The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH] [WIP]

    Changelog:
    11SEP13
    - Added "Glancing Away" to class features.
    - Added a "Shieldmaiden Feats" section with two feats: "Towering Thrust" and "Improved Towering Thrust."
    - Changed "Halt!" to make it more useful in combat, keeping its overall increased effectiveness in comparison to "Stand Still."
    - Changed "I've Got You Covered!" so that the embedded "Bull Rush" mechanic remains but is not guaranteed.

    12SEP13
    - Moved "Damage Reduction" from a level 5 class feature to a level 1 class feature to accommodate for the new "Shout."
    - Added "Stubborn Resolve" to the "Shouts" list.
    - Added "Menacing Bellow" to the "Shouts" list.
    - Created a "Shield Combat" pathing choice to choose between "Two-Handed Shield Fighting" and "Board and Sword" styles.
    - Added "Board and Board" to the "Shieldmaiden Feats" section.
    - Added "Mother's Touch" to class features.
    - Added "Compelling Reasoning" to class features.

    13SEP13
    - Added "Bluff" the class skill list.
    - Added "Superior Defense" to class features, enabling a choice among four unique abilities: Armored Indifference, Lightened Load, Flighted Deflection, and Spell Block.
    - Added "Combat Expertise" to class features.
    - Added "Indomitable Self" to class features.
    - Added "Able-Bodied" to class features.

    25SEP13
    - Deleted majority of the change log to reduce clutter.
    - Deleted the cooldown aspect of "Shouts."
    - Changed "Triumphant Blow" table to Sickened or Nauseated because they don't stack.
    - Split "Able-Bodied" into 3 tiers (I, II, and III) in order to offer more utility at later levels.
    - Changed "Compelling Reasoning" to use the full Cha modifier instead of just half.
    - Changed the description of "Iron Maiden" to better convey what it does.
    - Changed the "Abilities" area to no longer include Str as a necessary attribute for the class.




    Shieldmaiden


    Spoiler
    Show

    The Shieldmaiden by Christian Hoejgaard: see more of his work here.



    Everybody knows the best offense is a defiant defense.
    -Persephone Lothblok, renowned shieldmaiden

    The shieldmaiden is the protective mother of the battlefield. She'll do whatever she can to keep her companions safe, even if it means taking the blows upon herself in order to do so. Her motherly instinct also drives her to protect the innocent and the weak who are unable to properly defend themselves.

    Adventures: The main adventuring motivation for a shieldmaiden is to go along with her companions (usually friends and/or family beforehand) in order to keep them safe in their travels. She might also be hired as a fearless bodyguard who regards the lives of her clients above her own.

    Characteristics: A shieldmaiden's purpose is to draw aggro in a fight while bolstering the attacks and defenses of her party as well as degrading an enemy's ability to fight.

    Alignment: Usually good for the fact that her main purpose is to protect people. However, evil-aligned shieldmaidens are capable of existing, willing ONLY to protect those she chooses.

    Religion: Any gods or goddesses of protection are a good suit for a shieldmaiden. Moradin, Bahamut, Syreth, and Koriel are all examples.

    Background: A shieldmaiden is only open to females who are of a brazen composition. They are a stalwart bunch who usually are in favor of doing what is for the good of the party. They are excellent leaders both on and off the battlefield. Their motherly aspect gives them an advantage in imparting their words of wisdom in many delicate situations, but their fierce composure makes them a force to be reckoned with in the face of danger.

    Races: Any.

    Other Classes: A shieldmaiden will typically butt heads with those who are not concerned with the good of the group, such as rogues or other classes who, many times, will adventure for the good of themselves above all. Conversely, they get along particularly well with any class whose intent is also to protect and serve, such as the paladin or a healer class.

    Role: As a protector of her party, the shieldmaiden looks to control the battlefield to the best of her ability through shouts of inspiration to her comrades while tossing taunts to her enemies in order to draw their attention to her.

    Adaptation: There is little a DM would need to do in order to fit a shieldmaiden into their world. However unique the existence of the world may be, the protect-and-serve mentality of a shieldmaiden will not likely be altered.

    GAME RULE INFORMATION
    Shieldmaiden's have the following game statistics.
    Abilities: The most important abilities of a shieldmaiden are Con and Cha, though not necessarily in that order. Constitution helps your maiden be a bit "beefier" in combat, allowing her to sustain more damage. Charisma enables a maiden to utilize some of her shouts more effectively.
    Alignment: Any, though usually some form of good.
    Hit Die: d12
    Starting Age: Typically, a shieldmaiden is old enough to be a mother at whatever age that may be within her race. Although, it is possible for a maiden younger than that to develop her mother-like complex earlier.
    Starting Gold: As fighter.

    Class Skills
    The Shieldmaiden's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
    Balance(Dex), Bluff(Cha), Climb(Str), Craft(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Gather Information(Cha), Heal(Wis), Intimidate(Cha), Jump(Str), Listen(Wis), Perform(Cha), Profession(Wis), Ride(Dex), Sense Motive(Wis), Spot(Wis), and Swim(Str).

    Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Shieldmaiden
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Shouts

    1st| +1|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Shield Combat, Improved Shield Bash, Weaponized Protection, Damage Reduction 1/-|
    2

    2nd| +2|
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Mother's Touch, Shield Mastery(Weapon Focus), I've Got You Covered!(2)|
    3

    3rd| +3|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Glancing Away, Combat Expertise, Triumphant Blow(1/day; +3d8)|
    3

    4th| +4|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Shield Wall, Mettle|
    4

    5th| +5|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Able-Bodied I, Damage Reduction 2/-, I've Got You Covered!(3)|
    5

    6th| +6/+1|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Halt!, Shield Mastery(Weapon Specialization)|
    5

    7th| +7/+2|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Compelling Reasoning, Indomitable Self, Triumphant Blow(2/day)|
    6

    8th| +8/+3|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Baleful Bash, I've Got You Covered!(4)|
    7

    9th| +9/+4|
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Able-Bodied II, Damage Reduction 3/-|
    7

    10th| +10/+5|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Superior Defense, Shield Mastery(Greater Weapon Focus)|
    8

    11th| +11/+6/+1|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Triumphant Blow(+5d8), I've Got You Covered!(5)|
    9

    12th| +12/+7/+2|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Vigorous Retribution|
    9

    13th| +13/+8/+3|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Counter Shield, Able-Bodied III, Damage Reduction 4/-|
    10

    14th| +14/+9/+4|
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Shield Mastery(Greater Weapon Specialization), I've Got You Covered!(6)|
    11

    15th| +15/+10/+5|
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Superior Defense, Triumphant Blow(3/day)|
    11

    16th| +16/+11/+6/+1|
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Improved Baleful Bash|
    12

    17th| +17/+12/+7/+2|
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Damage Reduction 5/-, I've Got You Covered!(7)|
    13

    18th| +18/+13/+8/+3|
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Shield Mastery(Shield Warrior)|
    13

    19th| +19/+14/+9/+4|
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Triumphant Blow(+7d8)|
    14

    20th| +20/+15/+10/+5|
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Iron Maiden, Superior Defense, I've Got You Covered!(8)|
    15
    [/table]

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the Shieldmaiden.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
    Shieldmaidens are proficient with all simple weapons.
    Shieldmaidens are proficient with all armor (heavy, medium, or light) as well as shields (as a weapon and armor), including tower shields.
    Shieldmaidens are proficient in the use of shield spikes, as well.

    Shield Combat (Ex):
    Shieldmaidens are extremely adept at using shields in combat, but each shieldmaiden has their own style of shield-wielding that sets them apart from other shieldmaidens.

    At 1st level, a shieldmaiden chooses whether she wants to specialize in Two-Handed Shield Fighting or Board and Sword.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Two-Handed Shield Fighting (Ex):
    In lieu of a standard weapon to accompany her shield, a shieldmaiden may choose to wield her shield with both hands, gaining added damage in doing so.

    Damage in the table is based on a medium creature. Other effects, such as damage type and critical ranges remain the same. All other effects that can be applied to standard two-handed weapons are applicable (1.5 STR on Attack, Power Attack, etc.).

    A shieldmaiden may use two hands to attack with a shield without having to take Two-Handed Shield Fighting, but they do not get the bonus of the added damage dice.

    {table=head]Shield Type|Dmg|Reg
    Light Shield|1d4|1d3
    Light Shield, Spiked|1d6|1d4
    Heavy Shield|1d8|1d4
    Heavy Shield, Spiked|1d10|1d6
    Tower Shield|1d12|1d8*
    [/table]
    *Unique to Shieldmaiden

    Board and Sword (Ex):
    Much like the traditional defense-oriented combatant, a shieldmaiden may use a sword and shield. However, by specializing in Board and Sword, she is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat given that she is using a shield in one hand. Regular two-weapon fighting rules, otherwise, apply.

    A shieldmaiden may use Board and Sword to qualify for any feats, PrC's, etc. that require Two-Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite so long as a shield remains one of her weapons.

    A shieldmaiden may use sword and board techniques without specializing in Board and Sword, but she suffers the standard penalties associated with such for using two weapons without the feat.


    Improved Shield Bash: (as feat)
    At 1st level, a shieldmaiden does not lose the AC bonus her shield gives her when making an attack her with shield.

    Weaponized Protection (Ex):
    At 1st level, because a Shieldmaiden is prone to use her shield as a weapon, penalties associated with shield-wielding are reduced by half, rounded down (to the nearest 5% in the case of arcane failure). Additionally, no max Dex penalty is incurred while wielding a tower shield.

    A shieldmaiden has the added benefit of being able to shield bash with tower shields. They also retain the AC bonus a tower shield gives while using the cover function (though they still give up any attacks in doing so).

    Damage Reduction (Ex):
    Starting at 1st level, a shieldmaiden gains damage reduction 1/-, reducing the amount of damage she takes per attack by 1 point. Every 4 levels, her damage reduction increases by 1.

    Shouts:
    A shieldmaiden uses shouts in order to sway the tide of battle in her favor. Some shouts are meant to inspire courage in the hearts of her allies, buffing their attacks. Other shouts are used to either taunt or strike fear into the hearts of her enemies.

    -A shieldmaiden has access to all of her shouts.
    -Activating a shout is a swift action.
    -The effects of multiple shouts can stack, though regular stacking rules apply (can't have two +3 morale bonuses to AC to make +6, etc.)
    -Shouts are not auras. They can only effect allies or enemies within their range at the time the shout was used.
    -A shieldmaiden can shout a number of times per encounter equal to the number on the table, based on her class level.
    -A shieldmaiden gains a number of bonus shouts per encounter equal to 1/2 her Charisma modifier.

    Shouts
    Spoiler
    Show

    Strengthened Purpose (Ex):
    You feel the excitement for battle racing through you, granting you increased strength and accuracy.
    • Shieldmaiden temporarily gains +2 Attack and Damage rolls
    • All allies within 30ft at the time of the shout gain a +1 morale bonus to Attack rolls
    • Duration: 3 rounds
    • Scaling: For every 5 Shieldmaiden class levels, the bonus modifiers to Attack and Damage rolls increase by +2 for the shieldmaiden and +1 for allies.



    Challenger's Roar (Ex):
    The sight of the enemy sickens you, but there is one in particular you cannot stand...it must die!
    • Shieldmaiden singles out a target up to 50 feet away, gaining a +4 morale bonus to AC against that target until the end of the encounter. Additionally, the chosen target must make a Will save of DC [13 + 1/2 Shieldmaiden HD + Cha mod] or be forced to attempt an attack against the shieldmaiden on its next turn by any means necessary. If it is able, it must charge.
    • Shieldmaiden gains a +2 morale bonus AC to all other enemies within 30 feet at the time of the shout for two rounds.
    • Allies within 30 feet at the time of the shout receive a +2 morale bonus to AC until the Shieldmaiden's next turn.
    • Scaling: For every 5 Shieldmaiden class levels, bonus modifiers to AC increase by +2 against the shieldmaiden's target and +1 for the remaining effects.



    Convalescent Fervor (Ex):
    You feel the pain of your allies, and you wish to carry their burden.
    • Upon activation, the shieldmaiden is granted 1d8 temporary hit points.
    • Every time an enemy successfully lands a blow against her, she let's loose a battle cry, healing all allies within 30 feet for 1d2+1 hit points.
    • If allies are within 15 feet of the shieldmaiden, they are healed for 2d2+2 hit points instead.
    • The shieldmaiden does not benefit from the healing effects of her shout.
    • Duration: 3 rounds
    • Scaling: For every 5 Shieldmaiden class levels, allies within 30 feet heal for an additional die and another +1 modifier. Allies within 15 feet heal for an additional two dice and another +2 modifier.


    Stubborn Resolve (Ex):
    You strengthen your purpose, hardening yourself against your enemies.
    • The shieldmaiden doubles her Damage Reduction upon activation.
    • Allies within 30 feet are granted her base Damage Reduction amount.
    • Duration: 3 rounds


    Menacing Bellow (Ex):
    A shieldmaiden and her allies are not a force to be reckoned with...and her enemies know it. Despite their ill intentions, they find themselves at odds with their actions.
    • Enemies within 30 feet of the shieldmaiden receive a -3 to hit against her allies but only a -1 to hit against the shieldmaiden.
    • Duration: 3 rounds
    • Scaling: For every 5 Shieldmaiden class levels, the penalty to hit against her allies is reduced by another -3 modifier. The penalty to hit the Shieldmaiden is reduced by -2.



    Mother's Touch (Ex):
    The shieldmaiden's protective measures to ensure her party's safety and well-being extends both on and off the battlefield to ensure everyone is in tip top shape to fight another day.

    At 2nd level, a shieldmaiden is able to patch any wounds her party received in combat. Once every hour outside of combat, a shieldmaiden may make a DC 15 heal check to heal party members for a number of hit points equal to their class level + her Cha modifier.

    Additionally, the shieldmaiden can substitute her Cha modifier for her Wis modifier when making such checks.

    Shield Mastery:
    A shieldmaiden never stops in her quest to perfect her methods of protective measures.

    At level 2, she gains Weapon Focus (Shields): +1 to all attack rolls with a shield.
    At level 6, she gains Weapon Specialization (Shields): +2 to all damage rolls with a shield.
    At level 10, she gains Greater Weapon Focus (Shields): +1 to all attack rolls with a shield.
    At level 14, she gains Greater Weapon Specialization (Shields): +2 to all damage rolls with a shield.
    At level 18, she gains Shield Warrior: +2 to all attack and damage rolls with a shield.

    I've Got You Covered! (Ex):
    At 2nd level, as an immediate action, a shieldmaiden may interpose herself between an ally (within 10 feet) and an attack, thereby taking the strike (and damage, if it hits) herself.

    After absorbing the attack, a shieldmaiden may make an opposed Strength check. If successful, her enemy is moved back 5 feet. If not, her ally is moved instead. No movement taken by any party in correlation to this ability count against their Move actions in a round.

    A shieldmaiden is able to use this ability twice per encounter with an additional use every three levels.

    Glancing Away (Ex):
    At 3rd level, a shieldmaiden may apply the AC of her shield to her deflection bonus to AC instead of her shield bonus to AC in order to better protect her from touch attacks.

    Combat Expertise (Ex):
    At 3rd level, a shieldmaiden is granted Combat Expertise as the feat even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

    Triumphant Blow (Ex, Sp):
    In dealing a fatal blow, the shieldmaiden beheads the fallen creature, lifting her trophy for the entire battlefield to see.

    Starting at 3rd level, upon a successful attack roll, a shieldmaiden may choose to add extra damage to her attack. If the blow kills her enemy, she severs its head, raising it high above her head as she unleashes a blood-curdling battle cry for all enemies within a range of 50 feet to see. Affected enemies must make a Will save to avoid suffering from sickness or nauseation, as noted in the table. The number of times you can use this ability per day, as well as the damage it does, scales as you level as noted in the class table.

    {table=head]Condition Effect|DC
    Sickened|DC 10 + Slain Enemy's HD + Cha mod
    Nauseated|DC 6 + Slain Enemy's HD + Cha mod
    [/table]

    Shield Wall (Ex):
    At 4th level, a shieldmaiden becomes able to more effectively work together with other shieldmaidens and shield-wielding allies.

    For every ally adjacent to her who wields a shield, a shieldmaiden gains a +2 bonus to AC. Additionally, she imparts a +2 bonus to those allies as well. This bonus is untyped and stacks with any other bonuses to AC.

    Mettle (Ex):
    At 4th level, a shieldmaiden can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If she makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), she instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping shieldmaiden does not gain the benefit of mettle.

    Able-Bodied (Ex):
    A shieldmaiden may not be the strongest warrior or a dextrous rogue, but where she lacks in strength and agility, she makes up for it through superior control over her body.

    I
    At 5th level, a shieldmaiden may use her Con modifier when determining skill checks in place of Str- and Dex-based skills, using weight-shifting techniques and momentum to complete tasks that usually require more brute force or prowess.

    II
    At 9th level, a shieldmaiden may use her Con modifier instead of her Str modifier when determining attack rolls as well as class abilities that require a Str modifier.

    III
    At 13th level, a shieldmaiden may use her Con modifier instead of her Str modifier when determining damage rolls.

    Halt! (Ex):
    At 6th level, a shieldmaiden has the capability to keep foes whom she threatens from fleeing from her, reaching out and keeping them in place.

    Whenever a foe attempts to leave or pass through a square a shieldmaiden threatens, a shieldmaiden can use an attack of opportunity to attempt to keep her enemy in place. She may make a touch attack to do so if she has a free hand or is able to make one available (two-handed shield wielding).

    In order to avoid the attack, the enemy must succeed a Reflex save of DC [13 + 1/2 Shieldmaiden class level + Str mod] or be forced to Stand Still, as the feat. If the enemy fails the save by 5 or more, she throws them to the ground as if they have been tripped.

    This ability may be used as a prerequisite for any feat that requires Stand Still. If a shieldmaiden already posseses Stand Still as a feat, the DC for this ability is raised by +2, and she may use either Halt! or Stand Still's DC to determine an enemy's Reflex save (though she must decide which beforehand).

    Compelling Reasoning (Ex):
    As the strong-willed, motherly woman a shieldmaiden is, she able to reinforce the ideas of her party members to others, making them reconsider any hasty decisions they may have made.

    At 7th level, a number of times per day equal to her Cha modifier, a shieldmaiden may add her Cha modifier to an ally's roll in relation to a Cha-based skill check (Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform, Use Magic Device).

    Indomitable Self (Ex):
    A shieldmaiden's thick hide serves her well in battle.

    At 7th level, a shieldmaiden may substitute her Con modifier for her Dex modifier when determining AC. This bonus is not hindered by any Max Dex penalties her armor incurs. Other rules when determining Dexterity-based armor (helplessness, etc.) still apply.

    Baleful Bash (Ex):
    At 8th level, a shieldmaiden has the ability to stun her enemies using her shield. She must declare the attack before rolling. If she hits, her target must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 Shieldmaiden levels + Cha mod) or become stunned for 1 round.

    A shieldmaiden may perform this ability twice per encounter.

    Superior Defense (Ex):
    With her defensive prowess in battle, a slew of new abilities become available to her.

    At 10th level and every 5 levels after, a shieldmaiden has the ability to further perfect her defensive prowess in battle, choosing one of the following abilities (abilities may not be chosen again at later levels):

    Armored Indifference: A shieldmaiden gains bonus Damage Reduction based on the type of armor she wears. Light armor or lower gains DR 1/-. Medium armor gains DR 3/-. Heavy Armor gains DR 5/-. This DR stacks with her class DR for the purpose of total DR and the Stubborn Resolve shout.

    Lightened Load: A shieldmaiden has become used to bearing the weight of her armor, and she no longer takes any movement penalties associated with it. Additionally, any armor check penalties are reduced by 2 to be armor and shields, respectively (minimum 0).
    Furthermore, wearers of light or no armor gain a +15-foot competence bonus to move speed.
    Wearers of medium armor gain a +10-foot competence bonus to move speed.
    Wearers of heavy armor gain a +5-foot competence bonus to move speed.

    Flighted Deflection: A shieldmaiden gains the ability to block ranged attacks by taking her shield bonus to AC (which has been deferred to her deflection bonus by this point) and multiplying it by 5. The result is the percentage miss chance ranged attacks have against her.

    Spell Block: A shieldmaiden gains the ability to block spells. She does so by making an attack roll against the spell in order to block it. The DC for this roll is equal to [15 + spell's CL]. Targeted spells blocked in this manner fizzle against her shield, and nothing happens. Area spells function as normal, but the shieldmaiden and anyone in a 20ft cone behind her (based on the point of origin of the spell) are not effected.
    With terrain-alterning spells like Grease, Black Tentacles, etc., all squares, except the ones counting toward the shieldmaiden's successful block, are effected as usual.

    Vigorous Retribution (Ex):
    By 12th level, a shieldmaiden and her allies have formed a special bond. When one sees the other in a great deal of pain, they rally for the cause.

    Upon being dropped to half health or lower, a shieldmaiden's allies are granted a +1 to their Attack and Damage rolls for every 10HP under half health she is (minimum 1).

    Additionally, if one of the shieldmaiden's allies are suffering from similar conditions, she too benefits from bonuses to Attack and Damage rolls. If multiple allies are under half HP, she only applies the bonuses of the one that benefits her most.

    Counter Shield (Ex):
    At 13th level, a shieldmaiden gains the ability to proactively keep her opponents from attacking herself and her allies.

    As an immediate action, she may bash her opponent with her shield at a -2 penalty to attack, rendering their attack as an automatic miss as per the Devoted Spirit's Counter Shield.

    A shieldmaiden may use this ability once every 1d4 rounds.

    Improved Baleful Bash (Ex, Su):
    At 16th level, a shieldmaiden is able to use her Baleful Bash ability a number of times per encounter equal to 2 + Cha mod.

    Additionally, upon confirming a critical hit with a shield, a shieldmaiden automatically stuns her target without spending one of her daily charges. If she declared she was using a Baleful Bash charge before the attack, it doesn't count against her encounter limit.

    Iron Maiden (Ex):
    By 20th level, a shieldmaiden's ability has progressed enough in order for her to become a higher form of protection. With 24 hours of straight prayer and ceremony to her diety (or her cause, in the case of no diety) a shieldmaiden is blessed with supernatural powers to protect.

    In becoming an Iron Maiden, she gains a bonus to her natural armor equal to 5 + 1/2 Con mod. In addition, she may spend part of this bonus to purchase up to two properties that can be applied to shields or armor as long as it has a numeral price modifier (+1, +2, etc.), though she may not exceed a +5 bonus.

    She is able to impart these bonuses on any shield or armor she is currently using even if it would not usually qualify for such (lack of masterwork or magical items). The bonus may only be applied to either the shield or the armor she is using. A bonus only affects items that a shieldmaiden is currently using. If she takes off her armor, it loses the bonus property until it (or another set of armor) is put on again.

    Once she purchases her bonuses, the properties become permanent and cannot be changed except through the use of wish.

    Shieldmaiden Feats:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Board and Board
    Prequisites: Shieldmaiden level 1, Board and Sword specialization
    Benefit: While using two shields as her weapons, a shieldmaiden may apply the AC bonuses of both shields to her AC.
    Normal: Shield bonuses to AC do not stack.
    Special: This bonus also applies to Glancing Away at level 3.

    Towering Thrust
    Prerequisites: Shieldmaiden level 5
    Benefit: While wielding a tower shield, a shieldmaiden may sacrifice its AC bonus until the beginning of her next turn in order to gain reach with it. This may be used in conjunction with attack as well as any applicable class features.
    Normal: Tower shields do not grant reach.

    Improved Towering Thrust
    Prerequisites: Shieldmaiden level 10
    Benefit: As Towering Thrust, except the shieldmaiden no longer loses the bonus to AC the tower shield grants in order to gain the benefit of reach.
    Last edited by InstinctsKill; 2013-09-25 at 12:25 AM. Reason: Class Changes

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    I think the shouts have too many effects involved. I would do one or two effects for each shout, but let them stack.
    To stop too many bonuses from stacking on each other you can add this phrase: "Shouts are subject to the same stacking rules as spells." And/or you could even limit shouts to a 1d4 + 1 round recharge.
    And why are they supernatural in nature? I don't see anything overtly magical in them.

    And why isn't she proficient with tower shields? It seems kind of odd for a shield centric character to not have proficiency in.

    Shield Mastery works, but is kind of boring. Options are better than some flat bonuses. After all I can take the feats normally. Improved Shield Bash combined with weapon focus for a starting ability is a good idea though.
    Here's some ideas for shield based maneuvers: gaining concealment with shields, blocking an attack with an attack roll, interposing herself into an attack against an adjacent ally, or a phalanx maneuver that gains bonuses with additional Shieldmaidens

    Triumphant Blow is way too specific a circumstance. Not only that, but most BBEGs will be immune to fear anyway.
    Instead of the extra damage just let her perform a coup de grace, without attacks of opportunity, and tag on the head ripping fear effect.

    You might consider doing a monk-like progression to damage with the two-handed shield fighting ability. Of course that might be overkill here...

    And raise the skill points to 4. This isn't D20 modern. Skill points are always even numbers. It could use more skills, less you wish to fall into the same problems as the fighter.
    Try this line of thought when applying skills to a class. What does it need to perform it's job, what roles might it fill other than what it is (sheildmaiden in this case), and, sometimes, rule of cool.

    I would keep the full BaB until you have the rest of the class fleshed out. If you can't forsee how good the class abilities will be (until you have them all of them in combination with each other), I suggest starting with the core D&D class chassis that matches the closest.

    And onto nitpicking with the formatting (as to make it easier to follow and critique):
    • If you don't list the level of the ability within it's description you should list it beside the ability.
    • I would indent or spoiler the shouts. Italics don't make them pop enough.
    • It might be quicker to note, under shouts, "all shouts are [insert type] abilities, unless noted otherwise," than to tag them all (Su).
    • Speaking of which, use the enter key. The mechanics on shouts is a massive block of text.


    [Edit]:

    The permanent bonus thing is a pretty massive wall of text itself. This would be fine : "The bonus lasts until the creature is either dead or has, in some way, managed to escape the fight" since the note on not regaining it is inferred.

    If you don't want a bonus to stack then you should just list them under spell stacking rules, as I noted earlier, and give them a bonus type that doesn't stack. Bonuses to AC never stack unless they are from a different same source or they are untyped.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2013-05-06 at 11:57 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Thank you. That was extremely helpful moving forward. Unfortunately, I will not be able to work on this class much for the next couple weeks due to work-related causes, but rest-assured that I will be formulating ways to improve the Shieldmaiden while I am away.

    I would also like to point out that I didn't label anything as Supernatural (Su). The shouts have all fallen under Spell-like (Sp). I'll definitely work to clarify the effects of different shouts better and in less words so they are easier to follow. The skill point increase will be put into effect, and it's also been suggested that I use a d12 for her HD, so that's another change that is likely to be seen.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Alright, so I posted the beginnings of this class back in May. After leaving and not being able to work on it, I finally found the time, motivation, and creative juices (at least, I hope) to come back and finish her up. Again, any thoughts, critiques, etc. are welcomed and encouraged!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    I uh, I like the focus on shields. But I can't take two-handed shield fighting seriously. I think weaponization of shields could make for some interesting class features, but making shields into primary weapons goes too far, and misses the flavor you should be shooting for. Aim for things more like Shield Counter (Tome of Battle, page 60), and stuff more like Baleful Bash.

    Speaking of Baleful Bash... randomized number of uses per day? What? When do you roll for it? Each day? When you get the feature? What is the purpose that randomization attempts to serve? Wouldn't it be better to just give a standardized number of uses per day? (Or even make it a use or two per encounter instead? But that's just my dislike of daily uses speaking).

    Also, I would strongly encourage you to add in some more defensive abilities. It's good that you have offensive stuff- you can't work on defense alone- but more stuff like "I've Got You Covered" would be great, and really work nicely with the class flavor you're going for. I would suggest some kind of battlefield control, like tripping or stand still. A shield wall ability that makes you an actual wall would be very useful defensively.

    Maybe you can give some limited cover/improved cover type ability that could be activated against area attacks? That would be pretty cool for a shield focused character, and also pretty useful. I've Got You Covered doesn't actually protect against dragonfire or lightning bolts, after all, and the image of blasts of energy splitting off of a shield is a nifty one.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-09-05 at 06:55 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH] [WIP]

    Well that's the nice thing about two-handed shield wielding: it's available to you, but it's not necessary in order to properly play the class. Unless I missed something on my re-read through the class, if you decide to go the standard sword-and-board route, it's not going to effect the other class features. While you'll be missing out on that particular feature, if you are ever unfortunate to have your sword disarmed or sundered, you still have this to fall back on. I could see the challenge of two-weapon fighting in this case though, so I'll work that in here as well.

    You know, I was just looking at that yesterday before I bumped this back up to the top of the forum boards. It struck me as odd that I would do that, so that's going to change. Not sure what I was thinking there at the time (it's not like it has any conceivable reason to be random), but it's going to change. I'm thinking twice an encounter sounds like it'll be perfect in that respect.

    I like what I could do with the possibilities of Stand Still (and Counter Shield, going back up top for a second). I'll have to do some more digging to find some more stuff like this too, methinks. If I were to make Shield Wall able to provide cover for allies positioned behind it, would that be too situational? I think that's pretty much what you're getting at here though.

    Yep. I've been thinking of ideas how I could accomplish this in a creative manner too. We'll see what I can come up with

    Thank you for the in-depth look and critique, by the way. It's been quite helpful!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bekeleven's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    I'm currently working on a tanky class, and I love the visual of someone braining an enemy with a two-handed shield. I gave it a quick read, here's my thoughts:

    1. Have you considered just granting stand still as a bonus feat, instead of giving a limited-use, pseudo-ability based around it? This would go well with granting combat reflexes as a bonus feat. Note that "stand still", when combined with increased reach (see below), is effective damage mitigation to shut down enemy chargers.
    2. As long as we're giving mechanical bonuses in the form of bonus feats - and there's nothing wrong with that - combat expertise is good for a tank.
    3. The core of a tanking class is, well, the tanking: Taking hits, and damage mitigation. It looks like the most potent "make people hit me" before level 13 only work against a single enemy, and every 1D4+1 rounds to boot. I feel like if I built this class, I'd have to dip crusader to grab Iron Guard's Glare (foes you threaten have -4 to hit against allies). Yes, there's also "I've got you covered", which uses magical diceless instantaneous bullrush mechanics, but I think any sane GM would ban it.
    4. The other part of tanking is damage mitigation, both on yourself, and allies. The damage mitigation she gets for herself consist of DR and 1D8 temporary HP that last 3 rounds, doesn't stack with itself, and is usable every 1D4+1 rounds. Again, I'm liking crusader here.
    5. Ally damage mitigation appears to consist of taking hits (to her fragile chassis), and healing about 5 damage to adjacent allies when she gets hit. Unless fighting swarm enemies (i.e. kobolds as opposed to owlbears), this is pretty weak.
    6. If you want to go dark souls, you could make mechanical support - either in addition, or instead of, having the playing choose a path - for dual shield wielding. If sticking with two-handed, at least make an explicit note that this adds 1.5STR mod and can be power attacked like a two-handed weapon, because that's ambiguous right now.
    7. Here and there I see fluff that's not borne out by the rules, and the best example is tower shields. As-is, they're entirely unusable. I would grant the following abilities as the shieldmaiden levels: Ability to bash with tower shields; ability to use them like like shields and still grant their cover bonuses. If you need damage values, make them higher than heavy shield. Perhaps also give them the ability to increase reach with the tower shield for an attack or two, but it negates some benefit (this would work great with stand still). Then, at higher levels, just grant them the reach bonus with no drawback.
    8. The other fluff-to-crunch issue I see is minor. You suggest that shieldmaidens should be dextrous, but their abilities suggest full-plate to me.
    9. You don't correctly list the bonuses granted by bonus feat, unless greater weapon focus gives bonuses on damage rolls now. Copyediting error.
    10. Final note: I would grant them the ability to apply shield bonuses as deflection, because it's a really meaningful oversight in the original game balance that sword and board (or in this case, board and board) can't defend against touch attacks. There's a spell in the spell compendium that does it, I think, if you need inspiration.


    I'd call the class in its current state high tier 5. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you were aiming for higher.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Well I'm glad you're enjoying that picture lol. I've taken your comments and suggestions into consideration, and I've implented some changes, fixes, and I've got a couple ideas to move forward. In order here:

    1. I have considered simply granting Stand Still as the feat, but I feel like I've granted quite a few feats like that already, and I kinda wanted to put a creative spin on things, come up with something new, and make it more unique. With that being said, I have made a change so that it is more usable in combat in relation to usage frequency equal the feat. If the player wishes to take Stand Still at an earlier level on their own, I've made sure that it won't completley lose effectiveness, adding more choices to Halt!
    2. Again, I'm not completely sure I want to be as bland as simply handing out feats, though Combat Expertise may be essential. I'll have to consider this one a bit more.
    3. Because damage mitigation comes up again in the next two sections, I'm going to focus on I've Got You Covered! here. The basic mechanics have been kept in place. I feel that the bull rush feature is appropriate for a bit more battlefield control, but I have added an opposed Strength check in order to move an enemy (though, I didn't specify that regular size rules apply as far as bonuses are concerned; while it should be obvious, I'll probly add that to clarify).
    4. Regarding her damage mitigation, I'll have to keep thinking of different ways to implement this. If there's a way to effectively scale her HP levels, this would be one way to do so. Would something like treating her Con modifier as either 1.5x higher or +2 higher for the purpose of HP work, or would that be too much? I could also grant Toughness, as the feat, every few levels, but again...free feats strikes me as bland.
    5. I have a couple more ideas for shouts that will be easy to implement for damage mitigation. One will function much like Iron Guard Glare in that it will demoralize enemies, making it harder for them to hit both the Shieldmaiden and her allies. This, in conjunction with the shout that increases the AC of herself and allies, should do a better job of making it harder for enemies to land hits. In addition, to increase the effectiveness of the DR, I have a shout in mind that grants the Shieldmaiden's DR to allies while doubling that of her own for a number of rounds.
    6. I've been thinking about the possibility of dual shield wielding and how I would properly include that (it's mostly just a matter of the effectively wording it and making a clear path choice much like a Ranger, I suppose). Thank you for pointing out that oversight regarding two-handed shields though. Fixed.
    7. Based on the role of the class, I guess I just assumed people would know you would be able to bash with tower shields (they did have a damage die on my table), but it is definitely best to make it clear, so thanks for that. As far as incorporating reach with tower shields, that is a great idea! I've added two Shieldmaiden-only feats to make this possible. I didn't want to simply add them to the class because then it almost seems necessary to go this route, and it doesn't add anything to wielding other shields. Instead, if people want to venture down that path, they have the option to do so this way.
    8. Thanks for point this one out. It didn't occur to me that this didn't make sense until you said it. Shieldmaiden is definitely a "full-plate" kinda girl. What I forgot to realize is that, while Dex adds more inherent armor, heavier armors negate this bonus anyways. Consider that fixed.
    9. Oops. Fixed.
    10. You know, I was thinking about something like that too. The fact that you noticed it and figured it was necessary gives me all the more reason to implement it. Done.


    Thanks again for critiquing the class. Anything additional is welcomed. On account of tiering, I'm aiming for about Tier 3. I'd really like to make a class someone wants to play because it suits their playstyle AND is effective in that role.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hanuman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    I uh, I like the focus on shields. But I can't take two-handed shield fighting seriously.


    It's ritualistic, normally you'd have an offhand weapon like a club or a sword as well unless it's original style, in which case it's just shields.

    http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Leona
    http://download.gamezone.com/uploads...in_Artwork.jpg
    Leona is a classic example of a shield-maiden, her flavor also works well as a PrC.

    I do think however that a class based on a 2 handed shield is a bit much, even with the concept of a weaponized shield the user should def. have an offhand.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bekeleven's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    I like the changes!

    As for granting feats, well... martial caracters need tons of boosts to be effective. Especially one doing anything other than greatswords (or dual aptitude kukris but that's another story). So I don't think feats are cheating, even if they are arguably "bland".

    For reference, I recently build a martial base class. You may or may not notice that the class grants 10 fixed feats and 6 fighter feats across its 20 levels, as well as 3 weapon style feats. Already, it's obviously better than the fighter - but even with that, the move speed boosts, and a number of (Ex) abilities the class still only felt higher tier 5 to me. I ended up granting it massive skill boosts, trapfinding, a healing pool, freedom of movement, true seeing, and the ability to bring the dead to life before it felt high tier 4. I'm still not satisfied that the class is tier 3.

    Why? Tier 3 is very powerful and versatile compared to straight martial. Look at the tier: Initiators (Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade from the Tome of Battle), Duskblade (5th level martial caster with armor and utility spells), and PsyWar (6th level Manifester with great power selection), Beguiler and Dread Necromancer (9th level casters with limited lists), Bard (6th level caster with strong utility spells and powerful class features like DFI), Factotum (Can do literally anything forever). Noncombat, combat, melee, ranged, tier 3 solves problems. And they don't get stopped by guy at the gym issues either.

    This class has distinct flavor compared to a fighter, but it can't really solve more problems. I'd advocate granting some form of freedom of movement ability to your class, or immunities to various harmful conditions some other way. I would also recommend giving the class some out of combat abilities - but which ones would fit in with your flavor, is up to you.

    Dear lord, I feel like a pusher. "Statistical bonuses are just the first step. Are you sure you don't want any... spell likes?"

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman View Post
    Leona is a classic example of a shield-maiden, her flavor also works well as a PrC.
    Aye. I am no stranger to Leona! She's easily my favorite support in LoL. It was partly her, partly Vikings (the History Channel TV Series), and partly because not many takes on the Shieldmaiden have been homebrewed that inspired me to take this route.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman View Post
    I do think however that a class based on a 2 handed shield is a bit much, even with the concept of a weaponized shield the user should def. have an offhand.
    I'm working on putting together a path, much like the Ranger, that will allow you to choose between two-handed shield fighting or a dual-wielding approach instead so as to not lose the effectiveness of attacking with shield (it also would open up dual shields too!). I realize that two-handed shield wielding is a bit odd, but it would be necessary by the end, and if that's your flavor, it's available and a viable option.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    I like the changes!
    Phew. Well that's a relief! A step in the right direction then, anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    As for granting feats, well... martial caracters need tons of boosts to be effective. Especially one doing anything other than greatswords (or dual aptitude kukris but that's another story). So I don't think feats are cheating, even if they are arguably "bland".
    Alright. I'll have to give this a some more thought then. With that in mind, I spose it's probably necessary...especially as far as Combat Experise goes. Probly not Combat Reflexes though. As nice as it would be to have that stock, after taking out the rather unnecessary Dex importance, it's probably more situational upon how good a PC rolls their stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    Ooh. Looks interesting. I think I'm gonna have to take a look at this when I have a bit more time

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    Why? Tier 3 is very powerful and versatile compared to straight martial.
    Alright. I think I am a bit confused with the tiering then. I'm taking my reference from Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium. Usually, with the parties I've been playing with, if we're selecting homebrew off of this list, it's typically up in the Tier 3 area. That's mostly why I'm aiming that high: I want something that people are going to want to play and not feel like they are hampered by a lower-tier class.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    This class has distinct flavor compared to a fighter, but it can't really solve more problems. I'd advocate granting some form of freedom of movement ability to your class, or immunities to various harmful conditions some other way. I would also recommend giving the class some out of combat abilities - but which ones would fit in with your flavor, is up to you.
    I was just thinking about this a bit...as far as the immunities go anyways. Now, taking a look at your class, I see that you have separated Will save and Fort save bonuses out between Mettle and Moxie. Is this typical? Because I've seen Mettle use both (that's what I was going for, so I'd like to make sure it's accurate). Going forward, improving one or both would be a likely path.

    I have been trying to think of ways to make her more effective outside of combat. So far, I don't have much, but I'm sure something will hit me soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    Dear lord, I feel like a pusher. "Statistical bonuses are just the first step. Are you sure you don't want any... spell likes?"
    It's quite alright lol. I appreciate the help. Not sure if you were in here early on, but, if you were, you'd know this is my first homebrew attempt, so I'm more than willing to accept any help and insight I can get. Spell likes? You mean spell like abilities?
    Last edited by InstinctsKill; 2013-09-13 at 10:56 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hanuman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emkjVXE_2Do

    I didn't mean that it's odd, I mean that it's too specific to be the main drive for a baseclass, baseclass generally means archetype where as PrC means sub-archetype, pathfinder really drove the whole ACF thing hard and it worked really well. It would work really well as an option, similarly fitted to Dwarven Defender's flavor. Honestly things like providing protection like this class does should be core otherwise (like paladin), you should take a look at Ziegander's class fixes and also his PrC's, there's good flavor there and some that applies to you. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192596

    I prefer nidalee, elise and blitzcrank support

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bekeleven's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InstinctsKill View Post
    Alright. I think I am a bit confused with the tiering then. I'm taking my reference from Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium. Usually, with the parties I've been playing with, if we're selecting homebrew off of this list, it's typically up in the Tier 3 area. That's mostly why I'm aiming that high: I want something that people are going to want to play and not feel like they are hampered by a lower-tier class.
    Unless you want to make some really odd arguments with regards to tome of battle, no mundanes are tier 3. The highest straight mundanes are tier 4, with classes like the rogue.

    Basically, unless you entirely rewrite the Guy at the Gym scenario you're not hitting versatility.



    Quote Originally Posted by InstinctsKill View Post
    I was just thinking about this a bit...as far as the immunities go anyways. Now, taking a look at your class, I see that you have separated Will save and Fort save bonuses out between Mettle and Moxie. Is this typical? Because I've seen Mettle use both (that's what I was going for, so I'd like to make sure it's accurate). Going forward, improving one or both would be a likely path.
    Nah, that's just me being (too) clever. I grant each one piecemeal, then I say "If you have fort already, you can grab will. This, being equivalent to the ability called mettle, is called mettle."

    Quote Originally Posted by InstinctsKill View Post
    I have been trying to think of ways to make her more effective outside of combat. So far, I don't have much, but I'm sure something will hit me soon.

    It's quite alright lol. I appreciate the help. Not sure if you were in here early on, but, if you were, you'd know this is my first homebrew attempt, so I'm more than willing to accept any help and insight I can get. Spell likes? You mean spell like abilities?
    Yeah. If you're not familiar with the Guy at the Gym Fallacy, which I'm sure has a more popular name, it's when people look at a martial/mundane class and say "I'm limiting the abilities of this class because a guy at the gym wouldn't be able to do that." You can find plentiful examples if you head over to the stupid house rules thread.

    The issue with this, of course, is that if you divide classes into 2 categories (magical and mundane), only the underpowered category has a real-life counterpart, so you end up nerfing it even more in pursuit of "realism". Meanwhile the magic users are, in the words of Vaarsuvius, telling the laws of reality "to sit down and shut up."

    I think most tier 3s have at least some way of telling reality to sit down and shut up. Casters are an obvious example. Initiators have supernatural stances, teleportation, and iron heart surge to start. Factotum casts spells and curb stomps the action economy.

    And maybe I'm totally off about this. But I built some other classes that I was very satisfied fell into tier 3, and people seemed to agree. The first one lets you become a war troll, grants fly, burrow, and fast healing at level 2, makes you a master party face, and lets you min-max stats like mad. The second gives infinite out-of-combat healing, the ability to auto-hit and auto-crit attacks, and works off some mixture of binder and barbarian where you contract spirits then use them to "rage". Both are tier 3, but if I gave either one planar binding, gate and genesis I could probably get them bumped up, because planar stuff is one of the largest dividing lines between tier3 and tier2. (other divisions include massive action economy abuse and divinations.)

    Basically what I'm getting at is that from a bottom-up view of the tiers, tier4 is anything you can possibly see doing without magic, tier2 is breaking the game, and tier3 is anything in between.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman View Post
    Nice song lol. Very touching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman View Post
    I didn't mean that it's odd, I mean that it's too specific to be the main drive for a baseclass.
    I see what you're saying here, I think, and I think I fixed the issue, too. I've introduced the choice in paths between two-handed shield fighting or sword and board. Either of them can be used at any given point in time, like usual, but this way whichever one you choose to specialize in will have an added benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman View Post
    You should take a look at Ziegander's class fixes and also his PrC's, there's good flavor there and some that applies to you. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192596
    Haven't gotten to take a good look at all Ziegander has to offer here yet, but even from a cursory glance (and the multitudes of praise he has received), I can tell it's gonna be worth the read. Thanks for the resource!

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    I think most tier 3s have at least some way of telling reality to sit down and shut up.

    Basically what I'm getting at is that from a bottom-up view of the tiers, tier4 is anything you can possibly see doing without magic, tier2 is breaking the game, and tier3 is anything in between.
    This makes a lot more sense. I can't lie, either: when it comes down to magic and mundane, there is something about the mundane that excites me more (being able to do things without the help of the supernatural and overcoming problems with pure intellect and ingenuity). I think that's part of the problem here is that I find that I'm not as willing to break away from reality. I want something that is a bit more mundane, so high tier 5 or even bumping it up to tier 4 would be fine for this purpose, but I'd still like to create something people have confidence in playing, and I feel like they might shoot for tier 3 to do that, so we'll see what happens.

    Regardless, I've got the Shield Combat paths up, as I've mentioned; there are two new shouts, and I've added a few more abilities as listed in the change log

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bekeleven's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InstinctsKill View Post
    This makes a lot more sense. I can't lie, either: when it comes down to magic and mundane, there is something about the mundane that excites me more (being able to do things without the help of the supernatural and overcoming problems with pure intellect and ingenuity). I think that's part of the problem here is that I find that I'm not as willing to break away from reality. I want something that is a bit more mundane, so high tier 5 or even bumping it up to tier 4 would be fine for this purpose, but I'd still like to create something people have confidence in playing, and I feel like they might shoot for tier 3 to do that, so we'll see what happens.
    Based on the half-baked rambling I spewed at you, I wrote up a summary of the Guy at the Gym Fallacy, which deals with the relationship between mundanes and the supernatural.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hanuman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    I don't think having more utility is a bad thing.

    I think you should only be able to use a heavy or towershield with 2 hands.

    I think you should be able to throw a light shield or buckler like captain america.

    I don't think you should force a choice of focus between 2 handed and 1 handed shields, if you're using one then you probably aren't using the other. And so what if you are? You aren't gaining the shield bonus so it may as well be any other weapon anyway.

    Really when it comes down to it weapon proficiencies, weapon focus, armor/shield proficiency, things like that are so over-valued in a class. They cost a minimal amount of one level of one class' balance and are carried over through splash, dip, and multi-classing.

    The way I see it, weapon proficiency should be an inherent free progressive bonus from BAB, like you unlock more single weapon choices the more BAB you have, and armor and shields should be a HD unlock for higher HD classes and just paired in with it, having a scaling advancement of armor effectiveness.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Morph Bark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Freljord

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InstinctsKill View Post
    Aye. I am no stranger to Leona! She's easily my favorite support in LoL. It was partly her, partly Vikings (the History Channel TV Series), and partly because not many takes on the Shieldmaiden have been homebrewed that inspired me to take this route.
    Partially for this reason, this class has already won my heart.

    Alright. I think I am a bit confused with the tiering then. I'm taking my reference from Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium. Usually, with the parties I've been playing with, if we're selecting homebrew off of this list, it's typically up in the Tier 3 area. That's mostly why I'm aiming that high: I want something that people are going to want to play and not feel like they are hampered by a lower-tier class.
    Why, that's a nice thing to hear! To be honest, while I've been often told that the people like the Homebrew Tier Compendium, this is the first time someone has outright said that they use it to actually help them pick classes for their games as a player. A DM once, but not yet a player. Thank you.

    Keep in mind that versatility is much more important in the Tier distinction and that power takes a backseat. Power is the big divider between Tier 2 and Tier 3 and between Tier 4 and Tier 5. Versatility is the big decider between all the rest. (Except for Tier 6, that one is seperated from Tier 5 on both accounts.)

    I'll be going over your class later in full. This was the last class on my list to review today, but there were already quite some before it, so I'll save this for a better moment to come soon.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2013-09-16 at 05:31 AM.
    YouTube channel:

    The Asobimashow thread |Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Triumphant blow doesn't work with creatures that have no head. Also, how long does she have to raise her trophy because wouldn't that provoke attacks of opportunity? I really dislike forcing PCs to act in a certain manner. It's too heavy-handed.

    Compellig reason makes her a terrible buttinski and detracts from what an ally may want to do on his or her own. Not a big fan of this. Does she have to declare she is doing this? What if the ally doesn't want her help?

    Why isn't baleful bash simply a standard action? Why limit it to twice an encounter? I hate the 4e creep in 3.5.

    The problem with armored indifference is that DR never stacks and this is just such a cheat to the game that I wouldn't allow it for a base class. "If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation." She already gets DR 1/- at first level so gaining it again at 10th seems like lazy design. Allowing it to stack just violates the rules in a way that seems cheesy to me.

    While I see this a lot, it still makes me wince. PCs don't really gain a +10 enhancement to speed as that would have no effect. They gain a speed bonus in feet. You add +10 feet not simply +10.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-09-16 at 06:26 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bekeleven's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    The problem with armored indifference is that DR never stacks and this is just such a cheat to the game that I wouldn't allow it for a base class. "If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation." She already gets DR 1/- at first level so gaining it again at 10th seems like lazy design. Allowing it to stack just violates the rules in a way that seems cheesy to me.
    Roll With It, a feat from Savage Species, gives stacking DR. It essentially reads "apply any other DR you have and when you're done, attacks deal 2 less." Oh, and you can take it multiple times. I hear it's rather popular in E6 games.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    It is a feat that also requires Con 20 and Toughness as a prerequisite. If you can take it as a feat, why then does this class also need to have stacking? Make them take the feat like everyone else. They already get DR at first level. Giving them stacking DR when they can take a feat that also allows stacking is asking for abuse.

    This is when the DM comes out with monsters that overcome all DR and it doesn't matter how much you have. Why? Because it levels the playing field. Gaining DR 2/- multiple times means you have to wait levels for it to increase.

    If you want to give out Roll With It as a bonus feat at level 10 then do so. But double stacking just strikes me as way to abusable.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-09-16 at 07:12 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Why, that's a nice thing to hear! To be honest, while I've been often told that the people like the Homebrew Tier Compendium, this is the first time someone has outright said that they use it to actually help them pick classes for their games as a player. A DM once, but not yet a player. Thank you.
    Well, what can I say? Credit is given where credit is earned!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Keep in mind that versatility is much more important in the Tier distinction and that power takes a backseat. Power is the big divider between Tier 2 and Tier 3 and between Tier 4 and Tier 5. Versatility is the big decider between all the rest. (Except for Tier 6, that one is seperated from Tier 5 on both accounts.)
    Alright. I thought (and was really hoping) this was more the case mainly because I am playing an Improviser class created by WaylanderX, and she isn't very "powerful" from a magical standpoint. In fact, she was created for the sole purpose of being completely mundane, yet she's chock-full of potential utility like a caster would be (and even emulates certain magical abilities). While the Shieldmaiden does not quite hit this level (or, at the very least, not in the way the Improviser does), it still seemed like it should be possible to reach that 3rd tier level without cramming in magic, per say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I'll be going over your class later in full. This was the last class on my list to review today, but there were already quite some before it, so I'll save this for a better moment to come soon.
    Wow. I must say, going into this, I had hoped that she might be tiered, but with the amount of work you have cut out for you in tiering so many classes both in and out of contests, as you have mentioned in the compendium, I wasn't getting my hopes too high. Seeing this, I can't say I know what to say, so I hope a simple "thank you" will suffice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Triumphant blow doesn't work with creatures that have no head. Also, how long does she have to raise her trophy because wouldn't that provoke attacks of opportunity? I really dislike forcing PCs to act in a certain manner. It's too heavy-handed.
    It was never meant to be for anything more than flavor. As far as the ability states, the entire ability is a part of the attack action, and I intend to keep it that way. Assuming you don't provoke AoO in some other way during your turn, you won't be subject to them with Triumphant Blow either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Compelling reason makes her a terrible buttinski and detracts from what an ally may want to do on his or her own. Not a big fan of this. Does she have to declare she is doing this? What if the ally doesn't want her help?
    You're going to have to help me out with this one: unless they are intentionally trying to fail, then why wouldn't someone want a higher result on their roll? She does not have to declare it beforehand. Think of it as you trying to convince somebody of something, they say no, and then one of your peers helps them reconsider by showing them another perspective that would help change their viewpoint. Same basic concept. And if the ally doesn't want her help, they should make this clear beforehand. Otherwise, PC's are quite able to make their own decisions, so if that's what the Shieldmaiden wants to do, she's going to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Why isn't baleful bash simply a standard action? Why limit it to twice an encounter? I hate the 4e creep in 3.5.
    Because, depending upon the number of encounters you have, this is going to be a bigger amount than limiting it to daily uses. On top of that, the number of times it's usable per encounter goes up at level 16, anyways. If it'd be better, I could bump it up to 3/encounter, but anything higher than that may make it potentially too strong at level 16.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    While I see this a lot, it still makes me wince. PCs don't really gain a +10 enhancement to speed as that would have no effect. They gain a speed bonus in feet. You add +10 feet not simply +10.
    Oops. You know, I remember thinking about how I needed to clarify "feet" there at the time, but I guess I only did it within the confines of my mind. I'll get that changed, here.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    Roll With It, a feat from Savage Species, gives stacking DR. It essentially reads "apply any other DR you have and when you're done, attacks deal 2 less." Oh, and you can take it multiple times. I hear it's rather popular in E6 games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    It is a feat that also requires Con 20 and Toughness as a prerequisite. If you can take it as a feat, why then does this class also need to have stacking? Make them take the feat like everyone else. They already get DR at first level. Giving them stacking DR when they can take a feat that also allows stacking is asking for abuse.

    This is when the DM comes out with monsters that overcome all DR and it doesn't matter how much you have. Why? Because it levels the playing field. Gaining DR 2/- multiple times means you have to wait levels for it to increase.

    If you want to give out Roll With It as a bonus feat at level 10 then do so. But double stacking just strikes me as way to abusable.
    I think I'm going to address the DR all at once right here. I didn't realize it's a feat, but that's besides that point here (and even if they did continuously stack that feat, aren't they potentially losing out on further utility from other feats they could take?). As I sit here and think it over a bit, being able to double- and triple-stack Armored Indifference probably is too strong, but I would really hope that the other abilities you can choose from (Spell Block, if anything) would be more useful that straight damage mitigation only. The stacking of DR idea came from something that was already implemented elsewhere via the resource Hanuman provided, and the changes and ideas that author implemented were very well received, so I guess I'll have to hear it from more than one person if I'm going to be convinced to take that out completely. And I don't see why a DM would have to throw in monsters that always completely overcome DR. To me, that's lazy DM'ing. If anything, it empowers a DM to throw more powerful creatures at a party without having to worry about overcoming DR, especially in combination with the Stubborn Resolve shout.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Morph Bark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Freljord

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InstinctsKill View Post
    Wow. I must say, going into this, I had hoped that she might be tiered, but with the amount of work you have cut out for you in tiering so many classes both in and out of contests, as you have mentioned in the compendium, I wasn't getting my hopes too high. Seeing this, I can't say I know what to say, so I hope a simple "thank you" will suffice.
    Don't let me get your hopes up too high. I review a lot more than I Tier, but let me see first.


    Shouts: "A shieldmaiden has access to all of her shouts unless otherwise noted." Yet the table shows a limited number. Is this number the amount of shouts she can use per encounter, with a 1d4+1 round wait time between the shouts, or do you mean that she learns a limited amount of shouts, which she can always use, but that each individual shout has a 1d4+1 round cooldown?

    Triumphant Blow: Nauseated and Sickened don't stack. One overrides the other, though I forget which. (Probably Nauseated, as you had Sickened alone right above it.)

    I like Able-Bodied and its crunch-fluff connection.

    That connection is much weaker on Halt! and the throwing-to-the-ground part is rather strong at that level for just a touch attack. The DC is low enough that it might be alright though.

    Compelling Reasoning makes me chuckle at the imagery it produces. I'd probably make it full Cha mod though as the class is now, or give her a later Improved Compelling Reasoning that does that if you make the class less MAD.

    Right now I'm up to Baleful Bash, and it seems to me that the class is rather MAD with going between Str, Con and Cha. Considering how you get Con in place of Str and Dex in several places, I'd think at some point you'd get it to damage or attack as well, so that Str becomes neglectable. As-is, I'd sooner keep Cha low, at risk of ruining out-of-combat versatility.

    Superior Defense is great for all options.

    Iron Maiden should probably say "up to two properties that can be applied to shields OR armor" rather than and.

    Overall a decent class. I wish it was less MAD though. That'd bring it up to a solid Borderline Tier 3-4.
    YouTube channel:

    The Asobimashow thread |Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shieldmaiden [3.5 Base Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Don't let me get your hopes up too high. I review a lot more than I Tier, but let me see first.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Shouts: "A shieldmaiden has access to all of her shouts unless otherwise noted." Yet the table shows a limited number. Is this number the amount of shouts she can use per encounter, with a 1d4+1 round wait time between the shouts, or do you mean that she learns a limited amount of shouts, which she can always use, but that each individual shout has a 1d4+1 round cooldown?
    The numbers in the table represent the number of shouts that can be used per encounter. The cooldowns are calculated per shout. I don't think I like this anymore though. Originally, the shouts had cooldowns to prevent stacking the bonuses from a single shout, but I've since specified bonus types to make sure they don't. I think I'm going to cut the cooldowns. If players use the same shout two rounds in a row, it'll just reset the duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Triumphant Blow: Nauseated and Sickened don't stack. One overrides the other, though I forget which. (Probably Nauseated, as you had Sickened alone right above it.)
    Ah. Alright. I'll get that fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I like Able-Bodied and its crunch-fluff connection.

    That connection is much weaker on Halt! and the throwing-to-the-ground part is rather strong at that level for just a touch attack. The DC is low enough that it might be alright though.
    The idea behind Halt! is a bit tiered. In one sense, you have the opportunity to make a touch attack, but only if you have that free hand. She is definitely welcome to drop her weapon if she chooses, but if she doesn't go the Two-Handed Shield Wielding route, it's just a regular attack of opportunity. Also, this ability is otherwise just Stand Still. I did want to make it a bit more unique though, so I added the extra battlefield control should an enemy decide to utterly fail their save.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Compelling Reasoning makes me chuckle at the imagery it produces. I'd probably make it full Cha mod though as the class is now, or give her a later Improved Compelling Reasoning that does that if you make the class less MAD.
    Yeah, the thought I had here is how mothers are always trying to reinforce the ideas of their children and encourage them and such. I figured "why not throw it in the class?" I mean, that's her role, after all. Fair enough though. I'll bump it up to the full mod.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Right now I'm up to Baleful Bash, and it seems to me that the class is rather MAD with going between Str, Con and Cha. Considering how you get Con in place of Str and Dex in several places, I'd think at some point you'd get it to damage or attack as well, so that Str becomes neglectable. As-is, I'd sooner keep Cha low, at risk of ruining out-of-combat versatility.
    Alright. I'm seeing the problems here now. I think it goes back to my whole "trying to fit close to reality" aspect, in that I was trying to keep abilities tied to their logical attribute. This is fine at lower levels, but, like you've made clear, it's going to hamper her late-level capabilities. I think I'll throw 3 extra tiers into Able-Bodied that add attack rolls, damage rolls, and Str-related class abilities to the list of rolls made with the Con mod.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Superior Defense is great for all options.
    Awesome. The goal here was to create four abilities and three choices as she levels to make the PC really think about how they want to utilize her without one of the options being a definite "there's no way I would need that one" choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Iron Maiden should probably say "up to two properties that can be applied to shields OR armor" rather than and.
    I think there's some confusion with this one (that I'm definitely going to have to clear up). I don't mean that their choice applies to both. I meant to say that they get to pick a property, and whichever of the two (armor or shield) it best applies to is the item that gets it. They just get to pick from the properties that can be applied to shields and armor, specifically not weapons, is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Overall a decent class. I wish it was less MAD though. That'd bring it up to a solid Borderline Tier 3-4.
    Sounds good. I'll change it up shortly here to represent the what I've talked about above.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •