The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Noble

    Wherever society springs forth, it always seems as though someone is ready to claim control. From kings to chiefdoms to grand hierophants, leaders of civilization take nearly every form. Spreading off from many of these leaders, often through birth, adoption, and marriage are webs of aristocracy and nobility that engulf entire nations in their grasp. While many would view these nobles as posh and inbred lapdogs for their distant sovereign, a rare few manage to separate themselves from the rest of the aristocracy. Filled with potential and guided by wanderlust, these rare nobles act upon their own behalf, increasing their own standing as they see and experience most of the world. The most active among these nobles, whether seeking adventure or kept from the quiet life of home through mistake or disaster, may even join or fund adventurers out in the world. While not as strong or smart as others, the presence of a noble is felt everywhere that they go.

    Alignment: Any
    Starting Age: As rogue
    Hit Die: d8

    Class Skills:
    Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Listen, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) × 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

    Noble
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
    Royal Purse

    1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Servant, Noble Heritage|
    --

    2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Influence (Fame), Social Currency|
    --

    3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Noble Heritage|
    --

    4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Leader of Men|
    2,000 gp

    5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Diplomatic Ties +4|
    3,000 gp

    6th|+4|+5|+2|+5|Influence (Leader)|
    4,000 gp

    7th|+5|+5|+2|+5|Noble Heritage|
    5,000 gp

    8th|+6/+1|+6|+2|+6|Leader of Men|
    6,000 gp

    9th|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6|Diplomatic Ties +6|
    7,500 gp

    10th|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Influence (Untouchable)|
    9,000 gp

    11th|+8/+3|+7|+3|+7|Noble Heritage|
    10,500 gp

    12th|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Leader of Men|
    12,000 gp

    13th|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Diplomatic Ties +8|
    14,000 gp

    14th|+10/+5|+9|+4|+9|Influence (Representative)|
    16,000 gp

    15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+5|+9|Noble Heritage|
    18,000 gp

    16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Leader of Men|
    20,000 gp

    17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Diplomatic Ties +10|
    22,500 gp

    18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Influence (Invaluable)|
    25,000 gp

    19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Noble Heritage|
    27,500 gp

    20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|True Leader, Leader of Men|
    30,000 gp

    [/table]

    Class Features


    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: All nobles are proficient with light weaponry and one martial weapon of his or her choice, chosen at 1st level. The noble is proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

    Noble Heritage: While nobility may appear widespread at a cursory glance, it can occur in a staggeringly large array of forms. At 1st level, a noble may select two skills representing his or her house or upbringing. Those two skills are treated as class skills for the noble. Alternately, one or both of these skills may be switched for proficiency with medium armor or with martial weapons or both of these skills may be traded for the skill focus feat in one noble class skill.

    Furthermore, each noble inherits some tricks, secrets, and means of ruling others through their noble line, granting them certain benefits. At 1st level, each noble selects a single noble heritage, gaining the appropriate abilities at 1st level, 3rd level, and every 4 levels afterwards. Once this decision has been made, it cannot be later altered.

    Third, while a noble doesn’t necessarily have the authority to make and enforce laws within his or her home nation, the prestige of noble blood does carry some weight, granting a +2 bonus to all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skill checks made within his or her nation of origin. Within a community at least the size of a large town (over 2,000 residents) within that nation, the noble and a number of companions up to his or her Charisma score (including party members and servitors) are further entitled to an average lifestyle without paying anything out of their own pockets, barring extraordinary conditions (such as siege, aftermath of a natural disaster, mass mind control, etc.).

    Finally, while most nobles who would be travelling are kept from the full wealth expected of nobility (whether they have run from home, they are kept from their inheritance by woes of legality or procession, or they simply come from a line of landless nobility), they do possess more than the average traveler, starting play with 300 additional gold pieces.

    Noble Heritages:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Martial Heritage:
    A good many kingdoms are ruled through raw martial might rather than magic or trickery. While some lineages control the armies that oppose their enemies or that keep their own people in line, others have gained power through their good fortune or skill on the battlefield. Others still, though gaining power through martial means, need not necessarily obtain power through war. In certain societies, for example, only the rich and powerful can afford to organize larger hunts and provide for the community.

    Martial Strike: While most nobles are trained in combat to varying degrees, one from a more martial heritage can strike hard and true when it counts. Whenever the noble makes an attack, he or she may declare it to be a martial strike. When making a martial strike, the noble gains a +1 insight bonus to the attack and damage roll. These bonuses increase by +1 at 5th level and every 4 levels afterwards. This ability may be used a number of times each day up to 3 + 1/2 of the noble’s class level. This ability counts as possessing a fighter level equal to half of the noble’s class level for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.

    Martial Training: Beyond simple capability in combat, nobles acquire a good deal of experience to help them out in the fray. At 3rd level, the noble acquires a bonus fighter feat for which it meets all prerequisites. The noble gains an additional fighter feat both at 11th level and at 19th level.

    Martial Aura: Starting at 7th level, a noble possesses the power to effectively lead others out on the field of combat. The noble gains an aura out to 60 feet, affecting all allies capable of hearing and understanding him or her. Where relevant, X equals one third of the noble’s class level, rounded down. The noble benefits from the ability lent out as well. The noble may switch which ability is lent out as a swift action:
    • Allies gain an X x 5% miss chance on all attacks made against them.
    • Allies gain a +X bonus to critical confirmation rolls, damage rolls, and to trip, disarm, sunder, bull rush, overrun, and grapple checks.
    • Allies gain Damage Reduction X/-, stacking with similar forms of damage reduction
    • Allies increase their speed for all modes of movement by X x 5 ft.


    Martial Mastery: Starting at 15th level, a noble attains the height of their martial skill. Whenever he or she uses martial strike, only a single use is needed to affect all attacks made as part of a full-attack action. Furthermore, whenever a noble uses martial strike as part of a full attack, he or she may make an additional attack at his or her full base attack bonus.

    Arcane-Blooded Heritage:
    With the strength that arcane magic holds, it is unsurprising that lineages with arcane power could take power. Some lineages run kingdoms and nations as part of a magocracy, possessing enough power to lay claim to the throne and far more skill at political matters than most others who would rule such a community. Others with arcane power come from monarchies, using their spells to prove that they have descended from the ruling lineage or even claiming to have descended from dragons.

    Arcane Power: The noble possesses some rough ability to cast arcane spells, though neither like a wizard nor a sorcerer. At 1st level, a noble selects whether it will possess access to the necromancy school or enchantment school of magic. The noble may only learn spells from the chosen school of magic plus the abjuration, conjuration, and divination schools. The noble starts play with 3 1st-level spells and learns an additional spell at each even level, none of which may possess a higher spell level than 1 + 1/4 of the noble’s class level. No spell may be chosen more than once. Each spell must be selected from the sorcerer/wizard spell list and is usable 1/day as an arcane spell with a caster level equal to the noble’s class level. The saving throw to resist, if any, equals 10 + spell level + Cha modifier. Metamagic feats may not be used with this spell. This class feature counts as possessing a sorcerer level equal to half of the noble’s class level for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for draconic feats and other heritage feats.

    Arcane Training: Beyond simple skill with arcane power, a noble gains skill at using this spellcasting potential. At 3rd level, the noble gains a bonus feat that must be an item creation feat, reserve feat, draconic feat, or other heritage feats The noble must meet all prerequisites. The noble gains an additional such bonus feat both at 11th level and at 19th level.

    Arcane Journeyman: Starting at 7th level, a noble can call forth a magical minion to serve them, a sign of their dominance over arcane energies. The noble gains a familiar that benefits as if the noble possessed a wizard level equal to its class level. Furthermore, the noble gains the improved familiar feat, allowing for stronger creatures to be called forth as this minion.

    Quickened Casting: Starting at 15th level, a noble can call upon magic in hardly any time at all. Once per day, after casting an arcane spell gained through the noble’s arcane power class feature, it may cast a second such spell at least two spell levels lower as a swift action.

    Divine-Blooded Heritage:
    While many monarchs claim a divine right to rule, a few nobles truly seem to have divine energy running through their blood. Even outside of a raw theocracy where such power may entitle one to rule, others have used their latent divine powers to claim status as a living god or as the descendant to a grand deific force. Even in less organized communities, those with stronger ties to the world around them may be seen as favored by ancestors or animist spirits, giving them some claim to rule.

    Divine Power: The noble possesses some rough ability to cast divine spells, though unlike most other divine casters. At 1st level, a noble selects whether it will possess access to druid spell list or the cleric spell list. The noble may only learn spells from the chosen spell list. The noble starts play with 3 1st-level spells and learns an additional spell at each even level, none of which may possess a higher spell level than 1 + 1/4 of the noble’s class level. No spell may be chosen more than once. Each spell is usable 1/day as a divine spell with a caster level equal to the noble’s class level. The saving throw to resist, if any, equals 10 + spell level + Cha modifier. Metamagic feats may not be used with these spells. This class feature counts as turning or rebuking undead for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of divine feats and devotion feats and is treated as the wildshape class feature for the purpose of meeting the prerquisites of wild feats if the noble can cast spells of at least 3rd level. Any spell may be expended as if it were a use of turn or rebuke undead for the purpose of these feats and any spell of at least 3rd level may be expended for the purpose of a wild feat.

    Divine Training: Beyond simple skill with divine power, a noble gains skill at using this spellcasting potential. At 3rd level, the noble gains a bonus feat that must be an item creation feat, devotion feat, divine feat, or wild feats. The noble must meet all prerequisites. The noble gains another bonus feat both at 11th level and at 19th level.

    Divine Journeyman: Starting at 7th level, a noble gains some greater sign of divine power depending on what source of magic it wields, signifying the noble’s divine favor. If casting spells from the cleric spell list, the noble gains access to a single divine domain of his or her god (or that suits the ideal he or she worships). The noble gains the granted power and may cast one of the spells from that domain each day by sacrificing a spell of equal or higher level gained through his or her divine power class feature. If casting spells from the druid spell list, the noble instead gains an animal companion, using his or her noble level in place of his or her druid level to determine the benefits.

    Quickened Casting: Starting at 15th level, a noble can call upon magic in hardly any time at all. Once per day, after casting a divine spell gained through the noble’s arcane power class feature, it may cast a second such spell at least two spell levels lower as a swift action.

    Canny Heritage:
    While some rulers rely on martial might or magic, some achieve and maintain power through sheer cunning and insight. Knowing the system better than anyone else can hope, these rulers know how to best address the issues at hand to build popular support or how to keep enemies at each other’s throats while redirecting blame for anything that goes on. Often emerging from families so entrenched in politics that they need little else than wit to keep power, few could hope to out-think these nobles.

    Uncanny Skill: while most nobles may seem quite skilled, one from a canny heritage rarely runs across a task that he or she lacks even some proficiency in. Whenever a noble would make a skill check, he or she may choose to utilize uncanny skill. When utilizing uncanny skill, the noble may treat his or her ranks in the skill as equaling his or her class level if otherwise lower. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + 1/2 of the Noble’s class level. The noble is treated as possessing ranks in all skills at least equal to half of his or her class feature for the purpose of meeting prerequisites. Furthermore, whenever a noble uses a skill trick (complete scoundrel), he or she may spend a use of this ability rather than expending that trick for the encounter (or for the day, depending on the skill trick).

    Dilettante Training: Rather than focusing talents on any particular area, a noble from a canny lineage learns a bit of just about everything. At 3rd level, the noble gains any two general feats as bonus feats so long as they possess no prerequisites. Furthermore, the noble gains a bonus skill trick (complete scoundrel) it meets all prerequisites for without spending skill points. This skill trick doesn’t count towards the limit of how many the noble may possess. The noble gains another two feats and a skill trick at 11th level and again at 19th level.

    Quick Skills: Starting at 7th level, a noble can perform most tasks with great speed. The noble no longer takes penalties to skill checks for speeding them or for moving more quickly when using certain skills like climb or tumble (though the maximum speed movable while using such skills doesn’t change).

    Skill Mastery: Starting at 15th level, a noble can nearly ensure success at most tasks apart from combat. Whenever the noble rolls a result of under 10 when making a skill check, he or she may treat the result of the roll as a 10.


    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Yep, there’s a whole lot going on right here. Just through this ability, a noble gains a couple of skills AND/OR proficiencies OR a feat AND some social bonuses AND a decent lifestyle AND a special ability AND some wealth that is relevant at 1st level. None of it looks to be too much here, however. As for the giant elephant in the room, it is glaringly obvious that the two magic options are superior to the two non-magic options. Barring a rewrite of the magic system, there isn’t much I could have done to prevent that. I liked the idea that a team of four nobles could have the basic roles of combatant/divine caster/arcanist/skill monkey filled I decided to go with it.

    And, to address the next question, I have no intention of allowing this class to cross-specialize (start as divine blooded and move into canny, for example). While this is for 3.5 and I’ve heard mixed opinions on Pathfinder notions like sorcerer bloodlines, this seems like a pretty basic distinction to make and I just don’t believe in allowing classes to “theurge” within themselves. If you want pieces of two different roles, multiclass or take a PrC. It isn’t as though I’ve packed the specializations with tons of unique and highly desirable powers anyways so… yeah.


    Servant: At 1st level, a noble gains the service of a plain if loyal servant and assistant to help you with most mundane matters. The servant is an expert of your race with levels equal to the noble’s class level, possessing feats and skills of the player’s choice. The servitor is an NPC under the control of the DM, however, and it does all that it can to avoid entering dungeons, fighting in battles, or putting itself in other dangerous situations. The servant requires no formal form of pay, remaining out of loyalty to the noble and receiving a +4 bonus to all saves against mind-affecting effects, though the noble is responsible for providing for the servant (including equipment) and will leave if repeatedly mistreated or tricked into danger. A replacement for a lost or slain servant may be obtained after a month has passed.

    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    And you get a servant. This is just a way to have someone else to run servants and small stuff outside of battles and combat so it shouldn’t create too many more problems than unseen servant would.


    Social Currency (Ex): At 2nd level, a noble can use his or her influence to receive special treatment, favors, and other services. The noble effectively has a pool of virtual gold pieces equal to 150 plus 10 gp per class level to spend on services and non-material. This pool replenishes at the start of each week. The types of services and nonmaterial goods available to a noble may include:

    • Pay for lodgings, stabling, taxes, and tolls.
    • Improve his lifestyle quality.
    • Hire entertainers, messengers, mounts, servants, transport, workers, and so on.
    • Obtain invitations to exclusive events, or entry into privileged locations.
    • Spread rumors or start a whispering campaign.
    • Purchase spellcasting services.
    • Employ an expert hireling to make a skill check with a check bonus of +10 plus his class level (50 gp).


    A noble cannot permanently gain goods or wealth from this ability; boons attainable from this ability are generally only available in settlements of 5,000 people or more. The exact benefits available in a location are subject to DM discretion.


    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is the only class feature that I did not personally create, taken from the Noble Scion PrC, the class that inspired me to write this up. When I first read it, I thought that it was a brilliant way to give a character more or less unlimited wealth without totally breaking the system. With that said, how much some of that stuff (invitations and rumors in particular) costs is kind of in the air so that type of cost is more for DM discretion than anything else.



    Influence (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the name and face of a noble start to gain some degree of fame and influence among others. The noble may add half of his or her class level as a bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate checks when dealing with leaders. The same value is decreased from the DCs of Knowledge (local), Knowledge (royalty and nobility), and Gather Information checks made to gather publically available information about the noble.

    Starting at 6th level, the influence of a noble is sufficient to smooth over most of life’s difficulties. The noble and a number of chosen allies up to his or her Charisma score are exempt from paying taxes, tithes, tariffs, or similar costs. Furthermore, with 1d4 hours of working in a community at least indifferent towards the noble and his or her causes, the noble can muster a work force of up to 1% of the town’s population (minimum of 1, maximum of 10/class level). All recruited citizens are level 1 experts of the most populous race in town and they are willing to work for up to 24 hours so long as the work does not involve battle or put them in any serious danger. This ability may not be used more than once per week in a single community.

    Starting at 10th level, a noble’s influence makes them all but untouchable in many ways. The noble and a number of chosen allies up to his or her Charisma score are treated to a limited degree of diplomatic immunity, excusing them from most legal limitations (such as bans on magic, armor, or weaponry within settlements) and excusing them from most crimes short of treason or murder. Furthermore, any entity acting openly against the noble or his or her chosen allies earns the enmity of the noble’s allies such as his or her nation of origin and all additional nations or organizations he or she is linked to through the noble’s diplomatic ties class feature, making all such allies unfriendly (if not already hostile) towards the offending group.

    Starting at 14th level, a noble becomes a political voice, speaking on behalf of entire nations and communities. As such, with 1d4 hours of work within a community, a noble can come into contact with any leader of that community, up to and including those who are hostile towards the noble and/or the groups that the noble represents. Furthermore, a noble can make diplomacy checks against or on behalf of entire groups and nations. The noble may only make diplomacy checks against a group or nation if capable of communicating with one of its leaders and the new attitude takes 2d4 days to carry over.

    Starting at 18th level, the life of a noble has taken on a great deal of value, both to allies and enemies. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or more intending to kill the noble and aware of who the noble is gains some awareness of how valuable the noble would be as a hostage (though it is under no compulsion to act on this awareness). Conversely, allies of the noble now possess a vested interest in keeping him or her alive and well. In effect, the noble possesses a pool of 100,000 gold pieces as if through social currency, though this wealth may only be utilized to heal, protect, or rescue the noble. Only the noble, his or her fellow party members, or direct servants of the noble may call upon this wealth. Unlike Social Currency, this wellspring of wealth is never refilled. Once this aid is used, it is gone forever.

    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    And what would a noble class be without way to gain and abuse social status within a campaign. Most of this stuff is pretty simple and hopefully level appropriate. I’m particularly proud of the final ability for some reason, but that’s probably just me.


    Leader of Men (Ex): Regardless of their precise means and actions, all nobles possess a certain force of personality that draws in others and makes them want to listen. At 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards, a noble may select one of the following abilities. No ability may be selected more than once and all selected abilities may be used in any combination a number of times per day equal to 3 + the Noble's Charisma modifier. Each of these abilities require a move action to activate and last for 5 rounds unless mentioned otherwise. The noble must be capable of speech to use any of these abilities and only allies within 100 feet who can hear and understand the noble are affected (including the noble). Each of these abilities is linked more closely with two PC classes, though any creature could potentially benefit.

    Furthermore, a noble can acquire suitable minions when the situation requires it. At 4th level, the noble may acquire a minion. A minion is an NPC of a level up to the noble's level -3. At least half of all levels a Minion possesses (rounded up) must be in NPC classes while the remaining may be in any PC class linked to one or more selected abilities. A minion functions in most ways as a cohort gained through the leadership feat, though it does not divide experience rewards further with its presence in encounters. Minions can only be acquired in communities of at least 5,000 citizens. A lost or slain minion may be replaced after a week has passed.

    Abilities:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Strengthen Prayer: Whenever the noble uses this ability, the next divine spell each ally casts within the next round gains a +1 insight bonus to its caster level for every 4 class levels the noble possesses. Spells cast from items like potions, scrolls, and staves do not receive this bonus.
    Related Classes: Druid and Cleric

    Restore Resolve: Whenever the noble uses this ability, all affected allies gain 5 temporary hit points for every 4 class levels the noble possesses and fight as though they possess the diehard feat.
    Related Classes: Cleric and Paladin

    Condition Purity: Whenever the noble uses this ability, all affected allies gain Spell Resistance 8 + Noble’s class level. This spell resistance may be willingly lowered to allow allied spell effects without spending an action to do so.
    Related Classes: Paladin and Monk

    Maintain Discipline: Whenever the noble uses this ability, the noble may select a single ally to be affected who must hear and understand that noble. That ally may make an additional saving throw against any noninstantaneous spell or effect is has failed a saving throw against within the past round, gaining a +1 morale bonus to the roll for every 4 class levels the noble possesses and ending the effect early with success. Only one additional chance at success can be granted in this way.
    Related Classes: Monk and Fighter

    Inspire Courage: Whenever the noble uses this ability, affected allies gain a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saves against fear effects for every 4 class levels the noble possesses.
    Related Classes: Fighter and Barbarian

    Wilderness Guide: Whenever the noble uses this ability, affected allies may ignore natural sources of difficult terrain and halve all penalties and damage taken from mundane weather or environmental hazards. This ability can be utilized consistently during overland movement as well, effectively providing a +10 foot bonus to the overland speed of all affected creatures for every 4 class levels the noble possesses. This speed bonus even applies to unintelligent mounts, so long as they are guided or ridden. This ability functions for 1 hour per use instead of 5 rounds.
    Related Classes: Barbarian and Ranger

    Cat and Mouse: Whenever the noble uses this ability, he or she may either lend the benefits of the darkstalker feat to all allies within range (Lords of Madness, p. 179) or grant all such allies blindsense out to a range of 10 feetfor every 4 class levels the noble possesses. Unlike other abilities, the noble need not speak or be heard or understand to utilize this power, though all allies to benefit from this ability must be capable of seeing the noble. This ability functions for 10 minutes instead of 5 rounds.
    Related Classes: Ranger and Rogue

    Reinforce Competence: Whenever the noble uses this ability, he or she selects a single skill. Whenever an affected ally rolls a skill check with the chosen skill, they may take a -4 penalty to their check to use the noble’s ranks in that skill in place of their own. Certain skills (such as move silently or bluff) may be impossible to aid in this way.
    Related Classes: Rogue and Bard

    Monstrous Lore: Whenever the noble uses this ability, you may grant your allies a +1 insight bonus to AC against the natural attacks of a specific type of creature and to saving throws against its racial supernatural and spell-like abilities for every 4 class levels the noble possesses.
    Related Classes: Bard and Wizard

    Bolster Arcana: Whenever the noble uses this ability, the next arcane spell each ally casts within the next round gains a +1 insight bonus to its caster level for every 4 class levels the noble possesses. Spells cast from items like potions, scrolls, and staves do not receive this bonus.
    Related Classes: Wizard/Sorcerer


    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    And here we have another huge ability. One thing about noble classes in just about every form they have taken is that they are (even on the battlefield) “leaders”. As such, giving the noble a small stable of semi-usable minions and some combat buffs seems necessary. The buffing is a bit over what a bard can accomplish seeing as this class will likely require these features to be useful in the battlefield. If you people think that the buffs are too much and that they should be pruned back, each will be limited to a number of daily uses equal to 3 + Cha per day.

    As for the minions, they are kind of in an interesting place. They aren’t really strong enough to take the place of pre-existing party members but they can fill any blank spaces in the party roster that needs to be filled (a rogue/expert can act as a secondary skill monkey or a barbarian/warrior can help fight if you lack strong fighters while spellcasters can help reinforce the party. To be perfectly clear, not having options for every class here is partially due to the amount of effort involved but is also partially on purpose (I’d NEVER make an artificer ability, for example). If the number of minions is viewed as being too high, there will only be one at a time and the noble will be able to “switch out” at any civilization large enough.

    Oh, and yeah, I couldn't quite finish the cycle with a druid/sorcerer ability (no clue what it would look like) but I think that I came close enough, all things considered.


    Royal Purse: Starting at 4th level, a noble has earned the right to borrow permanent material goods from your nation or other nations with which you have established diplomatic relations (see diplomatic ties class feature, below). The total value of all items you can have borrowed at a time is listed in the table above. Items can only be borrowed from communities at least the size of a large town (over 2,000 residents) within or belonging to such a nation. Most items are available within 1d4 hours but exceptionally unusual requests (such as requesting a sailboat in the middle of a desert) instead require 1d4 days or weeks depending on availability and ease of delivery (DM discretion). While magic items are available, items (magical or otherwise) that are expended or that possess charges are never lent out in this way. Any item lost, stolen, or broken subtracts its value from that given on the table above for a year and a day and items sold or traded subtract their value permanently if news of this is discovered. Returning a borrowed item follows a similar process, except that it only ever requires 1 hour and the noble can’t borrow against the value of that object for 24 hours.

    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is another class feature I am particularly proud of for some reason. Most noble or “I have lots of money” classes I’ve seen simply get large lump sums of money as class features, giving a single boost to gear before meaning nothing. This feature, however, has you effectively borrowing gear and lets you return it when you’re done to get new gear. Because of this ability to trade, having the noble around instead of just what they buy you actually has some relevance and a smaller amount of money can still be made to feel relevant even at higher levels.


    Diplomatic Ties: As a noble grows in influence and social stature, the area over which the noble possesses influence grows as this increasing realm of influence increases his or her value to all of his or her allies. At 5th level and every 4 levels afterwards, a noble may select a nation or similar entity. The bonuses that the noble possesses within his or her nation of origin due to his or her noble heritage class feature now apply to the new nation and those bonuses increase by +2. Alternately, the noble may choose a single organization (such as the Westmark Trading Company or the Church of Pelor) and apply the bonus when dealing with that organization (stacking with the bonus for operating within an allied nation), increasing the bonus by +2 as normal. A noble may not select a nation or organization that is actively hostile towards him or herself or his or her preexisting allies.

    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    And now for the political equivalent of favored enemies, getting bigger bonuses in more places to aid with the diplomancy angle. If I’m overlooking something important here, be sure to let me know.


    True Leader: At 20th level, a noble has gained enough experience out in the world to truly claim control over a large number of people, regardless of his or her heritage. The noble effectively gains the leadership feat as a bonus feat. If the noble already possesses the leadership feat, the noble instead gains a +4 bonus to his or her leadership score and doubles the number of 1st-level followers he or she possesses.


    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    I’ve always thought that leadership sounds more like a capstone than anything else and so I’ve decided to grant it as one. It’s as awesome as it ever is but I feel that it feels right as the capstone to a noble class.



    OTHER MATTERS

    When Nations Fall:
    Over the course of a campaign, the biggest problem that a noble may run into is the fall of his or her nation or an allied nation or if it should be taken over by a hostile force. If this should happen, a noble may re-establish him or herself in a new nation with 1d4 weeks of work, so long as the new nation is not actively aggressive towards his current or previous allies.

    The Inactive Noble:
    While this class is made more for an adventuring noble, it is quite possible that a DM would require an inactive noble with more clout than a common aristocrat. In such a case, replace the 300 bonus gold at 1st level with the ability to maintain a wealthy lifestyle within the nation of origin for the noble and allies rather than an average lifestyle. The noble furthermore trades the servant class feature to gain a number of level 1 commoners (of any race without level adjustment or racial hit dice) equal to the Noble’s class level x his or her Charisma modifier, representing serfs and/or slaves. These servants never grow in strength, possess little loyalty to the noble (though they won’t strive to run away unless actively mistreated), and won’t put themselves in danger if at all avoidable. The wealth that they make on behalf of the noble effectively goes towards maintaining the wealthy lifestyle they possess (with less money coming in from other sources as the noble gains self-sufficiency with more serfs). Lost or slain commoners may be replaced at a rate of 1d4 per day.

    Inheritance: If the 1st level of noble isn’t gained during character creation, the initial 300 gp of wealth is gained at an inheritance, which can be acquired at any community containing at least 5,000 individuals within the noble’s nation or origin.

    Rural Nobility: Some people may want to know how certain noble abilities work if no communities within the noble’s nation are large enough. Put simply, if a nation lacks any sort of community that large, nobles such as the class presented here probably don’t exist.

    Should There Be a Noble Class?: I have seen it questioned in the past whether nobles should even be a class at all rather than a simple position of power. I think that I’ve built a decent niche built on skills, political influence, wealth, and buffs with minions but if you were against the idea to begin with, I doubt that this class would do anything to change your mind. Not trying to say that you’re wrong or anything but know that I am aware of that viewpoint and that this was made for people who want to represent aristocracy through their selection in class.
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2013-03-31 at 11:48 AM.
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Broken Damaged Worthless

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    RoC, this is lovely. I will do a full critique later on, busy atm, but I will be returning.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    I wish to say the same as the person above me. I will do a longer posting when I have real time online but for now I want to tell you that this is a brilliant idea and at least in concept is very nicely formed. Hopefully more to say later, but keep being awesome!
    Spoiler: Sigs about the Internet and Life
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


    Awesome Holy Knight Haluesen avatar done by the uber skilled Grinner!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    katarl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    I had written a fairly long winded critique of this class, but I reconsidered and posted this instead, firstly because I'd spent half an hour and only gotten to level 3, and secondly because it was starting to look like I wanted to write it instead, and was scrapping nearly everything. If I got a critique like that, I'd just rage.

    Instead, I'd like to say that it's a very good class and mechanically well written and thought through, but it's a bit generic in places and needs more fluff. It's also a bit overweight (not overpowered, over-WEIGHT), and needs to cut down on long-winded explanations and has a number of buffs and abilities that it doesn't need.

    So, maybe ironically, I'd like to suggest that you make this class a bit more elegant and refined, with a bit more emphasis on fluff.

    Also, some of the class features cut too much out of other classes, and that will annoy the other players at the table, heavy armour, healing, feats etc. It needs to be it's own class, not a better bard.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Australia

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    For Leader of Men , it needs to be stated if the abilities can be picked multiple times or only just once. For many it would look pointless except for the follower however, so I dont think that part really matters.

    However, the leveling part of it needs working.
    First, it is not stated if the followers advance level with the Noble, this needs to be clarified because after a couple of levels, the follower you gained at level for is nothing worth mentioning.
    Second, the ability is almost godly at level 4 [it's like getting the cohort part of leadership with improved cohort, an additional level 3 at level 4, yes please!], but is almost useless by level 20 [Do you really want to bring the level 15 into the fight? Ok, if you insist.]

    Whilst at levels 4 and 8 [[where it most maches leadership]] the power is mitigated by DM control and not all levels being in PC classes, once you start hitting the higher level [At 16 is where the ability tapers of with a level 12 being rather lacking, at least at 12 it's only 3 levels behind] the power begins to really fade. Perhaps you could have them continue leveling as cohorts with a maximum level being Noble Level-3 [or 4, maybe]. The question then would be, do they pick up NPC or PC class levels.

    As for the capstone, there is no problem with it granting leadership [I know another class that can grant it by 12 with homebrew who might like to talk to you about it being a capstone but that's beside the point] I am very weary about it granting a second batch of followers. It might be better if it granted a leadership related feat.
    Also, if it does grant a additional batch of followers, how do feats like improved cohort and extra followers interact, do they affect both, or only one [with the possibility of taking the feat twice to effect both groups.]

    Given the obscene number of cohorts/cohort-likes available to this class, I will say it is best suited to single person play, kingmaker like games or perhaps a encounter. [They can have up to 7 cohorts at level 20 without major shenanigens, however by that point they are lower level, but at say level 8, you have 3 followers all at level 6]. However, that's just my opinion.
    Spoiler: Quotes!
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun Hunter's Recruitment
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    Saying no to a Sun's Hunter is as close as it gets to an invitation to have your place destroyed by them)\
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    In other words, be nice to the murderhobos so they don't murder you?
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusJones View Post
    The professional, well-funded, well-backed, card-carrying, licensed murderhobos, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Congrats, you made me laugh hard enough to draw my family's attention.


    Life is Hectic.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Katarl: I don't think that I can really add much in the way of fluff to something like this if only because "politics" is such a HUGE and varied sphere of influence and trying to "flesh out" the fluff anywhere would be choking out other possibilities in a somewhat oppressive way that most would plain ignore (for example, see duskblades and elves). Of course, it's possible that I'm not getting what you mean by "fluff", in which case I might need an example to see what you're talking about.

    As far as out-doing the bard, I have actually toned back the Leader of Men class feature to put pretty severe limitations on usage per day of the buffs (which were meant to be dressing more than the main focus) and giving out a single minion at a time.

    Erik Vale: I can see what you mean by fading power levels (Cleric 2/Adept 1 at level 4 is much better than Cleric 10/Adept 5 at level 20). Even so, the usefulness of the minions was always supposed to be pushed severely towards the latter rather than the former and restricting the noble to solo games was precisely what I wanted to avoid with this class. As such, I have restricted the noble to a single minion at a time, half of whose levels must be in NPC classes (and which follows the class level -3 formula), acting as a cohort for most purposes. A Warrior 9/Fighter 8 may not compete with an actual brawler and an Expert 9/Rogue 8 isn't a match for a true skill monkey but the point of the minion is to give a passable attempt to fill a missing role in the party, something that has hopefully been accomplished.

    It has now been states that the same ability can't be chosen more than once (though, as you've said, I don't know why anyone would want to).

    Finally, the capstone will no longer stack with actual leadership, instead giving a smallish boost if you happen to possess it already.
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2013-03-30 at 06:32 PM.
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Australia

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post

    Leader of Men (Ex): Regardless of their precise means and actions, all nobles possess a certain force of personality that draws in others and makes them want to listen. At 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards, a noble may select one of the following abilities. No ability may be selected more than once and all selected abilities may be used in any combination a number of times per day equal to 3 + the Noble's Charisma modifier. Each of these abilities require a move action to activate and last for 5 rounds unless mentioned otherwise. The noble must be capable of speech to use any of these abilities and only allies within 100 feet who can hear and understand the noble are affected (including the noble). Each of these abilities is linked more closely with two PC classes, though any creature could potentially benefit.

    Furthermore, a noble can acquire suitable minions when the situation requires it. Once per week at 4th level and one additional time per week every 4 levels afterwards, the noble may acquire a minion. A minion is an NPC of a level up to the noble's level -3. At least half of all levels a Minion possesses (rounded up) must be in NPC classes while the remaining may be in any PC class linked to one or more selected abilities. A minion functions in most ways as a cohort gained through the leadership feat, though it does not divide experience rewards further with its presence in encounters. Minions can only be acquired in communities of at least 5,000 citizens. A lost or slain minion may be replaced after a week has passed.
    You have listed a way to get the minion and possibly change it, but you haven't actually limited the number of minions you can gain. You have just opened it up to the RAW readings that spawn pun-pun. The following clause/s needs to be added [feel free to point out if I have missed it]
    -At any one time, the Noble can have a maximum of 1[Or a different number. Perhaps Noble Level (+ Cha?)/6 rounded down to a minimum of one [Grants up to 3 if you hit level 20... Or perhaps he can have a total level of minions up to Level-3?]. Also, this means the level 4 ability grants a second level 1 minion, so perhaps Noble Level+Cha mod-3 to a maximum of Noble Level-[Smaller number]... Actually, a good way might be to give him a number of followers with levels up to Noble Level+Cha Mod, with no follower being higher than Noble-3 [Minimum of 3 so it is no more powerful than a feat given cohort] to a minimum of X[Say 2 or 3 for when the ability is first gained]. I agree with the Minimum NPC levels, however they do make the followers marginally less useful than before, but it ensures he won't be a one man army any more than any other class.
    -Minions can be dismissed in any city with a population of at least 5000 people to make room for other minions.
    Spoiler: Quotes!
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun Hunter's Recruitment
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    Saying no to a Sun's Hunter is as close as it gets to an invitation to have your place destroyed by them)\
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    In other words, be nice to the murderhobos so they don't murder you?
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusJones View Post
    The professional, well-funded, well-backed, card-carrying, licensed murderhobos, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Congrats, you made me laugh hard enough to draw my family's attention.


    Life is Hectic.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Broken Damaged Worthless

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Hey there, Realms! Sorry it took me a few days to get back to ya, life's been a bear. Anyhow, I promised you a review, and so here it is! Hope you take it into consideration. Let's get to it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Noble
    Well, this is a nice start. A clear name is always good. Upon reading this, I am expecting something involving leadership and decent combat skills (nobles historically are men-at-arms first, everything else second).

    Wherever society springs forth, it always seems as though someone is ready to claim control. From kings to chiefdoms to grand hierophants, leaders of civilization take nearly every form. Spreading off from many of these leaders, often through birth, adoption, and marriage are webs of aristocracy and nobility that engulf entire nations in their grasp. While many would view these nobles as posh and inbred lapdogs for their distant sovereign, a rare few manage to separate themselves from the rest of the aristocracy. Filled with potential and guided by wanderlust, these rare nobles act upon their own behalf, increasing their own standing as they see and experience most of the world. The most active among these nobles, whether seeking adventure or kept from the quiet life of home through mistake or disaster, may even join or fund adventurers out in the world. While not as strong or smart as others, the presence of a noble is felt everywhere that they go.
    Fluffyfluffisfluffy.

    Alignment: Any
    Starting Age: As rogue
    Hit Die: d8
    Sounds great.

    Class Skills:
    Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Listen, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) × 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier
    A few nitpicks:
    • I haaaate it when someone posts a skill list and doesn't post the associated ability with each skill. I know it's annoying to type, but it is just so damn useful.
    • I'm surprised there aren't more Knowledge skills here. Nobles come from money. Money means access to books. Books mean knowledge over whatever you might want to know.
    • Profession? Really? These are nobles, not workers. I wouldn't look to see Profession here honestly. Not complaining (options=good) but it IS surprising.
    • Similarly Disguise is odd.
    • Everything else looks great though. Can't think of anything I'd like to add.


    Noble
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
    Royal Purse

    1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Servant, Noble Heritage|
    --

    2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Influence (Fame), Social Currency|
    --

    3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Noble Heritage|
    --

    4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Leader of Men|
    2,000 gp

    5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Diplomatic Ties +4|
    3,000 gp

    6th|+4|+5|+2|+5|Influence (Leader)|
    4,000 gp

    7th|+5|+5|+2|+5|Noble Heritage|
    5,000 gp

    8th|+6/+1|+6|+2|+6|Leader of Men|
    6,000 gp

    9th|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6|Diplomatic Ties +6|
    7,500 gp

    10th|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Influence (Untouchable)|
    9,000 gp

    11th|+8/+3|+7|+3|+7|Noble Heritage|
    10,500 gp

    12th|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Leader of Men|
    12,000 gp

    13th|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Diplomatic Ties +8|
    14,000 gp

    14th|+10/+5|+9|+4|+9|Influence (Representative)|
    16,000 gp

    15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+5|+9|Noble Heritage|
    18,000 gp

    16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Leader of Men|
    20,000 gp

    17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Diplomatic Ties +10|
    22,500 gp

    18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Influence (Invaluable)|
    25,000 gp

    19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Noble Heritage|
    27,500 gp

    20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|True Leader, Leader of Men|
    30,000 gp

    [/table]
    Ah, a beautiful and full table of contents. I love you, Realms, you get this whole "makin' classes" thing.

    On a chassis level, I like the choice of two good saves and 3/4ths BAB. All good here.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: All nobles are proficient with light weaponry and with light and medium armor, but not with shields.
    Hmm, odd that they don't have better than light weapons. I might look to a mechanic whereby they gain some limited weapons training beyond lights only, sorta like what the Dread Necromancer does.

    Noble Heritage: While nobility may appear widespread at a cursory glance, it can occur in a staggeringly large array of forms. At 1st level, a noble may select two skills representing his or her house or upbringing. Those two skills are treated as class skills for the noble. Alternately, one or both of these skills may be switched for proficiency with heavy armor or with martial weapons or both of these skills may be traded for the skill focus feat in one noble class skill.
    Hmm. I like the class mobility here, but would prefer the weapons be more available to begin with (see above for a potential solution). Otherwise, looks nice.

    Furthermore, each noble inherits some tricks, secrets, and means of ruling others through their noble line, granting them certain benefits. At 1st level, each noble selects a single noble heritage, gaining the appropriate abilities at 1st level, 3rd level, and every 4 levels afterwards. Once this decision has been made, it cannot be later altered.
    Funky! I like it. We'll get to the heritages later on.

    Third, while a noble doesn’t necessarily have the authority to make and enforce laws within his or her home nation, the prestige of noble blood does carry some weight, granting a +2 bonus to all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skill checks made within his or her nation of origin. Within a community at least the size of a large town (over 2,000 residents) within that nation, the noble and a number of companions up to his or her Charisma score (including party members and servitors) are further entitled to an average lifestyle without paying anything out of their own pockets, barring extraordinary conditions (such as siege, aftermath of a natural disaster, mass mind control, etc.).
    A lovely way to really show what nobility is like without just being all "lolcashmoney". Clever, I wish I could say I'd thought of it first! A triumph of form and function.

    Be proud of this, Realms. It's small, but it is beautiful.

    Finally, while most nobles who would be travelling are kept from the full wealth expected of nobility (whether they have run from home, they are kept from their inheritance by woes of legality or procession, or they simply come from a line of landless nobility), they do possess more than the average traveler, starting play with 300 additional gold pieces.
    As someone running a level 1 game right now, I can say "daaaaamn" that's awesome. Letting them really have the gear at level 1 is amazing. Very nice.

    Martial Heritage:
    Martial Strike: While most nobles are trained in combat to varying degrees, one from a more martial heritage can strike hard and true when it counts. Whenever the noble makes an attack, he or she may declare it to be a martial strike. When making a martial strike, the noble gains a +1 insight bonus to the attack and damage roll. These bonuses increase by +1 at 5th level and every 4 levels afterwards. This ability may be used a number of times each day up to 3 + 1/2 of the noble’s class level. This ability counts as possessing a fighter level equal to half of the noble’s class level for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
    Interesting. Not very good, but ok. A minor but cute damage buff. Not super exciting though.

    Martial Training: Beyond simple capability in combat, nobles acquire a good deal of experience to help them out in the fray. At 3rd level, the noble acquires two bonus fighter feats for which it meets all prerequisites. Neither feat may be used as a prerequisite for the other. The noble gains two more fighter feats both at 11th level and at 19th level.
    ...TWO feats? That seems kinda impressively good. I do not believe I have ever seen a class that gave someone two feats in a single level. My gut recoils against this and wonders if you can string it out across a few levels. Is there ANY other way to do this? Like at all?

    Martial Aura: Starting at 7th level, a noble possesses the power to effectively lead others out on the field of combat. The noble effectively lends out one of the bonuses below to all allies within 60 feet capable of hearing and understanding him or her. Where relevant, X equals one third of the noble’s class level, rounded down. The noble benefits from the ability lent out as well. The noble may switch which ability is lent out as a swift action:
    • Allies gain an X x 5% miss chance on all attacks made against them.
    • Allies gain a +X bonus to critical confirmation rolls, damage rolls, and to trip, disarm, sunder, bull rush, overrun, and grapple checks.
    • Allies gain Damage Reduction X/-, stacking with similar forms of damage reduction
    • Allies increase their speed for all modes of movement by X x 5 ft.
    I'd like to see this ability actually use more Marshal terminology. Instead of referring to it as "lending out an ability", just say aura and whatnot. Otherwise, sounds nice.

    Martial Mastery: Starting at 15th level, a noble attains the height of their martial skill. Whenever he or she uses martial strike, only a single use is needed to affect all attacks made as part of a full-attack action. Furthermore, whenever a noble uses martial strike as part of a full attack, he or she may make an additional attack at his or her full base attack bonus.
    Ok, this is nice and totally reasonable at this level. I kinda wonder if it isn't underpowered actually.

    At level 15, martial strike is going to be +4 atk/dmg 10/day. That's unimpressive at this point. At these levels the actual fighters are going to be doing far more than that all the time. Perhaps give more uses or make each use better somehow?

    Arcane-Blooded Heritage:
    Arcane Power: The noble possesses some rough ability to cast arcane spells, though neither like a wizard nor a sorcerer. At 1st level, a noble selects whether it will possess access to the necromancy school or enchantment school of magic. The noble may only learn spells from the chosen school of magic plus the abjuration, conjuration, and divination schools. The noble starts play with 3 1st-level spells and learns an additional spell at each even level, none of which may possess a higher spell level than 1 + 1/4 of the noble’s class level. No spell may be chosen more than once. Each spell must be selected from the sorcerer/wizard spell list and is usable 1/day as an arcane spell with a caster level equal to the noble’s class level. The saving throw to resist, if any, equals 10 + spell level + Cha modifier. The noble may apply metamagic effects to these spells by sacrificing both the spell to be modified and a spell of at least the modified spell level (if casting a silenced detect evil, for example, the noble must both sacrifice detect evil and any 2nd-level or higher spell). Casting a spell with metamagic in this way is a full-round action and the quicken spell feat may not be used. This class feature counts as possessing a sorcerer level equal to half of the noble’s class level for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for draconic feats and other heritage feats.
    A few thoughts: Ok, why no illusion, evocation, or transmutation? You already have necromancy and conjuration on there, two very powerful schools, so you cannot possibly be concerned about power. I definitely suggest opening up the remaining schools and adding them to the choices you can select from.

    And damn, this ability does a lot of work. I would suggest leaving metamagic to real casters (the noble hasn't dedicated the time and energy to spellcasting).

    I like it, but I wonder if it's not just "trolololoverpowered".

    Arcane Training: Beyond simple skill with arcane power, a noble gains skill at using this spellcasting potential. At 3rd level, the noble gains two bonus feats that must be metamagic feats, item creation feats, reserve feats, draconic feats, or other heritage feats. The noble must meet all prerequisites for both feats and neither feat may be used as a prerequisite for the other. The noble gains two more bonus feats both at 11th level and at 19th level.
    Again with the double feats. Stop it. Otherwise, this is fine.

    Arcane Journeyman: Starting at 7th level, a noble can call forth a magical minion to serve them, a sign of their dominance over arcane energies. The noble gains a familiar that benefits as if the noble possessed a wizard level equal to its class level. Furthermore, the noble gains the improved familiar feat, allowing for stronger creatures to be called forth as this minion.
    And here we get the first indication of the leadership role of the noble. I like it.

    Quickened Casting: Starting at 15th level, a noble can call upon magic in hardly any time at all. After casting an arcane spell gained through the noble’s arcane power class feature, it may cast a second such spell at least two spell levels lower as a swift action.
    This sounds too powerful off the cuff. After a brief check, it permits a fourth level spell into a swift action second level spell each round for as long as you have fourths. Once you hit thirds, you are doing a third-->a first every round. Anything that allows you to rapidly spit out spells seems ripe for abuse.

    I would suggest a tight reexamination of this ability in order to determine precisely what this is going to enable. I'm biased against swift action spellcasting, but with solid reason I think.

    Divine-Blooded Heritage:
    Divine Power: The noble possesses some rough ability to cast divine spells, though unlike most other divine casters. At 1st level, a noble selects whether it will possess access to druid spell list or the cleric spell list. The noble may only learn spells from the chosen spell list. The noble starts play with 3 1st-level spells and learns an additional spell at each even level, none of which may possess a higher spell level than 1 + 1/4 of the noble’s class level. No spell may be chosen more than once. Each spell is usable 1/day as a divine spell with a caster level equal to the noble’s class level. The saving throw to resist, if any, equals 10 + spell level + Cha modifier. The noble may apply metamagic effects to these spells by sacrificing both the spell to be modified and a spell of at least the modified spell level (if casting a silenced detect evil, for example, the noble must both sacrifice detect evil and any 2nd-level or higher spell). Casting a spell with metamagic in this way is a full-round action and the quicken spell feat may not be used. This class feature counts as turning or rebuking undead for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of divine feats and devotion feats and is treated as the wildshape class feature for the purpose of meeting the prerquisites of wild feats if the noble can cast spells of at least 3rd level. Any spell may be expended as if it were a use of turn or rebuke undead for the purpose of these feats and any spell of at least 3rd level may be expended for the purpose of a wild feat.
    As with arcane power, I would suggest losing the metamagic aspect. Otherwise, looks fine.

    Divine Training: Beyond simple skill with divine power, a noble gains skill at using this spellcasting potential. At 3rd level, the noble gains two bonus feats that must be metamagic feats, item creation feats, devotion feats, divine feats, or wild feats. The noble must meet all prerequisites for both feats and neither feat may be used as a prerequisite for the other. The noble gains two more bonus feats both at 11th level and at 19th level.
    You and double feats. Cut it out already!

    Divine Journeyman: Starting at 7th level, a noble gains some greater sign of divine power depending on what source of magic it wields, signifying the noble’s divine favor. If casting spells from the cleric spell list, the noble gains access to a single divine domain of his or her god (or that suits the ideal he or she worships). The noble gains the granted power and may cast one of the spells from that domain each day by sacrificing a spell of equal or higher level gained through his or her divine power class feature. If casting spells from the druid spell list, the noble instead gains an animal companion, using his or her noble level in place of his or her druid level to determine the benefits.
    You know, this looks fine.

    Quickened Casting: Starting at 15th level, a noble can call upon magic in hardly any time at all. After casting a divine spell gained through the noble’s arcane power class feature, it may cast a second such spell at least two spell levels lower as a swift action.
    See my concerns with the arcane version. Same business applies here.

    Canny Heritage:
    Uncanny Skill: while most nobles may seem quite skilled, one from a canny heritage rarely runs across a task that he or she lacks even some proficiency in. Whenever a noble would make a skill check, he or she may choose to utilize uncanny skill. When utilizing uncanny skill, the noble may treat his or her ranks in the skill as equaling his or her class level if otherwise lower. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + 1/2 of the Noble’s class level. The noble is treated as possessing ranks in all skills at least equal to half of his or her class feature for the purpose of meeting prerequisites. Furthermore, whenever a noble uses a skill trick (complete scoundrel), he or she may spend a use of this ability rather than expending that trick for the encounter (or for the day, depending on the skill trick).
    Huh, curious. I wonder if this ability allows feat/class access that it really shouldn't, but I'm rusty enough on my rules abuse these days that I can't say anything with definition.

    I do like it though, feels like something interesting and fun to play with.

    Dilettante Training: Rather than focusing talents on any particular area, a noble from a canny lineage learns a bit of just about everything. At 3rd level, the noble gains any three general feats as bonus feats so long as they possess no prerequisites. Furthermore, the noble gains a bonus skill trick (complete scoundrel) it meets all prerequisites for without spending skill points. This skill trick doesn’t count towards the limit of how many the noble may possess. The noble gains another three feats and a skill trick at 11th level and again at 19th level.
    I dislike that this ability cannot be fully utilized without a splat book. That really grates on me. I'm not sure what to replace it with, but that really just bothers me.

    I would bitch about three feats in one level, but honestly, no prerequisite feats are generally terrible, so I'm not concerned. If you do change the other feat tracks to one feat, then I'd suggest changing this one to two feats, in fairness.

    Quick Skills: Starting at 7th level, a noble can perform most tasks with great speed. The noble no longer takes penalties to skill checks for speeding them or for moving more quickly when using certain skills like climb or tumble (though the maximum speed movable while using such skills doesn’t change).
    Nice! I love it.

    Skill Mastery: Starting at 15th level, a noble can nearly ensure success at most tasks apart from combat. Whenever the noble rolls a result of under 10 when making a skill check, he or she may treat the result of the roll as a 10.[/spoiler]
    Funky. Does this also let you take 10 whenever you want? If not, it better.

    Servant: At 1st level, a noble gains the service of a plain if loyal servant and assistant to help you with most mundane matters. The servant is an expert of your race with levels equal to the noble’s class level, possessing feats and skills of the player’s choice. The servitor is an NPC under the control of the DM, however, and it does all that it can to avoid entering dungeons, fighting in battles, or putting itself in other dangerous situations. The servant requires no formal form of pay, remaining out of loyalty to the noble and receiving a +4 bonus to all saves against mind-affecting effects, though the noble is responsible for providing for the servant (including equipment) and will leave if repeatedly mistreated or tricked into danger. A replacement for a lost or slain servant may be obtained after a month has passed.
    I've never seen unseen servant (heh, I'm funny) as a class feature before. Turns out it's fine.

    Social Currency (Ex): At 2nd level, a noble can use his or her influence to receive special treatment, favors, and other services. The noble effectively has a pool of virtual gold pieces equal to 150 plus 10 gp per class level to spend on services and non-material. This pool replenishes at the start of each week. The types of services and nonmaterial goods available to a noble may include:

    • Pay for lodgings, stabling, taxes, and tolls.
    • Improve his lifestyle quality.
    • Hire entertainers, messengers, mounts, servants, transport, workers, and so on.
    • Obtain invitations to exclusive events, or entry into privileged locations.
    • Spread rumors or start a whispering campaign.
    • Purchase spellcasting services.
    • Employ an expert hireling to make a skill check with a check bonus of +10 plus his class level (50 gp).


    A noble cannot permanently gain goods or wealth from this ability; boons attainable from this ability are generally only available in settlements of 5,000 people or more. The exact benefits available in a location are subject to DM discretion.
    You thief you, you stole this one (and admitted to it)! Now I see why you use the thief avatar.

    But seriously, this sort of ability is great in my eyes, mostly because it makes the noble a team player (he saves the party cash by buying spellcasting services or hirelings).

    Influence (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the name and face of a noble start to gain some degree of fame and influence among others. The noble may add half of his or her class level as a bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate checks when dealing with leaders. The same value is decreased from the DCs of Knowledge (local), Knowledge (royalty and nobility), and Gather Information checks made to gather publically available information about the noble.
    Funky, I like it. We're getting into the leadership stuff now, which excites me.

    Starting at 6th level, the influence of a noble is sufficient to smooth over most of life’s difficulties. The noble and a number of chosen allies up to his or her Charisma score are exempt from paying taxes, tithes, tariffs, or similar costs. Furthermore, with 1d4 hours of working in a community at least indifferent towards the noble and his or her causes, the noble can muster a work force of up to 1% of the town’s population (minimum of 1, maximum of 10/class level). All recruited citizens are level 1 experts of the most populous race in town and they are willing to work for up to 24 hours so long as the work does not involve battle or put them in any serious danger. This ability may not be used more than once per week in a single community.
    I guess this one makes sense, though I'm not the biggest fan. It's boring, but I see why it needed to be here, so I'm not complaining.

    Starting at 10th level, a noble’s influence makes them all but untouchable in many ways. The noble and a number of chosen allies up to his or her Charisma score are treated to a limited degree of diplomatic immunity, excusing them from most legal limitations (such as bans on magic, armor, or weaponry within settlements) and excusing them from most crimes short of treason or murder. Furthermore, any entity acting openly against the noble or his or her chosen allies earns the enmity of the noble’s allies such as his or her nation of origin and all additional nations or organizations he or she is linked to through the noble’s diplomatic ties class feature, making all such allies unfriendly (if not already hostile) towards the offending group.
    I can only really judge this one once I get to diplomatic ties, so just see whatever I have to say about that one (see below).

    The immunity is flavorful, minor, and nice.

    Starting at 14th level, a noble becomes a political voice, speaking on behalf of entire nations and communities. As such, with 1d4 hours of work within a community, a noble can come into contact with any leader of that community, up to and including those who are hostile towards the noble and/or the groups that the noble represents. Furthermore, a noble can make diplomacy checks against or on behalf of entire groups and nations. The noble may only make diplomacy checks against a group or nation if capable of communicating with one of its leaders and the new attitude takes 2d4 days to carry over.
    This one I actually don't like. I dislike it because it is presuming that the noble is *actively* linked to their nation/group/whatever whereas the beginning of the class assumes a wandering sort of noble who has seemingly shirked his/her duty to the family and is an itinerant wanderer sort of fellow, attached by default but kinda off doing their own thing.

    There's a flavor twist happening here that I don't think and doesn't fit well. Instead, I might like to see this ability serve to make them ambassadors in a more serious sense, letting them serve as a communications channel, not a diplomat. They should be limited to ferrying messages and acquiring serious audiences, not speak as their home's mouthpiece.

    Starting at 18th level, the life of a noble has taken on a great deal of value, both to allies and enemies. Any sentient creature intending to kill the noble and aware of who the noble is gains some awareness of how valuable the noble would be as a hostage (though it is under no compulsion to act on this awareness). Conversely, allies of the noble now possess a vested interest in keeping him or her alive and well. In effect, the noble possesses a pool of 100,000 gold pieces as if through social currency, though this wealth may only be utilized to heal, protect, or rescue the noble. Only the noble, his or her fellow party members, or direct servants of the noble may call upon this wealth. Unlike Social Currency, this wellspring of wealth is never refilled. Once this aid is used, it is gone forever.
    Looks great, I like it.

    Notes and Explanation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    And what would a noble class be without way to gain and abuse social status within a campaign. Most of this stuff is pretty simple and hopefully level appropriate. I’m particularly proud of the final ability for some reason, but that’s probably just me.
    I wasn't planning on responding to notes generally, but I just wanted to say that you are right to feel proud. This is a very masterful class, even through my complaining and nitpicking.

    Leader of Men (Ex): Regardless of their precise means and actions, all nobles possess a certain force of personality that draws in others and makes them want to listen. At 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards, a noble may select one of the following abilities. No ability may be selected more than once and all selected abilities may be used in any combination a number of times per day equal to 3 + the Noble's Charisma modifier. Each of these abilities require a move action to activate and last for 1 round unless mentioned otherwise. The noble must be capable of speech to use any of these abilities and only allies within 100 feet who can hear and understand the noble are affected (including the noble). Each of these abilities is linked more closely with two PC classes, though any creature could potentially benefit.
    Hmm. We'll see what we've got here. Are these abilities spell-like? Supernatural? Extraordinary?

    Furthermore, a noble can acquire suitable minions when the situation requires it. Once per week at 4th level and one additional time per week every 4 levels afterwards, the noble may acquire a minion. A minion is an NPC of a level up to the noble's level -3. At least half of all levels a Minion possesses must be in NPC classes while the remaining may be in any PC class linked to one or more selected abilities. A minion willingly serves for up to 24 hours, even going through dangerous (though not suicidal) tasks and serving in most ways as a cohort gained through the leadership feat. Minions can only be acquired in communities of at least 5,000 citizens. A lost or slain minion may be replaced after a week has passed.
    How many minions can you have? At level 8, it looks like you can have two at once. Is that intended? Being able to be all "hai guyz, I can haz minion armyz nao?" might ruffle feathers a bit in the party.

    About the minions, specifically casters, who determines their spells known/prepared? Does the player or the DM? Might want to provide a little guidance to players on how to deal with that chestnut.

    Also, where the hell do they come from? The Aether? A magical box? Oz?

    Strengthen Prayer: Whenever the noble uses this ability, the next divine spell each ally casts within the next round gains a +1 insight bonus to its caster level for every 4 class levels the noble possesses. Spells cast from items like scrolls and staves do not receive this bonus.
    Related Classes: Druid and Cleric
    Ok, looks fine.

    Here's the big question: does this affect potions? It'd be nice if it affected potions (cure spells!).

    Restore Resolve: Whenever the noble uses this ability, all affected allies gain 5 temporary hit points for every 4 class levels the noble possesses and fight as though they possess the diehard feat.
    Related Classes: Cleric and Paladin
    Huh. Funkalicious. I dig it.

    Condition Purity: Whenever the noble uses this ability, all affected allies gain Spell Resistance 8 + Noble’s class level. This spell resistance may be willingly lowered to allow allied spell effects without spending an action to do so.
    Related Classes: Paladin and Monk
    Granting spell resistance is pretty solid. Oh, quick question: is the noble affected by these?

    Maintain Discipline: Whenever the noble uses this ability, the noble may select a single ally to be affected who must hear and understand that noble. That ally may make an additional saving throw against any noninstantaneous spell or effect is has failed a saving throw against within the past round, gaining a +1 morale bonus to the roll for every 4 class levels the noble possesses and ending the effect early with success. Only one additional chance at success can be granted in this way.
    Related Classes: Monk and Fighter
    Ok, I had a question, but it answered itself.

    Inspire Courage: Whenever the noble uses this ability, affected allies gain a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saves against fear effects for every 4 class levels the noble possesses.
    Related Classes: Fighter and Barbarian
    I like this, but for some reason I don't like the bonus type. Not sure why, just me probably.

    Wilderness Guide: Whenever the noble uses this ability, affected allies may ignore natural sources of difficult terrain and halve all penalties and damage taken from mundane weather or environmental hazards. This ability can be utilized consistently during overland movement as well, effectively providing a +10 foot bonus to the overland speed of all affected creatures for every 4 class levels the noble possesses. This speed bonus even applies to unintelligent mounts, so long as they are guided or ridden.
    Related Classes: Barbarian and Ranger
    Wow this is boring. I was expecting a favored enemy effect for the Bbn/Rgr effect. I... can't really see myself ever taking this one. I'd definitely suggest a favored enemy (or maybe favored terrain) effect for this one instead.

    My rational is based mostly on the fact that these are all so far combat focused and this one is completely not. You could maybe do a favored whatever, or possibly a rage, or even a skirmish-type effect.

    Cat and Mouse: Whenever the noble uses this ability, he or she may either lend the benefits of the darkstalker feat to all allies within range (Lords of Madness, p. 179) or grant all such allies blindsense out to a range of 10 feetfor every 4 class levels the noble possesses. Unlike other abilities, the noble need not speak or be heard or understand to utilize this power, though all allies to benefit from this ability must be capable of seeing the noble.
    Related Classes: Ranger and Rogue
    Ok, I like this one. It does bug me that he can cheat and get darkstalker without actually having the feat, but ok. It also bothers me that without LoM this ability isn't complete.

    Reinforce Competence: Whenever the noble uses this ability, he or she selects a single skill. Whenever an affected ally rolls a skill check with the chosen skill, they may take a -4 penalty to their check to use the noble’s ranks in that skill in place of their own. Certain skills (such as move silently or bluff) may be impossible to aid in this way.
    Related Classes: Rogue and Bard
    I think a list of skills that you can use this one is warranted.

    Monstrous Lore: Whenever the noble uses this ability, you may grant your allies a +1 insight bonus to AC against the natural attacks of a specific type of creature and to saving throws against its racial supernatural and spell-like abilities for every 4 class levels the noble possesses.
    Related Classes: Bard and Wizard
    And here we are, the favored enemy ability. Wait... why does it say "Bard and Wizard"? Oh, is this the whole Dark Knowledge thing of the Archivist? That's... different. I might like to see this move up to the Ranger/Barbarian ability and then have the Bard/Wizard ability become something else.

    Bolster Arcana: Whenever the noble uses this ability, the next arcane spell each ally casts within the next round gains a +1 insight bonus to its caster level for every 4 class levels the noble possesses. Spells cast from items like scrolls and staves do not receive this bonus.
    Related Classes: Wizard/Sorcerer[/spoiler]
    Pooooootions!

    Oh, and yeah, I couldn't quite finish the cycle with a druid/sorcerer ability (no clue what it would look like) but I think that I came close enough, all things considered.
    Druid/Sorcerer would be about exploiting the individual's connection to life (the druid to the natural world, the sorcerer to their sorcerous ancestor). Kind of a stretch, but workable.

    Royal Purse: Starting at 4th level, a noble has earned the right to borrow permanent material goods from your nation or other nations with which you have established diplomatic relations (see diplomatic ties class feature, below). The total value of all items you can have borrowed at a time is listed in the table above. Items can only be borrowed from communities at least the size of a large town (over 2,000 residents) within or belonging to such a nation. Most items are available within 1d4 hours but exceptionally unusual requests (such as requesting a sailboat in the middle of a desert) instead require 1d4 days or weeks depending on availability and ease of delivery (DM discretion). While magic items are available, items (magical or otherwise) that are expended or that possess charges are never lent out in this way. Any item lost, stolen, or broken subtracts its value from that given on the table above for a year and a day and items sold or traded subtract their value permanently if news of this is discovered. Returning a borrowed item follows a similar process, except that it only ever requires 1 hour and the noble can’t borrow against the value of that object for 24 hours.
    Beautiful, simply beautiful. I love it.

    Diplomatic Ties: As a noble grows in influence and social stature, the area over which the noble possesses influence grows as this increasing realm of influence increases his or her value to all of his or her allies. At 5th level and every 4 levels afterwards, a noble may select a nation or similar entity. The bonuses that the noble possesses within his or her nation of origin due to his or her noble heritage class feature now apply to the new nation and those bonuses increase by +2. Alternately, the noble may choose a single organization (such as the Westmark Trading Company or the Church of Pelor) and apply the bonus when dealing with that organization (stacking with the bonus for operating within an allied nation), increasing the bonus by +2 as normal. A noble may not select a nation or organization that is actively hostile towards him or herself or his or her preexisting allies.
    Hmm. Doesn't say who you're with to start out. I feel like it should. In fact, I don't recall ever seeing something saying who you start out as a noble of, but I guess that's a DM thing.

    True Leader: At 20th level, a noble has gained enough experience out in the world to truly claim control over a large number of people, regardless of his or her heritage. The noble effectively gains the leadership feat as a bonus feat. If the noble already possesses the leadership feat, its effects are doubled, granting an additional cohort and an additional set of followers.
    Bout damn time we got this one.


    ***************

    Overall, I am impressed. This is an excellent take on the idea of nobility and the class in general is excellently put together. I wonder if it won't be a little weak, but I think only playtesting could possibly solve that question.

    There are some issues (too many bonus feats at once, a few abilities seem either useless or lolwtfbbqoverpowered, some vagueness about minions), but they are mostly minor.

    Really, very very well done. I am proud to have a chance to review it. If I was to give you a grade, I'd roll with an A- (excellent, but with room to grow).

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    katarl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Of course, it's possible that I'm not getting what you mean by "fluff", in which case I might need an example to see what you're talking about.
    Yeah, it's a bit vague. The best example I can think of is the Heritage class feature- either skill-based, combat, divine or arcane. This makes perfect sense from a mechanical perspective- they are the archetypes upon which each class is based. However, a class feature that simple to describe is bland and boring even if it is balanced (what I call the 4e mentality, balance at the cost of fluff).

    Some of the other abilities are also like this, such as Leader of Men.

    One thing that bothers me, a good fortitude- why? Everything else in the opening lead up seems sensible, or close enough.

    Hmm, odd that they don't have better than light weapons. I might look to a mechanic whereby they gain some limited weapons training beyond lights only, sorta like what the Dread Necromancer does.
    This.

    Hmm. I like the class mobility here, but would prefer the weapons be more available to begin with (see above for a potential solution). Otherwise, looks nice.
    I disagree, heavy armour belongs to the fighter/cleric bracket. Nobles don't need it, and if they do they can just spend the feat/multiclass.

    ...TWO feats? That seems kinda impressively good. I do not believe I have ever seen a class that gave someone two feats in a single level. My gut recoils against this and wonders if you can string it out across a few levels. Is there ANY other way to do this? Like at all?
    No-one, anywhere, gets two feats at once as a class feature. Just why?

    And here we get the first indication of the leadership role of the noble. I like it.
    Nobles and familiars are a good staple, think Dragons and Game of Thrones.

    I like it, but I wonder if it's not just "trolololoverpowered".
    I agree, but I'm not wondering, it is so, which is a shame, because martial heritage was much weaker.

    I'd like to see this ability actually use more Marshal terminology. Instead of referring to it as "lending out an ability", just say aura and whatnot. Otherwise, sounds nice.
    Once you start comparing this to the marshall ability, it starts to seem overpowered, I can't think of any similar abilities this powerful, and the marshall does nothing else.

    Perhaps you could drop this ability and combine a marshall-like ability with the martial heritage, solve two problems at once?

    I dislike that this ability cannot be fully utilized without a splat book. That really grates on me. I'm not sure what to replace it with, but that really just bothers me.

    I would bitch about three feats in one level, but honestly, no prerequisite feats are generally terrible, so I'm not concerned. If you do change the other feat tracks to one feat, then I'd suggest changing this one to two feats, in fairness.
    There aren't that many skill tricks to choose from, particularly if you're going for an ambassador type. If I were playing, I'd want a machiavellian type, and instinctively go for the canny heritage, but at this level, I'd start asking myself why I bothered.

    Funky. Does this also let you take 10 whenever you want? If not, it better.
    Nothing to see here.

    You and double feats. Cut it out already!


    Starting at 18th level, the life of a noble has taken on a great deal of value, both to allies and enemies. Any sentient creature intending to kill the noble and aware of who the noble is gains some awareness of how valuable the noble would be as a hostage (though it is under no compulsion to act on this awareness). Conversely, allies of the noble now possess a vested interest in keeping him or her alive and well. In effect, the noble possesses a pool of 100,000 gold pieces as if through social currency, though this wealth may only be utilized to heal, protect, or rescue the noble. Only the noble, his or her fellow party members, or direct servants of the noble may call upon this wealth. Unlike Social Currency, this wellspring of wealth is never refilled. Once this aid is used, it is gone forever
    Great ability, but needs better wording, I had to reread this a few times. Sentient is not the phrase to use, it's Intelligence of 3 or more.

    Royal Purse:
    There's a feat in pathfinder that does the same thing as this, but you can get it at level one. Just FYI. (EDIT, this feat is called Profits of Kalistrade)

    I'd level this from level one (starting at 300?) to be more like the artificer's craft pool, since the features are kinda similar.

    Bout damn time we got this one.
    Epic leadership plus legendary commander plus 20 levels noble. Then I pull out Power of Faerun and add Renown. Suddenly my PC has more followers than Jesus.

    But since it was done in epic levels, nobody cared.
    Last edited by katarl; 2013-03-31 at 07:21 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    The noble has a good fortitude save to resist all of the poisoning assassination attempts

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Before I deal with anything else, you guys probably need to set me straight on something. What is overpowered about the spellcasting? Seriously, what is overpowered about it? Apart from Rangers or Paladins, this was devised to be literally the least advantageous spellcasting system in existence.

    By 20th level, you get 13 spells: 4 1st level, 2 2nd, 2 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th, and 1 6th. All of them come from one spell list (or part of one for the arcanists). Each of those spells may be used only 1/day, you may not juggle daily uses between them, and can't ever switch them out. They are not used as SLAs but you get no bonus uses for high ability scores. You aren't even counted as using spell slots so I don't think the extra spell slot feat does anything for you. Metamagic, while arguable better than a prepared caster, is worse than a spontaneous caster as you have to sacrifice both a spell of the modified spell level and the spell itself (meaning that you can't sacrifice multiple spells to "get ahead"). The only nice things to be said is that your spells automatically restore each day and that you technically end up with more spells than the factotum.

    Even though quickening spells as a class feature may look nice, it really only gives you 6 rounds of rather inflexible spellcasting before leaving you with a single 1st level spell. Similarly, casting 6 spells with metamagic feats would leave you similarly depleted. To reiterate, 13 spells per day/known at maximum.

    At least, that was the intention. If people are calling the mechanics of the spellcasting overpowered, there is obviously something that I have missed or worded horribly that requires correction. Could you guys point out what it is?
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2013-03-31 at 10:01 AM.
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Broken Damaged Worthless

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Before I deal with anything else, you guys probably need to set me straight on something. What is overpowered about the spellcasting? Seriously, what is overpowered about it? Apart from Rangers or Paladins, this was devised to be literally the least advantageous spellcasting system in existence.
    And yet it has the power to randomly throw out 6 full rounds of quickened spells a day with zero downside, along with lead a very effective force and possibly have other things to do.

    3.5 as a system prioritizes actions over literally everything else. The more actions you have, the better you are, with swift/immediate actions being rare and difficult to acquire. Spells are powerful to begin with and having the free option to double down on your spells, even if you don't have many, is incredibly potent. Just because you can't do it much doesn't matter as to how insanely powerful it is.

    Before you respond with "well, primary casters can do it" remember that there is a reason Quicken Spell is a +4 metamagic and that primary casters are the single most brokenly unbalanced thing in the entire system. Just because Wizards can do it doesn't make it ok.

    As a constructive note, if you want to give Nobles some ability to Quicken, just make that level 15 ability the power to let them auto-quicken once/day. That'd I'd have less issue with (once/day vs. six/day).

    At least, that was the intention. If people are calling the mechanics of the spellcasting overpowered, there is obviously something that I have missed or worded horribly that requires correction. Could you guys point out what it is?
    See above. Otherwise, I have very few issues with the casting and generally like your approach. My only serious trouble is with the quickening effect, which is truly too much.

    Sidenote: I'm against giving them metamagic at all just on principle, not a power level concern. See the below argument for why.

    Here's the argument against Noble metamagic:
    Premise 1: You have constructed a system that you want to be limited in a major way. Above, you specifically put it on the level of Ranger/Paladin casting.
    Premise 2: The Noble is a jack-of-all-trades class with a minor focus on leading people.
    Premise 3: Metamagic is extremely powerful.
    Premise 4: Only primary casters should have free and unfettered access to metamagic.
    Example: When was the last time you saw a Ranger or Paladin use metamagic?
    Conclusion: The Noble should not have metamagic as they are not a primary caster and are more akin to Rangers and Paladins in their casting abilities.

    Here's my argument against the auto-quickening effect specifically:
    Premise 1: Actions are the most powerful resource in 3.5.
    Premise 2: Spells are the second most powerful resource.
    Conclusion 1: More spells than normal in a round is inherently a powerful and dangerous effect.
    Premise 3: C1 should only be available to a character that has focused on spellcasting.
    Premise 4: The Noble has not focused on spellcasting.
    Conclusion 2: C1 should not be available to the Noble.


    This is how I see things. Please do understand, Realms, that I really do like this class. It's a wonderful class, with only a few issues. I'm just trying to improve it. Don't take this as an attack on you, it is totally not meant to be one.
    Last edited by arguskos; 2013-03-31 at 10:34 AM.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Okay, I guess that makes sense. I guess that I was confused as I was going for nerfed bard more than paladin/ranger, the metamagic system was strictly weaker than it was for the bard, and I've never heard even the normal bard called "trolololoverpowered". I understand now that you speaking in comparison to other options rather than compared to other classes but hearing it still kind of confused the hell out of me. Even so, removed metamagic and limited quickened actions to 1/day.

    Now for full counterresponses:

    Basic Chasis: I've always considered Fort save to be quite vital for anyone calling themselves a noble. Resisting poison, surviving death attacks and coup de graces, death effects, etc. While the fluff may be weak-ish, this seems to make the most sense from a more mechanical standpoint without hurting the flavor too much (and this is a class for adventuring nobles in particular).

    At all of your suggestions, I have included free proficiency with a martial weapon and downgraded basic armor proficiencies to light (upgradable to medium through noble lineage).

    As far as knowledge skills, I considered giving all of them but thought it might be too much, though they're in now.

    Disguise is in there for the quintessential noble trying to blend in with commoners or stay low routine (keep in mind that the stats are for an "adventuring noble" rather than a basic everyday noble ).

    Profession is there because it's basically everywhere, though I guess this would be the one place where it might be dropped if you think it should be.

    Noble Heritage: As mentioned above, it can now grant you medium armor instead of heavy armor.

    The two feats at a time thing came from a general worry that giving out one feat at a time wouldn't seem like nearly enough. Now, however, I seem to remember that wizards get a single feat at 20th level so I've reduced all of the feat progressions down (the canny heritage still gets two at a time but it's restricted to stuff like skill focus so I don't feel too bad).

    As far as fluff, I provided a decent 5 lines of fluff for each separate lineage while most class features get, at most, a single descriptory sentence. How much fluff do you actually want here?

    For martial heritage, martial mastery and martial strike are basically made to make the noble feel like a full BAB class with slight bonuses (the attack bonuses from martial strike come at the same levels when your BAB doesn't increase and martial mastery grants you a full attack with 4 attacks going +20/+20/+15/+10). The damage bonus just compensates if you lack a high strength score. The aura (for that's what it's always been) is now properly called an aura. While it's true that this is stronger than a martial's aura, I personally don't think twice about stepping on the (un-fixed) marshal as it was a pretty terrible class (except for maybe a dip). I'm open to arguments for the contrary, however.

    For the divine/arcane heritage, as listed above, metamagic no longer works and quickening is restricted to 1/day.

    For canny heritage, I can't think of anything the prerequisites would break either. If someone brings up a potential avenue for broken-ness, however, action will be taken. As for dilettante training... 3.5 REALLY seems to hate its own skill system. There are no sub-forms of feats dealing with skills as there is for combat or spells and the closest things we get, as pointed out, appear in a splatbook late in the system's life. With that said, I wouldn't feel like the ability was complete without them and I don't really know what to replace them with. I don't quite agree with the statement of there not being enough of them if only because you are only granted 3 of them (meaning half of them if you choose to go for only social ones). If that isn't enough, there is always homebrew. But, yeah, if someone has a good idea for a skill trick equivalent that wouldn't require me to create and post up a new subsystem, feel free to suggest it.

    Influence: I'm surprised the level 6 ability isn't liked more. Who doesn't want a mundane lyre of building at level 6.

    As for the level 14 ability, I was picturing it more as the noble being able to speak on behalf of their allies and having it count rather than suddenly having an official position and rank. With the leadership capstone, I guess that I always kind of had it in my head that the noble is trusted with more and more privileges as he or she levels up and being "able" to work as an ambassador seemed right.

    As for the level 18 ability, I have been pulled into the sapient/sentient vortex, though I do believe D&D has used sentient to refer to creatures with 3 or more Intelligence in the past (no matter how badly the word is abused in this way). Even so, removed the word sentient. As for the rest of the ability, not exactly how to best reword.

    Leader of Men:
    Erik Vale: what you bolded was a leftover remnant from another rewording attempt in which you'd get a certain number of days in service from a minion each week, used to either gain one minion over a longer-time span or multiple for a shorter mission. The wording has been corrected and there shouldn't be any more language suggesting that you would possess more than once cohort. If there is, point out the ambiguity and I will remove it.

    The abilities are extraordinary (seeing as the entire ability is extraordinary ). the spell-boosting abilities do not boost potions. I didn't go with favored enemies as I figured it would seem pretty much exactly like inspire courage and I was going for something of a mix involving offensive/defensive/miscellaneous abilities (currently 3/4/3). Not sure what other type of bonus I would make inspire courage, either. The words "(including the noble)" are in the first paragraph so that should answer the first question. Again, it does indeed hurt to refer to darkstalker by name but if I wrote out the effects of what it did, it would take up a lot more space only to have someone come along and ask "oh, you mean darkstalker?"

    Royal Purse: I'm personally happy with the ability the way it is. I had no idea that profits of kalistrade was a thing and... it looks as broken as hell. One feat for 30K+ in wealth that is trade-able is in the same tier of broken as leadership (not as bad but still heads and shoulders above 99% of other feats), to the point where I'd wonder why anyone wouldn't take it. If that weren't enough, read the second sentence. You can pour all of your gold into the feat to effectively make all of your wealth fully modular forever. Never sell equipment for half-price ever again. Keep trading your WBL over and over and over again without diminishing returns. I mean, damn.

    Diplomatic Ties: The original nation you possess benefits from is your nation of origin mentioned in noble heritage, though you're right that I didn't bother saying where that is as it really all depends on the world that the DM creates. Hell, I allowed nobles to ally themselves with organizations just to cover campaigns nearly or entirely contained within very small settings.

    Dat Capstone: Keep in mind that multiplication is weird in D&D. Get the full benefit and take legendary commander and that's only x11 for your 1st-level followers, not x20.
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    katarl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Okay, I guess that makes sense. I guess that I was confused as I was going for nerfed bard more than paladin/ranger, the metamagic system was strictly weaker than it was for the bard, and I've never heard even the normal bard called "trolololoverpowered".
    This is my first time hearing that phrase too.

    Noble Heritage: As mentioned above, it can now grant you medium armor instead of heavy armor.
    Indeed, I've always thought nobles would consider plate mail a bit too uncouth to wander around the landscape in. Chainmail maybe, but not plate.

    While it's true that this is stronger than a martial's aura, I personally don't think twice about stepping on the (un-fixed) marshal as it was a pretty terrible class (except for maybe a dip). I'm open to arguments for the contrary, however.
    I believe that the concealment chance granted like that is stronger than several epic feats chained together, which should give you an idea of why I think it's overpowered.

    If that weren't enough, read the second sentence. You can pour all of your gold into the feat to effectively make all of your wealth fully modular forever. Never sell equipment for half-price ever again. Keep trading your WBL over and over and over again without diminishing returns. I mean, damn.
    You can do the same for the whole party with one feat. I suspect that more people don't take it only because it's so obscure and not on the SRD. That said, Mercantile Background from 3.5 is better.

    EDIT- there is actually a SECOND feat that does this in pathfinder, and is called Black Marketeer. I'm taking both.

    Dat Capstone: Keep in mind that multiplication is weird in D&D. Get the full benefit and take legendary commander and that's only x11 for your 1st-level followers, not x20.
    Curses.
    Last edited by katarl; 2013-03-31 at 01:14 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: The Noble Base Class (3.5, Peach)

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    At all of your suggestions, I have included free proficiency with a martial weapon and downgraded basic armor proficiencies to light (upgradable to medium through noble lineage).
    Actually, I think this is a bad change. The noble is not (necessarily) a king, and many nobles would probably only have the most basic of combat proficiencies, unless they had a martial history, but you have those nobles covered already. If you gave them a martial weapon and left the armor proficiency at medium, it would be one thing, but you even reduced that proficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    As far as knowledge skills, I considered giving all of them but thought it might be too much, though they're in now.
    Again, I don't like this change. While nobles do have access to all of the information needed to learn about any knowledge skill, most nobles wouldn't bother. They all have the ability to learn about ANY skill, really, so just because they can learn knowledge skills doesn't mean it should come easily. Historically, noble education was VERY specific, leaving out what most would consider even basic education. That said, there are exceptions, but again, you already have a class feature for those exceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Disguise is in there for the quintessential noble trying to blend in with commoners or stay low routine (keep in mind that the stats are for an "adventuring noble" rather than a basic everyday noble ).
    Also, masquerade balls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Profession is there because it's basically everywhere, though I guess this would be the one place where it might be dropped if you think it should be.
    While most might consider this out of place, it may not be. This is an adventuring noble, closer to the common man than most, giving him cause to take certain professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    The two feats at a time thing came from a general worry that giving out one feat at a time wouldn't seem like nearly enough. Now, however, I seem to remember that wizards get a single feat at 20th level so I've reduced all of the feat progressions down (the canny heritage still gets two at a time but it's restricted to stuff like skill focus so I don't feel too bad).
    I feel like you should give the same number of feats you were before, just distributed a little differently. That might just be me, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    For canny heritage, I can't think of anything the prerequisites would break either. If someone brings up a potential avenue for broken-ness, however, action will be taken. As for dilettante training... 3.5 REALLY seems to hate its own skill system. There are no sub-forms of feats dealing with skills as there is for combat or spells and the closest things we get, as pointed out, appear in a splatbook late in the system's life. With that said, I wouldn't feel like the ability was complete without them and I don't really know what to replace them with. I don't quite agree with the statement of there not being enough of them if only because you are only granted 3 of them (meaning half of them if you choose to go for only social ones). If that isn't enough, there is always homebrew. But, yeah, if someone has a good idea for a skill trick equivalent that wouldn't require me to create and post up a new subsystem, feel free to suggest it.
    Flat bonuses? Not as special, but its something. Also, not sure if you did, but you might want to put that link with the skill tricks by the ability that gives them.
    Last edited by Omnicrat; 2013-03-31 at 11:35 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •