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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Griffon

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    Default The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    A quick review of my zombie movie trope roles:

    Hero - Rick
    Sidekick - Glenn, Hershel (redeemed Evil Leader of Safe Haven Community)
    Badass Chick - Michonne, Maggie
    Uncooperative Jerk - Shane, Merle
    Catatonic Girl - Carol (see below)
    Cool Guy who dies half-way through the movie - T-Dog, Otis, Daryl (reformed Jerk, pray for his life)
    Stupid One who ruins the plan - Carl, Dale (and then some), Andrea (failed Badass Chick)
    Can Never Remember Name because never does anything interesting - Hershel's other daughter, Hershel's deceased son, woman who stayed at the CDC when it blew up
    Secretly Bit - Jim (1st season), Laurie (technically not secretly bit but still had big secrets)
    Evil Leader of the Safe Haven Community - Governor

    I had previously mentioned Carol was recovering from being Catatonic Girl, but I think she might be fully recovered after all. I had forgotten she told Andrea to kill the Governor. (Andrea, being a Stupid, of course doesn't.) That's a Badass Chick move. While Carol isn't that yet, I think she's making her move to that new status. With Jerk Merle mentioning her change in nature, it forced me to reconsider her status myself.

    On the most recent episode, Rick redeemed himself. He was on verge of becoming Evil Leader, even before agreeing to give up Michonne to the Governor, but he found the error of his ways. He recognized he was becoming the Governor and put a stop to it. Good for him. He's still Hero.

    Merle suffers a common story trope - Bad Guy does a redeemable noble act and gets killed in the process. In zombie trope, for a moment he becomes Cool Guy so naturally he gets killed. Poor Daryl. If Daryl survives the finale I'll upgrade him from Cool Guy to Hero. Heroes can die in zombie movies but only at the end. Since Walking Dead is a tv series, if Andrew Lincoln or Norman Reedus leave before it's over their character might die before then, so I have to give a little leeway. While Cool Guy death is empathetic, Hero death is a bit more. Daryl is earning that and not just because of hunk status.

    Target - Glenn and/or Maggie will die in the season finale. Engagement is not an auto-kill to a character, but their life is definitely in more peril.
    Last edited by navar100; 2013-03-25 at 12:01 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    Goodbye Andrea.

    I now upgrade Daryl to Hero. Carl is trying to change his Stupid status. The trouble is he's becoming Uncooperative Jerk, so far. Carol continues her Badass Girl training, taking the trouble of hacking Walkers in the head on guard duty as they open and close the fence.

    I was guessing the Group would attack Woodbury while the Governor and his gang attacked an empty prison. Not quite that, of course. Touching the Group brought the Woodbury citizens to the prison. Next season I hope they aren't killed off camera before the season starts. That would be a cop out, but The Walking Dead has been an intelligent show so that's just tv pessimism talking.

    If there wasn't going to be a 4th season this would have made for a good series finale, but hooray there will be a 4th season. If they keep the Governor around, he now has no townsfolk to "protect". His Lieutenants know how Evil is. Before they could excuse his ruthlessness with the Situation. Now they don't have that excuse anymore. The Governor is now a Gang leader. Expect more trouble if he's still in the show next season.

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    FreakyCheeseMan's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    I would like to state for the record that this was my least favourite season, on the basis of Rick's Idiot Ball and the Governor's Plot Armour.

    Rick, in particular... just no. Over the entire season, he's acting stupidly paranoid and untrusting - "Completely friendly, innocent people who've given me no reason to distrust them? Kick them out! Woman who's just seen two of my people kidnapped by a person who was trying to kill her? The enemy of my enemy is someone I must point a gun at!"

    And then, after all that, his attitude towards the Governor... "The mustache-twirling, obviously psychopathic sadist who survives based entirely on lying and betrayal pinky swears that he'll let us all go if we turn over one of our most competent people for him to kill? Seems legit!"

    And the Governor... every bit of tension the season had relied on people who had the motive and opportunity to kill him consistently and inexplicably not killing him. Andrea, Michonne, Rick... every one of them had the easy chance to do so, and just... didn't. I think the creators were going for that frustrating horror feeling, the "Don't go into the basement" sense, but to me... no. It just came off as the Governor prancing about in a black hat and "Kill Me" T-shirt while the heroes stared at their guns in confusion, drooling and occasionally wetting themselves.

    So, yeah. I don't know if this was a failure in the comic, the TV show or a failure of translation between the two, but the end result was me checking in once a week to see if the writers had revoked the Governor's plot armour yet.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    Rick's best friend tried to kill him. His wife dies giving birth to a child he has to doubt is even his, and his son shot her. I'd say Rick going off the deep end is quite logical. Enter the Governor. Eventually it clicks. Rick realizes he is becoming the Governor. He hasn't completely lost himself and puts a stop to himself from becoming another Governor before it's too late. The scene of him looking where he saw his wife before but now doesn't is the symbolism he saved himself. He remains Hero and doesn't become Evil Leader of Safe Haven Community.

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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    I do like that the show is moving in so many different directions than the comic; keeps it interesting for long-time readers. That said, the Governor in the tv show seemed very very tame in comparison (probably for the best...it'd be hard to watch if he was as awful as in the books).

    That said, I do have to gripe about Andrea. In the comics, she's a very strong character, saner than most by a long stretch, rarely makes stupid mistakes and she's a better shot than anyone else. The tv show takes that and makes her defining character trait seem to be "makes bad relationship choices", her one show of marksmanship being a mistake that nearly kills Daryl (in season 2) and then they stuff her in a fridge with a zombie. I know Kirkman is still involved with writing a couple episodes per season, but it's sad to see such an awesome character (who is still alive after 100 issues) cut down so far.

    Oh well, I'll still watch season 4 (and still keep up with the comics, of course)

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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by navar100 View Post
    Rick's best friend tried to kill him. His wife dies giving birth to a child he has to doubt is even his, and his son shot her. I'd say Rick going off the deep end is quite logical. Enter the Governor. Eventually it clicks. Rick realizes he is becoming the Governor. He hasn't completely lost himself and puts a stop to himself from becoming another Governor before it's too late. The scene of him looking where he saw his wife before but now doesn't is the symbolism he saved himself. He remains Hero and doesn't become Evil Leader of Safe Haven Community.
    It's not so much that I object to him leaning good/evil, it's more that I object to him being stupid, and inconsistently so. For most of the season, he's paranoid and refuses to trust anyone, nomatter how much it seems he should; he ends up pulling a gun on almost everyone he meets, driving them away, etc, because he can't trust them.

    And then he meets the Governor, and completely fails to hold the same attitude. If the same Rick that dealt with the prisoners were dealing with the Governor, he'd have killed him when he had the chance, cause it was clear it needed doing; if the same rick that kicked whats-his-face and his family out had been negotiating with the governor, he never would have trusted him enough to even consider the Michonne deal.

    So, to me, it doesn't work as a story of falling and being redeemed, it's more a case of "Rick is acting stupid because the plot needs him to, and he's going to keep doing so until the writers decide to let him act rationally."

    From TVTropes, it just strikes me as an Idiot Plot.

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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    I really feel like the writers deliberately trolled the fans. Especially with the season finale. It's hard to imagine they failed that hard without it being deliberate.

    One thing is Andrea over the course of the season. She was hated amongst the fans. I always thought people overemphasize how bad she is. Well, until that speech she gave to the people of Woodbury. It was horrible, weak, unconvincing. And yet everyone acts like it was the best thing ever.
    Then there is an ENTIRE EPISODE dedicated to her attempt to reach the prison, only to get captured by the governor. Again, the writers know the fans hate her. And they make... an Andrea episode. What the hell guys?

    Then the finale... So much buildup to the final confrontation. Then the governor's little army moves in, shoots up some stray walkers and unresisting conctrete, and then... They're scared off by some flashbangs and flee. Instead of any actual fighting we get the governor gunning down the lot and driving off into nowhere, leaving the whole Rick-Governor conflict unresolved. WHAT. THE. HELL.

    I don't think Glenn and Maggie hit a single one of them as they ran out, did they? Not one hit. And yet one of the Woodburians calls the thing 'a massacre'.

    I truly feel trolled. No one in their right might could have thought that such an anticlimax after so much buildup is a good idea that will be well received.
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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    I really feel like the writers deliberately trolled the fans. Especially with the season finale. It's hard to imagine they failed that hard without it being deliberate.
    ...this too. I mean, I didn't really feel the build-up of this series, because the Governor struck me as kind of a pathetic villain... the only reason he functions is because everyone around him acts outside of their character in order to allow him to do so.

    But still, that last episode... the fight was lame, and should have had a way higher body count; if either side had been acting competently, one of them would have been wiped out or at least decimated. Carl shot someone... okay. Andrea died... okay. The governor killed a whole bunch of people because, once again, everyone forgot how guns work.

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    Cristo Meyers's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by FreakyCheeseMan View Post
    I would like to state for the record that this was my least favourite season, on the basis of Rick's Idiot Ball and the Governor's Plot Armour.
    This is actually the only season I've actually watched. Before this I'd played the Telltale game and during I've caught up on the first two compendiums. I was okay at the start, but things just started going down once Axel got cacked and it never recovered. The meeting between Rick and the Governor was the absolute low point. "Watch in awe as two guys drink whiskey and threaten one another!" "Marvel as Andrea continues to show her head is so far up her backside that it's amazing she can actually walk!" "See Daryl and that Woodbury guy smoke and have a penis-measuring contest!"

    Rick, in particular... just no. Over the entire season, he's acting stupidly paranoid and untrusting - "Completely friendly, innocent people who've given me no reason to distrust them? Kick them out! Woman who's just seen two of my people kidnapped by a person who was trying to kill her? The enemy of my enemy is someone I must point a gun at!"
    I think the writers confused "erratic" with "dumb."

    And then, after all that, his attitude towards the Governor... "The mustache-twirling, obviously psychopathic sadist who survives based entirely on lying and betrayal pinky swears that he'll let us all go if we turn over one of our most competent people for him to kill? Seems legit!"
    This was only made worse by the fact that no one made the obvious objection of "There's no way the Governor intends to keep this deal."

    Not Herschel, not Daryl, not even Merle...nope, they all think he's on the up and up.

    And the Governor... every bit of tension the season had relied on people who had the motive and opportunity to kill him consistently and inexplicably not killing him. Andrea, Michonne, Rick... every one of them had the easy chance to do so, and just... didn't. I think the creators were going for that frustrating horror feeling, the "Don't go into the basement" sense, but to me... no. It just came off as the Governor prancing about in a black hat and "Kill Me" T-shirt while the heroes stared at their guns in confusion, drooling and occasionally wetting themselves.

    So, yeah. I don't know if this was a failure in the comic, the TV show or a failure of translation between the two, but the end result was me checking in once a week to see if the writers had revoked the Governor's plot armour yet.
    My wife was having the same problem, and by the end of it all so was I. And Andrea had two chances to kill him, one including a small horde of walkers...that still didn't take.

    By the time that guy's son ended up being a body shield when Merle had the Governor in his sights I had pretty much just given up.

    He had some pretty thick plot armor in the book, getting a nasty once over from Michonne, but the whole arc is also more compressed so it's not quite as noticable as the show's weekly contrivances.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreakyCheeseMan View Post
    The governor killed a whole bunch of people because, once again, everyone forgot how guns work.
    There's a reason I spent much of this season screaming at the TV "someone please kill the psycho!"

    When he opened up on the Woodbury militia I'm sitting there, watching Martinez holding an MP5 submachinegun and not doing anything. Dude's going on a killing spree! For all you know, you're the next target to get filled full of Steyr rounds! For Christ's sake man, kill him!

    Nope, dude gets in the Governor's truck and they all drive off together.

    At least Andrea's gone, it's nice to see someone actually pay for their stupidity for once.
    Last edited by Cristo Meyers; 2013-04-03 at 03:07 PM.
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