High School Harem Comedy (Game System, PEACH)

[Lentrax]

Short version Lentrax ran/is running a game. Long version. Me and Esprit played twins.

Was running. Illven, I am sorry for not responding to you before. I am a bit of an idiot, had a couple of problems, and wrote myself into a dang wall. The whole mess was my fault and it was definitely not what any of you deserved.

[Illven]

Was running. Illven, I am sorry for not responding to you before. I am a bit of an idiot, had a couple of problems, and wrote myself into a dang wall. The whole mess was my fault and it was definitely not what any of you deserved.

It's okay, I understand. I certainly don't have a perfect track record dm'ing.

[Ionbound]

Hrm...My thoughts on a couple things I've noticed so far:

1) First off, balance is well done but rather weird. It's very based on play and counterplay, as well as what the GM allows, which may be the point. But to me, it feels like the PvP aspect takes away from just playing silly things. If you want to play something that isn't competitive based on what other people are playing, then you really don't get a whole lot of opportunities, especially based on the way it seems that GMs give RP opportunities to the winners of a roll.

2) This might just be from the people I'm playing with, but people seem to be...Immensely competitive, which again, I feel like takes away from the game. It's one thing to just RP. It's another to have someone taking every little advantage they have, IC and OOC, and excusing by saying, "Well, this game is just 'screw your neighbor', right? Why shouldn't I take every little advantage I have?".

[Anubis Dread]

That's a fair point, though I'm not sure what the solution is. The source material is very much about girls competing with each other, so dialing down on the competition kind of takes away from that. On the other hand stretching all your mechanics as far as they can go does not always make for good RP.

Anyway, one thing I noticed which is kind of interesting is the system seems to punish specialization and reward generalization. Between game changers like Just as Planned, roll inhibitors like Misfortune Talisman, complete roll replacers like Shadow Out of Time and just plain not always being able to apply your number one roll due to the scenario generalizing so you always have two or so fall backs seems the optimul way to play.

This is actually a good thing for the most part, but it can lead to counter-intuitive character building since you only really the full extent of it once you're actually in a game. Most games reward specialization and punish 'jack of all trades, master of none' characters, while for the most part this one does the opposite. If you bring old assumptions in when building a character the results can be a little frustrating. A one sentence disclaimer in chracter building that says 'it's recommended you pick perks that boost multiple attributes rather than focusing on just one' would probably do the trick, since it's more player error than system error.

[A Rainy Knight]

Hrm...My thoughts on a couple things I've noticed so far:

1) First off, balance is well done but rather weird. It's very based on play and counterplay, as well as what the GM allows, which may be the point. But to me, it feels like the PvP aspect takes away from just playing silly things. If you want to play something that isn't competitive based on what other people are playing, then you really don't get a whole lot of opportunities, especially based on the way it seems that GMs give RP opportunities to the winners of a roll.

2) This might just be from the people I'm playing with, but people seem to be...Immensely competitive, which again, I feel like takes away from the game. It's one thing to just RP. It's another to have someone taking every little advantage they have, IC and OOC, and excusing by saying, "Well, this game is just 'screw your neighbor', right? Why shouldn't I take every little advantage I have?".

First of all: Thank you! I feel like you've just put into words the concerns that've been nagging at me for a while. To be honest, I haven't been working much on the system lately, but the problem I've basically been wrestling with is this: "How do I make failure fun?" It's a problem right now, since the most entertaining part of the playing the game is (generally) roleplaying your character, and having the spotlight shifted away from you isn't fun.

One vague solution that's come to mind is to strongly recommend the inclusion of fleshed-out NPC characters other than the protagonist. Anything would do - the protagonist's little sister, his otaku best friend, the super-jock sports captain, the always-fantasizing yuri-loving schoolgirl... The players could even include NPCs with established connections to their characters, like their psycho lesbian stalker or childhood friend with a sadly unrequited crush. Then, whenever they fail at an attempt to interact with the protagonist, they're paired off in a scene with one of these other NPCs. It seems like this kind of storytelling would help build a bigger and more varied cast of characters, and might even result in some fun new relationships! But I don't have any gameplay mechanics in mind for this idea yet.

That's a fair point, though I'm not sure what the solution is. The source material is very much about girls competing with each other, so dialing down on the competition kind of takes away from that. On the other hand stretching all your mechanics as far as they can go does not always make for good RP.

Anyway, one thing I noticed which is kind of interesting is the system seems to punish specialization and reward generalization. Between game changers like Just as Planned, roll inhibitors like Misfortune Talisman, complete roll replacers like Shadow Out of Time and just plain not always being able to apply your number one roll due to the scenario generalizing so you always have two or so fall backs seems the optimul way to play.

This is actually a good thing for the most part, but it can lead to counter-intuitive character building since you only really the full extent of it once you're actually in a game. Most games reward specialization and punish 'jack of all trades, master of none' characters, while for the most part this one does the opposite. If you bring old assumptions in when building a character the results can be a little frustrating. A one sentence disclaimer in chracter building that says 'it's recommended you pick perks that boost multiple attributes rather than focusing on just one' would probably do the trick, since it's more player error than system error.

Sounds like a pretty good disclaimer to me!

[Illven]

But I don't have any gameplay mechanics in mind for this idea yet.

How do I crib off you for ideas then?

[Zerkai]

After seeing some things and thinking for a while, I was wondering if a Protagonist is even needed for a game, depending on the type. I was just in the mood to look for an anime slice-of-life-ish based system, cause a game in the vein of Lucky Star and Azumanga Daioh would sound pretty fun.

[BWR]

After seeing some things and thinking for a while, I was wondering if a Protagonist is even needed for a game, depending on the type. I was just in the mood to look for an anime slice-of-life-ish based system, cause a game in the vein of Lucky Star and Azumanga Daioh would sound pretty fun.

I'm not really sure this would be a good system for that. This is a competitive game, working against the other players. Would that sort of system really work in a SoL game? Do you really need a system for SoL in any case? That strikes me as a sort of genre you really only need freeform to run and rules would probably be pointless.

[Zerkai]

I'm not really sure this would be a good system for that. This is a competitive game, working against the other players. Would that sort of system really work in a SoL game? Do you really need a system for SoL in any case? That strikes me as a sort of genre you really only need freeform to run and rules would probably be pointless.

That's actually not so. Also freeform can get pretty bad because of the lack of rules and all. Any sort of slice-of-life or sandboxy kinda thing is a lot more fun when you have stats for your character. There are still things like competitions, skill challenges, Written down and in advance what your character's abilities are, and having advantages or penalties depending on those abilities or traits. And any strange stuff that can happen in an anime high school.

Just because it's slice of lifey and romance isn't the main focus doesn't mean there isn't any competition or conflict. =3

Though one of the big problems with one of these kinds of games IS that it's a competition and everyone has (Or is supposed to) have the same goal. I've only ever had the chance to be in one and it ruined that type of game for me for a long time. It was a MAID RPG game where I had rolled a double-Sexy character and the 'Master' was a Prince. The other players started teaming up against me right out the gate. Attacking my character, and due to a terribly scrappy call by the GM, being unallowed to actually fight back. I quit shortly after and stayed away from those kinds of games for a while.

[Angelalex242]

Well, it depends on which anime you're emulating.

There's a big difference between emulating Tenchi Muyo (which is more or less default for this game) and emulating Ah My Goddess.

[A Rainy Knight]

That's actually not so. Also freeform can get pretty bad because of the lack of rules and all. Any sort of slice-of-life or sandboxy kinda thing is a lot more fun when you have stats for your character. There are still things like competitions, skill challenges, Written down and in advance what your character's abilities are, and having advantages or penalties depending on those abilities or traits. And any strange stuff that can happen in an anime high school.

Just because it's slice of lifey and romance isn't the main focus doesn't mean there isn't any competition or conflict. =3

Though one of the big problems with one of these kinds of games IS that it's a competition and everyone has (Or is supposed to) have the same goal. I've only ever had the chance to be in one and it ruined that type of game for me for a long time. It was a MAID RPG game where I had rolled a double-Sexy character and the 'Master' was a Prince. The other players started teaming up against me right out the gate. Attacking my character, and due to a terribly scrappy call by the GM, being unallowed to actually fight back. I quit shortly after and stayed away from those kinds of games for a while.

I totally agree! I love the feeling of statting up a character and actually having defined strengths and weaknesses. And I'm not really a fan of PvP games... which probably sounds funny coming from someone who's basically building a PvP game. >.>

If I had to rationalize it, I'd say I like my game here the same way I like my D&D - as a structured storytelling device, rather than a game in its own end. I'm not someone who enjoys looking at classes and feats and stuff, putting together a mechanically strong combination of them, and coming up with fluff to suit it. I make the fluff first, and then translate that into the language of gameplay mechanics.

Now, as for your suggestion - it's probably possible to adapt this system for other high school anime shenanigans. It doesn't hurt that the harem protagonist barely appears at all in the mechanics! But I'll just keep building the system for harem comedies. I think the narrow focus helps me keep the game nice and simple.

I'll admit that coming up with a more general anime comedy role-playing system is something I've been wanting to do for a while now. Of course, my recent laziness with regards to working on this system really isn't helping! Maybe I'll put some more time in on it once the semester's over.

[Illven]

If I had to rationalize it, I'd say I like my game here the same way I like my D&D - as a structured storytelling device, rather than a game in its own end. I'm not someone who enjoys looking at classes and feats and stuff, putting together a mechanically strong combination of them, and coming up with fluff to suit it. I make the fluff first, and then translate that into the language of gameplay mechanics.

See I think the opposite usually.

I hope that doesn't creep into my dm'ing.

[Zerkai]

For me it's a bit of both really. Sometimes I have a character idea starting out that I want to see worked into the mechanics, or sometimes I'll look through feats, classes, and races and be inspired to do something with them, or to work something into a character, or into one I'm already making.

That's one of the reasons I love GURPS though, soley for character creation. Every perk or trait or anything or minor note about your character can be bought or taken as flaws, and it's all relevant to the mechanics.

[steelsmiter]

I totally agree! I love the feeling of statting up a character and actually having defined strengths and weaknesses. And I'm not really a fan of PvP games... which probably sounds funny coming from someone who's basically building a PvP game. >.>

Now, as for your suggestion - it's probably possible to adapt this system for other high school anime shenanigans. It doesn't hurt that the harem protagonist barely appears at all in the mechanics! But I'll just keep building the system for harem comedies. I think the narrow focus helps me keep the game nice and simple.

I've tried that. I think that it's possible if you don't go overboard with it. Mine failed for reasons I'd rather not get into other than to say that I tried to run it as an actiony VN with SoL aspects, and with Harem Comedy aspects. I tried kitchen sink, and it didn't work. I ended up burned out on gaming in general for about 3 months because of it. This is the first time coming back to it in the last 3 months since those other 3 months. I bet it's changed a lot. I hope so in some ways. I might consider running another game that's more focused.

I'll admit that coming up with a more general anime comedy role-playing system is something I've been wanting to do for a while now. Of course, my recent laziness with regards to working on this system really isn't helping! Maybe I'll put some more time in on it once the semester's over.

It's all good.

[Angelalex242]

Brawler is currently written as being exclusively against other PCs.

Is that intentional? Or is it intended to apply to all physical combat? (I would think it's all physical combat)

In our game, we just had a PC go GTA 5 on some cops. Should Brawler apply?

[Mutazoia]

Brawler is currently written as being exclusively against other PCs.

Is that intentional? Or is it intended to apply to all physical combat? (I would think it's all physical combat)

In our game, we just had a PC go GTA 5 on some cops. Should Brawler apply?

Well common sense would say that it applies in all physical combat situations. But then the game was never really designed to have any other NPC's besides Protagonist-kun, so I would hazard a guess and say it's up to the Principal to decide (since he/she is the one adding extra NPC's to the game).

If you are finding that you tend to add more NPC's and actual combat with them, you may want to switch to a system that is designed to handle that kind of thing...

[steelsmiter]

If you are finding that you tend to add more NPC's and actual combat with them, you may want to switch to a system that is designed to handle that kind of thing...

BESM for example. I have Social Combat rules for 3rd ed on this site, and it handles other kinds of combat quite nicely.

[Esprit15]

It was more about the thug-y character charging away from a cop. Could also I suppose be used in some types of competitions to impress protagonist-kun.

[Anubis Dread]

The aforementioned thug in question (seriously, Sukeban is a fun archetype ) asking a quick question with no relation to that whatsoever.

When does Doujinshi Enthusiast trigger in terms of when declaring advantages etc in relation to other rolls? The more I think about it, the more complicated it gets so I'll break down what I'm asking in terms of bullet points:

-Can you use or activate advantages between the Doujinshi Enthusiast roll and the difficulty roll in question? For example, could you use Doujinish Enthusiast, then activate Deep Freeze after the roll has been made to avoid the penalty, then roll the difficulty roll?

-Speaking of which, does the Doujinshi Enthusiast roll count as a roll for the purpose of the duration of Thaw Out and Deep Freeze once they've been activated?

-If it doesn't, would it still get the penalty or bonus in question?

-Does it count as your 'next Luck roll' in general in relation to other advantages? Does it count as a 'failed luck roll' if you fail to get the bonus?

[Angelalex242]

Just as planned vs. Multiple winners.

In a scene, 2 VP were given for the highest 2 rolls, 1 vp was given for third and 4th place.

The highest rolls were 11, 9, 9, 7.

The Just as planned user got the 7 naturally and successfully sniped off first place.

Does the Planned user get 3 VP? (took 1st place by power and rolled 4th on her own), or does she get 2 and the person who rolled an 11 gets 1, taking the 7 the user rolled naturally?

Also, what happens with just as planned vs. tie for first place? Does it still snipe off a winner? Does it fail to go off as there is no winner?

[Arutha]

Just as planned vs. Multiple winners.

In a scene, 2 VP were given for the highest 2 rolls, 1 vp was given for third and 4th place.

The highest rolls were 11, 9, 9, 7.

The Just as planned user got the 7 naturally and successfully sniped off first place.

Does the Planned user get 3 VP? (took 1st place by power and rolled 4th on her own), or does she get 2 and the person who rolled an 11 gets 1, taking the 7 the user rolled naturally?

Also, what happens with just as planned vs. tie for first place? Does it still snipe off a winner? Does it fail to go off as there is no winner?

I would think that they would take first place, and shift everyone down by one.
In the second place I would say that after the tie breaker(if you use one) if she's still right then she gets it.

In other news, speaking as a theater nerd, this game needs a theater nerd archetype. For people who love Broadway and the like.

[Angelalex242]

Is 'Contingency Plan' invoked before or after the die is rolled?

[Lentrax]

Before. The verbiage says that when you make a roll, you instead roll twice and use the better result. I if it were intended to be after, it would have said, "Twice per episode, after making a die roll! you may roll again and keep the better result."

[Anubis Dread]

In one of our game threads I posted a basic build guide and tier list because some of the players felt like they'd unintentionally gimped their characters during character creation. Since it got a pretty positive reception I decided to clean it up a bit, shift things around and post it here. That said since this game is pretty laid back and simple this is much more of a 'how to' guide than a tier list, even though it's formatted as the latter.

So first off - this game is awesome. I've had more fun playing it than anything in a long time. That said, I've seen some people get dismayed with how their girls are a little sub-optimal because they didn't really understand how the system works. As such this tier list is designed to give them a little advice and show how it applies to the archetypes they can choose from.

A few things about what's good and what's not in this system:

Generalization is better than specialization. In general about half of the rolls in a scenario will have the opportunity to use a certain ability. As such you stand a better chance of winning if you can win just 60% of all rolls on average rather than even 100% of the rolls of only a single ability.

The exception: Some abilities allow you to apply one type of roll to another. This means that for SOME builds specialization is a good thing, but you need to pick the right abilities and archetypes. This can be very powerful, but if you aren't careful you can unintentionally gimp yourself. Builder beware.

Consistency is generally better than novaing. There are two reasons for this. The first is 'gotcha!' abilities like Just as Planned or Taking You With Me - these mean that if you boost your bonus too high others will just pull the rug under you. The other reason is that in general the average difficult for an unopposed roll is 5, and unopposed rolls take up about 2/3rds of all rolls you'll make. You don't need huge numbers for these, just consistent ones.

The exception: Some GMs use high difficult, high reward unopposed rolls, such as a D10 or D12 difficulty test for twice the usual VP. In this case novaing can actually be a good idea, though you're still better off with one of the 'auto-win once per episode' abilities.

General flats and boosts are better than specific flats. This is an extension of the first point, but it's a little trickier. Rolls that boost any roll you make are pretty rare, and often conditional. That said, you should almost ALWAYS take them when you can. As above one specific trait will usually comprise 50% of the rolls in a scene. This means that a +2 bonus to any roll applicable only half the time is actually BETTER than a +2 bonus to one type of ability that applies anything less than 100% of the time. 'Boosts to any rolls' are awesome, take them.

The exception: Rolls that boost only opposed rolls, or only unopposed rolls a certain number of people are attempting are little better than attribute boosters, and can actually be worst depending.

Always have at least a few limited use abilities. You don't need more than one or two, though you can go ham and have nothing but limited use abilities if you want and still be competitive. Having a few tricks is both more optimal and more fun than having nothing but flats. That said, some tricks are better than others, and add complexity to the character. If you're a newbie try not to have more than two advantages that aren't just flat bonuses. If you're an expert you could probably get away with more.

The exception: There are a few advantages that have limited uses that are awful outside of specific builds. Be careful when choosing.

Auto-wins are awesome. This is why Just as Planned and Down and Dirty are two of the best ability in the game - they pretty much guarantee TWO wins per episode unless the other girls are very careful. Most other auto-wins are only once per episode, but even they are great. That said, remember 'consistency is better than novaing'. Don't pick more than one or two auto-wins or you'll have trouble just rolling normally.

The exception: Auto-wins aren't good enough for you to pick up an archetype just by themselves. As above you don't want many auto-wins, so getting stuck in an otherwise mediocre for your build archetype for one auto-win is not a good thing to do. That said, they are EXCELLENT pick ups if you're using Quirks.

With that in mind, let's work out way through the advantages and assign them tiers! Before that though, a brief glossary of terms in case you get lost in the explanation of why something is in the tier it is.

Spoiler: Glossary

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Flats – Advantages that apply a flat bonus to a check that are not limited in use. Good flats apply about half of the time, though anywhere above a quarter is an okay pick.

General Flats – Flats that apply a boost not limited to a certain ability. You can make any ability roll you want and still apply the bonus as long as the condition is met.

'Practically a General Flat' – If a flat boosts two different abilities it's good enough to be considered a General Flat for the purpose of pick priority.

Auto-Win – As it says, a limited use advantage that causes you to automatically win a roll. If an ability would provide a huge bonus to a roll (about +4 or so) then it's considered to be an auto-win as the chance of failure is very small. That said, true auto-wins make you, well, auto-win.

Booster – A limited use advantage that doesn't auto-win the roll, but does apply a consistent bonus that's usually general in nature. These are good abilities and can definitely help hit those unopposed rolls. A two use booster is sometimes better than a single use auto-win.

'Find The Plot' Advantage – This is an advantage that helps you when you're looking for the protagonist, or the protagonist is looking for you. These are awful. Usually you won't ever be separated from the group, so an advantage that helps you find them will on average activate once an episode at best. It's probably closer to once every two episodes really. Do not pick these.

Generalist – A girl who takes advantages that allow them to consistently hit multiple ability rolls. If you aren't going for one of the more gimmicky builds this should be the default. A good generalist should have at least one general flat like School Queen or Gift Giver, reliable non-general flat or two like Splash Magnet or Bruiser, a few minor boosts like Personality Flip or Fortune Talisman, and perhaps a big ability or two such as Just as Planned or Dazzling Display. As the name suggests a Generalists aims to have a little of everything to cover as many situations as possible.

Specialist – A girl who takes advantages that focus on a single ability, but then takes other advantages that allows them to apply that ability to other rolls. Their flats should generally be focused on being reliable for the ability they add to, such as Shameless or Fearsome Reputation. They NEED some abilities that allow them to apply that ability elsewhere to function, such as Murderous Love or Huh? What? If you have any advantages left over it might be worth while to pick up either a general flat or a booster like Overcharge or Doujinshi Enthusiast, but often a Specialist will have to use all of their advantages on their respective niche.

Nova Build – A build devoted to auto-winning as many important rolls as possible. They often suffer during run of the mill unopposed rolls, but shine on opposed rolls. The nova build is high risk, high reward.

Consistent Build – A build devoted to having enough flats and boosts to win as many unopposed rolls as possible. They often suffer during opposed rolls to an extent, but will win more often on average than the nova build. That said the nova build will win when it's more important for them to. The consistent build is low risk, average reward, meaning unless your GM has a lot of high value VP in opposed rolls or high difficulty ones consistent builds will usually win over nova builds in the long run.

'The Suicide Build' – A specific type of nova build that relies on losing rolls to set up several winning rolls in a row. In order for this build to work, you require Down and Dirty. After that pick a combination of advantages that let you take a penalty/lose in order to gain a benefit such as Personality Flip and Taking You With Me, and advantages that trigger when you lose such as Now It's On or Colorful Cursing. By losing one roll, you can make Down and Dirty's bonus huge, use certain advantages that induce a penalty without worrying if you win or lose and still reap their benefit and trigger your bonuses for the upcoming rolls. This build isn't necessarily powerful, but it makes use of many otherwise useless advantages and is definitely fun.

There are three Tiers – Tier 3, Tier 2, and Tier 1. In order to qualify for being a Tier 2 archetype, an archetype must meet one of the following conditions:

A general flat that is wildly applicable of +2 value OR reliable ability flats spread across at least two types of attributes that total at least +2 in value each.

Good limited use abilities that add up to the equivalent of at least a +8 bonus or so to your rolls across an episode. Auto-wins are the equivalent of a +4 boost.

Tier 1s not only have one of these things, but have BOTH. Tiers 3s on the other hand have NEITHER. There is also Tier 0 (breaks the game in some fundamental fashion even if they don't technically qualify for tier 1) but there's only 2 archetypes that fit that bill and one of them is a rule variant.

Keep in mind that tiers don't necessarily reflect power, but more how useful it will be to you on average. You can pretty much mix and match any combination of tier for your two archetypes and be fine. Tier 3s may not be all that impressive, but some are great for the Specialist build.. By the same token Tier 1's sometimes lack focus, which lower tiers can provide. The exception is Tier 0, since that classification is based purely on raw power, but even a Tier 0 can be fine at a game as long as they aren't abused.

The only thing I will outright say you should NEVER do when making a character is combine two Tier 3 archetypes. You'll be pulled in two different directions at once or be stuck on one, with no limited use advantages to dig yourself out of the hole you unwittingly threw yourself into. Other than that, any combination can be a good competitor.


Alright, let's get this party started!

Spoiler: Tier 3 Archetypes

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Genki
Genki's only good ability is Overclock. Granted it's a very good ability, and perhaps even worth picking up with a Quirk, but it isn't good enough to save the class. Hypercharged is a great ability in theory - get twice as much VP from a roll! But the penalty is too big to use it reliably. This changes if you're using a super nova build like the Suicide Build where you'll auto-pass both rolls no matter what, but other than that it's pretty terrible. Butt In isn't very good, as scene splits are rather rare. Even if you're playing with a DM that loves splitting scene it's still only a +1 bonus. Granted it's a general bonus, but that's just not good enough. Morning Person at best applies to the first half of the episode, which using the math above would mean it applies 25% of the time on a REALLY good day – nowhere near a good pick.

Shrinking Violet
Quiet Patience is a nice catch up mechanism, but since 2/3rds of your rolls will be unopposed and you should be hitting most of your unopposed rolls, it triggering more than once or twice an episode means something has gone HORRIBLY wrong. The other abilities are far too situational. Scaredy-Cat will only reliably trigger in a Halloween episode, and you'll be lucky to trigger it once an episode otherwise. Shrinking Shadows is better, but it's basically a 'Find The Plot' advantage. Shrinking Shadows is slightly better than most as it can in theory be used even with the rest of the group present, but it's still only going to be triggered once or twice an episode tops. Vulnerable is fun to play out and can reliably trigger, but a +2 bonus to Luck does not a Tier 2 make.

Pervert
It pains me to say this because it's hilarious, but the Pervert is not a good archetype. Each of it's advantages boosts a different ability, which would be fine... except Panty Thief only applies to thievery, Peeping Tom is one of those annoying 'Find The Plot' abilities, and Wandering Hands is only a +1 bonus on an opposed roll the archetype doesn't boost otherwise. Shameless on the others hands is damn good, but that basically means this archetype amounts to a consistent +2 to Allure and occasional +2 to Skill - not enough to get to Tier 2.

Half-Foreign
Half-Foreign is quite good for a Tier 3. It has relatively consistent bonuses that trigger easily. Kanji Illiterate is quite good, and both Quaint Greeting and Culture Enthusiast give a bonus to a wide array of rolls. If Stand Out and Culture Enthusiast gave a +2 instead of a +1 this would be a middle of the road Tier 2. Unfortunately they do not, and thus it remains a Tier 3.

Chuunibyou
Technically speaking the Chunnibyou is only a point or two away from being Tier 2. Technically. That doesn't actually make it GOOD though. The qualifiers that almost make it break the tier limit is that it has an auto-win (Destiny's Bond) and a roll booster (Sealed Power). Sealed Power will on average give a +2 to +3 bonus on any roll it triggers on, so that means that with the auto-win it passes the +8 bonus bar right? Well... no. Sealed Power only triggers on a 1. And though it CAN be used up to three times per day, it rarely WILL. Most episodes are about 10 scenes long, which means it will only trigger somewhere between once or twice on average. It's close, but not good enough to pass the +8 bar. Also, Multiple Personalities is awful – you can't see into the future, making switching your stats irrelevant for anything but the current roll. So it's basically a one time +1 boost, or +2 boost if it's your weak stat. Pass.

Sukeban
I love this archetype. So, so much. It is physically painful how much it SUCKS for how good a concept it is. Bruiser is a strictly worst Warrior's Way, Truant is a 'Find The Plot' ability and though both Fearsome Reputation and Violence is always the answer are good, this means the archetype has no usage restricted abilities and no reliable ability boosters that aren't conflict. A good supplement if you're going for a Conflict specialist, but you'll never pick more than one or two abilities from it. If you're picking more than that from here, you are doing something wrong.

School Journalist
Snoop is a 'Find The Plot', so instead we're left with two conditional Skill boosts and a pretty reliable Allure booster. Head Author is pretty reliable for an unreliable ability, as is Keen Eye, but neither hits that necessary sweet spot to be applicable all the time. That means we're relying on Muckraker, which is great, but it's still just +2 Allure. This is probably the best Tier 3 archetype, but it isn't Tier 2.

Universal Advantages
Though not an archetype, none of the Universal Advantages are worth pushing the list into Tier 2 status. That said, there are a few you should consider. Splash Magnet is actually better than a lot of Tier 2 advantages. Though more conditional, Natural Swimmer and Star Gazer can reliably trigger depending on how lenient your GM is. Ignore every other advantage here unless you want them for flavor reasons.

Spoiler: Tier 2 Archetypes

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Yandere
The Yandere is an excellent class. It has advantages that boost literally EVERY ability (except Luck because Stalker is yet another 'Find The Plot'), and Murderous Love in particular is useful for a specialist looking to eek that extra mile out of Conflict. That said, it has no general boosters, all of it's advantages only boost exactly one ability (usually conditionally) and it has no big effects unless you count Murderous Love which, while awesome, doesn't really equal a +8 bonus by itself. Any build paired with it will find at least one or two nice abilities to snatch to broaden their range, but on it's own the Yandere doesn't quite match the requirements for Tier 1.

Bokukko
Down and Dirty is my favorite advantage in the game. It leads to incredibly silly and fun builds if you take advantage of it, and even if you don't it still provides a solid 3-5 point bonus twice per episode (meaning it qualifies for that magic +8 all by itself). Of course it can instead be a +8 to +11 bonus twice per episode if you combine it with things like Personality Flip and Taking You With Me. It's not the most optimal build, but it is HILLARIOUS! The rest of the archetype is good too, just not good enough to boost it to Tier 1 status. Unless you're dumping Allure you should always pick Boyish Charm, as though it's only a +1 it is ALWAYS on, pretty much no matter what. If you are going the Allure route Now It's On can be a nice fail safe (or a good pick up for the suicide build), and One of the Guys can be either great or terribad depending on the character of the protagonist. All in all it's a strong archetype, but lacks the consistency necessary for Tier 1.

Osananajimi
The Osanajimi gets to Tier 2 because it breaks the rules. Old Friends means you get a small amount of bonus VP each episode. No interference, no annoying Just as Planned, nothing. Just straight up VP. This alone isn't enough to get to Tier 2, but the novaing abilities of Big Gamble and Simpler Times definitely is. If this archetype had reliably flats it would be Tier 1, but though Playful Blackmail is very good for a one ability booster, the only general boost it has in Nostalgic Memories is very hard to trigger, enough so it's an exception to the 'pick general boost where possible' rule. If you have a very small group (like two or three people) this archetype may be Tier 1, but otherwise tier 2 it remains.

Dojikko
ONE more advantage and the Dojikko would be Tier 1. Just ONE. It has a very reliable Luck booster in the form of Accident-Prone – you can pretty much use it on every Luck roll if you play things right. It has an interesting and powerful ability in Taking you With me which is awesome in the suicide build (though inadvisable otherwise), and has an auto-pass in Easily Forgiven. If it had ONE more reliable ability booster that wasn't Luck it would be Tier 1 easily. As is stands, it's close but no cigar.

Meganekko
What. Just... WHAT?! How could this class be Tier 2?! Just as Planned would be enough for Tier 2 on it's own, but between Contingency Plan and Foresight the Meganekko has enough boosts going on it should be higher! ...except that Contingency Plan only works if you have some flat boosts to help. And the only flats the Meganekko gets is an unreliable Skill booster in the form of Honor Student. This archetype is the most heavily Quirked from in the game for good reason, but by itself? Not quite there. That said, despite not having the flats necessary to stand on it's own this is arguably stronger than some Tier 1's.

Idol Singer
An auto-win in Security Detail would be enough for a high tier 3, but it's the flats that push it over the edge into Tier 2. but Star Quality is enough to send this to tier 2. Star Quality is decent as rolls all the girls are trying are bound to happen at least twice an episode between a lot of girls choosing to focus on Allure or Conflict and rolls which only allow you to roll one specific ability. Kira Kira sounds conditional, but remember it triggers on ANY costume. It's arguably easier to trigger than Shameless, which we know is good. Idol Talent is also reliable making this a Tier 2 archetype. Or well, it's reliable if you don't get embarrassed about your character spontaneously bursting into song every now and again.

Miko
The Miko has some great boosting and penalizing abilities. Most notably Fortune Talisman is the best 'twice per episode you get +2' ability in the game, and Practiced Grace is incredible. It's like Sealed Power, except good! The problem is the other abilities don't work too well. A -1 penalty to all the other girls when they attempt Luck is decent, but nothing to write home about. A blanket -2 to Luck is awful, as Luck tends to be rarely used. The flat bonuses of both Maiden's Garb and Shrine Caretaker are not reliable at all. All in all it has some nice abilities, but not the flats to back them up.

Sports Star
Both Athletic and Runner's Glow are pretty reliable. Make sure to pick something nice and reliable for your Athletic Sport though, like sprinting. Run everywhere and not only will it be linked to your sport but you'll always be sweaty for Runner's Glow! Alright more likely each will be active a little over half the time, but that's still enough to be reliable. Competitive Spirit is pretty good as outlined in Idol Singer, and Do Your Best despite helping the other girls helps you far more as you can choose when to trigger it. Self Improvement is a bit meh though, and Second Wind is a strictly worst version of Down and Dirty. All in all Athletic and Runner's Glow carry this into Tier 2, but the other abilities are conditional at best.

Martial Artist
Warrior's Way should apply to almost every Conflict roll if you play your cards right. This alone wouldn't be enough, but you also have an auto-win that's ACTUALLY an auto-win - Heir to the Dojo works on EVERY type of roll! That's nuts! Gorgeous Gi will not always trigger, but it's reliable enough that with Warrior's Way I'm counting it as two reliable flats, this Tier 2. Practice Kata might have been enough to boost this to Tier 1 if the Martial Artist had any skill or general boosts to go with it, but as it is it doesn't really get you that far. This is pretty close to Tier 1 though.

Spoiler: Tier 1 Archetypes

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Tsundere
As you'd expect from the most famous harem girl archetype of all time the Tsundere is strong. Cold Shoulder is an auto-win, and Less is More will usually be a +4 in its own right. These alone would be enough to potentially earn Tier 2, but Personality Flip and Gift Giver push it to Tier 1 - Personality Flip can apply to any roll, and Gift Giver boosts two stats and is widely applicable, making it only a little worse than a general. Verbal Barrage will be relevant to almost any Conflict roll to boot, meaning that the Tsundere has two good nova abilities, two reliable flats and one advantage that's a little of both – a great combination.

Kuudere
Thaw Out and Deep Freeze are EXTREMELY powerful. They each boost two rolls for three rounds with no conditions, and though there is indeed a risk involved it will rarely come into play. In other words, most of the time they'll both supply a +6 over three rolls, which is great. These abilities alone would qualify them for Tier 2, but Poker Face pushes it over the edge. Poker Face is arguably the most easily applicable general flat in the entire game - all you need to do is lie during your check and you get a +2. Simple as that. The only non-ability on here is Stay Cool, as it is extremely conditional and expressively doesn't combine with the Kuudere's other abilities. That said the other three by themselves are enough to push Kuudere to Tier 1 status.

Ojou
Dazzling Display, Graceful, and Hired Muscles are huge game changers. Renaissance Lady is good for a specialist build, but what really pushes this build to Tier 1 is School Queen. A flat bonus to any roll as long as it involves NPC students (which is like 90% of all rolls in school, which in turn is half to a bit more than half of all scenarios) makes up for the Ojou's lack of other flats. The only downside to Ojou is you will be tempted to skimp on other flats to gain all these sweet, sweet abilities.

Iinchou
This barely qualifies for Tier 1, but does so for three main reasons. The first is Connections - this is roughly equivalent in power to School Queen (doesn't trigger as much in school but can trigger outside of it), which as we discussed is awesome. The second is Serious Business. Serious Business is BRUTAL. Allure is one of the most commonly chosen attributes to focus on, and just being able to penalize it twice per episode means that though it TECHNICALLY isn't a +8 bonus, the amount of VP it can cost your rivals makes it a pretty close equivalent. The third is that though it's other abilities aren't OUTSTANDING, they are reliable - Over Achiever is consistent, and if you interpret the 'looking for' in Problem Solver to not be literally, physically searching (which would thus make it another 'Find the Plot' ability, and thus useless) then it's pretty reliable too. It's basically just a weaker Ojou, but still hits all the same sweet spots to be tier 1.

Sensei-Chan
First off, Sensei-Chan is often banned for icky reasons, so always check with your GM before making one. However if it isn't banned it's a good pick up. Desperately Single and Get Wasted are basically Thaw Out and Deep Freeze light, Advisor is a reliable boost, Everyone's Big Sis is School Queen which we KNOW is awesome. Both Insane Driver and Scolding can be reliable penalties. Conflict isn't as common as Allure, but when it shows up people usually spec for it, so it can be quite painful to penalize.

Otaku
What's the Otaku's big ability? Genre Savy. The substitution abilities are great, though usually not enough to qualify for Tier 1 by themselves unless there are a lot of great flats going on. And boy are there. Cosplay Enthusiast is a boost to both Skill AND Allure, practically making it a general bonus. Moe Enthusiast can be nice, and Amateur Novelist is not completely reliable but reliable enough. Doujinshi Enthusiast is 1.5 +2s per episode with no down side as well, which covers any difference between that magic 8 and what Genre Savy will usually give you nicely. Tier 1 fits the Otaku
perfectly.

Spoiler: Tier 0

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Cuckoolander
The Cuckoolander by itself isn't too bad. You have some decent abilities, but no flats, so Tier 2 right? This would be true, except when used in the specialist build it COMPLETELY BREAKS THE GAME! Specialists and Generalists are balanced against each other by the fact that any given ability will usually only show up for one half of the rolls in any given episodes. Since the average episode is about 10 scenes, that means about 5 of a specialists rolls will be auto-successes and 5 will be auto-fails (an oversimplification, but roll with it). A GOOD specialist breaks this rule with something like Murderous Love or Genre Savy, which means they instead only need to deal with three auto-fails. The Cuckoolander however, just by itself, covers for ALL FIVE POSSIBLE AUTO-FAILS! This means if combined with even a Tier 3 specialist archetype it is PRETTY MUCH GOING TO AUTO-SUCCEED ON EVERY ROLL! The reason? Non-Sequitor, Huh? What? And Odd Roll. Non-Sequitar's penalty is meaningless for a specialist, and Huh? What? Is basically one round of Non-Sequitar without the penalty. Odd Roll isn't all that impressive – you're probably better off pouching one of the above advantages from another class – but it means that those two remaining auto-fails will usually at least have a 50/50 shot of still being a win. In anything but a specialist build the Cuckoolander is a nice Tier 2, but in a well built one it breaks the game. Thankfully this is only really an issue with fairly experienced players, most of whom I'd like to think know to avoid going QUITE this far.

The Supernatural archetypes are optional, and thus were not included in the above. That said, if you're using the rule set they're worth ranking. Keep in mind however that the Supernatural archetypes are VERY good. If you are using this rule set you should always choose one, even if you intend to make a gimmick build.

Spoiler: Supernatural Archetypes

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Universal Monstrous Advantages – Tier 2
It says a lot about these archetypes that even their universal advantages are a whole tier above the base universal advantages. Touchy Spot is effectively a +2 bonus to all Allure rolls if you play your cards right. It has a downside, but if you have Skill as your dump stat anyway it's almost a must have. Elemental Affinity is about on par with the Tsunderes Gift Giver, which we already discussed is awesome. It might trigger slightly more often, but you can choose ANY TWO ABILITIES with it to get the bonus! The only meh bonus here is Solar Powered. It'll be on a lot of the time, but it's a small enough bonus it being so often won't matter.

Celestial – Tier 2
Serenity is pretty good. As discussed way back up at the top you can expect to see any given roll about half the time, so about half the time this will be active. That said it's only twice per episode. Compassion is pretty damn good too – it's a slightly weaker Just as Planned in that you pick a winner and get VP, but you get less VP and the winner still gets there's. Still, a slightly weaker Just as Planned is still amazing. The other abilities are unfortunately not nearly as powerful (though Blessed Comfort is more reliable than it appears), so Celestial is stuck at Tier 2.

Demon – Tier 2
Temptation is amazing. Not only does it give you a +2 bonus to an Allure roll, but unless one of the other girls intentionally tries to mess you up you're almost guaranteed to get that sweet +1 boost to your next roll as well. Unfortunately it's the demon's only good ability. Torment only triggers is the girls are already at a disadvantage, and Speak of the Devil is a 'Find The Plot'. Faustian Pact is at least a nice budget Fortune Talisman, but a budget Fortune Talisman isn't exactly a good advantage.

Eldritch Abomination – Tier 0
I am not kidding. Eldritch Abomination is this powerful. And unlike the Cuckoolander you don't even need to work to make it Tier 0. Why is this? By itself it has two advantages that give it effectively THREE auto-wins, ALL of which are completely independent of any other build decisions you make. Not only that, one of those auto-wins is an auto-lose for every other girl. A Thousand Faces is incredible (especially in the Suicide build), and Shadow Out of Time is the best advantage in the game by a huge, HUGE margin. Shining Trapezohedron is unfortunately another 'Find The Plot', but Crawling Chaos can be an excellent general boost depending on the other girls. Even without these two though, just pick a Thousand Faces, pick Shadow Out of Time, and build whatever you want from your other archetypes and you'll STILL probably win.

Vampire – Tier 2
Lady of Darkness looks like it's just a reversed Morning Person, but it really isn't. For one thing episodes set late at night are more common than episodes set in the early morning. Secondly it also activates in darkness, which is pretty easy to set up just by flipping a few light switches. That's a slight exaggeration, but it's still pretty reliable. Vampiric Drain is great if you're a nova class or have a few auto-wins. Sanguine Kiss can be quite potent depending on the character of the protagonist as well.

Catgirl – Tier 1
What makes Catgirl Tier 1? Well first off there's Hiss and Nine Lives, two ways to give you a nice boost to Conflict. Nine Lives is actually very good in this respect because Luck is often hard to utilize. The other bonuses Catgirl gets are all flats, but they're all GOOD flats. Cat Nap can trigger pretty much whenever you want if you're happy making a narcoleptic, Catlike Reflexes applies to almost every Skill roll except for knowledge ones, and Animal Affinity is a borderline general flat. Animal Affinity seems like it would be hard to set up, but just carry a pet around and you can trigger it at will. That said, the reason Catgirl is Tier 1 is you can game Animal Affinity and Cat Nap extremely easily. If your GM puts their foot down and rules that no, you cannot carry a cat wherever you go and fall asleep at-will this becomes Tier 2.

[Angelalex242]

Error: Serenity is not a flat. As player of Verthandi, I know. It's a twice per ep. Sorry.



Serenity: Your rise above the dirty tricks and fighting of your competitors to attain a peaceful state of enlightenment. Twice per episode, +2 on a non-Conflict roll if you had the option of making a Conflict roll instead.

Serenity is actually a strictly worse fortune talisman.

[Anubis Dread]

Right you are, that actually knocks it down a Tier. Though it's still very good for where it is.

[Angelalex242]

Blessed Comfort is EXTREMELY terrible, personally. Until I spun it as 'any white magic use', it came up NEVER in all the episodes we did with Illven.

I'd say it's Tier 3 myself, because Blessed Comfort is terribad without manipulation of the GM and verbage pretty badly.

But in the proper, strict interpretation of the rules, unless somebody is physically injured, it doesn't come up. It doesn't even technically apply to emotional healing by default, so somebody crying is not sufficient excuse for it.

[A Rainy Knight]

Whoa, that's an amazing write-up! Thank you for doing it!

I... haven't really being keeping up with this system for a while now, so I'm glad people are still enjoying it as it is. That said, after reading how things are turning out in practice, it seems like there are a few kinks that could easily be ironed out:
-Removal or strengthening of 'Find the Plot' advantages
-Addition of advantages to the low-tier archetypes
-Strengthening of obviously crappy advantages like Multiple Personalities

Now, I just have to get around to actually doing these things sometime! And of course adding some new stuff would be nice.

Sorry for missing any questions in the meantime!

[Esprit15]

I know in one game I'm in it was proposed that a Hammerspace related advantage be made, since that is surprisingly absent from all classes despite being rather popular in some anime. Let me go find it...

I love the mental image of this even though the GM would rarely if ever allow that. There needs to be a Hammerspace Portal trait.

"Wait, where did she get that baseball bat fro-" *WHAM*
Once per scene, you may pull out something that you really should not have any access to given the current location, or that of the object in question. Some examples include weapons (such as those for Armed and Dangerous) or lost items magically making it into your possession. You may gain a +2 bonus on any roll. The object must actually be helpful to the scene.

[Angelalex242]

I'd suggest Self Improvement (and Purity) be reworded as 'You no longer have a weak roll. Abilities that target weak rolls don't apply to you.' 3 per ep +1 to weak rolls just isn't effective enough. If that's still not potent enough, it could be modified to also apply an additional +1 to the strong roll.

Poker Face probably needs to have some sort of limit put on it...there's only so many times you can lie to the protagonist before he throws the liar overboard, after all.

Upgrade Brawler to be equal to Warrior's Way, so they don't stack anymore. Currently they do stack.

Remove the penalty from Hypercharged.

I'd like if Serenity were in fact the flat Anubis thought it was. :)