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Thread: Warhammer 40K Tactics
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2009-01-05, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Twas a joke, but also something someone asked me recently.
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2009-01-05, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Heh, just recently I picked up a Deamonhunters codex and fell in love with 'em. Totaly awesome Grey Knights with their Shrouding and Psycannons.
But then I played a few games with them. It's realy hard when you only have 34 models in a 1000 point game against Tyranid! I don't think I was playing them to their strengths though (plus damn genestealers wrecking everything they even get near). Also, the lack of heavy weapons was definately felt in my last game.
But, I still have loads of fun with them, so I don't mind losing too much.
So, anybody got tips on playing them?
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2009-01-05, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
So, my first army is Space Marines (going to pick up Eldar and Tau over time as well), starting with regular 500pt matches against my friend, who is a long time Dark Eldar player. Damn, those terror/horrorfexes are brutal. Raiders sure are nasty for the price.
Any general tips anyone can provide?Avatar courtesy of Szilard
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2009-01-05, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- 333rd Circle of the Abyss
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Bwaha! I have deep-seated emotional problems! Die! Die! Die!
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2009-01-05, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Well I'm not positive on the abilities of the Grey Knights, but I believe they are close combat oriented SMs with a few very strong attacks. I'm not sure on your options so I'll go with that general idea.
The problem against tyrnids is of course that you just don't have the attacks to kill them in CC. Against some things you could probably do pretty good, probably the monsters with a fewer attacks, though they would be unsavable. Against most things in the army you aren't going to be going first and they are throwing enough dice (or ignoring armor) that you are going to have people die.
The one thing about all space marines though, is that while they specialize in one thing, they are better at their weak point then are other armies. Specialized marines also aren't as good at their specialization as other armies that are specialized in the same thing. Shoot marines aren't going to out-shoot Tau and CC marines aren't going to out CC Orks or Tyrnids. In some cases it comes down to stats/weapons, but in most cases it simply comes down to not having enough models, 50 pretty good attacks are better then 10 really good attacks.
So even with a CC oriented SM army, against an opponent like tyrnids you are still going to have to do a lot of fighting at range and try to avoid CC until you have the upper hand. The other option is of course cover, stay in cover as much as possible and force them to assault through cover giving you the chance to attack first. With the difficult terrain test they are less likely to get everyone into combat and it will take fewer wounds to make it so they don't get any attacks back.
Its a fight you are very likely going to have to turtle up for and wait for them to come to you, even if you don't have a lot of ranged firepower and even if you are designed to be in combat, you aren't going to want to be fighting hordes of tyrnids in the open.
The other main thing about being outnumbered is that it is much easier for your opponent to focus several units on one of yours at a time. And if you don't have your units close together to help support eachother then they can focus one unit down and suffer little damage in return. You might make a couple cheap-as-you-can-get-them units for bait to die your opponent up a turn or two and to make sure you get an extra round of concentrated fire or several of your units against a few of his in CC.
And of course when you have weapon upgrade choices you should be focusing more on mass damage and less on the big hits. You still need a few things to take out the mosterous creatures, but with psyker and force weapons along with a reasonable str you should be able to handle them fairly well. A 20 point monster killer doesnt do much good if there are 40 grunts between you and that monster and you can only kill a few at a time.
Of course that is all general and fairly straight forward, but without an army list (not that I know the grey knights anyway) its hard to be too specific.
The same concepts, but in some cases reversed (ie shooty marines vs shooty opponents) is true for all marines. Fight to your opponnets weakness, not necessarily to your str, because being a general purpose army SMs are out specilized but can still do a bit of everything. And don't let your opponent focus too many of their units on one of yours without making sure you have some way to make them pay for it afterwords. Which should kind of answer JMobius's question as well.
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2009-01-06, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
I had a battle today, so I wrote a battle report. It was 1750 of my Chaos Marines vs 1750 Loyalist Marines. I used a totally gonzo list that I didn't expect to even compete with! It was Dawn of War, 2 objectives.
Spoiler
My list:
Nurgle Lord on bike w/ daemon weapon
Nurgle Bikers w/ plasma gun, mark of nurgle
10 khorne berzerkers in a rhino
10 marines of slaanesh
8 thousand sons + sorc
Greater Daemon
3x squads of 10 lesser daemons
His list:
Vulkan
5x Thunder Hammer termies
Land Raider
Predator
Whirlwind
2x Tactical squads
Dreadnought
Dreadnought in a drop pod -_-
Grey Knight Hero
I made my list on the spot, and I decided to use a bunch of my daemons. I was fully expecting to get blown away on turn one or two, but Dawn of War deployment and objectives totally swung the game in my favor. My opponent seized the initiative from me, which allowed him to drop a dreadnought with a multi-melta right behind my rhino. He blew off my gun, which I could care less about. :P
A little bit more shooting saw my rhino immobile, and so my berzerkers hopped out and ran toward the building the opponents objective was in. My biker lord turbos up right next to enemy lines as the other bikers roll in behind the dreadnought, stunning it. The turn after that they fried themselves with plasma while simultaneously exploding the dread. -_-
My opponents land raider rolled up to my thousand sons on turn 2, but it didn't disgorge it's cargo. I lose some berzerkers and almost my lord to shooting.
The greater daemon and some lesser daemons show up on my next turn. GD engages the raider and does nothing, but a combined charge from khorne berzerkers and lesser daemons sees away with two combat squads and a grey knight hero. I now have khorne berzerkers in a building with the objective. My lord whiffs on the squad he charged.
His turn the terminators hopped out and engaged the thousand sons and GD. I manage to kill one termie with sons, but otherwise I lose combat by a lot, and lose some more sons to fearless. Whirlwind hammers the building I'm sitting in. Lord finishes off the squad he was fighting.
On my turn some more daemons show up and charge the terminators. This time, Pete (the GD) kill FOUR, despite them having 3+ invulns, and the daemons kill the last one. The single remaining thousand son wounds Vulkan. At this point I've won combat by one... vulkan fails his morale and runs. I babysit him off the board with some bloodletters. Bye, Vulkan!
The whole game theres a dreadnought and 5 marines running towards my objective. I summoned a unit of daemons to engage them both, and so the enemies' advance is halted before they even reach the objective.
Last turn, the scouts move into the building with my khorne berzerkers. My lord whiffs on another unit and kills himself, allowing the unit to consolidate up to the objective. The scouts can't do anything to me because they ran. On my turn the two remaining khorne berzerkers finish off the scouts with plasma and a charge, consolidating enough to contest the objective.
At the end, I held one and the other was contested! The bizarro "Are you playing Daemons or Marines?" list came out on top, and I'm feeling pretty good about myself. :lol:I used to do avatars on request, feel free to use them.
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2009-01-06, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
From what I can see you can either play Daemonhunters as a Space Marine army, or as an Imperial Guard army with superior HQ, Elites and Fast Attack choices. In either case, against Tyranids I'd take some ordnance-type Heavy Support choices ... Whirlwinds or Leman Russ tanks ... in order to thin out the ranks of the Tyranid horde before it gets into assault range.
In any case I'd probably avoid mixing IG troops with Grey Knights in the Troops section ... the high cost of the Grey Knights will attenuate the big advantage of IG - numbers, and the lack of BS, WS and heavy armor on the part of IG will likewise attenuate the strengths of the Grey Knights.
Since it seems the psycannon and incinerator would be particularly effective against Tyranids, I'd suggest playing your army as Space Marines. I would, however, mix up Grey Knights squads with normal Space Marine tac squads ... that way you'll have some more standard heavy weapons available against those high-Toughness monsters.
Of course, this is mostly theoretical knowledge as I've never actually played or fought against a Daemonhunter army ...Last edited by grinner666; 2009-01-06 at 12:03 PM.
Bwaha! I have deep-seated emotional problems! Die! Die! Die!
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2009-01-06, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
The stompa sneek peek is here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...p?aId=12400001
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2009-01-06, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
IMHO that stompa looks rather scratch build, it doesn’t seem to have the detail we are used to from GW. For instance most of the armour plates are plain metal sheets and mesh. I don’t know what it is, but I find it somewhat lacking in some way. Perhaps it will come with an awesome extras sprew that will make up for it tough. No two stompas should be alike.
And a idea I had on the whole scouts are specialists rather then recruits thing. Most space marines recruit from feral worlds, such recruits would probably have infiltration and scouting skills to start with, probably having lived in a jungle trying to avoid mutated t-rexes and all. These recruits will later on be indoctrinated into being real space marines, this includes both bodily and psychological changes of grand scale, thus it would not be strange for them to loose their paranoid drifters outlook and adapt the “stand tall even if you are getting shot at” attitude marines seem to have.Your Personal Undead
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2009-01-06, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
I think if you were to ask most people though, that's exactly the feel they want from an ork super heavy, the feel that it's slapped together from anything at hand and held together by muscle grease, gretchin paste, and because they're too damn stupid to know it should fall apart! It looks very detailed to me considering the size of the kit, especially on all the the absurd orky weaponry.
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2009-01-06, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dat Shoggoth
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Bah. Real men build their stompas in a cave, out of scraps!
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2009-01-06, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Last edited by grinner666; 2009-01-06 at 08:14 PM.
Bwaha! I have deep-seated emotional problems! Die! Die! Die!
Games Workshop: Miniatures First. Rules Second. Clarity Last
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2009-01-06, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-01-06, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
I'd hardly call snotlings 'men'...
Stompa lokks pretty good - I'd swap the skull face for two big zappy eyes, but a pretty good kit overall.Princess in the streets.
Princess in the sheets.
Don't touch me I'm royalty.
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2009-01-06, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Given the Ork players' community above-average penchant for kustomizin', I would guess the model was deliberately designed that way. All that big open space that might be covered in pre-chosen detail bitz for other races was left clean to invite the owner of the model to have some fun with it. And it probably will come with a sprue of assorted add-on bits as well, if you don't have inspiration for any of your own.
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2009-01-07, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Shouldn't we be starting a new thread now? This one has hit 50...
(asking because I don't want to start a new discussion or ask questions which will be cut-off or forgotten because of a thread switch )LGBTitP Supporter
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2009-01-07, 08:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Hi. Can anyone tell me what the front armor of a Wace Serpent is? My rulebook says it's 2... Is this a typo?
I hope not...
PS: Can I make the new thread?"That last nob is mocking me! He's like "Hey, you want this killpoint? Do ya?'"
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2009-01-07, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Bwaha! I have deep-seated emotional problems! Die! Die! Die!
Games Workshop: Miniatures First. Rules Second. Clarity Last
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2009-01-07, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-01-07, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Eh, scratch build might be not be the best expression when concerning orks. What I meant is that it looks like many home made ones, if I would see the picture out of context I would think, hey that looks good well done. Not ‘hey, did GW put out one of those?’ that could be a compliment to all the home made ones out there, or it could be that the GW one ends op being somewhat generic like it should be. But for instance there is relative little detail on the armor plates on the skirt, using the urban basin kit and plasticard one could reach about the same effect.
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by dr. bathand, Kpenguin and Fay Graydon
You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
-C. S. Lewis
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2009-01-07, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
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2009-01-07, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
I think the stompa looks great. I think it is a great amount of detail that you can tell that many of the pieces of plating are from different types of metal.
I also think that its better that each plate is fairly blank and that its not ork-y down to each individual plate. For one, when orks do things they seem to do them big. Any individual design on the plates would take away from any large overall ork design and break it into a lot of little ork designs (little being relative to the size of the model). The large ork face in the center (just painted of course) works because what it is over is fairly blank, if many of the underlying plates had ork faces, teeth, etc then any overall design added to the stompa would be diminished.
And I think building any main emblem that is embosed on the plates into the model would be a mistake because not every uses the same main emblems and thats too much of the model to have 6 different pieces for.
(as for a new thread, I think we have about 5-10 posts left before page 51. I feel whomever starts it should start with something substantial and not just a "here is the new thread" post.)
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2009-01-07, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics
Folks, link to the new thread when you're done with the old one. It's Imperial Protocol.
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