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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    It's way too small. Your warriors and zoanthrope will die first and the hormies will become erratic.

    Personally i'd drop the 'thrope and the termies and buy more hormagaunts.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Saithis Bladewing View Post
    I say vindicares for one reason: Necron lords are not fun, and having a unit who can potentially harm (or kill if you're lucky and he's not) a Necron lord will cause it a lot of fear and frustration and give you a chance.

    You are right, though, in most situations I'd rather have another squad on my side.
    though necron lords are a major pain in the ass to deal with, I use the Vindicare assassin more for dealing with the Monolith. I've said it earlier, but the Vindicare assassin using his Turbo-Penetrator round is THE most effective thing against the monolith (yes I've calculated it out with every race, every troop/vehicle, every weapon combination... I have no life) with a 37.2% chance of destroying the monolith in one shot!
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Only problem with getting more hormo gaunts is even if I drop re-inforced chitin off of the fex I cant fit in another 8 hormogaunts since then I would go over the 1k point limit I set for myself. And theres the fact that gaunts cost 30 or so euros per box and Im broke.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    I play eldar and in my experience the best tactic is to have a the center as your firebase and one flank as fast attack and the other as elites. Usually the enemy will try to assult your fire base and then you can use the elites to flank them and wipe them out. Or if they advance on the elites, the firebase concentrates on them while the fast attack attackes their firebase. Not a great offensive tactic though.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Because Sisters of Battle are vastly more interesting. Hehe just kidding. I would comment, but I know next to nothing about Tyranids, other than they scream flamer fodder to me.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    What I will use as my tactic is try to keep the enemies heads down with warp blasts and deathspitters while my melee units run in.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Kython View Post
    though necron lords are a major pain in the ass to deal with, I use the Vindicare assassin more for dealing with the Monolith. I've said it earlier, but the Vindicare assassin using his Turbo-Penetrator round is THE most effective thing against the monolith (yes I've calculated it out with every race, every troop/vehicle, every weapon combination... I have no life) with a 37.2% chance of destroying the monolith in one shot!
    37.2%? No....

    37.2% of getting into the armour perhaps. And then you need to roll to see what you do. Which takes it to less than half that chance.

    Which means you spent 120 points, on a model that has one chance. And the chance is a statistical long shot.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Any idea what I should use for a 500 point army from the 1k point army?

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    37.2%? No....

    37.2% of getting into the armour perhaps. And then you need to roll to see what you do. Which takes it to less than half that chance.

    Which means you spent 120 points, on a model that has one chance. And the chance is a statistical long shot.
    And I just realised something. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I believe the Turbo-Penetrator is useless against a Monolith. Against a Land Raider, these calculations would be correct, but the Turbo-Penetrator round cannot pierce the Monolith's Living Metal, which negates any extra dice beyond 1D6 with the exception of Ordnance shots.

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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    http://us.games-workshop.com/games/4...s_faq_v4-0.pdf

    In the Necron FAQ's it says that the only multiple dice for tank busting is from a vindicare assasins Turbo Penetration.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    http://us.games-workshop.com/games/4...s_faq_v4-0.pdf

    In the Necron FAQ's it says that the only multiple dice for tank busting is from a vindicare assasins Turbo Penetration.
    Hm, alright, that's fair enough. I wasn't aware such a FAQ existed. To be honest, I like my ruling better. I feel that the assassin should be just that: something for killing characters and specific targets, not vehicles.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Saithis Bladewing View Post
    Hm, alright, that's fair enough. I wasn't aware such a FAQ existed. To be honest, I like my ruling better. I feel that the assassin should be just that: something for killing characters and specific targets, not vehicles.
    In my opinion, the turbo-penetrator round just screams "anti-vehicle" just by how much more effective it is against vehicles against troops, it inflicts two wounds instead of one... no other difference from a normal shot. the Hellfire round is much more "anti-infantry" simply by the 2+ wound chance. the shield-breaker is reserved for anything with an invulnerable save, the more integral/powerful, the better.

    ... and selrahc, I DID calculate it correctly, 5 times when I discovered that percentage just to make sure I didn't screw it up... 'cause the next closest thing is a lance strike orbital bombardment with 35.71%!
    Last edited by Kython; 2007-01-11 at 02:37 PM.
    Ky is coming...

    and unfortunately Ky is hungry...

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Kython View Post
    In my opinion, the turbo-penetrator round just screams "anti-vehicle" just by how much more effective it is against vehicles against troops, it inflicts two wounds instead of one... no other difference from a normal shot. the Hellfire round is much more "anti-infantry" simply by the 2+ wound chance. the shield-breaker is reserved for anything with an invulnerable save, the more integral/powerful, the better.

    ... and selrahc, I DID calculate it correctly, 5 times when I discovered that percentage just to make sure I didn't screw it up... 'cause the next closest thing is a lance strike orbital bombardment with 35.71%!
    Yes, the round does scream anti-vehicle, but I think that the assassin in general should serve an anti-infantry role, not a vehicle killing role. Assassins kill important people, commanders and the like, and the Turbo-Penetrator is good at that. Characters fail before the might of the 2-wound shot.

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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    ... and selrahc, I DID calculate it correctly, 5 times when I discovered that percentage just to make sure I didn't screw it up... 'cause the next closest thing is a lance strike orbital bombardment with 35.71%!
    Prove it. Because I call nonsense on that.

    The odds to destroy, from a penetrating hit are 50%. The odds of hitting are 83.333333%. Half of 83.3333333% is 41.67%

    What that means, is that you say the vindicare assasin gets a penetrating hit on the vehicle over 90% of the time.

    Now, I don't have the exact probabilities of rolling over a fourteen on 3D6, but I'm damn sure its not in the 90%'s.

    I.E, you may have checked it five times, but you were wrong five times.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Well, here's some quick calculations.

    On 3D6 there are a total of 216 possible combinations of the dice. Only 20 of these will result in a 15-18 (penetrating). That's 9.26% of the time. Out of these 9.26% penetrations, only half will result in a kill of the Monolith. Thus we have a 4.63% chance of a kill through penetration.

    The chance of rolling a 14 (glancing) on 3D6 is 15 out of 216, or 6.94%. Out of these 6.94% glances, only 1 in 6 will kill. Thus we have a 1.16% chance of a kill through glancing.

    So we have a hit at 83.3% (BS 5).

    A hit results in a penetration kill 4.63% of the time --> 3.86% chance of penetrating kill
    A hit results in a glance kill 1.16% of the time --> less than 1% chance of glancing kill.

    Sounds like a far cry from 37%.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Then we have a Hammerhead's Railgun. It has 66% chance to hit. Against an AV14 vehicle, it then has to roll a 4+ to cause a penetrating hit, so 33% of a penetrating hit. A further 4+ is required to destroy it, halving the chance again to 16.5% chance of success. Much better than a Vindicare Assassin's rather low chance. And it can fire again if it misses next turn.

    Even better is a Broadside with the targeting array. 66% chance to hit but all misses are rerolled, so 66% of the misses are successes. 88% chance to hit, 50% chance to penetrate, 50% chance to destroy brings us to 22% chance of success. And, as before, it can fire again if it misses and it is also considerably cheaper than a Vindicare Assassin or Hammerhead.

    So, with this in mind, I still submit that the Railgun is the most reliable anti-tank weapon when you factor in its lack of extra dice, maximum firepower and 72" range. I don't know why I calculated that out, I just felt like it.
    Last edited by Saithis Bladewing; 2007-01-18 at 11:29 AM.

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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    All the math is making my head hurt :P

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    You've got to wonder... did the guy actually try an assasin against a vehicle, and just get Uber lucky?
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Personalized chapter of marines here (Flame vipers. Woot for horrible name)

    Seeing as I'm usually against shooty armies like Tau that can't handle themselves my normal 2000 point army has a specially selected list of the special abilities from the "custom chapter" thingies in the codex I can get into combat on the first turn, each of my marines also getting one more attack than usual (no charge bonus, though)

    Doesn't tend to work against close-combat armys, unfortunately
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    I have run a Sisters of Battle Mechanized list for quite some time now. I have composed quite a bit of tactica on the subject on what has worked for me.
    (Since it's a LOT of info, I'm just going to provide links to the posts on Warseer).

    1 - Unit Usefulness Breakdown (6 posts long)
    2 - Faith Usage
    3 - Mechanized Deployment/Movement
    4 - Delivery & Sustainability

    Enjoy.
    ...coming soon

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    I can get into combat on the first turn,
    How? Default game assumes at least 24" between you and your opponent. Nothing the Space Marine army can move that far and charge.

    If you're playiing on a smaller battlefield, then the shooty armies get screwed over.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    You've got to wonder... did the guy actually try an assasin against a vehicle, and just get Uber lucky?
    I once lost my Grey Knight LRC to a hunter killer in the first turn. Gaarghblsh, I was pissed. (I won though, so its far less aggravating than it could have been).

    Nothing though, nothing at all, compared to my friend who lost a monolith and a necron lord on the same turn... to the same predator. THAT must have sucked.

    Ooo and I rarely field my vindicare but I chose to to snipe out an ethereal. It was a wild success, when his front line troops fled, they forced the guys behind them to save, etc etc, until most of his army was fleeing. I'm proud of him for the way he recovered though:

    He bottlenecked his troops by running them inbetween two pieces of terrain to get off the board and then planted a tank in the bottleneck, forcing his troops to run all around the terrain and tank to get off the board, which saved him from losing a lot of guys (he had hugged the sides to stay away from my melee, so he was damn close to retreat even before the ethereal was killed.)

    That was a damn narrow game, it came down to 2 of my terminators dueling his devilfish, but he forgot I had the remnants of an IG platoon moving up behind with a meltagun. heh.


  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Murongo View Post
    Nothing though, nothing at all, compared to my friend who lost a monolith and a necron lord on the same turn... to the same predator. THAT must have sucked.
    Did the Monolith explode or something then? The predator can only shoot one target a turn - only Super-heavy vehicles can fire at different targets. The only way I can imagine this happening is if the Lord was already wounded and got some bad rolls when the 'Lith exploded.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Axis View Post
    Did the Monolith explode or something then? The predator can only shoot one target a turn - only Super-heavy vehicles can fire at different targets. The only way I can imagine this happening is if the Lord was already wounded and got some bad rolls when the 'Lith exploded.
    I believe the lascannon took the monolith and a sponsoon-mounted Storm bolter took the lord or something. I could have it wrong, I was playing the above Tau game at the same time this game was going on. I could be wrong about the storm bolter, although I was under the impression that if a tank dosen't move it can fire 1 turreted weapon and full defensive weapons, I thought only ordinance restrictred the use of defensive weapons on a stationary tank.

    Oh but a funny story:
    On the opposite end of the spectrum. One time my GK Grand Master and retinue took 2 full squads of warp spider rounds, a barrage from a Land raider crusader and a full fire dragon squad barrage in 1 turn and didn't lose a single man. (Me and my buddy who played space wolves took on two other friends who played eldar and dark angels).
    Last edited by Murongo; 2007-01-18 at 05:38 PM.


  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    How? Default game assumes at least 24" between you and your opponent. Nothing the Space Marine army can move that far and charge.

    If you're playiing on a smaller battlefield, then the shooty armies get screwed over.
    If you infiltrate under the right circumstances and got lucky, you could do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murongo View Post
    I believe the lascannon took the monolith and a sponsoon-mounted Storm bolter took the lord or something. I could have it wrong, I was playing the above Tau game at the same time this game was going on. I could be wrong about the storm bolter, although I was under the impression that if a tank dosen't move it can fire 1 turreted weapon and full defensive weapons, I thought only ordinance restrictred the use of defensive weapons on a stationary tank.
    Yes it can, but it can only fire all of its weapons at the same target (Baneblades are an exception to this almost-universal rule, as they can fire any of their weapons at differing targets.) It would have had to explode the monolith and take the Lord's last wound to be within legality.

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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    How? Default game assumes at least 24" between you and your opponent. Nothing the Space Marine army can move that far and charge.
    Scout Bikers.

    12" pre-1st turn move
    12" 1st turn move
    6" charge
    ----------------------
    30" of hello


    (not that this mitigates the fact that Scout Bikers, as a whole, suck)
    ...coming soon

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    How? Default game assumes at least 24" between you and your opponent. Nothing the Space Marine army can move that far and charge.
    Well, it does depend a little on special rules but usually it works. In the codexes custom chapter rules one feature, see but not be seen, allows you to pay +3 per model for all tactical and devistator squads to give them infiltration. So, on the typical sized map that uses infiltrators (which most missions do) if you get the first turn the enemy will generally be about 12" away if you placed your men right, allowing you to move six inches then charge.


    Correct me if I'm wrong (I have been before) but the staff at my local GW say this is the correct interpritation of the rules.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Scout Bikers.

    12" pre-1st turn move
    12" 1st turn move
    6" charge
    ----------------------
    30" of hello


    (not that this mitigates the fact that Scout Bikers, as a whole, suck)
    Very good point. Forgot that.

    Correct me if I'm wrong (I have been before) but the staff at my local GW say this is the correct interpritation of the rules.
    It's possible, but the rules for Infiltration say that you can be within 12" if out of line of sight of an enemy, and 18" while within line of sight.

    Basically, you'd have to be lucky on how you get round the terrain that blocks the enemies line of sight.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    hi. i have a space marine army. i usally take a libraian with t-armor and terminator command group. 1 dreadnought. 2 tactical squads of 10. a vindicator and an assalt squad any good tactics i can use.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics

    Imperial guard tank army with sweet sweet baneblades crush all opposition!
    Last edited by The Dirge; 2007-01-19 at 07:07 AM.
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