Kerbals in Spaaaaace!

[AgentPaper]

So, my wife and I had date night last night, and we are usually poor so we get to see maybe two movies a year in theater. We have had our eye on Gravity for some time because of the director.

Am I the only person who, while watching this amazing film, kept visualizing Kerbals in place of Clooney and Bullock?

I haven't seen it, but I can tell you now, if I ever do, that's all I'll ever see.

I'd yell at you for ruining the movie for me, but I think we both know that everything is better with Kerbals.

[Jimorian]

I haven't seen it, but I can tell you now, if I ever do, that's all I'll ever see.

I'd yell at you for ruining the movie for me, but I think we both know that everything is better with Kerbals.

Here's hoping that Nassault makes a Kerbal version of Gravity!

[nooblade]

I saw Apollo 13 recently, that was a neat movie. If Gravity doesn't have anything on that, then meh.

I've made so many notes during my own experiments with this system that I think I'm going to make a video tutorial/guide for it. But definitely aimed at the "average" player in that it won't be about maxing out points in a single uber-mission, but a nice steady progression with basic rocket models that are easy to fly. Just as an example, with just putting a bare capsule on the launch pad for the first mission, it's possible to get 30 science points.

Sounds neat, I always like hearing different people try to explain rocket science and astrophysics.

For the capsule-only first mission, IiRC I only get 12 points without moving the thing. Doubling that without rolling the capsule around would be a good thing. Otherwise I'd rather stick with the first upgrade only or maybe use a limited jump rocket.

[factotum]

For the capsule-only first mission, IiRC I only get 12 points without moving the thing.

I thought you'd get more than that, but I just tried it, and putting a capsule on the pad, crew report, EVA report, surface sample, recover got me 12.9 science...I'd love to know how you can get 30!

[Jimorian]

I thought you'd get more than that, but I just tried it, and putting a capsule on the pad, crew report, EVA report, surface sample, recover got me 12.9 science...I'd love to know how you can get 30!

OK. (spoilered for those who like experimenting on their own)

Spoiler

Show

1. Crew Report from inside capsule: 1.5
2. EVA, while hanging on ladder do EVA Report (flying at Kerbin's shores (this may be a bug, but staying on the ladder of any landed craft for an EVA report on Kerbin counts as "flying" in that biome, which is counted separately from actually being on the ground)): 5.6 (now get back in)
3. EVA again, let go of ladder, EVA Report (Launch Pad): 2.4
4. Sample (Launch Pad) 9.0 (now get back in again)
5. EVA, walk down to ground just away from Launch Pad, EVA Report (from KSC): 2.4
6. Sample (KSC): 9
7. Climb back in, recover vehicle.

TOTAL SCIENCE: 29.9

If you wanted to take the time to walk your kerbal down to the water, another EVA and sample would probably put your first mission over 40 points.

[Derthric]

Overall, I am loving this update. And not just for the science upgrade but I seem to see less noodling of my rockets(though I might just have gotten better at building them) and smoother frame rates and load times too.

My one gripe is that with the inclusion of Crew, EVA and soil reports, it is scientifically disadvantageous to make unmanned probes since you miss out on that much extra science on those missions. I guess I just wish the unmanned probes had their own science generation like a basic camera or telemetry info.

Also has anyone done the math comparing the transmission devices? From what little I did it seems the high end ones just aren't worth the power draw.

[gomipile]

Also has anyone done the math comparing the transmission devices? From what little I did it seems the high end ones just aren't worth the power draw.

Agreed. The first antenna you get is rather nice. If you have two of them and two experiments, you can click back and forth between the experiments and keep both antennas transmitting constantly with just a little extra waiting. Three antennas would be able to transmit faster than I can keep up with.

[Jimorian]

Steam's having a sale on KSP this weekend, 40% off. So if you've been on the fence, now would be a good time to check it out.

[Trekkin]

My one gripe is that with the inclusion of Crew, EVA and soil reports, it is scientifically disadvantageous to make unmanned probes since you miss out on that much extra science on those missions. I guess I just wish the unmanned probes had their own science generation like a basic camera or telemetry info.

This. Oh goodness, this.

I love the new science, but the mechanics are just weird. No, don't read the thermometer on the Mun, bring it back with you. Same with the capsule. Moving rocks from one capsule to another is crazy talk. Mostly I just don't like how the asymmetry of the lab module makes it so awkward to work with, though. Who put all the doors on one side?

I can't wait for experiments to be a moveable resource, like fuel, so I can finally do Apollo relatively faithfully -- or, more likely, hit all the Mun biomes in far fewer goes and transfer all the data into one capsule for the trip home.

[AgentPaper]

Yeah. I don't know why they made it so important to bring stuff back with you. If you look at all the NASA missions, the only ones that came back to earth were the ones that really needed to, which basically meant manned missions and that one asteroid sample mission. Other than that, it's just pictures and data being streamed back to home.

I like the idea of having high-profile manned missions to get rock samples and crew reports, and requiring crew to use labs and such for extra science, but unmanned missions should be a viable choice as well, especially early on. Instead, you don't have unmanned modules to begin with.

[factotum]

Let's be honest here, the entire tech tree in career mode is a bit odd...for instance, apparently the Kerbals developed advanced rocketry before they ever considered the possibility of wings or jet engines? Thing is, there are a bunch of other oddities as well, like the fact you can get a spaceplane to near orbital velocities using a single jet engine, or a Kerbal EVA suit has something like 25 times the delta-V capability of NASA's Manned Manoeuvring Unit space suit...some of these will presumably stay in place because it's a game and needs to be fun rather than realistic, and some will no doubt be ironed out as they develop the game further.

[AmberVael]

So, I've been tinkering around in career mode recently. I hadn't played the game for quite some time, so science and what not was new to me. I've been doing some one shot probe shenanigans to max out my research, but other than that I've just been testing out various random ideas, and trying to get planes to work well. Planes are hard!

That said, I managed to come up with a small, simple design that works very nicely, which I have affectionately named the Stub. I think it is a pretty neat.

Also, Jeb likes to ride on top of it. What the hell, Jeb.

[Wookieetank]

Finally picked this up this past weekend after getting to play with a friend's copy. So far haven't made it to orbit yet, but I did manage to hit an interesting bug. While working on a rocket design and rearanging parts I somehow went from 12 solid state boosters to 128 solidstate boosters on top of each other . Seeing the opportunity for great amusement, I save this and then go to lanuch it. This crazy ship managed to get to 1000m/s in atmo and ended up getting exit flames :O . Once I ran out of fuel (at 120Km or some such) I advance to stage 2. After much lag and many explosions later I have a ball of empty booster rockets flying off every which way with only my capsule and a parachutte intact (out of an intended 3 more stages of liquid fuel boosters).

[Hawriel]

Finally picked this up this past weekend after getting to play with a friend's copy. So far haven't made it to orbit yet, but I did manage to hit an interesting bug. While working on a rocket design and rearanging parts I somehow went from 12 solid state boosters to 128 solidstate boosters on top of each other . Seeing the opportunity for great amusement, I save this and then go to lanuch it. This crazy ship managed to get to 1000m/s in atmo and ended up getting exit flames :O . Once I ran out of fuel (at 120Km or some such) I advance to stage 2. After much lag and many explosions later I have a ball of empty booster rockets flying off every which way with only my capsule and a parachutte intact (out of an intended 3 more stages of liquid fuel boosters).

You now have full understanding of Kerbal Space Program. Jeb will be proud.

[Jimorian]

Hmm, looks like the gravity detector is somewhat bugged for transmitting science. For example, I was in orbit over Ike where it said I had 420 science available, and when I transmitted with the 60% efficiency of that, I only get 84 science instead of 252. However, it still lowers the potential on the next iteration as if it had transmitted the full 252, and only 190 is available for round 2.

When I land, I'll keep the science aboard, take it back to Kerbin, and see what happens there.

EDIT: and I finally find an explanation.
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science
At the bottom of the page is a link to the bug report. It seems that the amount of science I'm getting is what is correct, but because a multiplier used to make the transmission more "expensive" in electricity isn't part of the equation for what it tells you, it shows much more than is really available.

[Derthric]

Hmm, looks like the gravity detector is somewhat bugged for transmitting science. For example, I was in orbit over Ike where it said I had 420 science available, and when I transmitted with the 60% efficiency of that, I only get 84 science instead of 252. However, it still lowers the potential on the next iteration as if it had transmitted the full 252, and only 190 is available for round 2.

When I land, I'll keep the science aboard, take it back to Kerbin, and see what happens there.

EDIT: and I finally find an explanation.
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science
At the bottom of the page is a link to the bug report. It seems that the amount of science I'm getting is what is correct, but because a multiplier used to make the transmission more "expensive" in electricity isn't part of the equation for what it tells you, it shows much more than is really available.

I encountered a similar problem with the atmospheric nose cone sensor as well. The numbers in the report were absurdly high and then the actual science sent was at about 10% of what the report said.

From what was posted for the next update it looks like science will be getting an overhaul and experiments won't be endlessly repeatable. But if the lab module functions like I think it will, space stations and motherships will be useful for more than refueling.

And a question about mods. What mods do you guys use? Right now I only have mechjeb (insert obligatory "You're cheating" reply here). But was thinking about some of the others. Any recommendations?

[razark]

And a question about mods. What mods do you guys use? Right now I only have mechjeb (insert obligatory "You're cheating" reply here). But was thinking about some of the others. Any recommendations?

A few of the mods I'm using:

Chatterer. Adds fake radio traffic to vessels. It doesn't change the gameplay at all, but it adds life.

Visual Enhancements. Again, no gameplay changes, but it adds atmosphere. Moving clouds, specifically. Also adds lights to the night side of Kerbin, so you're no longer orbiting a lifeless globe.

kOS. Scriptable computer interface. Write your own programs to control your ships.

RemoteTech. Requires that you set up communications networks. Unmanned probes need a path back to mission control, and it takes time to send commands. In campaign, you'll need a network path back to transmit science.

Docking Alignment Indicator. Displays all the info you need to dock in one simple screen.

Kerbal Alarm Clock. Set alarms for maneuver nodes, apo/periapsis, SOI changes, transfer windows, etc. Makes it much easier to manage multiple flights at a time.

[Jimorian]

After missing the 0.22 window entirely, I've started a 0.23 Let's Play series that's mostly tutorial on how to get enough science to unlock the entire tech tree without resorting to Scott Manley-ish heroic builds and missions.

In Episode 1, I complete 5 easy missions to unlock up through half of the tier-4 parts (I'm counting the starter tier as #1).

[factotum]

After missing the 0.22 window entirely, I've started a 0.23 Let's Play series that's mostly tutorial on how to get enough science to unlock the entire tech tree without resorting to Scott Manley-ish heroic builds and missions.

Some of the changes in 0.23 were designed to prevent Scott Manley-ish behaviour anyway, like the fact transmitted science is capped at 40% of the total so you can't just transmit spam...

[Jimorian]

Some of the changes in 0.23 were designed to prevent Scott Manley-ish behaviour anyway, like the fact transmitted science is capped at 40% of the total so you can't just transmit spam...

Yeah, though having that kind of tradeoff was probably already in the planning, because it never really made sense that you could get as much science from something like a sample by sending data compared to bringing it back.

I just ran a test on one thing, though. If you transmit data, while you are capped from just sending a different ship/experiment to transmit again, if you send a retrieval mission afterward, you can still get the full allotment of science from that overall experiment/location (whatever value is left subject to the same kind of retrieval decay as before the transmission).

This means you can send out a fleet of probes to get some early science with the lower cap value, but when you need the big numbers for that last tier, you can follow up with a round-trip mission to sniff out the rest of it.

EDIT: Episode 2 of How To Science! is up. I demonstrate the above principle on the launchpad, then send my first ship into orbit to show how to get EVA reports from each biome.

[Jimorian]

Episode 3 is posted, and 4 is uploaded, but unlisted for now, but since I like you guys...

In Episode 3 I clean up most of the remainder of Kerbin's science points in near and high orbit, and set the stage to visit Mun and Minmus.

And in Episode 4, I fly past both Mun and Minmus, and collect enough science from orbit to unlock all of the 90 science point nodes on the tech tree.

Next up is a series of landings on Mun to its various biomes to collect science, then to Minmus for the same thing before heading out to the planets.

[nooblade]

I remember hearing about this. I would've never thought that being on the ladder while landed counted for the science "over x biome". Neat tutorials. I skipped over some of the bits in freefall around Kerbin.

Still I wish there were more fun to it. I'm glad that for entertainment value (crash, crash!) you won't have the easiest landings with the best landing legs or a two stage lander with docking ports (not that that works for science last time I checked).

But then there will be long-duration interplanetary missions. Speaking of which, I haven't followed anyone in KSP for a little bit, but I had gathered there were some good mods for making Kerbals require food and air supply and temperature control and things? I wonder if my wimpy computer could handle such things.

[AgentPaper]

If you like career mode, but feel like it's not challenging enough, you could give Better Than Starting Manned a try. It focuses on rebalancing the tech tree to challenge experienced players, so you actually have to struggle to complete enough research to unlock the next tier of stuff, which gives you more possibilities, which you then use to unlock the next tier, and so on. It's still a bit in it's early stages (the plan is to integrate a bunch of mods, but for now just FAR), but it's very fun and gives a real challenging aspect to the game. You won't be unlocking half of the tech-tree with just one mission, and in fact it will often take multiple missions to unlock a single research. (And that's not including the many, many failed attempts)

[Jimorian]

I remember hearing about this. I would've never thought that being on the ladder while landed counted for the science "over x biome". Neat tutorials. I skipped over some of the bits in freefall around Kerbin.

Still I wish there were more fun to it. I'm glad that for entertainment value (crash, crash!) you won't have the easiest landings with the best landing legs or a two stage lander with docking ports (not that that works for science last time I checked).

But then there will be long-duration interplanetary missions. Speaking of which, I haven't followed anyone in KSP for a little bit, but I had gathered there were some good mods for making Kerbals require food and air supply and temperature control and things? I wonder if my wimpy computer could handle such things.

I know Scott Manley is using the life support mod (not sure what it's called exactly, but he said there's a list in his Reddit thread for all the mods he's using, Google would probably find it for you) for his latest interstellar series. Aside from the actual intersteller mod, the other one he's using that sounds interesting makes it so that you need a network of communication satellites otherwise you lose control of your ships (I can't recall if that's only probes, or also crewed ships as well).

I'm really drawn to the idea of having to build some kind of infrastructure like that, plus stations, mining operations, etc. When all of that finally gets added to the game natively, I think it's really going to be great (then imagine the mods that will be built on top of THAT!).

0.23 has some game engine optimization, but I'm hearing conflicting reports on how well it works. Seems that the biggest difference is in large part-count ships on good newer computers. I haven't built anything yet that tests that theory.

And yeah, the moon landings in the next episode should be "interesting", in that I really don't have a lot of landings under my belt. I think I have a decent lander I can use from my 0.22 run, but the lifter I have now suffers from lack of power in the last push to Kerbin orbit. I'll probably record them late tonight.

[Wookieetank]

After my first 3 Munar attempts ended up orbiting the sun, I managed my first Munar orbit and return trip. About a week ago I managed my first munar "landing" at 500m/s (mighta run out of fuel on that one...maybe) XD

[dethkruzer]

I just took a moment to play around in career mode. just returned from my munar exploration mission. it took my three tries to get the Munar Ark III into kerbin orbit, from there on all went smoothly.

in others news, VTOLs.

[Peelee]

After my first two Mün landings (in which my Kerbals totally didn't die), I decided to change tactics and try landing on the day side of the rock. That was the first week of December. Two more Kerbalnauts were stranded even after I could see the ground, due to tall, thin landing modules not being very stable with any lateral velocity at landing.

Getting them off now. Only two remaining. I'm so happy there aren't food or oxygen requirements yet.

New goal: learn to perform an orbital rendezvous and start work on a space station!

[DeusMortuusEst]

Started playing this last week and so far I'm mostly messing around in sandbox mode. Right now I'm working on a large space station, but I'm having some troubles with the design. I want the outer part of the station to be a circle made of M-2x2 Structural Panels and I've managed to construct the ring, but getting it up proved to be harder than I thought. Anyone got any ideas on designing the thing so that it doesn't fall apart on the way up?

[dethkruzer]

Started playing this last week and so far I'm mostly messing around in sandbox mode. Right now I'm working on a large space station, but I'm having some troubles with the design. I want the outer part of the station to be a circle made of M-2x2 Structural Panels and I've managed to construct the ring, but getting it up proved to be harder than I thought. Anyone got any ideas on designing the thing so that it doesn't fall apart on the way up?

well, structural components are generally among the toughest pieces to break. If you have some good docking skills, is put th ring into three or four symmetrical pieces, and make it capable of linking up via docking ports. This way you could take it up into space in pieces, and the assemble it once you get there. Problems with this would include hving to make several flights,and the fact that you would need to line the pieces up just right, or the won't interlock.

[Peelee]

Started playing this last week and so far I'm mostly messing around in sandbox mode. Right now I'm working on a large space station, but I'm having some troubles with the design. I want the outer part of the station to be a circle made of M-2x2 Structural Panels and I've managed to construct the ring, but getting it up proved to be harder than I thought. Anyone got any ideas on designing the thing so that it doesn't fall apart on the way up?

I'm loving the career mode, if for no other reason than it forces you to really learn the capabilities of each new gadget as you unlock them. So it handicaps you at first, but the long run really pays off, since I have a better feel of what will and won't work for certain builds, plus a few little tricks I've picked up along the way.

Of course, that's just me. The game is basically really pretty graphics with a baseball bat that beats you over the head until you learn physics, so I try to take the nice, progressive learning route.

Yes, I just gave no actual information that will help with your immediate space station problem. For that, well... when in doubt, add more boosters, I always say.