+1), Silver (+2), Whisper

Recurring Characters
(6 through 12 appearances)
12. Durkon's Barbed Devil aka "Spiky" (+1), Elan's Horse, Flumphs (+2), Leeky Windstaff (+2), Miron Shewdanker (+1+1)

11. Ancient Black Dragon (+4+4), Pompey (+4), Samantha's Dad (+1), Shadowdancer (+2), Solt's Donkey, Vaarsuvius' Horse, Zombie Dragon (+6+5).

10. Chief Cop of CPPD (+2+1), Durkon's Pony (+3), Hank (+9), Isamu, "Kaboom" Redaxe (+2), Oracle of the Sunken Valley (+3+2), Samantha.

9. Belkar's Riding Dog (+3), CPPD Cop with red hair (+4+1), Evisceratus, Eye of Fear and Flame (+3), Inkyrius (+2+1), Pit Fiend (+1), Soon Kim (+3+4).

8. Amun-Zora (+1), chief grukgruk, Draketooth with Braided Hair, Eyepatched Resistance Leader (+1), General Chang (+1), Julio Scoundrél (+11+4), Leeky's Trees, Zz'dtri's Piscodaemon.

7. Adolescent Black Dragon (+1), Argent (+1+1), Bandit with black skin, CPPD Cop with black skin (+1+1), Death Knight (+1), Gourntonk (+1), Grand Larcenist (+1+2), Haerta Bloodsoak (+1), Resistance Leader with top-knot (+1), Sara Greenhilt (+11+1), Second Level Bandit, Team Peregrine Commander, "Zit Boy"

6. Blue-bearded Sapphire Guardsman (+2), CPPD Woman Cop (+3+1), Eyepatched Sapphire Guardsman (+1), Funny Hat Bandit, Greysky Priest (+2), Jenny (+10+2), Light Guard Bandit, Pink-Haired Peregrine Team Member, Sangwaan (+2+2), shaman vurkle, Tarquin's Triceratops, Team Peregrine Lieutenant, Trigak, Vaarsuvius' Auburn-Haired Child (+1), Vaarsuvius' Green-Haired Child (+1)

Minor Characters
(2 through 5 appearances)
5. Azure City High Priest (+1), Balding Sapphire Guardsman (+1), Blue Crewcut Sapphire Guardsman, Bureaucratic Deva (+1), Captain Axe (+1), Clipboard Guard, Completely Bald Sapphire Guardsman (+1), CPPD Cop with blond hair (+1), Crewcut Sapphire Guardswoman (+1), crong, Dark Guard Bandit, Do-Ragged Sapphire Guardsman (+1), Draketooth Unresurrected (+1), Draketooth with Bodice, Draketooth with Goatee, Draketooth with Ponytail, Draketooth with Purple Shirt, Eyepatched Bandit, Goggled Sapphire Guardsman(+1+1), Hobgoblin General (+1+2), Horace Greenhilt (+1+3), Huecuva (+2), Jiaya(+2+2), Mustached Bandit, Razor (+1), Road to Adventure Sapphire Guardswoman (+1), Silicon Elemental, Snarl (+6+2), Tarquin's Pteranodon, Yokyok (+1)

4. Black-Haired Sapphire Guardsman, Brunchroom Barkeeper, Brunchroom Warlock, Casanova Bandit, Dirt Farmer's Wife (+3), Dorukan (+10+3), Dragon (+4+1), Draketooth Genealogy (+1), Draketooth Progenitor Dragon (+1), Draketooth with Belt, Eighth Level Greysky Rogue (+2), Elan's Mother (+6+1), Elder Hobgoblin, Eric Greenhilt, Fiendish Mammoth (+1), Giro (+1+1), Gladiator Warden, Goblin Teen w/Braces, Grey-cloaked Sapphire Guardsman, Grey-haired Sorcerer, Hieronymus Grubwiggler (+3), Hobgoblin Granary Browncloak (+1), Hobgoblin Priest with Orange Symbol, Kitty, Kubota's Samurai (+1), Lirian (+18+1), Loki (+2), Monkey (+1), Mouse-bag of tricks, Mr. Dragon (+1+1), mungu, Odin (+3+1), Old Blind Pete(+2), Purple-haired Sapphire Guardswoman (+1), Purple Spiky-haired Sapphire Guardsman (+1), Reddish Lizardfolk Gladiator, Short-Haired Bandit Girl, Sir Scraggly, Skeletal Steed (+1), Teal-haired Sapphire Guardswoman (+1), Team Peregrine Wizard, Ted (see FAQ), Turban-Wearing Caster (+1), Unshaven Gladiator, Vaarsuvius' Green Bird, Weaker Gladiator, White-helmeted Sapphire Guardsman (+1), Wingfooted Sapphire Guardsman, Wizard Guy, Yor (+2), Yunji (+2+1), Weasel-Eating Ogres

3. Armored Midriff-baring Sapphire Guardswoman, Azure City Noble with beard (+1), Azure City Noblewoman, Azure City priest with black hair, Azure City priest with blue beard, Balcony Guard, Bald Bearded Sapphire Guardsman, Balding Orc, Bearded Gladiator, Beaver from Bag of Tricks, Belkar's Dinosaur cover (+2), Big Green Bird at Air Sigil, Blond Bandit Guy, Blonde Bandit Girl, Blond Gladiator, Blue-cloaked Sapphire Guardsman, Blue-haired Sapphire Sorcerer, Blue Spike Haired Sapphire Guardsman, Brunchroom Lizardfolk Mook, Brunchroom Monk, Brunchroom Soulknife, Captain of Empress of Blood, Cat from Bag of Tricks, Chuck (+5+1), Dark-Goggled Sapphire Guardsman, Demon-Roach Bookie, Dockside Hobgoblin Cleric, Draketooth by Entrance, Draketooth Comedian, Elderly Slave, Elf Bandit, Enlarged Soldiers, Ereshkigal, Eyepatched Thief (+1), Female Camel Drover, Fiendish Octopus, Flying Sapphire Sorceress, Goblin who killed Fruitpie, Goblinoid Spy(+1), gok, Gortok the Destroyer, Green Flesh Golem (+2+1), Grey-Shirted Orc, Halfling Bandit, Hobgoblin Cleric #2, Hobgoblin Experimenters, Hobgoblin Sewer Priest, Human Experiments, Jacinda (+1+1), Lizardfolk Judge, Lockpicking Thief (+5+3), Long-bearded Scarred Orc, Mind Flayer (+1), Navy-haired Sapphire Guardsman, Nergal, Osmium Elemental, Penelope, Pepe, Pineappled Wight, Planetar-Thor's receptionist, Point-Granting Wight, Purple Worm, Red-Headed Thief (+1), Red Allosaurus' Rider (+1), Resistance Halberdier, Rooster (+2), Serini Toormuck (+2+2), Tan-loinclothed Orc, Tarquin's Brown Allosaurus, Tarquin's Brown Allosaurus' Rider, Teevo, Third Wight, Tiamat (+2), Tiger (+2), Titanium Elemental (+1), Unarmored Midriff-baring Sapphire Guardswoman, Vaarsuvius' Blue Bird, Vaarsuvius' Yellow Bird, Viking-helmed Sapphire Guardsman, Watchtower Guard

2. Aarindarius (+1), Acidborn Shark (+1), Amun-Zora's Gaoler, Arena Guard with Manual, Arena Guard with Manual's Partner, Ares, Azure City archmage, Azure City assistant cleric, Azure City Chef, Azure City long-haired priestess (+1), Azure City mustachioed priest, Azure City rooster, Azure City Rooster's Stepson, Azure City Swordsmith (+1), Badger-bag of tricks, Bandana (+1), Banjo's Love Interest, Bearded Devil Slain by Team Peregrine Commander, Belkar's Food Bearer, Belkar's Sapphire Guard Escort, Black Camel Drover, Black Camel Drover's son, Blue Bandana'd Sailor (+4), Blue-Haired Team Harrier Scout, Blue-Streaked Sapphire Guardswoman, Brontosaurus, Brother Hiram, Brownish Lizardfolk Gladiator, Brunchroom Human Mook, Ceruleaus, Chang's Captain, Cherubim, Chlorine Elemental, Clipboard Guard's Assistant, CPPD Cop with brown hair, Dark One (+11), Dead Shark Tank Hobgoblin, Doc of the Dead, Dog (+2), Dracolisk, Dragons near barbecue sauce trap, Draketooth, Armored, Earth Sigil Guardian, Elderly Camel Drover, Elderly Sapphire Guardswoman, Executioner Bandit, Fellow Medium-Sized Paladin, Female Low-Level Cleric, Female Ogre, Female Resistance Cleric, Fire ants, Fire Sigil Guardian, Flashbacked Scarabs, Fleeing Female Wedding Guest, Fleeing Male Wedding Guest, Giant Hellhound, Gladiatorial Spectators, Goat (+1), Goblin Dan (+1), Green Guy, Green Hag, Greenish Lizardfolk Gladiator, Guard Monster, Hades (+1), Hel, Hobgoblin Warrior from Strip #433 Panel 3, Hordlings, "Hors D'Oeuvres", Horse (+1), Hugin and Munin (+1), Hydra, Inkeeper of destroyed inn, Julia's blue friend, Julio Scoundrél's Crewman with eyepatch (+3), Julio Scoundrél's Crewman with scar, Julio Scoundrél's Crewwoman with bandana (+4), Kidnapped dirt farmer (+2), Kidnapper, King of Somewhere, Kraagor (+3+1), Male Resistance Cleric (+1), Marduk (+3+1), Mijung, Mr. Guard, Notseenicus, Oil Steward, Old Man with Cryptic Musings, Other Bandit Who Abducted Elan, Owlbear, Pig (+2), Palace Guard, Phylactery-Finding Hobgoblin, Process Server, Process Server's Familiar, Psychiatrist, Ranch Dressing Elemental, Real Blacksmith, Red Allosaurus' Guards, Red Guy, Red-headed Gladiator, Salamanders at Fire Sigil, Sewer Hobgoblins, Short-haired Female Orc, Sir Francois (+5), Stupid Ogre (+6), Summoned Pit Fiends, Surviving Bearded Devils of 826, Surviving Shark Tank Hobgoblin, Tarquin's Conquered, Teen-Aged Goblin With Sneakers, Therkla's Escorts, Thog's Entrourage, Veiled Soldier, Vermillius, Violet, Warden of CPPD (+1), Warthog (+1), Weepy Hobgoblin Cleric, Xorns at Earth Sigil, Zeus (+1)

Thoughts?

[Flame of Anor]

Looks good, but the term is supporting characters, not supportive.

[martianmister]

Looks good, but the term is supporting characters, not supportive.

Oops!

[davidbofinger]

Seeing that pretty much all boundaries are pretty arbitrary

To the extent we don't want them to be arbitrary I guess we're looking for big gaps between adjacent characters. Based on total appearances those are:

• Durkon-Redcloak (huge, obvious and explicable - this clearly isn't arbitrary)
• Nale-Tarquin (presumably will close since Nale is dead and Tarquin isn't)
• Roaches-Eugene (the second-largest gap, probably will open since Eugene is inactive and the roaches will keep ticking over)
• Daigo-Tsukiko (presumably will open since Daigo is alive and Tsukiko is dead)

Of these, the first and third seem the most promising boundaries.

• Everyone above the Durkon-Redcloak boundary is a principal story protagonist.
• Everyone between the Durkon-Redcloak boundary and the Roaches-Eugene boundary is either a major opposition leader (Tarquin, Xykon, Nale, Miko), a major opposition henchperson who has a story of their own (thog, Sabine, Monster in the Darkness, Redcloak), a companion to a protagonist (Mr. Scruffy, Blackwing), a companion to an opposition leader (the demon roaches) or they're Hinjo. Except for Hinjo they can all be classified as "companions and people with character development".
• Below the Roaches-Eugene boundary it's people who don't really have character development. Even a major figure like Malack fits this description. The main exceptions are Daigo and Kazumi, who have a story that is so sparsely described they sink below the cutoff.

So you could, if you liked, split into Protagonists, Developing Characters and Companions, and Non-Developing Characters. Or not. Hinjo is a problem.