The Stick Awards II: Second Edition (Results and General Commentary)

[ChristianSt]

I would like a semi-finals approach (it also allows you to add "Top50"s for free, if you like).

Rules for it seems fine, only clarification: I assume the Tie Rules applies to all shared positions, so for example this voting:
{table]#|votes||#|votes

1

|

2

||

51

|

7
11

|

2

||

61

|

2
21

|

22

||

71

|

2
31

|

2

||

81

|

2
51

|

2

||

91

|

50

[/table]
should advance all 10 strips (I would add a clause that only strip with votes can advance, so if no more then three steps manage to achieve some votes [I don't think that will happen] only two or three gets into the finals).
Also I assume it is possible that no wild card is needed to advanced (if there is a three-way-tie winning or both semi-finals tie). (Some of this can surely be prevented by giving your final vote to a specific comic, but just to be on the safe side)
[Or shorter formulated: All semifinal-winners advance + the minimum number of wild-cards to put at least four participants into the final, excluding any strip with zero votes]

As for the timing: since 15!=14, how would that affect the schedule?
Would you shift the regular voting round for one day? will you cut the next regular round one day short? Or will there parallel rounds to even it out (So either Semifinal 1 final day overlaps with Seminfinal 2 day 1 or final/regular round)
I would be fine either way (so I think you should do what is easiest for you, but I think I would like to not shift the regular schedule (so either skipping a day in one round or overlapping voting periods). Another way to not have this problem would be just making three 7-day voting periods (I don't know which approach would be the best) or to make uneven voting periods (4-4-6 springs to my mind). But as I said, I would be fine either way (so I would vote for: simple do the easiest thing for you)


Something unrelated: I think you should specify how you list comics with equal votes in the result listing. It seems simply be strip-#, but wouldn't bad to just add that information.

[Porthos]

I would be fine either way (so I think you should do what is easiest for you, but I think I would like to not shift the regular schedule (so either skipping a day in one round or overlapping voting periods).

Truth be told, I'm a little curious to see what is going to happen if the first couple of days are on different days. Want to see if there if greater response if the poll starts on a Weekend/Weekday for instance. Or what happens when the poll launches on a Thursday instead of a Sunday. Is there any varience at all? Or is it all random noise?

I guess I just like to tinker.

Honestly it probably doesn't matter all that much when the poll starts since the main schedule is on a weekly basis. But curiosity still gnaws at the back of my head.

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

I actually don't remember how it was when I was in charge, but I guess it depends on the main comic update day. I'm guessing that the forum gets more attention on the day the comic is released, then a little less next day and it gradually fades until the majority of the people writing on the forums are the overanalyzers, future psychics and argument-trolls, and some threads are locked here and there.

As for the vote format, my padawan, you have freedom to do whatever you want, since I'm retired, but I would keep it simple. 10x10 format, and that's it.

Keep up the good work, the first BotH is right there.

[Morgan Wick]

Dang it, if I wasn't avoiding the comic like the plague to avoid the emotional torque of Girard's illusion (and to work on school), I would have wanted to take over the Sticks Awards myself (picking up from where Nazzo left off in my case)! I had all these ideas about logos for the Awards, results threads that appealed to my own neuroses by exploiting the Awards' inherent structure... damn it all. (And I can't even use my logo ideas because of the move back to 10/10 rounds instead of 5/5/4 rounds!)

I definitely would have preferred sticking with 5/5/4 just because it makes it easier to process if you have fewer comics to deal with at a time, and it creates a more epic build to the BotH round, but then 5/5/4 was already in place when I discovered the Awards so it's what I'm used to.

[Porthos]

Dang it, if I wasn't avoiding the comic like the plague to avoid the emotional torque of Girard's illusion (and to work on school), I would have wanted to take over the Sticks Awards myself (picking up from where Nazzo left off in my case)! I had all these ideas about logos for the Awards, results threads that appealed to my own neuroses by exploiting the Awards' inherent structure... damn it all. (And I can't even use my logo ideas because of the move back to 10/10 rounds instead of 5/5/4 rounds!)

I definitely would have preferred sticking with 5/5/4 just because it makes it easier to process if you have fewer comics to deal with at a time, and it creates a more epic build to the BotH round, but then 5/5/4 was already in place when I discovered the Awards so it's what I'm used to.

Glad to see you back on the forums, Morgan Wick.

And at the moment I am going with a semi-final approach to the Best of the Hundred, just to see how it turns out. So it'll sorta be like the Best of the Quarters.

Also, nothing's stopping you from being the commentator on these new Awards. If ya'd like to, that is.

[Porthos]

Now that the first hundred strips have been voted on, I wanted to do a little bit of a look back. Due to varius forum purges, I couldn't look at the exact voting results for the majority of the rounds of the first Stick Awards, hosted by Nazzo, the 102nd. But I could look at the last couple of ones, including the very first Best of the Hundred.

Now, two provisos. Back then, we had actual real honsest-to-goodness polls. So there was many more votes as it allowed for anonymous drive-by voting. Secondly, the format I chose here was a little different than the initial BotH, as it had a straight 1 out of 10 voting.

With that said, though, here are those results from way back in 2007:

The Stick Awards: BotH (1-100)
{table]#7| ThorPrayer | 14 votes | 6.57%
#20| Arcanolypse Now | 35 votes | 16.43%
#28| Just Like on Three's Company | 12 votes | 5.63%
#40| The Gods Must be Busy | 15 votes | 7.04%
#50| The Semi-Secret Origin of Elan & Nale | 7 votes | 3.29%
#58| First Aid | 40 votes | 18.78%
#64| Transference | 16 votes | 7.51%
#80| Replacement Cleric | 9 votes | 4.23%
#81| First Church of Banjo | 38 votes | 17.84%
#95| Dead Men Tell Tales | 27 votes | 12.68%[/table]

Compare that to Stick Awards II:

The Stick Awards II: BotH (1-100)
Semi #1
{table]|

4

| The Power of Music |

8

|

20.51%

|
|

13

| Plot, Ahoy!|

4

|

10.26%

|
|

24

| Do You Hear What I Hear? |

9

|

23.08%

|
|

38

| Spontaneous Artistic Expression |

6

|

15.38%

|
|

50

| The Semi-Secret Origin of Elan & Nale |

12

|

30.77%

|[/table]

Semi #2
{table]|

51

| Stupid Isn't Always Cute |

8

|

21.05%

|
|

64

| Transference |

5

|

13.16%

|
|

80

| Replacement Cleric |

11

|

28.95%

|
|

90

| Consequences of a Failed Skill Check |

11

|

28.95%

|
|

92

| Reading is Fundamental |

3

|

7.89%

|[/table]

Finals
{table]|

24

| Do You Hear What I Hear? |

6

|

16.22%

|
|

50

| The Semi-Secret Origin of Elan & Nale |

10

|

27.03%

|
|

80

| Replacement Cleric |

7

|

18.92%

|
|

90

| Consequences of a Failed Skill Check |

14

|

37.84%

|[/table]

Seven out of the ten BotH entrants were different. The Semi-Secret Origin of Elan and Nale did far better this time around than previously when looked at as a percentage of the vote. So to did Replacement Cleric.

In the original BotH, five of the entrants were pretty self-contained to the time they went up, though Just Like on Three's Company was one of the first signs of the Haley/Elan dynamic. And I suppose Dead Men Tell Tales did touch upon the Gate storyline. But it still centered around a self-contained gag that wasn't revisited.

The latter BotH, on the other hand, seemed to have more results for running gags and plot points. Do You Hear What I Hear and Spontaneous Artistic Expression are the only self-contained strips of the bunch. Admittedly, the eventual winner Consequences of a Failed Skill Check was also self-contained for the vast majority of the strip's run, until it was referenced earlier. Still, it should count I suppose.

So 5/10 versus 3/10 when it comes to being stand alone.

Anyone else have any observations?

[Bird]

Good to see some "Haley" strips (as defined by the icons Porthos chooses) placing. She had zero places (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in the first 100 strips. Thor did better than that.

I suppose it makes sense that she wouldn't have placed well at first, since her early appearances were marred by those "tee hee my top" sexually stereotyped shenanigans. More than anyone, she needed character development.

[Tris]

I wonder if next time we use the alternate voting system.

[Gift Jeraff]

Am I the only one confused by all the people voting "for plot"? Plot importance is a neutral quality, so I don't see how it makes an individual strip any better or worse.

[Bird]

Am I the only one confused by all the people voting "for plot"? Plot importance is a neutral quality, so I don't see how it makes an individual strip any better or worse.

Any unit of a story -- be it scene, shot, sentence, strip, whatever -- can be said to be working hard if it accomplishes multiple goals.

That is, a [strip] that tells a joke is great, but a [strip] that tells a joke, develops character, forwards plot, establishes theme, etc etc etc, all at once, is really strong.

Some people appreciate when character/jokes/whatever are accompanied by story advancement. You call plot importance a "neutral quality," but there is an actual pleasure that goes along with watching the plot come into focus or move forward. Plot movement is momentum. It plays into the fun of thinking about what came before and what happens next. It creates new situations that allow us to learn more about the characters and the themes of the work.

In addition, because OotS has a grand story at this point, individual strips that are important cogs in that grandeur will be favored by some people. While some people will gravitate towards the jokes they found the funniest, others will most appreciate the strips that are most salient to the overarching story. For the latter, reading plot-critical strips can be like swallowing a whole arc of the story in capsule form. Context is king. We aren't reading the individual strips in a vacuum.

Finally, nothing wrong with saying a strip is your favorite merely because it's "important." Maybe if you could only keep one strip out of every ten to read in the future, you'd save the one with the most plot importance. Maybe not. This is a popularity contest, after all. Anything goes.

(Note: I don't actually mean that there are "plot" people, "character" people, "joke" people, etc. In reality, these issues are exquisitely interrelated, and most readers will appreciate all of them to differing extents.)

[Porthos]

Pretty much what Bird said. The Stick Awards are for what people think is the 'Best' strip. But 'best' is pretty subjective. For some, it is the humor in the individual strip. Others, what it sets up in the future. Others still, how memorable it was. Or dramatic. Or...

Well, you get the point.

But you are right that this time around there does seem to be a bit more attention given to the strips that set up plot developments down the road rather than the more stand alone ones. I suspect all the Tropers running around now has something to do with it.

Well, that and the fact that now that there are hundreds of strips to look back on, we can see the things that might have seemed to be minor be placed in a more important context. Take the starmetal stuff. At the time, Roy finding the chunk of starmetal might have seen to be the most important strip of that set, with V's confrontation an amusing little diversion.

Now though? Not so much. So much so in fact, that Roy's deadpan 'typical' didn't get a single vote this time, despite the fact that it finished second in the Original Stick Awards (the eye spy game finished first, for those curious).

Such is hindsight.

[Bird]

I agree with your first two points, but I'm going with the majority here and saying 464 is the better strip.

Seriously, in what possible way is 456 a good strip?

I have no idea how much D&D you've played, but as someone who played a lot of 3E--the novelty of seeing a spell-caster duel as they really tend to happen was a delight. The irony wasn't subtle, but it worked.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I have no idea how much D&D you've played, but as someone who played a lot of 3E--the novelty of seeing a spell-caster duel as they really tend to happen was a delight. The irony wasn't subtle, but it worked.

I agree with this; the strip was (IMO) a very funny joke about caster fights tend to play out. Just because it doesn't move along the plot or characters doesn't mean it can't be considered the best strip. These awards are not necessarily for the story alone (as you might see in the large number of votes for #301). I also think that the beginning of Porthos's post upthread has a pretty good point.

[Porthos]

Well, if people want to 'blame' me for 456 winning, since I cast the tie-breaking vote after some deliberation, go right ahead. I'm a big boy, I can take it. But the thing is, as I said in the thread, both 451 and 456 are rightly considered classics. So I'm personally good with either one winning. Beyond that, they are extreme representations of two of the things that make OOTS OOTS: Plot and humor.

By that I mean, they are pretty much on diamertic opposite scales of that continum that The Order of the Stick operates on, yet they both work. They both represent aspects of the greater whole of The Order of the Stick, to put it another way.

And it's not like the dramatic strips haven't been winning throughout this little trip down memory lane. Many of them have. I haven't done an analysis lately to see if which is trumping which more often when it comes to funny v drama, but I suspect its fairly balanced.

All that being said, never let it be said that I don't take the pulse of the community. I've been reading some feedback about people having to cast 'tough' votes and/or being displeased when the one strip came up just a bit short. So I've decided that when we eventually get to Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes, I'm going to mix things up a little bit. Partially to address things that have been talked about as this version of the Stick Awards have been taking place, but also because doing the same thing over and over again gets boring.

Now I'm not ready to say how I'm going to mix things up quite yet, as I haven't finalized things (plus it's over a year away anyways), but I do think that it is safe to say that I will very probably be changing the format of the Awards to let people vote for more than one strip.

Further details will have to wait, I'm afraid. Always leave 'em wanting more and all that.

[Gift Jeraff]

When are The Stick Awards II ending? At strip #1000?

And I have to say it's amusing how the discussion before the thread was bumped was me confused about people voting for plot, and now it's about people confused about other people voting for comedy over plot.

[Porthos]

When are The Stick Awards II ending? At strip #1000?

Call it a 75% probability or so, yes. I'm also almost certain to give the Stick Awards a bit of a break after the Best of the Thousand tournament is over. Say a couple of months. Maybe a skosh longer. I want to give things time to rest a bit. Give time for the forum community to evolve a bit more (one of the reasons for rerunning the Stick Awards is that the crowd that was here in 2007 is different than the one that was here in 2013. And will presumably be different from the ones here in the future).

I also want time for more comics to appear. But that's a subject that can only be treaded upon lightly, so consider that statement to be the only one I'll make in regards to that.

[Bird]

So I've decided that when we eventually get to Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes:

You like to play long games, cousin, don't you?

[Porthos]

You like to play long games, cousin, don't you?

Best kind, IMO.

And it's not exactly like I've made it a secret that I plan to, eventually, do a third version of this.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

So I've decided that when we eventually get to Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes,

That movie lends itself so well to being parodied, doesn't it? Pity that that IV doesn't work quite as well.

[137beth]

Still several months before my all-time favorite strip comes up for a vote...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Still several months before my all-time favorite strip comes up for a vote...

Which one is that? Somewhere in the 600s?

[137beth]

The most powerful one.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The most powerful one.

Yeah, that's a pretty good one to have as a favorite. Definitely a powerful scene.

[Jasdoif]

So I've decided that when we eventually get to Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes,

That movie lends itself so well to being parodied, doesn't it? Pity that that IV doesn't work quite as well.

That'd be "Stick Awards IV: The Vote-yage Home", I think.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That'd be "Stick Awards IV: The Vote-yage Home", I think.

Oh, that's good. Then for five, we could have Stick Awards V: The Final Vote.
I may be thinking a little far ahead here...

[Killer Angel]

Oh, that's good. Then for five, we could have Stick Awards V: The Final Vote.
I may be thinking a little far ahead here...

Then think great.
S.A. V: The Vote that will end all votes

[Porthos]

That'd be "Stick Awards IV: The Vote-yage Home", I think.

*throws popcorn at Jasdoif*

More seriously, if I was insane enough to run a fourth version of the SA and if I could think of a way to keep it fresh and if I wanted to start a running gag with having 'Vote' in the title (which is absolutely no sure thing since there are so many films/books/other things to pick on that don't lend itself naturally to a Vote gag), I'd probably go with something like:

The Stick Awards IV: A New Vote

But even that hypothetical is a loooooooong way off.

---

One thing I would like to do is run a final Stick Awards when the comic is actually over. My only concern is whether or not the forum community would stick around for the time it would take to run it. Even at a 'faster pace' clip it'd take months. Thankfully that is something I can mull over for a decent amount of time.

[ChristianSt]

One thing I would like to do is run a final Stick Awards when the comic is actually over. My only concern is whether or not the forum community would stick around for the time it would take to run it. Even at a 'faster pace' clip it'd take months. Thankfully that is something I can mull over for a decent amount of time.

Can't really say how it will come, but I wouldn't expect the forum community to vanish. It also depends on what happens after OotS (OotS-related side projects etc...). But that is nothing to plan around now ;)

But before that, how about The Meta Stick Awards: Your favourite Stick Awards?

[Bird]

But before that, how about The Meta Stick Awards: Your favourite Stick Awards?

I'm reminded of one of my friends, who wanted to take a personality test in which she would indicate what her favorite personality test was, and the personality test would use this information about her favorite personality test to tell her something about her personality.

A dramatic new horizon of navel gazing.

[137beth]

I was considering a tournament for favorite OOTS characters with exactly two appearances.
But then I realized that some of them might get third appearances while it was running, and new ones would show up. And then I'd have to do a sequel with the new list...