Kerbals in Spaaaaace!

[Wookieetank]

Eek. Error in communication. I was asking Wookieetank (who gets bonus points for spelling Wookiee correctly, bytheway... you don't even know how many times I see it with one 'e') if he checked to make sure he had all the criteria met at the time of activation for the given contract, not whether you had to have all or only some of them to complete the contract; that I figured out quickfast in the game.

My inner Star Wars fan dies a little everytime someone spells Wookiee wrong. I also didn't like the first level of Force Unleashed the first too much either

Back on topic, far as I could tell all the requirements were met, everything was checked off and whatnot. Didn't get a chance to play around more with it yet (visiting with relatives last night), but I'm planning on doing a file integrity check this afternoon before I start playing again. "Worst" case senario I'll crash something spectacularly into the mission control building to make myself feel better.

[Peelee]

My inner Star Wars fan dies a little everytime someone spells Wookiee wrong. I also didn't like the first level of Force Unleashed the first too much either

Back on topic, far as I could tell all the requirements were met, everything was checked off and whatnot. Didn't get a chance to play around more with it yet (visiting with relatives last night), but I'm planning on doing a file integrity check this afternoon before I start playing again. "Worst" case senario I'll crash something spectacularly into the mission control building to make myself feel better.

I got all the secret achievements on that level on my first playthrough without even knowing they existed. Even Bossk. I just couldn't resist. Now if they can only finish the trilogy....

uhhh, imean, Kerbally things! Yeah, that sucks. I'd say submit a bug report to Squad, with a screencap or video if you can manage. Though I kinda hope you can't recreate it.

[Gnoman]

Not sure if this is supposed to happen, but all of my fuel sources (tanks and SRBs) have two quantites of each fuel listed, the second of which never goes down. This means that I recover a large amount of fuel every mission.

[Eirala]

Not sure if this is supposed to happen, but all of my fuel sources (tanks and SRBs) have two quantites of each fuel listed, the second of which never goes down. This means that I recover a large amount of fuel every mission.

That sounds strange. Do you use any mods? Also, could you show us a screenshot of that?

[Peelee]

Not sure if this is supposed to happen, but all of my fuel sources (tanks and SRBs) have two quantites of each fuel listed, the second of which never goes down. This means that I recover a large amount of fuel every mission.

Yeah, I'm intrigued too. All my SRBs only have one fuel source.

[Gnoman]

Spoiler

Show

I had a couple of mods a couple of versions ago, but I've deleted and redownloaded my entire game since then.

[Eirala]

I had a couple of mods a couple of versions ago, but I've deleted and redownloaded my entire game since then.

Hm. There are not many causes for problems that come to mind besides mod. Did you start a new career with the 0.24 update? Also, did you make sure all old game files were deleted?

If that doesn't work the problem has to be your install, so i would just try to redownload it again, and if that doesn't work contact the support because i have no idea what else it could be.

BTW, the embedded image does not work, though the link to the image does work.

[Peelee]

....when you say the second never goes down, does that mean the game reads it as fuel, uses if as fuel, but doesn't take it away? Or is it like a fuel tank in a bag of holding, in that its there on paper, but you don't need to worry about mass or anything with it?

[Gnoman]

It never gets used at all. The first tank drains as normal, and the engine flames out as it would any other time. I simply recieve a full load of fuel for every SRB or fuel tank I recover.

I'm sure that I deleted everything when I reverted the game to vanilla, and I started a new career. I'll try wiping and reinstalling again now that I know for sure it's wrong.

[Wookieetank]

So found out part of my issues with the missions, was using the wrong parts for the testing... My other problem I'm having is activating a liquid engine between 2400m and 8100m while traveling at 400m/s+. Thats a terribly short timeframe, and usually takes me till at least 6000m before I can get up to speed giving me even less time. Blech. Decided to go play Dungeons of Dredmor at that point.

[Eirala]

My other problem I'm having is activating a liquid engine between 2400m and 8100m while traveling at 400m/s+. Thats a terribly short timeframe, and usually takes me till at least 6000m before I can get up to speed giving me even less time. Blech. Decided to go play Dungeons of Dredmor at that point.

Yeah that's really hard. One trick for missions like that is fly higher first, and then accelerate downwards. You get both higher accelerations through gravity and also less air friction, meaning significantly higher velocities.

[factotum]

Either that, or stick a bunch of solid boosters on the rocket--those can impart monstrous accelerations!

[Wookieetank]

Either that, or stick a bunch of solid boosters on the rocket--those can impart monstrous accelerations!

I've got 7 of the small ones currently, which does get me to speed, just leaves little room for error in activating liquid rockets. Haven't tried the larger solid boosters yet since I just unlocked them, so hopefully they'll do the trick.

[Rakaydos]

The "high speed" tests are actually reentry tests- they're relatively easy to hit on your way down.

[RCgothic]

If you don't have any RCS thrusters then your command modules come with monopropellant but no way to use it. Is that what you mean?

Anyway, I've been finding that the 'Career' path tech tree isn't terribly compatible with the 'probes first, then manned' design philosophy. I thought I'd enjoy trying out the Remote Tech mod, but right now it's crashing my game I think. And The .2.4.1 update broke Deadly Re-Entry.

[Peelee]

If you don't have any RCS thrusters then your command modules come with monopropellant but no way to use it.

Well, in theory, once the game is fully complete the monopropellant in the command module (and from other tanks, if needed) would be used to refuel the Kerbonaut jetpacks, since as long as you have a command module to refill it, it's basically an infinite fuel cheat, in 5-unit pods (for lack of a better word).

Also, on that note, is there any actual unit that mass is measured in on Kerbin? I heard somewhere it was in tons, but unless the jetpack either uses a different unit or liquid is measured in volume rather than mass, thats clearly wrong.

[Jimorian]

Also, on that note, is there any actual unit that mass is measured in on Kerbin? I heard somewhere it was in tons, but unless the jetpack either uses a different unit or liquid is measured in volume rather than mass, thats clearly wrong.

The mass measurements of parts in KSP are in metric tonnes. Which if you want to actually use math, makes certain calculation very easy with the way thrust is measured in kilo-Newtons. Fuel is in kilograms? [quick wiki search] OK, doesn't outright say, but the sidebar says it masses 5kg/l, so I assume the units are liters. (I'm on my laptop right now so can't fire up the game to see if that makes sense). It does say liquid fuel and oxidizer have the same mass/volume ratio.

[Keris]

Fuel is in kilograms? [quick wiki search] OK, doesn't outright say, but the sidebar says it masses 5kg/l, so I assume the units are liters.

Though that is with the tooltip caveat of 'Assuming that 1 unit = 1 l', which is a pretty big assumption. The nebulous 'unit' KSP uses for fuel volumes doesn't even seem to be self consistent: LiquidFuel and IntakeAir have the same density, which makes no sense to me.

In any case, the game defines MonoPropellant as having a density of 0.004 metric tons per unit, so 5 units weigh 20kg.

[Jimorian]

Today is the launch of my video tutorial series: How To Contract! in KSP 0.24. This is the followup to the surprisingly successful How To Science! videos I had up for 0.23, where the first in that series has over 11,000 views, and comes in above Scott Manley's science tutorial when you search "Kerbal Space Program Science" in YouTube.

Anyway, it's the same concept, building reasonable spacecraft and taking on missions that are easy to accomplish for the amount of tech and skill a player should have at that stage of the game. In this case, there's also balancing a budget to keep in mind, but just like with science, it doesn't take heroic complicated missions to keep the funds flowing!

Also, while I personally like the "chipmunk" style I've been using for my Kerbal Speed Program series, I realize it annoys some people, so I'm leaving the choice to the viewer by uploading both a "Kerbal Voice" and a "Normal" version of each episode.

Episode 1, Normal
Episode 1, Kerbal Voice

[RCgothic]

So I've been playing around with Remote Tech 2, and I've been surprised at how simple a rocket to put a relay Sat into 625km was. Figures below are half-remembered from my hand calc:

Payload:

Cubic probe body,
Kerbal Engineer flight computer,
2Mm Omni transmitter,
OX-4L 1x6 deployable solar panel,
Z-100 Battery pack,
2x RCS blocks,
50litre monopoly tank.

Primary mission is to form part of a 3-Sat relay network in a 650km equatorial orbit, for which the 2Mm Omni is fine. The distance sat-sat is about 1.1 Mm, and the maximum distance to KSC is .65Mm, so the transmitter is adequate.

Orbital period is about 77mins, Of which 12 mins in darkness. Required battery capacity is about 48, so the Z-100 has that covered. The 1x6 solar array produces many times the required amount over it's 65 mins in sunlight.

The RCS provides enough delta v for orbital corrections and end of service deorbit burn.

To get all that into orbit, I don't yet have remote command capability, so a manned launcher was required.

Launcher:
2nd stage (For KLO circularization, Hohmann transfer to operational altitude and Deorbit burn.)
TR-2C Tiny Stack decoupler to launch relay
Mk1 pod, Jeb Kerman, photovoltaic panel and 2radial chutes.
TR18A Small Stack Decoupler.
Small fairing base and comic fairing.
LV909 and FL-T200 tank.
Approx 1100 delta v

1st stage + boosters. (To reach KLO and partial secularization)
3x FL-T800 tanks.
1x LV-T30 Liquid Fuel Engine.
2x RT-10 Solid Boosters + Radial decouplers (thrust limited)
2x AV-R8 Winglets.
Approx 4500 delta v.

Easily the simplest rocket I've made to successfully complete it's mission! Payload was delivered to target altitude with eccentricity circular to .000% and inclination to .007 degrees, relay operational and Jeb returned safely.
Now I just have to get the other two up there in the correct phase!

[RCgothic]

Equatorial 3-Sat constellation complete! Orbital period are correct to .5sec out of 77min, so they should stay in formation for a while and have plenty of fuel left for adjustments if they don't.

I have tiny blind spots at the poles still, so I'm putting another 3-Sat constellation in a polar orbit. The difference is that now I have relay coverage I don't need a manned mission to do the launching. Replacing the command module with a probe core and antennae allowed me to use interstage fairings to launch all three sats on the same launcher as before!

[RCgothic]

If I were doing this again I think I'd pick a 750km orbit - gives 6.4 degrees of allowable phase error compared to just 0.7 for a 650km orbit before Kerbin breaks line of sight. Oh well, it was an interesting lesson in accuracy.

Anyway, some pics!

Atlas 1-3 Launcher, for placing the initial sats.


Atlas 4 launcher that placed the polar trio:


The relay Sat:


The finished constellation:


My next projects will be placement of LKO scansats in polar orbits to map Kerbin, and work out what system I'm going to need to link Kerbin and The Mun.

[Jimorian]

Man, I love the idea of Remote Tech, but I'm not sure I'd have the patience to put everything into place, despite my usual penchant for infrastructure in games like this. I may still RP the satellite network in my next full playthrough, though.

[Keris]

If I were doing this again I think I'd pick a 750km orbit - gives 6.4 degrees of allowable phase error compared to just 0.7 for a 650km orbit before Kerbin breaks line of sight. Oh well, it was an interesting lesson in accuracy.

I often had the opposite problem with my satellites - I'd put them as far out as I could to both make sure they got LoS and try and keep my signal envelope as large as possible, but end up brushing against the range limitations instead. 800km up seemed a comfortable middle ground for me, at least up until I was able to upgrade my network with the 5Mm omnis instead.

My next projects will be placement of LKO scansats in polar orbits to map Kerbin, and work out what system I'm going to need to link Kerbin and The Mun.

If you come up with an elegant solution for Munar communication, please let us know. I'm never really satisfied with my Kerbin-Mun links. In the past I've used pairs of relays 180° apart zipping around Kerbin and the Mun about as low as they can go, though for my next network I'm thinking of having a large receiver landed on the Mun (since it's tidally locked to Kerbin) and some relays set up where the Mun's Lagrangian points would usually be.

Man, I love the idea of Remote Tech, but I'm not sure I'd have the patience to put everything into place, despite my usual penchant for infrastructure in games like this. I may still RP the satellite network in my next full playthrough, though.

Personally, I've found setting up satellite constellations one of the most satisfying things to do in KSP. It's really pleasing to watch them, and the lines of communication between them, spin around and around once you're done. And it's not that difficult to get a set-up that's sufficient to communicate with all your near Kerbin activity: as RCgothic's demonstrated, you only need to put a trio of satellites up there to get near total coverage of LKO and then later probes can just piggy-back on that.

[RCgothic]

I think I'd feel bad about abusing the game's patched conics to place sats in pseudo-Lagrangian positions. I was probably going to go with the pair 180 apart in Kerbin orbit and three over The Mum all with dish antennae pointed back at Kerbin.

In the mean time, I'm on the point of launching my Kerbin observation satellite. Rather than individual satellites each with its own instrument, I've managed to cram 3 onto a structural fuselage with a probe core, batteries, solar panels, a flight computer and monoprop tank/RCS.

I've modified one of the Atlas launchers from above. Because I'm only going to LKO I don't need a second stage. By circularizing with RCS it eliminates the need to deorbit the launcher, so I've eliminated the launcher's probe core as well. Nor does it require boosters either. The resultant weight savings allow me top achieve orbit with two FL-T800 tanks, an LV-T30 engine and the satellite's on-board RCS. Minimalist!

The instruments include an Altimeter, a Biome Scanner, and a Satscan Maptraq module. Anyone know what the Maptraq's actually supposed to do?

Edit: Nevermind. Sticking them all on one craft wasn't a great idea, and I probably need to get up above LKO.

[RCgothic]

My new multispectral scanner to map Kerbin's biomes:

It's the same basic layout as the relay sat, but it eats electricity so the Z100 has been upgraded to a pair of Z-200s, roughly 4x the capacity. the solar array capacity has also been doubled, which turned out to be a slight case of overkill, but I was having a lot of trouble making it to orbit on a night launch.

The launcher is kept as simple as possible:

The photvoltaic panels turned out to be redundant as I didn't get out of the night side of kerbin before separation. 2000 worth of FL-T tanks, some winglets and an advanced inline reaction ring. I've found a decent quantity of control to be worth the slight DV reduction.

This time I went for a direct insertion to 250km altitude. The launcher would return without a de-orbit burn, and the sat would circularise itself using its onboard RCS. This saves a second stage engine and probe core on the launcher. It's my policy to deorbit as much stuff as possible in order to avoid debris issues down the line.

Next mission is an altimetry sensor to 750km, which i should be able to launch using basically the same setup.

[Eirala]

Why i love KSP: Almost no limit to what you can do, be it rockets or even planes.

I just flew around the Earth in Real Solar System in a plane, "only" took me 7 hours. Though it was still in easy mode without Advanced Jet Engines.

[Binks]

(Not quite thread necro, but close enough that I had to check the rules :P)

Just started playing with the new career mode and hit a snag. I ended up getting a kerbal on Mun and back to orbit but he doesn't have enough fuel to make it home (35 delta-v left in the tank, a bit short of the 200ish required to de-orbit the Mun). I'd rather not abandon all of the science on his ship (and getting him off to another craft would be a huge pain), so figured I'd make a tug to go out and dock with him to bring him home. Original idea was to just build something that would lock with the craft by virtue of being a flat surface with spaced out T-800 tanks that would fit around the center and could give it the necessary acceleration to get home, then I stumbled across the advanced grabbing unit which is supposed to be able to grab anything and basically dock with it, which would just let me dump the fuel onboard and not have to worry about tricky center of mass stuff.

The only problem I'm having is that the thing doesn't work :/. I've armed it, intercepted, matched velocities, and approached to within a few meters. I bump into the stranded ship, claw extended and hitting first, as perpendicular as I can, and nothing happens, I just bounce right off. Tried at all sorts of velocities (0.4 to 2 m/s relative to target) and nothing works. I've emptied my RCS fuel trying to make this work and must have tried 10-15 times before just giving up and logging off for now. I still have plenty of liquid fuel (almost triple what is needed for the return trip) but there's no way I can pseudo-dock with the craft I built for this transfer, and I really don't want to have to start from scratch on this plan after all that work (took me a few hours to get this close as I'm still new at docking in general).

Does anyone know how this claw works? Am I missing a step or something? Any tips? Thanks.

[Jimorian]

Does anyone know how this claw works? Am I missing a step or something? Any tips? Thanks.

I do know it won't dock with a variety of parts, including capsules and engines. And giving it a think, it might *only* be fuel tanks that it can latch onto. Hmm, after checking the wiki, it doesn't talk at all about what parts are grabable, so for our purposes, assume you need to get to a tank without interference from other parts. If this isn't the problem, then I'm not sure what's up.

[factotum]

I thought the grabber only worked with asteroids? Or am I thinking of a different part?

As for losing the science: you can retrieve the science from the capsule with a Kerbal on EVA, then put that science into another capsule with the same Kerbal and return *that* to Kerbin. All you'd lose then would be the science from any experiments that were attached to the original ship, I think.