Making Fun of: The Book of Vile Darkness

[Gligarman2]

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[StreamOfTheSky]

Uh... I don't think either of those is much to be upset about.

Love's Pain is completely pointless d-baggery, the exact sort of petty thing an evil sort of person would research.

The "heart in a doggy bag" spell (I don't know why; your description made me think of the scene from Dumb and Dumber) isn't broken unless it's very low level, since D&D is *filled* with save or die spells already. As for the thematics / description of it...that's actually pretty metal. Sure beats getting knocked unconscious by a trainee wizard's "taste the rainbow" blast and unceremoniously coup de grace'd as a way to go down.

Now, to actually add one of my own...uh... I forget if it was BoVD or BoED that said S&M kinkiness was evil, but that was total bs.

[Scow2]

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You must be new here.

First off, the BoVD is a DM supplement, not a player's guide. And, if you don't know what spells your players have access to (First off - No spells in the BoVD are available to players, nor is any other content)

Love's Pain is also quite a nice thematic spell - Being a jerk is what Evil is all about. A lot of players don't give a crap about what happens to their characters, especially if they're good - They're heroes, if they win, they win. If they lose, they get to reroll, their character's soul goes to Paradise, and/or they get a resurrection. Being used as a conduit to harm or kill someone they care about, though, can rattle them. Of course, in the hands of a PC, it's combined with Mind Rape on a commoner to kill anyone anywhere, using the commoner's defenses. The Heartclutch spell is no worse than any other Save-or-Die, although it's essentially Early Access Finger of Death. Or Slay Living... but even then, it has a 1d3 round "Grace Period" in which a Heal spell can negate it.

[Water_Bear]

First off, the BoVD is a DM supplement, not a player's guide. And, if you don't know what spells your players have access to (First off - No spells in the BoVD are available to players, nor is any other content)

Bwah? Where does it say that?

[Deophaun]

Bwah? Where does it say that?

Page 4, under "Hide This Book!"

[Grod_The_Giant]

Bwah? Where does it say that?

HIDE THIS BOOK!
Book of Vile Darkness is for Dungeon Masters (DMs) only. Just
as you would keep the contents of a published adventure to
yourself, restrict your players’ access to this book as well.
Don’t let them know what’s in store for their characters.

Love's Pain is kind of situational, but can be cool. Imagine if you're an adventurer, out in the middle of doing whatever, and WHAM! 10d6 damage! Immediately afterwards, a Sending, saying that they have your wife. Or, if their "closest friend" is another PC, it's a no-save, no-SR damage spell.

I dunno what you're talking about with Heartclutch. It's on the same level as the first SoD (slay living), gets a range at the cost of a slight delay, and, I mean... dude, that's the most awesome save-or-die I've seen in the game.

[Ravian]

My main problem was that some evil spells, with the descriptor and everything, just don't seem that evil. Some of the evil cantrips come to mind.

For example: Tongue Cut, creates a thin cut on the targets tongue, causing 1 point of damage and gives a -1 penalty to various abilities due to the pain for a turn. Somehow this is more evil than acid splash, which does more damage and probably more horrific aesthetic effects than a cut tongue.

Another Level 0 one is preserve organ. Obviously the main purpose is to keep sacrificial regents fresh but come on think of the other non-evil benefits. Like making a killer profit off of selling gourmet duck liver pate across the ocean without the danger of it rotting on a long sea voyage. Butchers everywhere would pay good money for a low level adept or a wand with that spell in a world without refridgeration.

[Brookshw]

Bwah? Where does it say that?

Right in the opening as someone points out. It's not a book intended for players, and with good reason considering spells that on a successful save leave the Target incapacitated for 1-3 rounds (not to mention others that deal 10d6 damage to everything in a 10 mile radius/level), lots of things are simply mean (like sadismm plus previously mentioned apocalypse from the sky). It's a great book for story related purposes, but something to be used sparingly against players in combat related situations.

[Pokonic]

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Both of these are perfectly legit. Targeting one's loved one's is a tactic used by plenty of evil individuals over and over again, and a spell that does that, and in a rather hard-hitting way at that, fits perfectly. Also, as for the heart-grab spell, if your PC's are using a spell like that against the BBEG, something has gone terribly wrong in your party. Also, it's a very nice spell to throw around to show that the bad guy isn't screwing around, especially on important NPC's.

As for Tongue Cut's evilness, I think it's because of the pure pettiness it implies for the caster to know a spell that only targets a vulnerable part of the body and just that for the purpose of making someone shut up. That's it. There's plenty of hypothetical (key word here) uses for conjuring a small vats worth of acid, but there's only one reason why someone would make a painful cut appear on someone's tongue: to cause pain.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Also, I'm just recalling Dark Speech and..."The Worm that Walks"(?)

I tried to forget...

[Aolbain]

Hey, some of my most useful spells comes from BoVD (evil campaign).

[Alex12]

Man, I'm in an evil campaign right now, and my backup character is going to be using some of the stuff so hard.

Regarding the evil tag, I often ignore those. After all, Deathwatch has that, and seriously, how is that evil?

And the whole "teleport target heart into your hand" spell is awesome. Because seriously, how is that not cool?

What I think is dumb is how there's a whole section on diseases, and then there's the Cancer Mage. That would work, if some of those diseases didn't have beneficial effects. I mean, seriously. That's not even, like, the interaction of different effects from 3 different sourcebooks, it's broken in the same sourcebook.
I do kinda wish the diseases were available with Contagion, though.

[Ravian]

I also did find the Cancer Mage prc a little ridiculous, mainly from the idea of an intelligent evil tumor. It reminded me of Elmer from Fairly Odd Parents.

I also considered a number of the things in the book a little too evil for the sake of evilness. Love's pain is cruel and certainly evil to use, but it's certainly useful for a sadistic villain to use against a hero through his loved ones.
Similarly Heart clench is a crueler version of slay living, to draw out the death. Clearly it's to give your villain time for a short monologue

But one character that stood out as excessively for teh eviluz was the fiend-possessed dragon, in which the possessing spirit forced its dragon host to become a drug addict. My only reaction to that was "Why?" the fiend clearly doesn't want the drug by itself or else it wouldn't go to the trouble of possessing an ancient blue dragon to enjoy it. And it's not like it's trying to manipulate the dragon through an addiction, since it's already possessed. And it's not like it can ruin the Dragon's life further than being completely helpless and unable to control it's own body. Plus using the drug is just creating its own weakness if anyone cuts off its supply. It just feels like the fiend was just sitting there thinking of ways to be evil and thought:
"I know! After I possess this dragon and used its power to impose my will on the local bandits to go raid innocent villages, I'll have them bring me drugs! And then I'll use the drugs! That will make me so evil! Muhahaha!!!"

Because Drugs are bad, M'kay

Also I refuse to believe you can buy a Dragon's heart for a few gold pieces. Or a human heart for a single silver piece.

[Slipperychicken]

"I know! After I possess this dragon and used its power to impose my will on the local bandits to go raid innocent villages, I'll have them bring me drugs! And then I'll use the drugs! That will make me so evil! Muhahaha!!!"

It means that if the fiend is ever ejected/exorcised from the dragon, the dragon will continue to suffer. Until someone casts a 2nd level spell on him.

Yes, fiends do things because they're evil. They are made of evil, and spreading wickedness and cruelty is their sole purpose. That's the whole point.

[IncoherentEssay]

Heartclutch has a Disease component, Soul Rot. It's not quite as bad as the name would imply but you do have to put up with d6 Wis & Cha damage each day for your access to an okay-ish Save-or-Die.

Besides, a chained Clutch of Orcus (aka Villaneous Monologue: the Spell ) is much more stylish. Though if nobody breaks out of it in time you will have your hands full.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: We're not going to do a "make fun of X" series. Genuine discussions of the merits of things are fine, within the Forum Rules. But threads just to mock are not appropriate here.