Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin

[HandofShadows]

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The flashback is to show that the shifters are human and likely have been lied to all their lives. To the point of not being able to accept the truth or really deal with it very well. We have seen this before when they had Eren and Ymir prisoner. The shifters are arrogant/racist and that's why they talked about the plan so openly. They didn't really consider that someone could get the drop on them. Same thing happened at the camp site on the wall. They see themselves to an extent as noble warriors who will win because they are the good guys! The Beast shifter there in his human from looks a little like Eren's father to me. Your opinion may be different.

And if you think about it, probably better than 95% of the deaths in the series ARE the fault of the shifters either directly or indirectly.(Of course not counting Ymir and Eren for this purpose.)

[Haruspex_Pariah]

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Bertholdt is suddenly badass enough to survive a Mikasa backstab and doesn't care about Annie anymore, Reiner uses some Titan death-avoiding technique we're only just hearing about, Armin messes up his mindgames, and the chapter ends basically the way it should have started.

Not really too impressed, but I guess we've gained some insight into Bertholdt's state of mind? Worth?

[Kato]

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Bertholdt is suddenly badass enough to survive a Mikasa backstab and doesn't care about Annie anymore, Reiner uses some Titan death-avoiding technique we're only just hearing about, Armin messes up his mindgames, and the chapter ends basically the way it should have started.

Not really too impressed, but I guess we've gained some insight into Bertholdt's state of mind? Worth?

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Yeah, I don't quite see it... considering my guess is he's gonna die. Unless he switches sides but that seems unlikely. I mean, he pretends to be a hard guy now, great, but in the end he's just trying to protect Reiner. Well, good for him but... I don't see the point.

Oh, also, Reiner just a few chapters ago "moved his brain" or consciousness or whatever. So it is not entirely made up on the spot (again) but it's still stupid, in my opinion...

So, maybe next week something serious will happen.

[HandofShadows]

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This is similar to what he did earlier just more extreme. He transferred his body functions to the Titian, but when his head was destroyed it took all his memories. At least that's how I read it. Yeah, this chapter didn't seem to do much.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

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Beast Titan demonstrates you don't need a gun to fire shotgun rounds. Also Eren learns that if you grab a huge dude's leg he will kick you away.

[HandofShadows]

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Yeah this was not a good chapter for the protagonists.

[-D-]

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Yeah this was not a good chapter for the protagonists.

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Understatement of the year. No idea how they get out of this. Go into basement?

[noparlpf]

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Yeah this was not a good chapter for the protagonists.

Has there ever been one that was?

Edit: Actual commentary

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Okay so I have an idea for the humans to beat the colossal titan. What if... they made giant 3DMG for Titeren?

[Kato]

Stupid monthly manga and the thread necromancy it brings with it...

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Understatement of the year. No idea how they get out of this. Go into basement?

What basement?

Has there ever been one that was?

Edit: Actual commentary

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Okay so I have an idea for the humans to beat the colossal titan. What if... they made giant 3DMG for Titeren?

SnK rarely cares about physics much but I feel it does enough to not do that.

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Erwin comes up with a plan possibly more crazy than Eren's last time... But for it to fail that means Levy would have to fail. And there's no way that will happen. So... Beasty is going down?

Dead comrades were kind of nice but... not a reason to throw away soldier lives. How about you spread out a bit more or try different angles of attack or... something?

And... will Armin be the one to remember the effing basement and find whatever imba weapon is there?

[Ramza00]

So any suggestions what the next thread name should be since we are on page 50 and we have only 20 or so posts left for this thread without getting the mods involved?

[HandofShadows]

Attack on Titan II- What's in your basement?

[Lurkmoar]

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I'm betting that Eren sees the Survey Corp charge get wiped out and then he goes all Coordinator on the Beast Titan.

That said... *sniff*

[noparlpf]

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What makes us think Coordinate works on Shifters too?

[Lurkmoar]

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What makes us think Coordinate works on Shifters too?

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Nothing. But I don't believe that all the titans with the Beast are Shifters. The one lugging around stuff on it's back is probably a shifter though. I imagine it's the one that Ymir.

[noparlpf]

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Nothing. But I don't believe that all the titans with the Beast are Shifters. The one lugging around stuff on it's back is probably a shifter though. I imagine it's the one that Ymir.

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Ah okay I misunderstood. I thought you meant he'd use Coordinate on the Beast titan, sounds like you meant he'd use it on the mindless titans to make them go after the Beast titan.

[HandofShadows]

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Levi, you screwed up. I KNOW you wanted to save the commander, but you STILL should have killed the SOB. And they actually have a plan to take down the Colossal Titian that should work.

And we need a name for the new thread.

[Kato]

Meh, beat me to it

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Yeah, great job, Levi. Get your head in the game man and stop your man crush. He wanted you to kill the guy first, then wonder about whatever. Also, Beast seemed kind of childish today. Did he hit his head? And does he relize by sending the Titans at Levi he just gave him a new way to follow him?

And Armin has a plan. He just needs Eren to wear bert out. How hard could that be?
Also, the others get to play with Reiner. Yay?

And we need a name for the new thread.

Do we really? Not much going on here most of the time...
Though I guess we could give Levi the credit he deserves..

[Haruspex_Pariah]

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Sigh. The most murderous bast'd on the cast and he fails to deliver a killing blow on probably the most vital target to this date. He knows that he can't possibly account for all of the Beast's minions with all that smoke? If it wasn't the pack mule some other hiding titan might have stomped him while he was all distracted. The scene of him slicing Beast Titan to pieces was awesome though, feels like a long time since we've seen him go all out. For all the Beast Titan's accomplishments Levi still made a mess of him. I was actually expecting a closer fight.

Also Armin seems to have his groove back. He was put off balance by Berthold having grown a spine, but he's still a smart guy.

Commander's death is sad, but fits with the merciless body count of the entire series.

Having a brief look into the Beast's mindset is interesting, though in that moment he seemed to have gone on an internal rant.

[Ramza00]

Wow at the most recent manga

Spoiler: Thoughts on Titans and the themes of the Manga with spoilers for some other shows

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Warning spoilers for Code Geass, warning spoilers for Ghost in the Shell


So I think it is quite clear now that the Titans and Human as a theme represent that without true choice there is no point in living. What is the point of living if you are just going to live in a cage...it is merely mental stimulation but there is no original thought, no passion, just it being some form of cult. Like a computer loop that is just adding 1 to a counter each time it loops, 1 becomes 2, becomes 3 becomes 4 but there is no purpose for the counter the counter has no value it is just accumulating.

But that type of life is peaceful at a time. Thus when you live in a world of constant terror you may crave the solitude of the cage.


But another theme is that people do things on autopilot and instinct even though they do not realize it. The brainstem, and some areas of the emotional brain can be so overwhelming that you are stuck in a destructive cycle. Without the outer areas of the frontal and parietal lobe as well as certain parts of the emotional brain we are just mindless beasts, or we can be preprogrammed robots.


And we can continue to act on this instinct even if it no longer makes sense. Aka humans and titans can be like zombies where we continue to do stuff as long as our heart remains beating, as long as our brainstem is firing, we can be a vegetable with no original thought but we continue to live. This is actually much like Ghost in the Shell where all the cyborgs even the people who fully are cyborg still retain a certain part of their brainstem. That even though they can digitize the outer lobes, the emotional brain, the program will not compile, there can be no ghost without the brainstem in most instances in ghost in the shell. But this is actually a theme that ghost in the shell explores for a complete self functioning AI is not the same as a Robot, certain AIs have evolved to a point where they have their own Ghosts, their own Souls (see the Laughing Man and the Tachikomas).

Put another way Attack on Titan is now exploring the themes of Ghost in the Machine (Gilbert Ryle), Descarte Dualism, Buddhism what occurs to your body, what occurs in your mind (mental representation), and what is your soul, and other themes such as the Ancient Greek's Ship of Theseus.






Put another way in the story telling process and the themes Hajime Isayama (Attack on Titan's author) is trying to create. What is the power of the Coordinate? Perhaps it can be redefine as the power of Alpha or the power of Zero (see Code Geass) it is the ability to hit the reset switch, the power to start over and create a new world with deleting old memories and creating new memories.

Schneizel el Britannia the very tall older brother of Lelouch who stands as the final villian of the second season of Code Geass (and not the father which you assumed would be the final villian). Schneizel once made a comment when he was plotting rebellion on the nature of the word authority (episode 20 of season 2, they are playing pool and start a Coup followed by them debating the morality of doing a Coup with some people at spearpoint). Authority means power and rulership but Authority also has another meaning and it is actually the origin of the word in Latin.

Authority in english derives from french and this french word derives from the Latin word auctor which means originator or promoter. Put another way it means sire or first. It is the original from which all derivatives and copies are made but also all improvements. The word Author also comes from the word auctor and thus the other definition of the word Authority besides meaning power is meaning the ability to write into the book of time and create something new.


I am not going to talk much about this since its a controversial topic and its against the rules of the board to go too deep into this. But some of the books of the bible in the monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam dwell on this as a big deal. These books say that the Hebrew God YHWH is different than the other gods of the fertile crescent for the other gods have their own mythology how 1 god beget another god and so on. Thus in exodus the hebrew god claims to be the original, the coordinate, the first, the always was, and thus the name means YHWH from which other names Yahweh and Jehovah are derived means in the original hebrew the words I AM.

I am now going to drop the religion allusions, and to point out I am personally agnostic I only brought up religion not due to its religious significance but instead due to its literary and philosophical merits for religion can be seen as some ways as a philosophical way of creating a human value system and morality.

[HandofShadows]

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*&(^$@&%# Did they just kill Armin At least both the enemy Titans are down. Maybe Armin can become a shifter?

[-D-]

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*&(^$@&%# Did they just kill Armin At least both the enemy Titans are down. Maybe Armin can become a shifter?

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I think only think Armin will become is a corpse. That would actually be lame and ruin the point of his sacrifice and he seems to be dead already.

The big problem is of course Monkey Trouble. He was almost defeated by Levy, I believe.

[Kato]

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So the traitors are defeated... and Armin... I think is really dead. I hate them ruining sacrifices with sudden revivals. Just pray they don't let Bert ad reiner escape again.
Also: Hange is fine, nice.

I kind of feel like Armin didn't need to kill himself to distract Bertholt... and he really should be able to tell a shell and a titan apart but... eh, whatever. I'm fine.

We need a new thrad soon, no?

[Ramza00]

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So the traitors are defeated... and Armin... I think is really dead. I hate them ruining sacrifices with sudden revivals. Just pray they don't let Bert ad reiner escape again.
Also: Hange is fine, nice.

I kind of feel like Armin didn't need to kill himself to distract Bertholt... and he really should be able to tell a shell and a titan apart but... eh, whatever. I'm fine.

We need a new thread soon, no?

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Bertolt own visibility is massively decreased when he is doing his own steam release, effectively he is blind whenever he attacks with this method. Thus he only saw the titan shell in his peripheral vision after his steam release. Part of him continued to look at Armin for he was mourning him, instead of using those fractions of a second to move his eyes around and see the environment around him. We see this in Panel 28 and 29 for during the steam release, Armin eventually drops his swords and falls 50 meters from the air near the top of the wall to the ground. In Panel 39 we see Berholt states that it is finished, and then in the bottom right panel we see Armin from Berholts point of view and vision, and Armin is burned probably dead, on top of a house inside the wall, then we see several panels where Bertolt states he needs to talk to Eren and then he realizes this is a titan shell decoy. It was during these critical seconds or a fraction of a second that Eren set up the attack (though he may have been preparing for it earlier with the hardening prior to the steam release.

In effect Bertolt was not paying attention to the battle well enough, he was focused on one area, and could not see out of his peripheral vision the difference between a real titan and something that is effectively a cardboard cut out of a titan. Note this is not the first time stuff like this happens, for example Annie / Female titan escaped during the female titan arc when the other titans devoured her titan form. Also in the Clash of the Titan Arc, an incomplete Bertolt in the colossal titan form purposefully rolled over off the wall and landed on Eren and Reiner, then Bertolt does his steam release, and during this moment Bertolt and Reiner steal Eren.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_eye#Eye_movement

Here is some trivia in real life about how the eye works. It is really not important to know all the details to understand what happened in the manga, so the science and details of what I am about to say do not really matter for humans sometimes unconsciously get this. The part of the eye that is able to do the supreme focus and do things like reading from a book or a reading chart is only 2 degrees. Aka a really sharp point, this point / part of the eye that allows us to do this is called the fovea.

Now the rest of the eye can do a larger field of vision but it can't do the fine detail work only about 2 degrees of vision of your eye can do that. The brain compensates by moving your eye around all the time with something called saccades, and even when you are supposedly starring completely at an object and you think your eye is not moving, in reality your brain is doing small micro movements called microsaccades. Your brain then "imagines", and stitches together all this various information where the brain "fills in the blanks."

Thus understand what you see in your peripheral field of vision may not be what you think it is in reality. This is important for things like magic tricks and such, for example the retention of vision vanish trick

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retent..._vision_vanish

[HandofShadows]

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The Titian shifters tend to be arrogant and don't give enough credit to normal people, heck they don't even give Erin enough credit either. And it came back to bite them. As for Armin he actually could still be alive if the fall didn't kill him. While his skin is certainly horribly burned, that actually will not kill him quickly there are people who have had most all of the skin burned off and lived a little while. Now if he breathed in the steam and had his lungs burned, then he's dead.

[Ramza00]

Chapter 82 is now out in multiple places, I am mentioning it even though I commented on 82 a few days ago for the art is much cleaner and more vivid and easier to see the action due to some cleanup as well as better scans.

[Kato]

New chapter.

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Geez, what a surprise... now we need to have a fight because Armin vs Erwin... as if we don't know who will get the serum. But I guess Mikasa vs Levy could be fun....

And... Grisha is responsible for the Beast Titan? Is he lying or...? I'll admit, I'm curious. I just hope whatever will be revealed whenever will make sense.

Also: Love letter to Krista. Ymir is so adorable.

[Ramza00]

New chapter.

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Geez, what a surprise... now we need to have a fight because Armin vs Erwin... as if we don't know who will get the serum. But I guess Mikasa vs Levy could be fun....

And... Grisha is responsible for the Beast Titan? Is he lying or...? I'll admit, I'm curious. I just hope whatever will be revealed whenever will make sense.

Also: Love letter to Krista. Ymir is so adorable.

Spoiler: About Chapter 83, July 2016

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Will the titan serum even work for someone grievely injured? We actually have no evidence of someone being injected with the serum who was injured became a mindless titan and then ate someone.

All we have to go for that the serum will heal people is based off the crazy Kenny Ackerman someone by his own admission does not understand how the titan serums and the coordinate work (see the Reiss Saga where Kenny was going to use the Serum and eat Eren and then become king until Reiss said if you want the Coordinate only the Reiss bloodline can control the Coordinate).

Now this is not the same thing

* Comparing titan shifters and

* Comparing a person who was a normal human and injected with the serum with the goal of making a mindless titan

But we know with titan shifters if your body has not healed than you can't titan shift.

I would not be surprised that they do a big deal of who gets the serum only to find out that they did not understand how the serum works, and then only for Bertolt to laugh at them after they waste the serum for they do not know what they are talking about. In this hypothetical Bertolts says of course the serum could titanize someone but not if they are already dead or they are so close to death they can't turn into a titan.

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But whatever this is only a theory and I am not putting money down on it, I am just playing devil's advocate for everyone assumes the serum can heal these people and to my understand we have no evidence that it does.

This screams unreliable narrator and the unreliable narrator has been used several times as a overall theme of the story (are your memories really your memories do the coordinate, is society what it thinks it is) but also the unreliable narrator has also been used for several traps by the survey corps against the titan shifters.

[Silverraptor]

I'm surprised no one is talking about season 2 now. I looked for a new thread but didn't find one.

[noparlpf]

I mean...despite being tagged as "TV" the half dozen people who post here mostly talk about the manga, so the stuff going on in season two of the anime already happened several years ago.

Edit: My bad, I'm on mobile so I didn't realise - this is an old thread and there is actually a newer one which, if you're only following the anime, has major spoilers from the manga.
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