MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

[SavageWombat]

I propose Pedantry.

Oh, nice! That's a keeper.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I haven't read the entire post, so someone may have already said this, but I believe that TMitD is the Giant himself, unaware (as a character) that he is running the show.

There, I said it.

Noses are not that ugly. Also, how many Rich Burlews are running around that you can talk about "one of them"?

Oh, nice! That's a keeper.

Added, as well as spoilers, making the five we can have. Any further suggestions will need to say what tag they substitute.

Grey Wolf

[b_jonas]

The store website currently shows a "Cthulhu Air Freshener" on the same page as Order of the Stick posters. Maybe Ookoodook knows that the Elder ones are present in the OotS world? :-)

[Kornaki]

The store website currently shows a "Cthulhu Air Freshener" on the same page as Order of the Stick posters. Maybe Ookoodook knows that the Elder ones are present in the OotS world? :-)

It also has a rubber duck dressed as a sailor. As an off topic aside, how did the oracle get such a prominent position on the bad guy poster?

There are some interesting symmetry choices in the posters. Clearly Elan and Nale are paired off, Redcloak and Durkon, Roy and Xykon, Belkar and the oracle, and maybe Vaarsuvius and Mitd? Suggesting that the Giant thinks V and MitD play similar roles in their teams.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

how did the oracle get such a prominent position on the bad guy poster?

Rich says: Don't read too much into it.

There are some interesting symmetry choices in the posters. Clearly Elan and Nale are paired off, Redcloak and Durkon, Roy and Xykon, Belkar and the oracle, and maybe Vaarsuvius and Mitd? Suggesting that the Giant thinks V and MitD play similar roles in their teams.

Rich says, paraphrased: Don't read much into it

(Links are different)

Yours,

Grey Wolf

[b_jonas]

It also has a rubber duck dressed as a sailor. As an off topic aside, how did the oracle get such a prominent position on the bad guy poster?

We already know from the online strips that the OotS universe canonically has rubber ducks and sailors, so that doesn't tell us much.

Chthulhu in particular is important because people were considering that the MitD were drawing upon the power of the Lovecraftian Elder Ones, and Grey_Wolf has noted that that's implausible because we haven't had hints that the Elder Ones are part of the universe. Chthulhu is thus relevant to this thread, which is why I brought it up.

Update: however, Grey_Wolf has just given a link to a statement from the Giant that tells that the Chthulhu merchandise is irrelevant:

The presence, absence, position, or style of any character on any piece of merchandise has no bearing on any future (or past) plot points. I design the merchandise to look good and sell well. Usually, I specifically design the merchandise in order to avoid any sort of plot relevance; the Thog kids shirt still has all his tusks unbroken, for example. I generally choose the most "iconic" look for each character, if there is such a thing.

Update 2014-04-14: I'm wondering about the monster's gender again. Sure, the club thing shows that the monster identifies as not a girl. But on the other hand, playing tea party with dolls is a stereotypical girl thing. I think either the monster is of a species that is normally genderless, and is confused about his gender identity because he's grown up among goblins, or maybe he's a gender-shifter.

[Steven]

Update 2014-04-14: I'm wondering about the monster's gender again. Sure, the club thing shows that the monster identifies as not a girl. But on the other hand, playing tea party with dolls is a stereotypical girl thing. I think either the monster is of a species that is normally genderless, and is confused about his gender identity because he's grown up among goblins, or maybe he's a gender-shifter.

So based on the monster playing tea party, something I did as a young male child, you've decided to ignore every other reference about his gender?

Have fun with that.

[Kish]

Enjoying playing with dolls is gender-neutral. It's just that our culture frowns on boys who do it without calling the dolls "action figures."

[b_jonas]

So based on the monster playing tea party, something I did as a young male child, you've decided to ignore every other reference about his gender?

As for you playing tea party, I see. Just before posting, I'd read Terry Pratchett's Johnny and the Bomb, where one character implies that playing tea party is a girl thing; and before that, I'd seen the movie Gru where the girls play tea party. I don't have first-hand experience, because I've never played tea party, but I don't remember having seen other children playing tea party either. As for every other reference to the monster's gender, I count only one other, the club thing, so it looks to me like it's a tie. (The first posts list O-Chul calling him a good man, but I don't think that counts.)

Update: Anyway, I don't claim that boys can't play tea party, only that it's a stereotypical girl thing.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

As for you playing tea party, I see. Just before posting, I'd read Terry Pratchett's Johnny and the Bomb, where one character implies that playing tea party is a girl thing; and before that, I'd seen the movie Gru where the girls play tea party. I don't have first-hand experience, because I've never played tea party, but I don't remember having seen other children playing tea party either. As for every other reference to the monster's gender, I count only one other, the club thing, so it looks to me like it's a tie. (The first posts list O-Chul calling him a good man, but I don't think that counts.)

Update: Anyway, I don't claim that boys can't play tea party, only that it's a stereotypical girl thing.

I think that having a club that actively excludes girls is a stronger argument for what his gender is than that he plays tea party. I always thought the tea scenes were showing how childlike the MitD was, not his gender, whereas the club thing seems pretty definitive. He is definitely a non-girl, and I don't think that the tea scene is enough evidence to argue that he is a non-boy as well.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

As for every other reference to the monster's gender, I count only one other, the club thing, so it looks to me like it's a tie.

Only because you think that playing tea parties is a girl thing. I concur with Steven, that is something male children do in my own country (except with a different pretend drink, my country not having a particular tradition for tea) just as often as girls do.

In any case, since it is most emphatically not a girl thing, it cannot tie against anything else as a determinant for MitD's gender.

Grey Wolf

[Crusher]

Only because you think that playing tea parties is a girl thing. I concur with Steven, that is something male children do in my own country (except with a different pretend drink, my country not having a particular tradition for tea) just as often as girls do.

In any case, since it is most emphatically not a girl thing, it cannot tie against anything else as a determinant for MitD's gender.

Grey Wolf

No? I always thought you were some version of British. Don't all of the former British colonies have some measure of tea drinking tradition?

"No" would be a fine privacy-preserving answer.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No? I always thought you were some version of British. Don't all of the former British colonies have some measure of tea drinking tradition?

"No" would be a fine privacy-preserving answer.

My education is British. My country is not

But hey, that means I have yet to give my actual origin away, so that makes me quite happy

Grey Wolf

[SavageWombat]

My education is British. My country is not

But hey, that means I have yet to give my actual origin away, so that makes me quite happy

Grey Wolf

Well, you gurkhas always were a clever and sneaky bunch.

[Irish Musician]

Only because you think that playing tea parties is a girl thing. I concur with Steven, that is something male children do in my own country (except with a different pretend drink, my country not having a particular tradition for tea) just as often as girls do.

In any case, since it is most emphatically not a girl thing, it cannot tie against anything else as a determinant for MitD's gender.

Grey Wolf

I, myself, when I was quite young had a little baby that came with little fake bottles that I played with all the time. So him playing with dolls definitely doesn't point to his gender is anyway, as far as I am concerned.

My education is British. My country is not

But hey, that means I have yet to give my actual origin away, so that makes me quite happy

Grey Wolf

Since I met you, as someone does on a forum, a few years ago when I first joined, GW you have definitely stopped me from figuring out your origins. And I am one who prides himself on being able to figure things out with minimal clues.....so you are very much doing a great job in that area

[b_jonas]

So him playing with dolls definitely doesn't point to his gender is anyway, as far as I am concerned.

Playing with dolls isn't enough. Have you played tea party specifically?

Although, I just realized, the MitD also plays with Transformers action figures, which I think count as boy's toys.

[Loreweaver15]

Playing with dolls isn't enough. Have you played tea party specifically?

Although, I just realized, the MitD also plays with Transformers action figures, which I think count as boy's toys.

Out of curiosity, why are you so hung up on gender roles in a comic whose author has spent years making a conscious effort to avoid sexism in his writing?

[b_jonas]

Out of curiosity, why are you so hung up on gender roles in a comic whose author has spent years making a conscious effort to avoid sexism in his writing?

You're probably right. I shouldn't read too much into the tea party or the transformers.

[Irish Musician]

You're probably right. I shouldn't read too much into the tea party or the transformers.

That was kind of my point of my story.....we shouldn't really read too much into him either playing with dolls/tea parties or playing with "action figures" (which as just essentially dolls anyway).

[Savannah]

The process of updating the tables in the complete list of MitD strips has begun. Let me know if I messed something up, and poke me if it's not completed within a couple of days.

[ChristianSt]

The process of updating the tables in the complete list of MitD strips has begun. Let me know if I messed something up, and poke me if it's not completed within a couple of days.

I don't really know why, but the table doesn't display correctly on my mobile phone (desktop site version): The header rows extend over the right side of the table, as though there would be a third column. (It gets displayed correctly on my laptop.)

One theory I have it that the usage of multiple header rows really messes up the code. (Rawhide advised to not use [th] outside of first row in a table). [td="bgcolor:#8E5A2E, align:center"][color=#FFFFFF][b]<cell content>[/b][/color][/td] instead of [th]<cell content>[/th] gives the same visual style like a regular header cell. (In your case you would also want a colspan:2). I will post a fixed version to see whether this bug will still be shown.

Start of Darkness

Spoiler

Show

Rainforest, 29 years ago
Page 49	MitD captured
Page 50	SBGH surprised MitD can talk, is in this part of the world
Circus (3 years ago)
Page 83	MitD likes stew, is about to be revealed
Page 84	CIRCUS SCENE. It's hard for MitD to be looked at by a lot of people at once
Page 85	MitD knows Right-Eye's family, playing with toys
Page 88	MitD meets Redcloak, Redcloak says he could escape if he wanted to
Page 89	Redcloak is going to free MitD
Page 90-95	Breaking MitD out of the circus
Page 96	Xykon meets MitD, : "You sure are one ugly sumbitch", MitD can be mind-controlled
Taking Dungeon of Dorukan (6 months ago)
Page 100-101, 103, 105, 107, 109	MitD given control of zombies to attack tower, can't remember what to do, gets tacos instead
Page 110	MitD being carried into dungeon

Edit: doesn't seem to change anything on how this gets displayed on my mobile. I find this bug really strange . (I hadn't really had any problem with the new table code so far.)

I really can't locate any problem with the table code, though...
I will try to see if I can find the problem and write something about it in the Board/Site Issue forum.

Spoiler: Screenshot of the bug

Show

EDIT: table splitting doesn't seem to help for me, even this table get displayed wrongly on my mobile for me (though the right area is smaller).

Rainforest, 29 years ago
Page 49	MitD captured

Spoiler: Further testing

Show

Rainforest, 29 years ago
Page 49	MitD captured

A
B	C

Ok, this is really weird. The table code is exactly the same, only that I replaced "Rainforest, 29 years ago", "Page 49" and "MitD captured" with "A", "B", "C" respectively. The MitD table features problems, the other works fine.

I'm not right sure where the bug is located, but it is really strange. I don't know whether you can do anything to solve this problems (though since Rawhide said to not use headers outside the first row unless necessary, you should imo change them to normal cells).

EDIT: Ok, I think this is a really strange bug my mobile browser has. If I turn from "portrait" to "landscape" orientation it gets displayed correctly

(Also it is probably better to not discuss this topic in this thread any further. I will open the discussion soon in a thread (or maybe new thread) more suited for the table discussion.)

[Savannah]

Weird. I split them into separate tables to see if that fixes it. If not, I'll go to the fake headers you posted because the differences in column width between tables within one spoiler are mildly annoying.

[allenw]

Out of curiosity, why are you so hung up on gender roles in a comic whose author has spent years making a conscious effort to avoid sexism in his writing?

Because the MitD *is* hung up on gender roles, and in an otherwise-egalitarian comic such as this that may mean something?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Because the MitD *is* hung up on gender roles, and in an otherwise-egalitarian comic such as this that may mean something?

That doesn't follow. MitD is clearly not hung up on gender roles in the way it is being depicted, since he freely self-identifies as male, and plays tea parties. He obviously doesn't seem to find a contradiction there, and I must say, neither do I. Only if you are prejudiced to think that only girls would enjoy tea parties can you think otherwise, but this thread cannot depend on what the participants project from their own prejudices into the conversation.

The facts are: MitD self-identifies male. MitD enjoys tea parties. MitD has broken action figures while trying to play with them. MitD eats cheeseburgers. MitD finds pulling harder than pushing. From those facts, and an abundance of others I could mention, the only reasonable, non-biased conclusion about his gender is that he self-identifies as male. Everything else is genderless.

Grey Wolf

[DaggerPen]

Considering that MitD never did anything particularly gendered before strip 100, when Rich decided what the MitD was, I feel that if Rich was going to make MitD from a female-only species, we would have seen MitD referencing that in some way, or at the very least not making "No Girls Allowed" clubs. MitD could be gender neutral, but it's more likely that he's male, simply because we don't see a lot of gender neutral characters in general - however, I doubt we'd rule against a creature from a genderless species, just put "from a female-only species" as a con against a female-only MitD proposal.

Gender roles tend to be rather artificial and variable by culture. Gender identity tends to be very ingrained, manifest at a young age, and stay very consistent throughout life, aside from the occasional transgender person who doesn't realize it until much later in life. I'm going to say that MitD's self-identification as not female is significantly stronger evidence here than the fact that a lonely little childish monster had a tea party. Especially given all the men in this thread who had tea parties as kids anyway.

[snikrept]

TIL eating cheeseburgers and pushing instead of pulling things are male stereotypes in some places.

Huh

[Grey_Wolf_c]

TIL eating cheeseburgers and pushing instead of pulling things are male stereotypes in some places.

Huh

Hopefully you are not implying that today you learnt that from my post, since otherwise I'm afraid you completely missed the point I was making. I just listed a string of MitD actions. Any gender stereotypes associated to those actions are in your head.

GW

[Steven]

The internet wouldn't be the internet without people misunderstanding each other even when something is written perfectly clearly...

Oh how I wish the internet wasn't the internet.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The internet wouldn't be the internet without people misunderstanding each other even when something is written perfectly clearly...

Oh how I wish the internet wasn't the internet.

Like the internet being a good book or something?

I can't imagine how one could pushing things instead of pulling a male stereotype.

[GrayGriffin]

If anything, pushing should be a female stereotype, since pushing an object requires less strength than pulling an object of equal weight.