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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    You should be careful using "his" or "he", 'cause I have no idea if you are talking about your brother or the opposing computer.


    So, you brought a whole new meaning to the expression "Gunboat Diplomacy"?
    It was Civ One. The possibility of multiplayer simply didn't exist for that edition (although I'm told someone hacked the code many years later). The battleship originally belonged to the computer player.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    I'm currently playing a hot seat game with a friend. I'm Netherlands and he's Germany. I've spent the majority of the game in the lead through having a strong economy due to being able to sell off all my luxuries and still retain happiness. I'm currently gunning for a cultural victory, although I am also the most scientifically advanced - being an era ahead of my friend and several eras ahead of other AI civs.

    The AI are: Russia, America, Rome and Siam. Siam is all but wiped out, Rome was bullied by Germany, America was my ally for most of the game until they went Autocracy (I'm Freedom) and Russia is my current ally. I have the majority of the city states in the game allied with me too, but Russia, America and Germany have been making that difficult - none of the ones I have are militaristic.

    My problem? My friend knows that I'm two social policy trees away from winning so he's coming after me next. I have four cities including my capital and only a small army. I'm currently trying to get to the Sydney Opera House in order to increase my culture output but I'm uncomfortably far from that.

    What do you all suggest I should do? No other civs can be bribed to go to war with Germany. It's not possible to denounce another player. Do I try to amass a larger army to fight him off? Should I give my smaller cities away to another civ in order to decrease the cost of social policies? It's a relatively small map so there aren't many turns left before he gets near me. I have a few Sea Beggars but they're really outnumbered by Privateers - I can build/purchase submarines, though.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Dihan View Post
    I can build/purchase submarines, though.
    This is your solution. Subs are very powerful, and if he doesn't have any destroyers yet, he will have a very hard time dealing with them. Having an extra cannon/artillery or two around your coastal cities will help a lot as well.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by OrcusMcP View Post
    This is your solution. Subs are very powerful, and if he doesn't have any destroyers yet, he will have a very hard time dealing with them. Having an extra cannon/artillery or two around your coastal cities will help a lot as well.
    If it's a full-on war, he can most definetly use the Subs to cripple the opposition's naval trade routes, which is going to be horrible on his finance if he really want to afford a full-on army.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Thirded on snagging some subs. If his army has to go over water then they'll make it next to impossible for those troops to cross safely. At least buy you some time to build up some more defenses.

    You said you had Freedom? One of the Freedom tenets gives you an instant 6 Foreign Legion Infantry. I don't know exactly how strong they are, but in a pinch it couldn't hurt.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    Thirded on snagging some subs. If his army has to go over water then they'll make it next to impossible for those troops to cross safely. At least buy you some time to build up some more defenses.

    You said you had Freedom? One of the Freedom tenets gives you an instant 6 Foreign Legion Infantry. I don't know exactly how strong they are, but in a pinch it couldn't hurt.
    I have a feeling he's only playing God & Kings, since he mentions policy count for a cultural victory.
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  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Indeed. I forgot to mention that my friend doesn't have Brave New World yet so it's not possible to plunder trade routes. The game is also on a round map so the majority of his army is land-based but he also has a navy to capture coastal cities - which Amsterdam is for me. Subs would help defend Amsterdam but they'd be useless for the rest of my cities. I think I'm quite close to researching flight if that helps. I've never used planes so I'm not sure how good they are.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Dihan View Post
    Indeed. I forgot to mention that my friend doesn't have Brave New World yet so it's not possible to plunder trade routes. The game is also on a round map so the majority of his army is land-based but he also has a navy to capture coastal cities - which Amsterdam is for me. Subs would help defend Amsterdam but they'd be useless for the rest of my cities. I think I'm quite close to researching flight if that helps. I've never used planes so I'm not sure how good they are.
    Planes are really good, especially if you are out-teching. Just make sure you build quite a few, as many as you have oil for if you can. Use them to whittle down ranged units and cavalry.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by OrcusMcP View Post
    Planes are really good, especially if you are out-teching. Just make sure you build quite a few, as many as you have oil for if you can. Use them to whittle down ranged units and cavalry.
    Air superiority is a beautiful thing. Stealth bombers have a range of 20. It's ridiculous. The great war bomber only has a range of 6, but that's still a huge help since you'll be playing defense. Since you're ahead in tech and he's being more aggressive I'm assuming he doesn't have Radio yet? Without Anti-Aircraft Guns you can probably just bomb his advancing army into oblivion before he's close enough to do any real damage to you.
    Last edited by zabbarot; 2013-07-30 at 09:10 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Ok, thanks all. I think I may have some offshore oil that I can build platforms on. I'll get to building subs while I research planes, move my units to a more defensive position and try to hold out until I can get some planes (if I can't already - I'm not sure). I'll see if any other civs have oil that I can trade luxuries for. If I get a social policy, should I go for Constitution (+2 culture per World Wonder) or Universal Suffrage (combat strength of cities increased by 33%)?

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Well, if you have a number of wonders to begin with, and are relatively close to winning cultural victory, I'd recommend to get another boost for it.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    I think I have the vast majority of wonders so I would most likely get quite a large bonus. I currently have three policy trees completed and I've started my fourth so I still have some way to go.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Eh, that choice comes down to math @_@ If you really wanted you could figure how many turns it'll take him to get to you vs how many turns it will take you to win and compare the benefits of each.

    Your safest route is probably to go for the defensive bonus first, but if the map is big enough you might be able to get both before he reaches you.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by zabbarot View Post
    Eh, that choice comes down to math @_@ If you really wanted you could figure how many turns it'll take him to get to you vs how many turns it will take you to win and compare the benefits of each.

    Your safest route is probably to go for the defensive bonus first, but if the map is big enough you might be able to get both before he reaches you.
    Technically, the bonus to culture will help him get the defensive bonus earlier?

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    The map really isn't that big. If he can manage to get Open Borders with Rome and America then he could get to me quickly. If he decides to go around them then he'll come to lots of mountainous terrain. Or he can go around via the ocean. I think the map is Donut with mountains and hills in the middle. If it was Brave New World then I'd probably have won through tourism or diplomacy by now.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Technically, the bonus to culture will help him get the defensive bonus earlier?
    not earlier than if you just took the defensive boost first though. I mean both are needed to win anyways so it's just about prioritizing.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Yeah. Culture-boost first means you finish the total faster, but it's still slower than getting the defensive boost first.

    I'd say get the culture first - from what you've said it sounds like you've got a pretty good chance of holding him off with your tech advantage. That way if you manage to hold him off well enough you can go for something else (if the defensive boost proves unnecessary) that's more immediately useful.
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  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    So I'm looking through the Policy trees and noticed that the Forbidden Palace requires Patronage. They gave it 2 additional delegates, which I guess makes sense because Patronage is probably the best tree for Diplomatic victory, but before BNW I usually just though of the Forbidden Palace as a wonder for wide empires to manage happiness. For me that usually means I'm being more punchy and less diplomatic. And the bonus delegates just seem tacked on IMO.

    tl;dr Forbidden Palace being attached to Patronage seems weird.

  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Dihan View Post
    Should I give my smaller cities away to another civ in order to decrease the cost of social policies?
    Doesn't work. The social policy increase is from founding/annexing cities, not from owning them so its permanent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dihan View Post
    I've never used planes so I'm not sure how good they are.
    Very. They completely change the game. Only problem is that they aren't cheap so you can't build up a force of them without having a spare city that can afford to just churn out planes.

    You want whatever Freedom Policy leads to 'half food for specialists'. That's the one to prioritise getting first.

    Quote Originally Posted by zabbarot View Post
    tl;dr Forbidden Palace being attached to Patronage seems weird.
    Makes sense to me because its a Chinese Wonder and the Chinese saw themselves as the centre of the world and all other nations as only fitting to give tribute, eg like CivV city states. The Persians and the Byzantines were similar in their treatment of foreign dignitaries but neither of them have palaces as world wonders.
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  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    From my current game. It's coming up to the 80th turn, and two city states have asked me to find Babylon (my scouting efforts having been curtailed). So I talk to Neby, only to find that I can't exchange embassies because he hadn't discovered writing yet. Nor did he have it 12 turns later, when my scout finally spotted his borders.
    I do worry about the AI sometimes.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Silver View Post
    From my current game. It's coming up to the 80th turn, and two city states have asked me to find Babylon (my scouting efforts having been curtailed). So I talk to Neby, only to find that I can't exchange embassies because he hadn't discovered writing yet. Nor did he have it 12 turns later, when my scout finally spotted his borders.
    I do worry about the AI sometimes.
    What difficulty and game speed are you on?

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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by zabbarot View Post
    What difficulty and game speed are you on?
    Prince and Standard Speed (I wouldn't have brought this up if it was, say, Marathon). It was odd, because at this point the AI is usually at least tries to make an effort at using a civilization's advantages. Babylon appears to be confusing it though.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    I really wonder how the AIs weigh their options sometimes : | Though above prince I'm pretty sure Neb will always rush writing, but maybe something else came up, like a bad starting position that required some other tech to be useful?

    On the same vein, does anybody have an idea as to how AIs pick beliefs? Do they just have preferred beliefs and random after, or is it actually situational?

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    *jumps into thread*

    I got Civ 5 from steam with all the expansions just a week ago, and I think I'm hooked. I've started a couple multiplayer games with my one friend who has Civ, but none have moved past the classical era because we rarely get to play together.

    My current game is a huge map (continents plus) with 11 AIs on Warlord. I'm roughly 190 turns in on standard pace. I feel like I'm in a good place because I was lucky enough to get a continent all to myself with no city-states or other civs, so since I've had no need to build extraneous units, I've been able to churn out a good seven or eight wonders. That includes Great Library, National College, and Oxford, because I'm putting a huge focus on science in lieu of units. I've got all of... three? four? combat units total. My long-term plan is to get to the information era first, build some huge units, and take the world by storm. Of course, I could also go for a science victory, but that's far less satisfying.

    However, I never know if I'm ahead or behind where I "should" be. Are there rough guidelines for things like "be in age X on turn Y", "have your second/third/fourth cities on turn A/B/C", or "explore X% of the world by turn Y"? In this game, how well am I doing? How do I know if I'm ahead or behind "the curve" in comparison to the other civilizations?
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  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Check the demographics overview in game. It will tell you were you rank in relation to the other civs.

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Demographics and your current score (there's an option to display the score table at the top right of the display) are your best indicators as to how well you're doing compared to the other civs. You can also look at the score in the Diplomacy screen, and that has the advantage that it'll break the score down into its constituents if you hover over it--so, if your enemy has a tech score of 140 while yours is 120, you know they've got a good few techs more than you have!

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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by AttilaTheGeek View Post
    However, I never know if I'm ahead or behind where I "should" be. Are there rough guidelines for things like "be in age X on turn Y", "have your second/third/fourth cities on turn A/B/C", or "explore X% of the world by turn Y"? In this game, how well am I doing? How do I know if I'm ahead or behind "the curve" in comparison to the other civilizations?
    On the highest difficulties I believe that sort of stuff is necessary, though the lower ones are more forgiving and allow you room to improvise and play around.

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Ridiculous luck with the ruins on my current game: three settlers so far. I have five cities and never built a settler myself.
    Thanks to Veera for the avatar.

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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Demographics and your current score (there's an option to display the score table at the top right of the display) are your best indicators as to how well you're doing compared to the other civs. You can also look at the score in the Diplomacy screen, and that has the advantage that it'll break the score down into its constituents if you hover over it--so, if your enemy has a tech score of 140 while yours is 120, you know they've got a good few techs more than you have!
    If you can get trade routes with them, that can give you indications as well. If they give you a lot more beakers/turn than you give them, they have outteched you. If you get relative gold parity from the routes, the cities(and presumably the whole civ) are similarly developed to your own.

    From there, if you've gathered that you are ahead, if you go to the trade/diplomacy screen and notice that they have low gpt on top, they may be ripe for some plucking.
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  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Sid Meyer's Civilization

    Oh, okay, cool. Thanks for all the help! However, due to recent developments my inevitable second set of questions may not have such encouraging answers.

    But first, some background. Because of my science focus, I've made it into the modern era while the rest of the AIs are still in the late renaissance and early industrial. I've just finished enough submarines to keep a constant watch of the seas everywhere within five tiles of my continent, and I've got two great war bombers with another on the way. However, I may be attacked by the massive inca civ, who has ten cities of their own (to my five, one of which is tiny) plus a decent number of puppets. This leads to my first question: to what extent are advanced units stronger than their lower-technology counterparts? If I have, say, one Great War Infantry, could it take down two gatling guns? three? five?

    On that note, to what extent is war fatal to a civilization? If I fight a war and lose, it it a 20-turn setback or does it spell the end of the game? The magnitude of a declaration of war will tell me if I need to avoid a fight at all costs or if I can go to war with confidence.

    Finally, what happens if the game reaches a turn limit? Does victory just go to the civ with the highest raw score? If so, what can I do to increase my score quickly?
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