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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    This build is meant as an replacement to the fighter out of 3.5 core. I like the build more than the one out the book, but I have no idea of all of it is balanced, and especially if the combat styles are a bit equal to each other. Please be brute in your comments, because it’s goin to be very hard to get all of the toolt right.

    Also, for reasons not clear to me, my spell check tries to correct parts of this into Dutch (my first langue’s), so I am afraid there will be even more spelling errors then I normally make. My apologies.

    Fighter
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    | bonus feat set

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | 1e combat style

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    | Feat experience, 60min, 1 person

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +x4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    | Offensieve style

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    | Defensive style

    6th|
    +6/1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    | Feat experience, 50 min, 2 people

    7th|
    +7/2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    | vetern

    8th|
    +8/3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    | 2e Combat style

    9th|
    +9/4
    |
    6x
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    | Feat experience, 40 min, 3 people

    10th|
    +10/5
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    | Ofense style

    11th|
    +11/6/1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    | Defensce style

    12th|
    +12/7/2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    | Feat experience, 30 min, 4 people

    13th|
    +13/8/3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    | Great vetern

    14th|
    +14/9/4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    | 3e Combat style

    15th|
    +15/10/5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    | Feat experience, 20 min, 5 people

    16th|
    +16/11/6/1
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    | Ofense style

    17th|
    +17/12/7/2
    |
    +10x
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    | Defensce style

    18th|
    +18/13/8/3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    | Feat experience, 10 min, 6 people

    19th|
    +19/14/9/4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    | Treu vetern

    20th|
    +20/15/10/5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    | 4e Combat style Combat mastery [/table]

    HD : 1d10
    skill points 4+int modifier per level, (4+int modifier)x4 ad level one
    class skills : balance, climb, handle animal, jump, ride, swim, tumble,


    bonus feat set
    A level one fighter is just that, someone how has been getting into or has been trained fore fights her entire life. No one will call them self a fighter, inthea way a wizard or a druid will, but it is for many the first step to the discipline of physical combat.

    Benefits: you may choose one of the following feat sets:

    the disciplined soldier : will becomes good, iron will
    the bastion : will becomes good, tower shield profency
    the commando : spot, listen, hide and move silent become class skills
    the athlete : tumble is a class skill, no armour check penalty to tumble fore light armour
    the street fighter : weapon focus unarmed, improved weapon focus unarmed, weapon specialisation unarmed
    the wild fighter : power attack, cleave
    the champion : will becomes good, endurance, toughness
    the scout : run, fast movement endurance



    Special: a fighter may take these feats for her feat set even if she does not meet the requirements for them

    combat style
    from level two, a fighter starts building here special skills. She learns to use weapons beond the training of any other, but in one foremost is she without equal.

    Benefits: each time a fighter gets a new combat style, she increases all combat styles she has by one step, and then takes the first step of a new one. The bonus count for all weapon given above them in the following list from which the fighter may choose.

    swordsman: all swords

    Versatile, that’s the key. Be able to fight defensively, aggressive, with multiple weapons or be able to go for massive damage

    1e : combat expertise, improved critical swords
    2e : ad twice strength modifier to damage with two handed swords, +1 for each light ore medium sword you wield as a shield bonus to AC
    3e : all swords you can wiled in one hand get a -1 pnanalty fore two weapon fighting
    4e : +4 compentence bonus to hit, +1 increased damage die for two handed swords, +2 for each light or medium sword you wield as a shield bonus to ac

    axe man : all axes

    It’s simple, maximum damage. It’s dos nothing for your defence, but you’ll kill your opponent faster than they can say ‘Swords are better than axes.’

    1e : +1 increased damage die for all axes, ad twice strength modifier to damage for two handed axes.
    2e : improved critical axes, +1 to the critical modifier of axes
    3e : automatic critical thread on a charge, +2 critical range axes
    4e : auto critical on a critical thread, +4 compentence bonus to hit, axes you can wield in one hand give -1 panalty for two weapon fighting

    squire : all maces, flails and clubs

    The club they say, is the dumbest of the weapons. Just a stick to hit with, but you know that it is the simplicity of the mace what makes it such a good weapon.

    1e : +2 competent bonus to hit, exotic weapon profency dire flail, exotic weapon profency great club*
    2e : +4 competent bonus to hit, any living creature you hit must make a fortitude safe equal to damage dealt or be stoned there next action, improved critical maces.
    3e : +6 competence bonus to hit, any living creature you hit must make a fortitude safe equal to damage dealt or be stoned fore 2d2 rounds, +2 critical range.
    4e : ignore all non-magical, shield and dex bonus to AC, +10 competence bonus to hit, +2 to the critical range
    *: you may wiled masterwork great clubs in one hand

    lancer : all spears and halberds

    defend yourself and your friends, keep your opponents ad bay and make them come to you. Deal a lot of damage when they do so as well.

    1e : set against charge*, +2 shield bonus to ac
    2e : dire set against charge**, when fighting a mounted troop and wielding a halberd, you make an automatic improved disarm check, improved critical.
    3e : +1 to critical modifier and critical range when set against charge, +4 to reflex safe to set against charge*, spears you can wiled in one hand count as light for two weapon fighting
    4e : +4 copentnece bonus to hit, +6 compentence bonus to hit when set against charge, +8 to the reflex safe to set against charge, +2 to critical range when set against charge.
    *: whenever you are charged you may make a reflex safe, if your safe is higher than the inactive of the charching creature, your spears count as being set against charge. (double damege)
    **: ad twice you strenght modifior to damege when you use set against charge.

    hammerist : all hammers

    Win with a single blow, if you can’t, beat your opponent away from. Then, win with a single blow.

    1e : power attack, when using power attack with an hammer, the attack counts as an automatic improved bull rush attack.
    2e : dire charge, +1 to damage die of all hammers
    3e : +4 damage when charching, +4 to the bull rush attempt.
    4e : +2 compentence bonus to hit, when you make a successful charge attack on a living creature it gets bleeding one damage fore 2d6 rounds, +4 to the critical range when charching

    archer : all bows and crossbows*

    range is everything. Why wave around heavy metal things or wear clumsy metal suits if you can kill your opponent before they ever get to you., Okay, fair is fair, it is hard to learn.

    1e : ad ½ strength modifier to damage with hand bows, ad ½ dex modifier to damage with crossbows
    2e : ad full strength modifier to damage with hand bows, ad full dex modifier to damage with crossbows
    3e : ad 1 ½ times strength modifier to damage with hand bows and 1 ½ times dex modifier to damage with cross bows, automatic critical if you hit some one who is within 20 feet, +1 to critical range and modifier for hand bows.
    4e : ad twice strength modifier with hand bows, automatic critical if you hit some one who is within 40 feet, automatic it within 20 feat, +1 to critical modifier and range within 30 feet with hand bows.
    *: an archer can only use these feats if she is wearing light or no armour.



    Special: a fighter may make use of these ability’s only when wielding the weapon they count fore, and they only count for these weapons. A fighter may make use of these ability’s even if she does not meet all the requirements.

    offensive style]
    A well routed fighter can, if she wishes, develop fast and effective responses to situations

    Benefits: each time you get a offensives style, you may take on of the following bonuses, or skip it to gain two defensive styles the next time you get a defensive style. The effects of the offensive styles stack with them self, but not with other bonuses.

    - +1 to hit
    - +1 to initiative
    - +1 feat to your charge distance
    - warmonger*
    *: you may subtract any number of your attack modifier and devide this evenly amongst anny number of allies, routed down, They get this as a circumstance bonus to hit as long as the can hear and understand you.


    defensive style]
    A well rounded fighter knows when and how to duck or hide.

    Benefits: each time you get a defensive style, you may choose one of the following bonuses. The effect of defensive style stack with them self, but not with other bonuses.

    sergeant*, shield other**, uncanny doge: dex modifier to AC when flatfooted, +1 initiative, +1 to spot and listen,.
    *: You may subtract any number from you AC and divide this evenly rounded down amongst any number of allies. The get a circumstance bonus to AC as long as they can hear and understand you.
    **: you may as a full round action take all physicals attacks fore one ally



    feat experience
    Learning and mastering your feats is one thing, now you can also teach them to your frends and allies


    Benefits: By teaching them shortly one person per three levels can learn to use one feat you have that is on the fighter bonus feat list for 15 hours, but they must meet all prerequisite. You may however replace replace prerequisites with extra training tome. Add the standard time times the number of feats needed. For example.

    teaching great cleave without power attack and cleave:

    level 1 : 60min + 60x2 = 180 min
    level 18 : 10 min +2x10min = 30min




    veteran

    Having learnt how to survive in a career where this is by nature very hard to do, you have some tricks up your sleeves


    Benefits: you may choose two of the following:

    +1 skill bonus to reflex
    +1 doge bonus
    evasion


    great veteran

    You are getting good, and it shows


    Benefits: you may choose two of the following

    +1 skill focus to reflex
    +1 doge bonus
    improved evasion

    Special: these bonuses stack with those of veteran, but you must have all prerequisites of these feats


    true veteran

    you are a battle hardened champion wordy of poems

    Benefits: you may choose two of the following bonuses

    +2 charisma
    +2 on will safes
    +1 doge bonus
    greater evasion


    Special: these bonuses stack with those of veteran and great veteran, but you must have all prerequisites for them

    combat mastery

    you truly are the most traint battel master there can be.

    Benefits:you may have an unlimited number of base attacks. (you get an additional base attack, each time your lowest base attack becomes six, you’r no longer limited to four)
    Last edited by Dalek Zek; 2013-06-22 at 02:14 AM. Reason: fred should be threat

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Okay, i figured out why the colum dit not apeard, altering it now.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    My first critique is that I think the Bonus Feat set and Combat Styles are somewhat redundant compared to a normal fighter and the open bonus feats he gets. Essentially you are making a system where at level 2 you pick a chain of feats that you'd want to get as you advance.

    Why not just make these abilities feats and allow a fighter to pick from them as usual?


    Secondly, a lot of the things you're adding can be game-alteringly powerful or are the opposite of what I think you're intending. For example, looking at the first set of Combat Styles, "Swordsman:"

    1e : combat expertise, improved critical swords
    Keep in mind that this is equivalent to a lot of feats combined, especially if you normally consider short swords a different type than greatswords. The progression of your Fighter gets many more feats and abilities than an equivalent normal fighter would (if you're looking to keep your class from being overpowered, keep comparing it to Fighter, which should be of similar power)

    2e : ad twice strength modifier to damage with two handed swords, +2 for each light ore medium sword you wield as a shield bonus to AC
    Adding to 2H sword damage combined with normal power attack is way overkill in the damage department. And compare the free +4 to AC to a two-weapon swordsman to the Tempest prestige class where it takes a full 5 levels to get just +3 to AC from 2 weapon style.

    3e : all swords you can wiled in one hand count as light fore two weapon fighting
    Wielding a bastard sword as a light offhand weapon (or greatswords with Monkey Grip) is a notable increase in damage output over a normal fighter.

    4e : 2d10 to hit instead of 1d20, +1 increased damage die for two handed swords, +4 for each light or medium sword you wield as a shield bonus to ac
    First, 2d10 to hit is a huge penalty to the fighter. (I don't think this was intended) Consider that this decreases the chance of getting a 20 from 5% to 1%.
    And as for damage output this is a HUGE amount over what a normal fighter could have... and a +8 shield bonus to AC while using 2 large weapons...


    If you want this class to be comparable in power to a normal Fighter, experiment with various builds of normal fighter and work towards comparable damage output and AC. Right now you'll find that the abilities you have make this fighter MUCH more powerful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keneth View Post
    Evil Guy: Your reckless display of power shall have a steep price today, mageling! *attempts to throw an undisclosed number of babies in the fiery pillar*
    You: NOOOOOOOOOOO!! *hero point => standard action (dismiss spell)*
    Babies: *bounce "harmlessly" off the ground*
    Evil Guy: Damn you, sorcerer! This is not over!!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    More powerful than the standard fighter out of 3.5 I had thought it, but not game broken. The fighter is tier two I've been told, so this will be tier four then?

    I had mend the 4e steps of the combat style to be powerful capstones. That the 2d10 is a weakness comes as a surprise. The last step of them is supposed to be the reason to take them (sins you can only get one of them finished) The combat styles will prove the hardest to balance out of course. I had thought that players would go for the capstone of archery before swords though.

    I had missed the combo with basterd swords though. Your right that two weapon fighting with basterd swords will boost damage and AC a lot together, the idea had been you had to choose one when drawing your sword.

    So a you'd say I should down grade the styles? I could put the focus of their strength more on the capstones, keep them less powerful on the way there.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    i had hoped to put some sample charekters in today, it'll have to whait till tomorow
    Last edited by Dalek Zek; 2013-06-19 at 05:14 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Just to Browse's Avatar

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Ozy is wrong about 2d10 replacing d20 being weak. Considering your average attack will hit regularly, this makes hitting much more viable. It also completely stops you from having critical failures. The only thing it really hurts is crit builds, which kind of undermines the crit-improving axe features.

    Actual criticism: right now it's just a pile of numbers. Still no defense against flight, no real mobility, no way to avoid save-or-die effects, nothing but big chunks of AC, hit, and damage.

    And who the heck is Fred?

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    Xervous's Avatar

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    @ who is fred: mispronunciation of "threat"

    I dunno who's telling you what, but fighter is tier 4/5, with tier 1 being the best. This is just a bundle of numbers that would sit in tier 4. Sure you have ludicrous stats, but as others have said, it does nothing to enable you to deal with the various problems that adventurers must face.
    Quote Originally Posted by An Unfortunate Player
    Obviously he died to a brain eating bird. No, not a rapier or crossbow bolt. Birds, brains, yeah.
    And so their arrival was foretold

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    BladeTempest's Avatar

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Hey Dalek Zek. Tbh most of what everyone said already is right. Your fighter only has stats. Which if you are only fighting melee only enemies and no magic then this could be construed as op, however, magic is there and well... would kind of tear your fighter apart as much as a twelve year old with a tweezers would to an ants legs... just sayin. not trying to be cruel

    What your class needs are options. I am building a class that is also very much a front line fighter-ish build but with a small dab of magic and options it could be a real contender. as such. Shameless plug.

    My class is nearing completion but not quite done yet but i think it could serve as a good example of thought process? maybe? idk. but the idea to bring fighters up to higher "power" without breaking them in half (like full casters are) you need o have options. and not just extra feats or bonus stats. but the ability to do more things. Stats will even themselves out with magic items, but its what a class can and cannot handle that really sets the line.

    hope that helped
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    @ who is fred: mispronunciation of "threat"

    I dunno who's telling you what, but fighter is tier 4/5, with tier 1 being the best.
    Ah, okay, i had the tiers the wron way around

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Ozy is wrong about 2d10 replacing d20 being weak. Considering your average attack will hit regularly, this makes hitting much more viable.

    And who the heck is Fred?
    I had tought my self that the savrel dice are powerfull, espacaly the 3d10 of the maceman and the 5d4 of the archer.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by BladeTempest View Post
    Hey Dalek Zek. Tbh most of what everyone said already is right. Your fighter only has stats. Which if you are only fighting melee only enemies and no magic then this could be construed as op, however, magic is there and well... would kind of tear your fighter apart as much as a twelve year old with a tweezers would to an ants legs... just sayin. not trying to be cruel
    The high safes and option on making will good aswell realy gives no protection?

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    BladeTempest's Avatar

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Zek View Post
    The high safes and option on making will good aswell realy gives no protection?
    Not as much as you are thinking it will while it is true that saves can be boosted to ridiculous extents high base save's aren't as good as they appear at first glance because there are ways to boost the saving throw difficulty classes just as well.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Would futher bonuses help? Like an aditiol +2 against anchant/ilusion?
    Last edited by Dalek Zek; 2013-06-20 at 12:45 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    No. You can't improve the Fighter by just adding more numbers. You need to give it actual features and things it can do besides swinging its sword at people.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Ozy is wrong about 2d10 replacing d20 being weak. Considering your average attack will hit regularly, this makes hitting much more viable. It also completely stops you from having critical failures. The only thing it really hurts is crit builds, which kind of undermines the crit-improving axe features.
    Just to Browse is wrong! (hah See what I did there?) And no, I didn't say it was weak, I said it was a penalty. 2d10 had a very different statistical distribution than 1d20. The average outcome of 2d10 is 0.5 higher than on 1d20, which is nice, but in most challenging encounters you need to roll higher than 10 to hit.

    For example, if you need to roll and 18 or higher to hit:
    You have 15% on 1d20
    You have 7% on 2d10

    I'm not saying that attacking easy-to-hit minions doesn't happen often, but isn't where the real challenging/dangerous encounters come in. When you DO go up against that boss or you do have stacking penalties against you, you'll curse the idea of having significantly less chance to hit.


    And as for ways to respond to magic/flying/etc, he isn't any WORSE off than a fighter. He'll have to rely on magic items or caster allies to buff him in some cases, as do many base classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keneth View Post
    Evil Guy: Your reckless display of power shall have a steep price today, mageling! *attempts to throw an undisclosed number of babies in the fiery pillar*
    You: NOOOOOOOOOOO!! *hero point => standard action (dismiss spell)*
    Babies: *bounce "harmlessly" off the ground*
    Evil Guy: Damn you, sorcerer! This is not over!!

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by OzymandiasX View Post

    For example, if you need to roll and 18 or higher to hit:
    You have 15% on 1d20
    You have 7% on 2d10
    and the 2d10 and 5d4 of the maceman and archer? are these better or worse?

    (I'm trying to do the math, but its not going well. Is there a trick I could use other then going past all numbers and havin to sart all over again after making a mistake?)
    Last edited by Dalek Zek; 2013-06-20 at 02:13 PM.

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Zek View Post
    and the 2d10 and 5d4 of the maceman and archer? are these better or worse?

    (I'm trying to do the math, but its not going well. Is there a trick I could use other then going past all numbers and havin to sart all over again after making a mistake?)
    The Law of Averages? take the average number out of the die (or combined) dice and take it from there?

    Although tbh I am not a fan of altering the dice you would ordinarily roll in place of a d20 just for the sake of "better chances". To me it defeats the idea of playing the d20 system. No offense meant but at that point you might as well go play mage the awakening or OWoD (i refuse to accept NWoD's existence other than for that statement and reference but that is neither here nor there i guess).

    I guess what is the goal of your "fighter fix"? Is it just to pimp out his stats for a hack and slash game? if so then your fix does that just fine. But if you are looking at making the fighter more valuable to the team in all types of scenario's then you need to give them more than just stat buffs. Some stat buffs with the right flavoring is nice (take the pathfinder fighter for example). But stats alone a class does not make. Its about what the class does. In the case of the fighter usually yes all he does is "fight" so it is possibly one of the hardest classes to "fix" because outside of combat the fighter is rarely relevant which is where most people try to "fix" the fighter.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    So I should focus more on the team mate feats, like the sargent, shield other and war mongerer?

    Or do you mean give him class features beond physicall fighting?
    Last edited by Dalek Zek; 2013-06-20 at 03:00 PM. Reason: I can't get or instead of ore right

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    well it depends. Most of the time players would say abilities other than fighting. I say you need to have a clear idea of what you are trying to do first. Maybe if you post that in a line (i may have missed it. I will go back and read the OP to make sure) somewhere and we can help to put you on the right track.

    For example one of the banes of melee classes isn't so much their accuracy stat wise but at higher levels it tends to be miss chances and "movement" (someone moving away at the same time you target them for an attack rendering the action wasted with a cruel gm, and in more extreme cases teleportation which will really mess with a melee oriented and even ranged warrior but to a lesser extent).

    a slightly under powered way to negate some miss chance could be to have an ability in a pool of abilities the fighter could select to be requiring say 8 ranks in perception (i am using pathfinder skills here i don't know what system you are using) the alertness feat and wis of 15 or better. With this ability you could ignore up to 10% per rank of miss chance that isn't in total darkness for example.

    for movement give the fighter a selectable ability to provoke an AoO whenever an enemy attempts to flee from your square even when only taking a five foot step or allow the fighter to follow the enemy as they make their movement.

    For teleportation maybe you can develop an ability which simply does not allow any supernatural effects to an enemy adjacent to the fighter.

    Allow the fighters "reputation" to effect various "Social" checks by some sort of "deed" system.

    i personally believe there is no reason why only a rogue should be able to find traps and disable them so maybe your fighter can be a verteran explorer who is able to find and disarm even well hidden complex traps.

    things like these and more. Don't be afraid of getting too over the top. It is a fantasy GAME after all. if some one doesn't like what it can do there are always other ways to accomplish the same thing
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by BladeTempest View Post
    The Law of Averages? take the average number out of the die (or combined) dice and take it from there?
    The averages only tell part of the story. In D&D you often need to roll above average to succeed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Zek View Post
    and the 2d10 and 5d4 of the maceman and archer? are these better or worse?

    (I'm trying to do the math, but its not going well. Is there a trick I could use other then going past all numbers and havin to sart all over again after making a mistake?)
    Average 1d20 roll: 10.5
    Average 2d10 roll: 11.0
    Average 5d4 roll: 12.5

    So your AVERAGE is better with more, smaller dice, but to roll higher numbers (which is more is more and more important as encounter difficulty goes up) becomes exponentially more difficult the more smaller dice you're rolling.

    Chance to roll 18+ on 1d20: 15%
    Chance to roll 18+ on 2d10: 7%
    Chance to roll 18+ on 5d4: ~2.5%

    This is why +attack is simpler and more beneficial all around. It makes a character's attacks hit more consistently without increasing or decreasing the chance of threatening a crit.
    Last edited by OzymandiasX; 2013-06-20 at 03:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keneth View Post
    Evil Guy: Your reckless display of power shall have a steep price today, mageling! *attempts to throw an undisclosed number of babies in the fiery pillar*
    You: NOOOOOOOOOOO!! *hero point => standard action (dismiss spell)*
    Babies: *bounce "harmlessly" off the ground*
    Evil Guy: Damn you, sorcerer! This is not over!!

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by OzymandiasX View Post
    The averages only tell part of the story. In D&D you often need to roll above average to succeed...


    Average 1d20 roll: 10.5
    Average 2d10 roll: 11.0
    Average 5d4 roll: 12.5
    .
    sorry, typo, the squire gets 310 instead of 1d20. Of that one I had thought it was over powerd.

    I see your point about averge and high though, I think your right and I better scrap the idee fore the other clases.
    Last edited by Dalek Zek; 2013-06-20 at 03:56 PM.

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Yes averages are only part of the story but tbh a warrior should base his accuracy on the Law of Averages in PnP settings to determine what foes he should engage and when, or how much they need to improve themselves in one aspect or another. Also crits... :|

    anywho I think what we need to do is get off the numbers so Dalek Zek stops focusing on those atm because i have yet to find an even vanilla fighter with bad "averages" against most stock challenges. Rather what needs be done is to give the fighter more things to do both in and out of combat so he isn't a waste of resources outside of combat.

    the sad part of this is that this class has been done a billion and one times. And while i dont want to kill anyones creativity everyone is going to disagree how it needs to be done.
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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Just to Browse is wrong! (hah See what I did there?)
    Yeah, but it would have worked better if your examples were functional...

    Quote Originally Posted by OzymandiasX
    The averages only tell part of the story. In D&D you often need to roll above average to succeed...
    Your entire post seems to be rooted in this unfortunately incorrect idea.

    This is strictly at level 20, because the only "4e" abilities are level 20, so you need to have taken the improved fighter for 20 levels, granting you +20 BAB.

    Now let's talk AC. I'm pretty sure the highest-AC creatures in the MM are bronze/blue great wyrm dragons (CR ~25), at 44. Call averages on a d20 as 10, so unbuffed and with just BAB this fighter is set with +20. Now he's level 20 and he's no fool, so he has a +5 weapon (25), +2 with his charge (27), +2 from those terrible weapon focus feats (29), and a strength mod of 30 if we're being generous to your side (39). That means that he hits the CR 25 bronze/blue wall of death on a 5 or higher.

    A 5. Or higher. That's 80% of the time on a d20, or a 94% chance on a d20. To top it off, 2d10's have no chance of critical failure because you can't roll a one. It'll take some hard twinking on another PC's end to make 2d10 actually a bad choice for anybody.

    EDIT: Just preemptively, I want to let it be known that I am specifically arguing about Attack Bonus v. AC rolls at the levels where 2d10 replaces the d20 roll. I'm not talking about having to roll high to beat saves, or having to roll higher to beat concealment, or anything of that sort. Just AB v. AC.
    Last edited by Just to Browse; 2013-06-20 at 05:54 PM.

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Thank you just to browse. That was the point i was trying to get at but failing at miserably.
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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    I feel you bro.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    So the 2d10 dos work? Or should I take away some of the capstone abilatys and give all the clases 3d10 and the archer 5d6?

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    I... Take my leave of this thread.
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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    A 5. Or higher. That's 80% of the time on a d20, or a 94% chance on a d20.
    I don't think that is what you meant to say...

    Anyways, nobody is saying that 2d10 doesn't have advantages in many situation. (You can argue that it is most situations. That is fine.) My point has been that it also carries disadvantages that were unintended. Sure you're more likely to hit in most cases, but fewer high to-hit rolls also do things like decrease average damage/turn by making crits much less likely. I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant as an ability that would ever decrease damage output.

    Simply granting a +1 or +2 to hit along with an ability along the lines of "A swordsman cannot critically fumble with a sword" can give the same mathematical and thematic benefits without the unintended disadvantages.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Zek View Post
    So the 2d10 dos work? Or should I take away some of the capstone abilatys and give all the clases 3d10 and the archer 5d6?
    Dalek, there isn't a right answer and possibilities are infinite. I like the concept of what you're trying to do, but to be honest, I think that using the existing Fighter class (with PrCs) and with maybe a few customized feats is the best way to go. Your variant is just tweaking with the parts of fighter that most people agree don't need tweaking.
    Last edited by OzymandiasX; 2013-06-21 at 12:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keneth View Post
    Evil Guy: Your reckless display of power shall have a steep price today, mageling! *attempts to throw an undisclosed number of babies in the fiery pillar*
    You: NOOOOOOOOOOO!! *hero point => standard action (dismiss spell)*
    Babies: *bounce "harmlessly" off the ground*
    Evil Guy: Damn you, sorcerer! This is not over!!

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Crits have basically never in the history of mankind ever actually functioned as a useful damage-increasing tool. The loss of crit failure more than makes up for decreased crit chance, and the average increase in hit chance is sheer beauty on top of that. And I swear, if you are seriously recommending that the capstone for a fighter class be a +2 to hit I'm going to boil my head in acid.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: my own fighter class; please juge harshley

    Okay, so that's a no on the 2d10 idee. What I realy need to know is how the difrend styles will masure against each other. Also, do they hepl with creating variated types of fighters, in the way that fighters with diferant styles would be unmistacanly difrent fom each other?

    quete: if you are seriously recommending that the capstone for a fighter class be a +2 to hit I'm going to boil my head in acid.

    I made them +4 four compentence bonuses and an auto hit fore the archer. Is that better?
    Last edited by Dalek Zek; 2013-06-22 at 07:54 AM.

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