Question: Nippon Ahoy?

[BarnabasBailey]

So, I thought that it might be fun to stage an adventure taking place in the magical land of Not Japan (as opposed to the standard model of adventures in the magical land of Not Eastern Europe). Nothing special here; I can't have been the only person who wanted to do that.

My question is this: obviously, walking around with longswords and bec de corbins might clash with the overall tone, and having to take a feat to pick up weapons common to Not Japan is both cumbersome and annoying. With that in mind, I thought the easiest thing to do would simply flip around the charts, making all Martial weapons Exotic and vice versa. Is that a sensible thing to do, or am I missing something? Like, would it mess with the game balance at all in some way I'm not immediately seeing? It's probably going to turn out to be a silly question with a silly answer, but it's better to ask and be wrong, right?

Also, is there anything else I should keep in mind when I'm trying to make this? Not in a world-building sense, mind; if I wanted that, I'd be going to World-Building. I'm just looking for any kind of mechanical snags I might not be seeing because the concept of samurai is too awesome.

[Waker]

I would say just swap the names of stuff around. Make longswords into katana, greatsword into daikatana and so on. I realize there are already exotic weapons of the same name, but most of them are terrible. Certain weapons wouldn't even need that much work, as a quarterstaff is the same wherever you live.

As for the classes, try not to get too wrapped up in the names. You don't need to take the Samurai class to be a Samurai, the role could be filled with a Fighter, Paladin, Knight, Crusader... Same with anything else. Otherwise just have fun.

Also watch out for Godzilla.

[BarnabasBailey]

I suppose that makes sense. The change to the world and its areas are aesthetic at best, so I suppose just letting people play around with the classes and stuff would be even simpler. My only concern is; what about the people who want to get all exotic? I mean, what about the folks who, like their Eastern counterparts in Not Europe, insist on carrying around a sword not meant for their fatherland? The people who want to dress like European knights just because it makes them look unusual and awesome? Do we then turn katanas into longswords and nodachi into greatswords?

[eftexar]

Exotic weapons aren't usually much better than martial. The spiked chain is about the only thing worth a feat unless you are willing to sacrifice power for flavor.

You might want to consider reorganizing and renaming some. If you aren't going to add a katana, for example, you should rename the bastard sword to katana. Just simple reflavoring and name changes. A spear for another example wouldn't be a spear (it would be a yari).

The biggest snag I think you would run into is that heavy armor didn't exist in japan. It would all have to be light and medium armor. Not that armor is much help at higher levels anyway.

If I may throw out another suggestion, as far as reflavoring classes, you might want to remove the Paladin's spells, and code, then combine what's left of that chassis with the Samurai and then tag on the Marshal's auras. And viola, instant samurai that actually functions.

[Waker]

I suppose that makes sense. The change to the world and its areas are aesthetic at best, so I suppose just letting people play around with the classes and stuff would be even simpler. My only concern is; what about the people who want to get all exotic? I mean, what about the folks who, like their Eastern counterparts in Not Europe, insist on carrying around a sword not meant for their fatherland? The people who want to dress like European knights just because it makes them look unusual and awesome? Do we then turn katanas into longswords and nodachi into greatswords?

You mean what should you do with people who dress as Sorta-European Knights in Not-Quite-Japan? They use the same armor and weapons, but they have a palette swap and are called something else. Make no distinction from katana and longsword, a rose by any other name and all that nonsense. Far easier than trying to come up with an alternate listing of equipment to accommodate a special snowflake.

And no, I don't want to get involved with anyone talking about the differences between any of these weapons in real-life.

[BarnabasBailey]

Oh, all right. So what you're saying is, pretty much everything about this kind of adventure boils down to a change in aesthetics, with an abandoning of the exotic weapon and its dependence on feats in favor of simply allowing the characters the chance to rename existing weapon templates. That certainly makes things easy to digest.

Even the point about heavy armor can be addressed. I recall reading the 4e DnD book and its description of the swashbuckling genre. People in heavy armor can still fight on ships and in grand Musketeer fights simply by changing plate mail to a simple breastplate. It's still mechanically identical to plate, but IC it allows them to blend in better with the established scenery.

Anyhoo, thanks for that. I guess the answer was even simpler than I thought.

[genericwit]

The biggest snag I think you would run into is that heavy armor didn't exist in japan. It would all have to be light and medium armor. Not that armor is much help at higher levels anyway.

Heavy Armor didn't exist? This seems pretty heavy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8C-yoroi and roughly analogous to half-plate (more components than breastplate, but not as comprehensive as full-plate).

It seems you could easily refluff full plate as a beefed up version of the yoroi.

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Heavy Armor didn't exist? This seems pretty heavy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8C-yoroi and roughly analogous to half-plate (more components than breastplate, but not as comprehensive as full-plate).

It seems you could easily refluff full plate as a beefed up version of the yoroi.

For what it's worth, Oriental Adventures and Ultimate Combat (depending on whether you're using standard 3.X or Pathfinder, respectively) essentially treat great armor/o-yoroi as equivalent to half-plate in terms of AC bonus. However, o-yoroi has a few advantages over standard half-plate, like a +2 max Dex bonus, lighter weight (45 lbs), slightly lower ASF (35%), and a better armor check penalty (-5 for OA great armor, -6 for UC o-yoroi).

If you're still hard up for stats, the Pathfinder SRD has entire sections on armor and weapons that can be used in a Japanese or general East Asian setting. I wouldn't bother with the wakizashi, katana, bo staff, and tetsubo as they're described, though; just refluff the short sword, bastard sword (or longsword, depending on your preferences), quarterstaff, and greatclub and be done with it.

[eftexar]

Compare it to full plate with mail, genericwit. O-Yoroi armor is much lighter and better for mobility. It wouldn't nearly stand up to an attack as well. I would place it in medium armor because of that (maybe at the lightest end of heavy armor, it's a close call).

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Anyhoo, thanks for that. I guess the answer was even simpler than I thought.

It's even more simple than that, really. The rpg Mutants and Masterminds can do anything. Literally. Anything and everything. I only just talked with my players about using M&M to do a Xiaolin-ish Monk campaign, and it works perfectly.

For those lost souls who don't know it, M&M is D20 done right. No classes, just skills, feats, and Powers, which covers everything from Batman to Superman, Samwise Gamgee to Sauron, Paul Atreides to The EMPRAH (WH40k).

Seriously, pick this up and run it right out of the box. No need to modify anything at all. You just need a GM with the resolve to say "No" to their players once in a while.

[Jarrick]

I actually did extensive work on this exact concept a couple years ago. I eventually gave it up due to lack of interest on the part of my players.

I have an entire sheet complete with worded descriptions of more nipponese weapons than the player's handbook has western weapons. Turns out wikipedia has a LOT of asian weapons on file.

Its not all complete, mind you, some of the weapons required feats to use that I didnt stat out (similar in function to Suglin Mastery in frostburn for the heaviest weapons and such). I could send you the PDF if you're interested. I would post the weapons here, but its a very long document and I hate making tables on the playground.

Also, I think I have a few of the races and one of the classes in my extended homebrew sig, to give you an idea what I was going for with it.

Edit: did the same with armor too, but I lost the descriptions in a computer death and only have a table now.

[JusticeZero]

Compare it to full plate with mail, genericwit. O-Yoroi armor is much lighter and better for mobility. It wouldn't nearly stand up to an attack as well. I would place it in medium armor because of that (maybe at the lightest end of heavy armor, it's a close call).

Well, sure, but a katana couldn't cut through heavy armor as well as a european sword, either.
Seriously, the weapons as given were intended to be carried over with renaming. Katana=bastard sword, Bo=quarterstaff, Kama=sickle, etc. It's mostly post facto japanophilia that made us have all the fancy exotic weapons.

[genericwit]

Well, sure, but a katana couldn't cut through heavy armor as well as a european sword, either.
Seriously, the weapons as given were intended to be carried over with renaming. Katana=bastard sword, Bo=quarterstaff, Kama=sickle, etc. It's mostly post facto japanophilia that made us have all the fancy exotic weapons.

Actually, this is not true. If you ever watched that episode of Deadliest Warrior, they found that when cutting a breastplate, and piercing one, a katana outperformed a longsword in both arenas, though neither could really adequately pierce the breastplate. Quite simply, plate armor couldn't really be adequately penetrated by most weapons [except for heavier two handed weapons, like the bec de corbin or a halberd, or a lance or set pike]; more effective strategies revolved around dealing blunt force trauma with a large mace, hammer, or maul or knocking the knight onto the ground and exploiting gaps in their armor.

[genericwit]

For what it's worth, Oriental Adventures and Ultimate Combat (depending on whether you're using standard 3.X or Pathfinder, respectively) essentially treat great armor/o-yoroi as equivalent to half-plate in terms of AC bonus. However, o-yoroi has a few advantages over standard half-plate, like a +2 max Dex bonus, lighter weight (45 lbs), slightly lower ASF (35%), and a better armor check penalty (-5 for OA great armor, -6 for UC o-yoroi).

Yeah, that's kind of what I was talking about, that makes more sense than considering it full plate.

[Jarrick]

Did someone say Blunt Force Trauma? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otsuchi