Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin

[Metahuman1]

I hope no one minds if I just talk about the show and ignore the arguing. There's this theory that was mentioned that's factually inaccurate...





This theory is just not based in the canon at all. It messes with the clearly established time line, and time travel is (thankfully) not a plot device AoT has put to use yet. While we really haven't been given enough as an audience to make definite assumptions (on the sub-reddit, for example, almost every wider theory on the AoT world can be debased by asking where one or two of the wild card characters we have very little info on fit in) this is one of the things we can say for sure.

Detailed spoilers below, but I'm guessing you don't care if you don't like the series, so:

Spoiler

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We can list this pretty simply: Eren starts out a normal (but psychotic, really) kid. He later gains the abilities to transform into a Titan and control other Titans (although possibly not at the same time; the power has only been demonstrated once and he did it by accident when he failed to transform-- after biting off all his fingers). These abilities are universally assumed to be because of the injection his father gave him after Wall Maria was broken and his mother died-- that scene that we can't quite fit into the sequences of "Eren on a boat" and "Eren in a refugee camp with a key". He lost his memories of how and where he met his father, but he got the key, and the injection, and the story went from there.

If the injection is where he got his powers from, which we're pretty much sure it is,* then there's just no way he used his powers to control others on Mikasa-- he hadn't been given them in the first place when they met and killed the slavers. To say that he used his Titan controlling powers on Mikasa implies that the injection did something totally different and that Eren has been an actual Titan/Coordinate all along. And we really can't put that out there as an option, either. The other Titan Shifters have confirmed for us, right in front of Eren, that the only reason they can control their Titan powers and transform is because they ate another Shifter. They even actually thought at the time that Eren must have eaten another Shifter as well, and forgotten who like they had-- they're pretty sold on the idea that you can't just 'exist' as a Titan Shifter. It's very, very unlikely that Eren had any powers beyond super-human determination (see "Shonen Protagonist Syndrome", although I don't see it as a problem, honestly) by the point in the story where Mikasa "wakes up" and switches from being a docile farm girl to contender for Humanity's Strongest.

In fact, if I can say a thing or two about Mikasa's motivation, by this point she's not even fighting for Eren at all-- yes, she's saving him, but there's no love there (romantic or otherwise (but come on, romantic)) when she stabs that slaver in the back. You usually see people who criticize Mikasa as "not actually a strong character" saying that everything she does is because she "idolizes" Eren unrealistically. A) This is literally not even a bad thing if it's true. B) When she actually started being as strong a character as she is, she had no one to idolize but her dead parents, and she only thought of them tangentially as she killed a man.

And even if Eren did have his powers when he met Mikasa-- which he didn't-- it's a bit of a stretch to extend the power as we've seen Eren use it on Titans and say that what he "did" to Mikasa was even in the same category. He death-yelled as he suicidally attacked a full-size Titan with his bare, bleeding, human hands and his rage was so raw (see "Shonen Protagonist Syndrome"-- again, I don't think it's a bad thing) that he controlled the mindless Titans around him to eat the thing alive. When he met Mikasa as a child, he was being strangled by a thug-- so yes, it's still also a near-death scenario-- and he shouted a nihilistic life lesson at a girl from across a room. I imagine the Titans went back to normal after Eren stopped telling them what to do with his voice (just asking for a Skyrim crossover), whereas Mikasa has stayed the stoic killer girl she became when she was kidnapped and Eren hasn't, as critics would lead you to believe, been screaming day-in and day-out that the only way to survive is by killing.

It's just not the same situation, and it's moot anyway. Tl;dr, Eren didn't have his powers when he met Mikasa, so the special effects and close-ups of her brain before she stabbed a guy are just that: special effects.


*While Isayama has led us on as readers in the past, ie Eren seemingly making the right choice in leaving it to Levi Squad, or a few other things, these are usually short-lived moments where we think one thing and it's "corrected" for us almost immediately afterward, usually with a side character dying horribly. See all of Squad Levi being killed because Eren didn't turn into a Titan and help them, and also the president of the Reeves Company because Civil War.

Spoiler-less tl;dr: the situation with Mikasa's strength isn't a "crime against humanity".

Feel free. =)


And as said, I hate this series. Though if I'm perfectly honest, one of the more irksome aspects is that its a series that with not that much in the way to tweaks/adjustments in the premise or the handling/progression, I probably would have loved. But that tweaked version isn't what I got, and that just hits a freaking Nerve on several levels for a laundry list of reasons. Add that more and more giving a crap about anime mandates seeing it and hearing about it and how amazing it is all over the place, and yeah, we get the hate.

Anyway, I sincerely hope your correct in both the respect of "No, canon point blank says there is no way Mikasa is awesome because of Eren's super powers." and "She 100% does NOT want a romance with Eren." Though I would also hope that feeling a different kind of love, the kind you feel for a good friend you've had for a long time or a sibling or just basic human empathy isn't lost for her. That would just be part of the nihilistic depressing hopeless bleakness the show pushes so much of that grates on me so.

Still looking around for were I read that snippet form earlier about Eren moving toward going full tilt toward "oh, yeah, I'm gonna not just wipe out all the titans, I'm also gonna purge humans of all the human shaped beasts by massive death tolls!" and Mikasa and Armin's response being to have a privet chat were they say "yeah, were gonna have to kill him after the war.". I know it was somewhere (I wouldn't cook up something THAT utterly stupid to go after a series like this via a rumor on my own. I'd think it was too stupid to under handed. And then too stupid.), but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

In the mean time however, allow me to let someone else back me up on Armin being Suicidal.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/vid...depth-analysis

[Cobalt]

Still looking around for were I read that snippet form earlier about Eren moving toward going full tilt toward "oh, yeah, I'm gonna not just wipe out all the titans, I'm also gonna purge humans of all the human shaped beasts by massive death tolls!" and Mikasa and Armin's response being to have a privet chat were they say "yeah, were gonna have to kill him after the war.". I know it was somewhere (I wouldn't cook up something THAT utterly stupid to go after a series like this via a rumor on my own. I'd think it was too stupid to under handed. And then too stupid.), but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

Huh. Well, I've read/watched everything and that scene hasn't happened. I can imagine the trio falling apart much later in the story, and I do know that Tetsuro Araki said in an interview that directing the anime felt like directing the childhood story of a dictator (referring to Armin). But nothing about there being plans to kill Eren off being in a canon conversation.

You may have picked the idea from the social media wave, probably just someone's fan conclusion about "what's got to happen next" or something. But no, there's been nothing like that in the actual story, not for an extension of Eren's kill-rage and not for some plan for his friends to kill him.

[Metahuman1]

I was actually rather certain that it was the review linked above, but having rewatched it and it's "Spoiler free" counterpart review, I'm forced to say that wasn't it. And it wasn't the Fridge Horror page of TV Tropes so if I can't find it when I look later on the tropes general page I'll be forced to drop that point.

[Dienekes]

Nilehus: Tell you what. Go to the first page of the thread. Start scanning forward for posts by me. I didn't care for the show at all at that point, and bowed out figuring I would just ignore it and it would just be a thing I didn't care for and didn't follow, like Spiderman Comics after the One More Day event happened. And then the damn thing started popping up everywhere I freaking turned with rabid fans fawning over how perfect and amazing it was utterly endlessly! It had it's chance to live and let live with me, but it couldn't even stop rubbing it's existence and utterly insane popularity in my face, to the point were I'm literally having to cut the little bit of Toonami I was catching once a freaking week to not see adds for it. Yes, I am at the point were I hate this series. It had to work rather hard in conjunction with a rather large chunk of it's fandom to earn that hate.

Dude, since I've been on this thread you've posted more than anyone else. You've analyzed the story more, and you've admitted to browsing the wiki to figure out the storylines. It sounds almost like you go looking for this crap just to fuel your hatred.

Let's bring my own example into this. My Little Pony sucks. I tried watching the first two episodes and I am saddened I will never get that time of my life back. And that show went freaking everywhere! Hell, there was a time when every damn thread on this board had someone with a damn pony avatar, and that April Fools day when everything suddenly turned ponies? What kind of strange Hell was that? But you know what? It's just some people having fun. Sure I'll roll my eyes, but honestly, it's harmless. What I don't do is charge onto the Pony thread and announce how terrible the show is, or go reading the wiki. You seem to be just utterly wasting your own time and shouting at people to stop enjoying what they like because you don't like the way it's advertised. I mean, a commercial for a show is harmless. An avatar of a pony is harmless, and it's not that hard just to tune it out.

[Nilehus]

Thanks! I'm on a phone, so it's a bit difficult to type out longer responses. You said everything I wanted to.

If you hate Attack on Titan with such a passion, the Attack on Titan thread is probably not the best place for you. My wife loves MLP, whereas it annoys me. So I just ignore it when she's watching it, and I don't read the MLP thread.

[Metahuman1]

Dude, since I've been on this thread you've posted more than anyone else. You've analyzed the story more, and you've admitted to browsing the wiki to figure out the storylines. It sounds almost like you go looking for this crap just to fuel your hatred.

Let's bring my own example into this. My Little Pony sucks. I tried watching the first two episodes and I am saddened I will never get that time of my life back. And that show went freaking everywhere! Hell, there was a time when every damn thread on this board had someone with a damn pony avatar, and that April Fools day when everything suddenly turned ponies? What kind of strange Hell was that? But you know what? It's just some people having fun. Sure I'll roll my eyes, but honestly, it's harmless. What I don't do is charge onto the Pony thread and announce how terrible the show is, or go reading the wiki. You seem to be just utterly wasting your own time and shouting at people to stop enjoying what they like because you don't like the way it's advertised. I mean, a commercial for a show is harmless. An avatar of a pony is harmless, and it's not that hard just to tune it out.

1: when did you get on this thread? Go back to the start, I promise there are people who have posted more then me about this series in this thread.

2: By analyzed do you mean disliked and/or informed that there are hugh glaring problems with the series? Cause, those are really the only definitions by which that assertion would work.

3: Really? Please, quote me saying I was on the Attack On Titan/Shingeki No Kyojin Wiki in this thread. Please, provide that quote. Oh, Wait, I've never explicitly stated that. I said I read something somewhere and was trying to find where It was. I said I watched the JesuOtaku review of the series (I watch her reviews no matter what there of at least once cause I like her reviews and series and want to support her. I do the same for Marzgurl, Nostalgia Critic (exception: Bum reviews of movies I've not seen but am planning to see, and only until I see them.) and Linkara.) and read the Fridge Horror section of TVtropes on the matter. I read a lot of things on FridgeHorror and TVtropes just to kill time. Doesn't mean I like every thing I'm reading about. And as an aside, the TVtropes/Fridge Horrors original goings over were at a point were I had decided I didn't care for them but didn't have near the hatred for the series I do now.

4: Actually, fun detail. MPL fans were at one point told to confine it to there own forums/tumblers/sections of the internet on pain of disciplinary action form admins on many websites, including this one. I've yet to encounter that happening to Attack On Titan fans. (Even though for a lovely example in spite of having this thread Attack On Titan discussion basically took over the Demotivator thread some days back. )

5: One other thing I'd like to point out is that I've noticed a LOT of Attack on Titan's stronger fans ripping into other franchises I like for assorted reasons, deserved and undeserved alike. Yet these same people seem to expect others not to do the same to Attack On Titan. Just pointing out that this is a pattern I've noticed.



Nilehus: 1: When AoT comes up in other discussions that by rights it has no business coming up in, or comes up and is touted as superior to the thing originally being discussed inherently, and I don't accept this, I'm told I should go to were AoT is the topic of discussion to say these things. Thus, here I am. (That and originally I only stuck my head in to find out if anyone knew when in hell they were gonna stop advertising it on Toonami since they stopped running adds for already added shows far sooner for every other show they've added of semi-recent vintage, but once Again, Attack on Titan is the big exception to the rules. I only stayed cause I was mistakenly (though that wasn't really anyone's fault in fairness.) given understand they'd finally reveled the contents of the stupid basement, and I wanted to know which of the two possibility's it was. It sorta devolved from there with people trying to tell me my assessments were wrong and then sorta proving them for me in more then one case. ) So, that's how we got here. Funny world, isn't it?

2: Um, correct me if I'm confusing you for someone else (apologies if that's the case, and no, I'm really not certain of this and not just trying to be a jerkass on this one.) but, weren't you the person a page or so back that said that you were just gonna watch and see were this lead?



In general:

So, I'm forced to retract the point about Mikasa and Armin planning Eren's Murder and Eren Planning to go Shonen Hitler since I can't seem to find any reference to that anywhere I would actually have stumbled across it (It was not a long list, TVtropes, JO's reviews or TVtropes Fridge Horror pages. That was it.), So I'm forced to conclude that it was a verbal conversation with one of the numerous people in my circle of real life friends who maintains the show is utterly perfect an can do no wrong and that every single anime should be like this and so on made off hand to troll the crap out of me. And it worked. So yeah, on this point I'm a Monkey's Uncle and the thread had the right of it. Go you guys.

However, I would like to raise one thing that I originally stumbled on in the S folder for the TVtropes page while trying to back that above point up. Apparently, the Author of the series announced at some point back that he already had the ending planned, and the ending was "Everyone dies horribly and it was all in vain. The End." and then later withdrew the statement claiming to have changed his mind so as not to induce utter apathy in his fanbase as a result of them knowing form word of god that that was gonna be the ending. I've not been able to find the initial interview were he apparently made this statement, just references to it having happened and him having changed his mind, a couple of which claim that the change isn't set and he's merely "thinking about it but torn on the matter" or that the change is "only because of how insanely popular it got and he doesn't want to make that many people that angry at him." If anyone wants to look into this, be my guest.

Cause unless the entire thing is an utter fabrication of the internet from start to finish, it only cements one of my initial points, and I get to say called it on the end of the series. Possibly on the contents of the room depending on how that plays. I love it when Authors of work I can't stand make making my positions easier.

And so as a final point and in like of the above, I'd like to make one last little prediction.

Spoiler: Spoiler in case your not totally caught up with the Manga.

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So the Troupes page also mentioned that apparently there's this whole thing, that again, I think is stupid, or at least is stupid after the first episode's events of the wall falling to continue doing this, were the government is suppressing science and tech advancements that might have helped them escape the titans or hold them off better or even start winning the war against them and gaining ground and expanding again. I've got a theory here that ties into my Deus Ex Machina. The contents of the basement? There will be some research of Eren's dad on Titans down there to account for the shot that gave him super powers, but a lot of it will be diagrams and blueprints and copy's of notes and what have you on many of these developments that they will then use to actually make things like Hot Air Balloons and guns/Canon's that area actually able to take out titans from the front/sides, from the ground/walls/were ever, at a distance, reliably. Thus making it possible to win the war and so on, or in the case of the balloon is used to let humanity once again flee the titans successfully. And that he'd been gathering massive amounts of this stuff on the down low before the government could effectively cover it up for ages.

This comes with the tag that this assumes he's really does go the direction of not wiping them all out.

[Nilehus]

1. Ah. Good to know. I really don't understand people who go into threads about things they hate for no reason but to complain about it. Glad to know that you didn't enter the thread just to tell everyone they were wrong. Still, I can understand where you're coming from. I don't even use tumblr or watch TV, and even I knew how much AoT was getting advertised/talked about/meme'd. Good show, bit bleak (I understate stuff a lot), but not the second coming or anything.

2. I think so? I was curious as to why you kept posting, and I am SUPER bored. I've got literally nothing to do but work out for the next 3 months until BMT.

[Math_Mage]

1: when did you get on this thread? Go back to the start, I promise there are people who have posted more then me about this series in this thread.

Fact remains, you're one of the most prolific posters on this thread, when your avowed goal is to avoid AoT. For that matter, you create the same level of AoT derail on e.g. the RWBY thread that you were complaining about w.r.t. the demotivator thread, by complaining so vociferously about it every time someone mentions it in passing. If you step back from your machine-gun point-by-point for a second and actually think about it, that's kinda strange.

[Metahuman1]

Neilus: 1: Yeah, so, that's basically that. As an aside something crossed my mind last night while I was trying (and admittedly having not my best attempt at.) getting to sleep. The point you have to hit to kill a Titan is the base of the back of the neck. Isn't that particular part of the body considered beautiful/Erotic in traditional Japanese Culture? Sorta the same way the Cleavage is in modern American culture? I might be misremembering something here and I don't necessarily even think it detracts from the series, it just struck me as kinda an oddity.

2: You have my utmost sympathy's on that regard.


Math: Correction, My avowed position was that I have tried to avoid Attack on Titan, but have been highly unsuccessful do to just how popular and wide spread it and it's fandom are. Also as you may recall, the same person I was going back and forth with about the quality/potential/need for patients with RWBY initially, Lazodiac, is the same person who told me attack on titan is really hopeful right now. Remembering that it was only just announced that the author was only just now thinking about having and ending other then "Everyone dies horribly and it was all in vein and pointless. The End." Also that I did drop it in the RWBY thread. And it got brought back up by someone else.

That is somewhat different. Small difference, but distinct.

[Arkhosia]

I'm gonna leave these here. Has a bunch curse words, just so you know, but hilarious still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6YwnOHQaLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84UQgrq3knw

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I'm gonna leave these here. Has a bunch curse words, just so you know, but hilarious still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6YwnOHQaLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84UQgrq3knw

The quality of the vocals are terrible, but the spirit of the pieces are glorious. haha

[Lurkmoar]

I'm perfectly willing to accept that my theory may be completely crackpot, but Eren's opening dream may be a nod to his having PSY POWERS!
...


A total leap, I know.

[Kato]

So new chapter for those who still care.

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Uh, where did Armin get the gun? Ah, whatever. Armin is becoming more and more the new Erwin, and I like it. I do hope however he's not gonna vomit after every kill. Also, Jean makes up for being a wuss by being suicidal. Or at least trusting in the stupidity, er goodness of people he knows for five minutes. And why gets Armin to be the bait every time?

Ah, well, whatever. We learn some new stuff and the plot is moving forward. We get two new recruits and in a month we might even see Eren again. So... is he still the protagonist or do we need to move that title to Levi? Or Armin? Or Jean...?

[Talanic]

I'm perfectly willing to accept that my theory may be completely crackpot, but Eren's opening dream may be a nod to his having PSY POWERS!
A total leap, I know.

Obviously spoilers, but this far in the thread, nobody should be surprised.

Had the same theory, but wanted to finish the first season before commenting on it (haven't quite yet). The more I see, though, the more likely it seems - and it's not just Eren. I'm fairly convinced that Titans are psi projections - possibly the feral ones are projected at a distance, and nobody has actually managed to really kill a Titan yet. It's possible the people projecting them are half a world away, even. I also suspect that they project an aura of fear to unguarded minds. They also eat people to consume psychic energy - that's why they spit up the corpses after they're dead; it's the death itself that feeds them.

Some of the other characters have exhibited near-telepathic coordination. One character declared the ability to 'smell' titans coming, and he correctly declared that they were being approached from all directions. Mikasa may be an empath - she seems to get more powerful based on the regard of others, but that could just be coincidence.

Lastly, the psi powers exhibited by the female titan include projection of shields, and I've heard something about a 'wall titan', which got me thinking something completely crackpot.

The Titans showed up a little over a century ago, and the walls went up not long after. Wall Maria is 3,000 kilometers long - that's comparable in size (specifically, a little under half the length) to the Ming era Great Wall of China, which took a century to build and was one-tenth the height. What if the walls are worshiped because their appearance was, in fact, miraculous? What if the walls are named after women (and have ornate sculptures of faces on the gates) because specific psions caused the walls to manifest, and they're not strictly real objects? The colossus titan should have been able to tear a hole in the walls; they're not solid stone throughout, just brick and mortar, and titans are stronger than their proportions suggest. Ripping down a wall that comes up to its shoulder should be comparable to disassembling a similar wall made of legos.

This is all probably completely off base, but I enjoy speculation.

[Arkhosia]

Spoiler: My speculation

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The new plot is similar to the old one with titans being manmade. The titans have their inexorable hunger to devour humans because somewhere out there, a Shifter with a greater, enhanced version of "the Coordinate" exists and is influencing the titans to destroy the humans.
It's reasonable to assume Shifter Regeneration can combat the effects of old age (you know, the whole body entropy stuff), giving an explanation of his survival.
Maybe Grisha was a fellow scientist who secretly disagreed with said Shifter's work, and when he left and became a member of those inside the walls, he stole the serum that turns people into shifters. This is the reason that it appears the only way to create shifters currently is nomming them, a backup process in case the formula was stolen.
He also could have stolen a serum that enables the "Coordinate" powers, but either due to being mixed with the shifter serum (only one syringe, so maybe the two were mixed and injected together), time, or inferiority of the version, it granted Erin a weaker version of the power.
The shifter village is a little slice of the world carved out by the Shifter as a settlement to protect him and his fellow collaborators and family from the titans, maybe with extremely advanced and superior walls or maybe with the coordinate powers used to designate the village a safe zone for humans.

[Arkhosia]

I am now up to dare on the manga!

Spoiler: Chapter 59

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I'm so happy those two cadets are back! Marlo was a very interesting character, and I knew he was gonna join the survey corps. Also, Marlo without Hitch is just... no. Also, hitch called Jean horse-faced, so there's that too!
And of course, Armin is becoming Erwin the second.

[Lurkmoar]

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For Armin having a gun, he's a soldier, I would imagine access wouldn't be too much of a problem. And it would make sense to take one on this kind of black ops deal. The biggest threat wouldn't be a Titan, but another human with a gun. Too bad they didn't expect a combination of gun + 3DMG.

As for Armin puking, if he kills again, I don't think he'll puke. He might fall under the category of 'it gets easier'.

[Kato]

I know I brought this point up earlier and I guess I missed the earliest mentions of guns (supposedly already back in the Attack on Trost) but... it really bothers me! Okay, swinging around with 3DMG and cutting Titan's necks looks much cooler but if these people are actually afraid of Titans, they should be aware they could make guns able to take out a Titan. It's not that hard, even if you don't have revolvers or similar reloading gadgets. Titans have been described as being rather "soft" so any kind of decent sized hollow point bullet hitting a Titans neck even from the front should be able to take one out. Ah, well, I guess then levi and Mikasa couldn't show off their crazy moves.

[HandofShadows]

I know I brought this point up earlier and I guess I missed the earliest mentions of guns (supposedly already back in the Attack on Trost) but... it really bothers me! Okay, swinging around with 3DMG and cutting Titan's necks looks much cooler but if these people are actually afraid of Titans, they should be aware they could make guns able to take out a Titan. It's not that hard, even if you don't have revolvers or similar reloading gadgets. Titans have been described as being rather "soft" so any kind of decent sized hollow point bullet hitting a Titans neck even from the front should be able to take one out. Ah, well, I guess then levi and Mikasa couldn't show off their crazy moves.

There is a reason for it.

Spoiler

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The Military Police are actually killing people who make military inventions like the revolver in order to "preserve sability". A fancy way of saying keeping the current king in power for the benifit of the nobels/rich. Yeah, the govt is highly currupt and stupid. In their effort to protect their own positions, they are putting all of humanity as risk.

[Kato]

There is a reason for it.

Spoiler

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The Military Police are actually killing people who make military inventions like the revolver in order to "preserve sability". A fancy way of saying keeping the current king in power for the benifit of the nobels/rich. Yeah, the govt is highly currupt and stupid. In their effort to protect their own positions, they are putting all of humanity as risk.

Spoiler

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Well, I guess first off we kind of need to guess about how scared they are of the titans. And what agenda the shifters have. If their goal is to bring down the government and they are aware of that they should invest resources in fighting the titans. However, if they feel secure in their walls - which they generally have a right to do - it's corrupt but not stupid to try to monopolize on the most efficient weapons available to secure your position among humans.
But even then, developing better weapons in secret wouldn't hurt... especially as better weapons also help securing their position, so I guess they are somewhat stupid.

[HandofShadows]

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Well, I guess first off we kind of need to guess about how scared they are of the titans. And what agenda the shifters have. If their goal is to bring down the government and they are aware of that they should invest resources in fighting the titans. However, if they feel secure in their walls - which they generally have a right to do - it's corrupt but not stupid to try to monopolize on the most efficient weapons available to secure your position among humans.
But even then, developing better weapons in secret wouldn't hurt... especially as better weapons also help securing their position, so I guess they are somewhat stupid.

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The Shifter's (Ymir is not included in that group though she is a shifter) aren't out to take down the government. They are out to take out all humanity. That is the only reason to destroy the walls. If they wanted the government, they could easily have gone to the seat of power and destroyed it. Instead they went after the walls which will lead to all of humanity aside from themselves being killed.
And it's clear that the people are NOT safe inside the walls and the govt is super stupid for ignoring that fact. The only weapons they have developed that we know of have been for killing people, not Titians.

[Kato]

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The Shifter's (Ymir is not included in that group though she is a shifter) aren't out to take down the government. They are out to take out all humanity. That is the only reason to destroy the walls. If they wanted the government, they could easily have gone to the seat of power and destroyed it. Instead they went after the walls which will lead to all of humanity aside from themselves being killed.
And it's clear that the people are NOT safe inside the walls and the govt is super stupid for ignoring that fact. The only weapons they have developed that we know of have been for killing people, not Titians.

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But what would the shifters gain in "just destroying humanity"? I'm sure there is something behind it we are not told, I'm willing to give the author that much credit at least
I don't claim they wanted the government but just showing up in the capital and stomping around wouldn't really take out the government, I think. There needs to be some more planning to it.

Why are they not safe inside the walls? Shifters (and the giant ape thingy) not withstanding the walls are solid. And this is a pretty recent problem. While humanity is still imprisoned and may at some point need to limit their population it's not like titans can just waltz into the secured area.

[LaZodiac]

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But what would the shifters gain in "just destroying humanity"? I'm sure there is something behind it we are not told, I'm willing to give the author that much credit at least
I don't claim they wanted the government but just showing up in the capital and stomping around wouldn't really take out the government, I think. There needs to be some more planning to it.

Why are they not safe inside the walls? Shifters (and the giant ape thingy) not withstanding the walls are solid. And this is a pretty recent problem. While humanity is still imprisoned and may at some point need to limit their population it's not like titans can just waltz into the secured area.

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It's just conjecture on Professor Hange's part, but if a titan eats a titan shifter, they become a shifter. Maybe their goal is to turn every titan into a Shifter, and by allowing all of humanity to be eaten, it'll ensure that at least some titans will eat people with the potential to be shifter's? I don't know. We'll see!

[Zorg]

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The Shifter's (Ymir is not included in that group though she is a shifter) aren't out to take down the government. They are out to take out all humanity. That is the only reason to destroy the walls. If they wanted the government, they could easily have gone to the seat of power and destroyed it. Instead they went after the walls which will lead to all of humanity aside from themselves being killed.
And it's clear that the people are NOT safe inside the walls and the govt is super stupid for ignoring that fact. The only weapons they have developed that we know of have been for killing people, not Titians.

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My theory is they're not trying to kill all of humanity, that's just based on one thing Reiner said to Eren to try and convince him to come with them - the truth of that is debatable as Reiner is highly unstable. Also it makes no sense as the Armoured Titan made no appearance at Trost to breach Wall Rose. If they were truly out to destroy humanity why not smash all three walls in as many hours on "that day"?

My theory is they were out to get the coordinate back. They think the King / Reiss has control of it (possibly stolen by Ymir at some point hence her titan's appearance in Historia's book and the shifter's vendetta against her), but Grisha had secured it, placing it in Eren just after the fall of Wall Maria. Reiner, Annie and Berthold then, failing to lure the coordinate out (not knowing the King / Reiss can't use it against them) fall back to plan b: infiltrate the military and get into the MPs, to get close to the king and find the coordinate. It's why they didn't destroy Wall Rose - if they did it'd create too much trouble with the refugees and general chaos they wouldn't be able to get close.

However when Eren appears as a shifter and Erwin announces he's joining the Survey Corps suddenly Reiner and Berthold switch their plans at the last second. Also the Ape Titan and Ymir complicates their plans further. Is the Ape Titan the "original titan" and who they want to use the coordinate against? Or were they going to use it to free the titans in the walls? I wouldn't be surprised if the Reiss clan somehow developed the coordinate and tricked the shifter group into becoming the walls, leaving a small surviving number outside who have been waiting to return.

Also given Eren and Ymir's physical resemblance (in the manga it is much more pronounced) I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Grisha is somehow related to "Ymir's people", a refugee from outside the walls of some sort. I don't think the government is ignoring that they are essentially doomed, but I do think they are only doomed because just after Wall Maria fell their secret weapon, the coordinate, got put into Eren. If they had it still they would've driven off the shifters with the dumb titans and then if necessary just messed up everyone's memories to forget about it.

[ea9784]

Sooo, I'm new to this forum and series. I'm not sure if anyone has ever thought this before but I can honestly say that I thought this series was amazing and unique what with the dystopian reality and the titans and the main character suffering the loss of his mother. I found also that the main characters seemed to progress their storylines well, and that the show had great character development. I also greatly enjoyed that people weren't able to just go picking fights with titans; they were pretty much unable to fight them at all, yet that there was some small hope that they would be able to get it together.

I will still watch the show, however, in the last two episodes I've been outrageously pushed away. The things that bother me are that the titans only eat people because of "blood lust", that Eren randomly gained super powers, and that some of the characters are pulling a Bleachy-Sasuke.

I thought the show had an interesting twist to it, in that humans were like cattle or prey, and that apex-predators were just coming in and eating them. I thought this was cool because it kind of puts it into perspective how creatures with our intellect and apathy would have to go through something like that, with little to no way of defending ourselves. However, it's becoming more apparent that the creatures are most likely controlled by other people, making it very Claymore-ish; and Claymore pulled this off better. I feel like originality stopped at that point, since the titans kill just to kill, and that they only die from back of the neck damage where their controller is located.

Eren gaining super powers was annoying because I loved the quick pace combat that was used with the ODM suits. Now that this is an aspect of fighting for them, it's kind of pointless for there to be regular humans fighting. Also, the fact that he is a titan, and that he has become what he hates most this quickly in the story is rather irksome. I'm truly sick of stories where main characters have some random power that gives them the edge over anything else.

Also, I would have to say that the show was fine having one sasuke; Mikasa. Now we have 4+. Mikasa, Levi, the girl who likes titans(don't know her name), Eren and possibly other elites. The annoying part is that the power levels between these characters and others are incredibly unrealistic. Why is it that Mikasa and Levi can move about in front of titans without being even slightly noticed, yet if a regular human drops a nickel they get gangbanged? In such the show is now going the bleach route already, with tiered power levels and an unrealistic division in hierarchy. I really hope that this show quits adding bleachy-sasukes because the show isn't bad, even with its flaws; if they add anymore though, or choose not to kill any of the invincible smooth-talking sasukes, it may be un-savable. However, the show still has bleakness, which not many others have to offer, and that is certainly worth watching and what sets this show apart from others. There was much more earlier on, but there is still a little bit left.

Idk, what is your guys' opinions?

[Zorg]

I will still watch the show, however, in the last two episodes I've been outrageously pushed away. The things that bother me are that the titans only eat people because of "blood lust", that Eren randomly gained super powers,

There's a lot more to it than that actually...

Also, I would have to say that the show was fine having one sasuke; Mikasa. Now we have 4+. Mikasa, Levi, the girl who likes titans(don't know her name), Eren and possibly other elites.

Being elite doesn't spare you a horrible gruesome death in SNK land.

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Levi gets injured and put out of action for a bit during a fight.

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There are quite a few "elite" soldiers who get squicked.

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Mikasa almost gets killed and only escapes due to others saving her and is pretty severely injured as a result. Sasha has one of the most bad-ass moments in the entire series -

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fighting a titan without manoeuvre gear armed with only a bow and arrows

- and Connie, Freckles and Christa all get some pretty good showings of their strengths, so the power level disparity is still great but it sort of starts to level out I guess?

And well, Eren isn't as useful as he seems at first, sort of becomes a bit of a hindrance depending how you look at it...

So yeah, if you don't like it don't force yourself and some of your criticisms are valid, but in some way they just look that way so far or get subverted. Though I should point out a lot of that only starts to kick in from where the anime ends.

[ea9784]

I'm hopeful that the show will offer something new, it did from the beginning it just seemed that the producers chose to spin it towards a more generic direction than what they started with. I'm sure there's something, just waiting to see it. I know there's a large fan base, yet bleach has a large fan base too and after going all the way to the arc where they defeat Aizen (I think was his name) I found that the nonstop action that followed the same formula every time to be very dull witted and boring. AoT is certainly better, or at least couldn't be any worse than that

[Hazzardevil]

I don't see how Attack on Titan could become a Naruto/Bleach/Dragonball like Shounen that is mostly fighting. They don't have outright supernatural powers that let them just make stuff up to shout at each other. So I wouldn't go expecting this to be that sort of Shounen.

[Kato]

I don't see how Attack on Titan could become a Naruto/Bleach/Dragonball like Shounen that is mostly fighting. They don't have outright supernatural powers that let them just make stuff up to shout at each other. So I wouldn't go expecting this to be that sort of Shounen.

Shounen doesn't really mean you need to constantly make up new powers. And on the other hand...

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Eren Jaeger commands you: Die!

[Hazzardevil]

Shounen doesn't really mean you need to constantly make up new powers. And on the other hand...

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Eren Jaeger commands you: Die!

All the popular Shounen I have seen are like that, from my memories of Bleach, Naruto, Pokemon and Yugioh.

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Eren Jaeger commands you: Die!

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I sincerely hope that doesn't become a regular thing. That may be me wanting Attack on Titan to be more focused on the political side of things though.