Chasing the Philosopher's Stone: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Alchemist

[N. Jolly]

It combos well with the Minor Ring of Inner Fortitude which is the vest of stable mutagen 1: at a lower cost 2: protects against other stuff.

Not sure if it only reduces your total penalties by 2, or takes 2 off each effect .

I'd rather not burn my ring slot for such a small benefit. It's a nice combo, but it has no proper place. Mutagen users are going to pass by it eventually on the way to Great Mutagen, and non Mutagen users aren't going to like losing all their mental stats. I could probably add it, it'd maybe be high orange/low green, but it's not something I'd recommend.

[N. Jolly]

There, the damn guide is complete AGAIN! And this time, unless I decide to add a few things like:

-Alchemical Weapon primer
-Advancing sample characters

But considering I just finished the mythic options (not fun to do), this guide is officially complete at 80 freaking pages.

As you can see in my signature now, I'm working on a mini guide for the Synthesist Summoner, which won't be nearly of the same scope, but should help clear up a lot of issues that people seem to have with this archetype.

But as of now, this is THE definitive guide to the Alchemist class, and I'm damn proud to have made it.

[RobDeBob]

I have four months of experience with D&D/PF/tabletop games in general, so forgive my ignorance of the game mechanics, but I wanted to ask some questions.

First: You mentioned a strategy whereby Skinsend could be inflicted upon an enemy with no saving throw. The delivery method makes sense (Touch Injection or Poisoner's Gloves with an infused extract or potion), but the rules for Skinsend note that the range of the spell is personal. Personal spells cannot be made into potions, so why should Alchemists be able to infuse a personal extract and apply it to someone else? As I understand it, Infusion is meant to allow the use of non-personal spells like Bull's Strength on another individual, but it does not overcome the "personal" range limitation. If it did, this tactic would be incredibly broken. Believe me, it sounds hilarious and I want to use it more than anything, but my DM adheres strictly to the rules.

Second: I perused all the links provided regarding the acquisition of an Improved Familiar. I took away two facts from this --

1) James Jacobs states:

Alchemist caster levels equal their alchemist level. Note we don't generally call it a "SPELLcaster level." Neither do we call it an "ELIXIRcaster level." The rules apply for all spell or spell-similar effects.

An Improved Familiar requires you to have "arcane spellcaster levels" according to d20pfsrd. Can this be equated to the "caster level" of the Alchemist (which is simply his Alchemist level)?

2) Sean Reynolds explicitly stated that a tumor familiar "counts as a familiar."

From what I can tell, the rules do indeed allow an Alchemist to obtain an Improved Familiar, provided he can fulfill one more condition: "only when you could normally acquire a new familiar." What does this mean? Is this simply fluff that you can rationalize by saying "Congratulations! Your TUMOR MONKEY has evolved into TUMOR HOMONCULUS!" after taking the feat?

Third: What is the buff delivery system for the tumor monkey mentioned in your guide? Are poisoner's gloves required, can the monkey drink the infused extract in your stead, can the monkey force the infused extract down your throat? Does the use of the infused extract count as casting a spell, effectively nullifying the huge bonus to action economy? Do we treat the infused extract as a stored spell, as a potion, or what? I read everything posted in this thread but I'm still confused about what is officially allowed by RAW.

Fourth: Besides Feral Mutagen and race selection, and while not transformed by Beast Shape/Monstrous Physique, is there any other way to obtain additional natural attacks ? Your Vivisectionist/Beastmorph example had:

Gore +6 (1d6+8) or Gore +6 (1d6+6), Bite +6 (1d8+6), 2 Claws +6 (1d6+6) 2 Hooves +1 (1d4+3)

How were each of these attacks obtained? Bite + claws from Feral Mutagen, hooves from shapeshifting? Gore from...? Mainly, I just want to know how to get more natural attacks on my Alchemist, who is human.

Thanks for taking the time to make this guide (and read this post), and again, forgive my poor grasp of the rules.

[deuxhero]

Infusion overwrites the "Personal". It's to make up for the discovery tax of taking it.

[N. Jolly]

I have four months of experience with D&D/PF/tabletop games in general, so forgive my ignorance of the game mechanics, but I wanted to ask some questions.

No problem, I'm glad to help with any questions you have.

First: You mentioned a strategy whereby Skinsend could be inflicted upon an enemy with no saving throw. The delivery method makes sense (Touch Injection or Poisoner's Gloves with an infused extract or potion), but the rules for Skinsend note that the range of the spell is personal. Personal spells cannot be made into potions, so why should Alchemists be able to infuse a personal extract and apply it to someone else? As I understand it, Infusion is meant to allow the use of non-personal spells like Bull's Strength on another individual, but it does not overcome the "personal" range limitation. If it did, this tactic would be incredibly broken. Believe me, it sounds hilarious and I want to use it more than anything, but my DM adheres strictly to the rules.

Well, you can't just do this without an extract. That's what makes the Touch Injection extract so good, the fact that there's no saves for extracts. It's entirely by rules, although it's not the kind of thing that I'd use that often. It's a bit of a jerk move, and really more of an evil move since it's kind of dark. Use this sparingly or else your GM is going to hammer you for it, or give it a save (which wouldn't be bad, since all you need is someone standing next to them to CDG the ugly out of them) Deuxhero mentioned why it works, due to Infusion and such too.

Second: I perused all the links provided regarding the acquisition of an Improved Familiar. I took away two facts from this --

1) James Jacobs states:
An Improved Familiar requires you to have "arcane spellcaster levels" according to d20pfsrd. Can this be equated to the "caster level" of the Alchemist (which is simply his Alchemist level)?

2) Sean Reynolds explicitly stated that a tumor familiar "counts as a familiar."

From what I can tell, the rules do indeed allow an Alchemist to obtain an Improved Familiar, provided he can fulfill one more condition: "only when you could normally acquire a new familiar." What does this mean? Is this simply fluff that you can rationalize by saying "Congratulations! Your TUMOR MONKEY has evolved into TUMOR HOMONCULUS!" after taking the feat?

It's pretty obvious that they think that you should be able to get an advance familiar, so I'd consider your Alchemist caster level to be both Arcane and Divine, since it's really neither but by implication it's at least an Arcane caster level. Although I doubt you could stop the evolution by pressing B...maybe...flavor it however you want. If you know it's happening, maybe flavor it as a gradual process, have your monkey slowly grow different.

Third: What is the buff delivery system for the tumor monkey mentioned in your guide? Are poisoner's gloves required, can the monkey drink the infused extract in your stead, can the monkey force the infused extract down your throat? Does the use of the infused extract count as casting a spell, effectively nullifying the huge bonus to action economy? Do we treat the infused extract as a stored spell, as a potion, or what? I read everything posted in this thread but I'm still confused about what is officially allowed by RAW.

Okay, I'm not exactly sure HOW the familiar holds a charge. I assume the familiar drinks it (assisted by you if it's not a monkey) and holds the charge until you're ready to have it discharged into you. The Poisoner's Gloves are different, and they let the monkey (and presumably other things, I plan on asking about this soon) wear, and pop 2 infusions into you at once, and a damn nice piece of tech.

I'd say the stored infusion/extract is counted as a potion, although there's enough ways to get around certain issues with the action economy (familiars holding charge, Poisoner's Gloves), so it should help you get around the action economy. Infusions/extracts are kind of weird, so if you have more exact questions, let me know so I can add them to the Extract Primer.

Fourth: Besides Feral Mutagen and race selection, and while not transformed by Beast Shape/Monstrous Physique, is there any other way to obtain additional natural attacks ? Your Vivisectionist/Beastmorph example had:

How were each of these attacks obtained? Bite + claws from Feral Mutagen, hooves from shapeshifting? Gore from...? Mainly, I just want to know how to get more natural attacks on my Alchemist, who is human.

Thanks for taking the time to make this guide (and read this post), and again, forgive my poor grasp of the rules.

Okay, the Gore/Hooves are racial from the Ragebred, which is where they come from. It's hard to pick up extra naturals aside from Helm of the Mammoth Lord, since the game tries to hold off on that. For humans, your best bet is taking Monstrous Physique, since it's a gear friendly extract that rocks pretty hard as a line.

I hope this answered your questions, let me know if you have any more.

[RobDeBob]

Thanks for your very informative post. Infusions/extracts are indeed weird, but it seems that even with a stricter interpretation you can still find ways to sway the action economy. I think I'll go with the "Alchemist drinks extract, familiar delivers charge" interpretation, as the rules for Infusion state that "an infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects." This leads me to believe that an infused extract has no spellcasting element and behaves like a potion, making it ineligible for Deliver Touch Spells. I have another question:

The rules state: "In addition, he receives bonus extracts per day if he has a high Intelligence score, in the same way a wizard receives bonus spells per day." Do I use the same table as the wizard, disregarding spells above sixth level? For example, if I had 14 INT, at first level I would:
- learn two first level extracts
- learn two additional extracts of any level
- be able to prepare one first level extract per day PLUS one additional first level extract and one second level extract
Meaning I'd be able to use Invisibility/Bull's Strength etc. from the get-go?

[deuxhero]

I'd rather not burn my ring slot for such a small benefit. It's a nice combo, but it has no proper place. Mutagen users are going to pass by it eventually on the way to Great Mutagen, and non Mutagen users aren't going to like losing all their mental stats. I could probably add it, it'd maybe be high orange/low green, but it's not something I'd recommend.

The ring works per effect (otherwise it would make no sense, esp the ability drain part) not total. It will do other stuff for you (most first stage conditions are only -2. May not be the most useful even then (most effects target derived stats directly and the ring doesn't help against them), but it's hardly JUST for that.

[Sayt]

Thanks for your very informative post. Infusions/extracts are indeed weird, but it seems that even with a stricter interpretation you can still find ways to sway the action economy. I think I'll go with the "Alchemist drinks extract, familiar delivers charge" interpretation, as the rules for Infusion state that "an infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects." This leads me to believe that an infused extract has no spellcasting element and behaves like a potion, making it ineligible for Deliver Touch Spells. I have another question:

The rules state: "In addition, he receives bonus extracts per day if he has a high Intelligence score, in the same way a wizard receives bonus spells per day." Do I use the same table as the wizard, disregarding spells above sixth level? For example, if I had 14 INT, at first level I would:
- learn two first level extracts
- learn two additional extracts of any level
- be able to prepare one first level extract per day PLUS one additional first level extract and one second level extract
Meaning I'd be able to use Invisibility/Bull's Strength etc. from the get-go?

All casting classes use the same table for determining bonus spells.

However: until you get to 4th level, you have null 2nd level extracts, not zero. Zero plus one is one. Null plus one is null.

The rules citation is on page 16 of the core rulebook:

In addition to having a high
ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class
level to be able to cast spells or use spell slots of a given spell
level.

[Larpus]

It's pretty obvious that they think that you should be able to get an advance familiar, so I'd consider your Alchemist caster level to be both Arcane and Divine, since it's really neither but by implication it's at least an Arcane caster level. Although I doubt you could stop the evolution by pressing B...maybe...flavor it however you want. If you know it's happening, maybe flavor it as a gradual process, have your monkey slowly grow different.

Another possibility for fluff is, you are a mad scientist, a rather cruel one at that, so you could either capture the evolved familiar form and through SCIENCE fused it with your monkey tumor familiar or, again through SCIENCE, turn it into a formless goo of flesh which later the Alchemist attaches and assimilates into his body, which is how I envision the original tumor familiar coming to be.

Great guide btw.

Thanks for your very informative post. Infusions/extracts are indeed weird, but it seems that even with a stricter interpretation you can still find ways to sway the action economy. I think I'll go with the "Alchemist drinks extract, familiar delivers charge" interpretation, as the rules for Infusion state that "an infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects." This leads me to believe that an infused extract has no spellcasting element and behaves like a potion, making it ineligible for Deliver Touch Spells.

A possibility for it to make sense is, in the Alchemist's case, consider the "Deliver Touch Spells" to work by having the familiar drink the extract, hold the charge and merge back into the Alchemist's body for it to make it take effect.

However: until you get to 4th level, you have null 2nd level extracts, not zero. Zero plus one is one. Null plus one is null.

Just adding an example to this, check Paladin's and Ranger's spell progressions, whenever they unlock a new spell level, they start with 0 spells of that level, meaning that they may only start casting if they have a high enough casting stat to have a bonus spell.

[RobDeBob]

New question: for Feral Mutagen, we get 1d6 claws and a 1d8 bite if we're larger than Small. 1d6 claws + a 1d8 bite are usually reserved for a Large creature, while a Medium creature would get 1d4 claws + a 1d6 bite. If I were to use Enlarge Person, would I get 1d8 claws + a 1d10 bite, or does it not scale like that?

[N. Jolly]

Another possibility for fluff is, you are a mad scientist, a rather cruel one at that, so you could either capture the evolved familiar form and through SCIENCE fused it with your monkey tumor familiar or, again through SCIENCE, turn it into a formless goo of flesh which later the Alchemist attaches and assimilates into his body, which is how I envision the original tumor familiar coming to be.

Great guide btw.

Totally possible, there's all sorts of routes you can take for your Tumor Familiar (Mine is a red Greensting Scorpion named Crimson)

And thanks for the kind words, it's the kind of stuff that keeps me writing guides to know that they're helping others.

New question: for Feral Mutagen, we get 1d6 claws and a 1d8 bite if we're larger than Small. 1d6 claws + a 1d8 bite are usually reserved for a Large creature, while a Medium creature would get 1d4 claws + a 1d6 bite. If I were to use Enlarge Person, would I get 1d8 claws + a 1d10 bite, or does it not scale like that?

Yep, you'd be moving on up to a higher damage die, despite the fact that you're "technically" at large size damage already. You're increasing your size, and that makes your damage dice bigger, so you'll be at a D8/D10 for your claw/bite.

[RobDeBob]

Actually, I just checked the Tiny and Large Weapon Damage table, and it says while 1d6 is scaled up to 1d8, a 1d8 is scaled up to a 2d6. Nice.

Edit: I should probably read these entries more thoroughly before asking questions, heh.

[N. Jolly]

Actually, I just checked the Tiny and Large Weapon Damage table, and it says while 1d6 is scaled up to 1d8, a 1d8 is scaled up to a 2d6. Nice.

Oh, guess I didn't check the chart. I'm not great on natural attack stacking, so yeah, you're moving up to a way better damage die.

[Larpus]

Feral Mutagen is pretty freaking scary, tbh, the dices are very nice; reason why I'd refrain from piling on natural attacks unless the rest of the table is also optimized.

I mean, think of the poor melee guys, it's already bad enough that casters offend them in versatility all over the place, no need to rub broken glass and molten lava on their wounds by showing them on their own element (not even talking about "battle" here, talking about straight up melee damage) this hard.


On another note, couple additions I thought of while re-reading the guide:

1. There is another Advanced Mutagen choice worth of mention: Dual Mind.

Iron Will effect (stacking with it even) + possibility to retry a failed enchantment effect is pretty big, especially considering you're most probably the prime target for a compulsion spell from a savvy enemy caster (as you're essentially a cleric-lite with low will).

Strict RAW states that the whole thing stops working if you're out of mutate, but I think it's quite a jerk-move to disable even the passive part of it (after all, you're not using it), most GMs should allow it to stay.

2. It might be worthy to mention build focus (not a guide, just a reminder somewhere), more important for the Mad Bomber, due to feat/discovery starvation on the lower levels. Sure, at 15+ you can do it all quite well, but if you don't focus on the 10-, you're gonna end up as bad as a poorly built Bard.

3. I'd say that Frost Bomb and Stink Bomb are rather mutually exclusive as discoveries, since it's impossible to use both at once and both target the same save; the difference would be a battle-ending effect at the expense of 2 discoveries and being locked on fire damage or better elemental type and discovery economy at the expense of a much weaker effect (as obviously nausea wrecks a wizard, stagger merely inconveniences him).

Again, certainly I'd like to fit both in my builds, but chances are I won't have discoveries/feats for that and would quite likely prefer Blinding Bomb over one of them for the added versatility of targeting a different save in case threatening Fort isn't cutting it.

[N. Jolly]

Feral Mutagen is pretty freaking scary, tbh, the dices are very nice; reason why I'd refrain from piling on natural attacks unless the rest of the table is also optimized.

I mean, think of the poor melee guys, it's already bad enough that casters offend them in versatility all over the place, no need to rub broken glass and molten lava on their wounds by showing them on their own element (not even talking about "battle" here, talking about straight up melee damage) this hard.

On another note, couple additions I thought of while re-reading the guide:

Feral is tex mex sexy, no doubt. Getting 3 natural attacks is brutal, and something most Fighters WISH they could do. It's so easy for you to outdo a Fighter at melee, so make sure you don't completely show them up, or better yet, tell them not to be a damn Fighter.

1. There is another Advanced Mutagen choice worth of mention: Dual Mind.

Iron Will effect (stacking with it even) + possibility to retry a failed enchantment effect is pretty big, especially considering you're most probably the prime target for a compulsion spell from a savvy enemy caster (as you're essentially a cleric-lite with low will).

Strict RAW states that the whole thing stops working if you're out of mutate, but I think it's quite a jerk-move to disable even the passive part of it (after all, you're not using it), most GMs should allow it to stay.

Okay, I could see adding that, but it's still such a low ball ability for a discovery, at least for for normal discoveries. I could throw it in, but it's still pretty weak.

2. It might be worthy to mention build focus (not a guide, just a reminder somewhere), more important for the Mad Bomber, due to feat/discovery starvation on the lower levels. Sure, at 15+ you can do it all quite well, but if you don't focus on the 10-, you're gonna end up as bad as a poorly built Bard.

I was hoping that would be made clear in the build section. It's kind of hard to build on a concept like this, but I think I could probably put in the MB's con section that they require a lot of discoveries, which again is bunk because they also benefit most from Infusion and NEED Precise Bomb unless they're going first consistently or limiting themselves due to melee.

3. I'd say that Frost Bomb and Stink Bomb are rather mutually exclusive as discoveries, since it's impossible to use both at once and both target the same save; the difference would be a battle-ending effect at the expense of 2 discoveries and being locked on fire damage or better elemental type and discovery economy at the expense of a much weaker effect (as obviously nausea wrecks a wizard, stagger merely inconveniences him).

This is something I'd like to talk about more, but I'm not sure where, since there's not a lot of spaces to talk about misc stuff like that. It's something I might try to find room for though.

Again, certainly I'd like to fit both in my builds, but chances are I won't have discoveries/feats for that and would quite likely prefer Blinding Bomb over one of them for the added versatility of targeting a different save in case threatening Fort isn't cutting it.

Blinding is baller, although has the same issue as Stink Bomb in that you're stuck with Fire.

[N. Jolly]

Just got the guide updated for Magical Marketplaces and a few other sources (none of the traits in that made me excited, but you guys did get some new discoveries), might use Archives of Nethys for new stuff more often.

Also put up some information if you want to donate using a certain site (not sure what I am and am not allowed to mention on the boards), but not sure how to make a direct link to donation. I'm trying to hit up a con, which is why I put the link there, but I'll keep updating it regardless. If anyone could PM me with advice on how to make an actual link for donations, that'd be pretty chill.

Also got two sample builds done on the Barb Guide, which means its time to head back to Synth town.

[Larpus]

Okay, I could see adding that, but it's still such a low ball ability for a discovery, at least for for normal discoveries. I could throw it in, but it's still pretty weak.

Indeed, not exactly the best option, but there are times when it's interesting, such as if, for whatever reason, you simply couldn't get your Wis score above 8 and your Will save is really sucking right now; or your GM loves to make you roll for Will; or the GM simply hates bigger than medium and never allows you to fight in places where you could enlarge yourself.

In these situations, it might be more interesting than mathematically better options.

Again, not the best option, but still worthy of mention (following your colors it'd most probably be orange, maybe a situational green).

I was hoping that would be made clear in the build section. It's kind of hard to build on a concept like this, but I think I could probably put in the MB's con section that they require a lot of discoveries, which again is bunk because they also benefit most from Infusion and NEED Precise Bomb unless they're going first consistently or limiting themselves due to melee.

This is something I'd like to talk about more, but I'm not sure where, since there's not a lot of spaces to talk about misc stuff like that. It's something I might try to find room for though.

Blinding is baller, although has the same issue as Stink Bomb in that you're stuck with Fire.

Might be worthy of a subset under MB, mentioning build focus and/or philosophy (as in, effect vs. damage).

Personally, I always think of bombers as being two types who share pretty much everything with each other but basic philosophy; I called them Smoker (the effect guy) and Bomberman (damage guy) when I tried to make a guide.

For Smoker, effect is king so he makes the enemy suck big time on the first round, damage is secondary, so he cares not for being locked with fire, he'd rather be able to target any save.

Bomberman is the opposite, damage is the name of the game, with effect as a nice bonus, just in case whatever he just nova-ed is still alive and wants to murder the Bomberman.

[RobDeBob]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemasterin...area-templates

When I use a Longspear and Enlarge Person in tandem, which of these templates do I follow? The Large (Tall) one that gives me 10 foot reach plus another 10 feet for my enlarged longspear, for a total of 20 feet? Or the Large (Long) one? I imagine it's the former, but I wanted to be sure.

[Larpus]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemasterin...area-templates

When I use a Longspear and Enlarge Person in tandem, which of these templates do I follow? The Large (Tall) one that gives me 10 foot reach plus another 10 feet for my enlarged longspear, for a total of 20 feet? Or the Large (Long) one? I imagine it's the former, but I wanted to be sure.

Large (Long) usually refers to quadrupeds; so yeah, you use the Large (Tall) template for 20ft reach.

[N. Jolly]

Indeed, not exactly the best option, but there are times when it's interesting, such as if, for whatever reason, you simply couldn't get your Wis score above 8 and your Will save is really sucking right now; or your GM loves to make you roll for Will; or the GM simply hates bigger than medium and never allows you to fight in places where you could enlarge yourself.

In these situations, it might be more interesting than mathematically better options.

Again, not the best option, but still worthy of mention (following your colors it'd most probably be orange, maybe a situational green).

I'd merit a green, as it's still useful, situation, but useful. I guess I'm just so 'meh' on most Advanced Mutagens, so it'd kind of a wash for me considering you can only ever pick up one (unless you're willing to dedicate, which is not recommended)

Might be worthy of a subset under MB, mentioning build focus and/or philosophy (as in, effect vs. damage).

Personally, I always think of bombers as being two types who share pretty much everything with each other but basic philosophy; I called them Smoker (the effect guy) and Bomberman (damage guy) when I tried to make a guide.

For Smoker, effect is king so he makes the enemy suck big time on the first round, damage is secondary, so he cares not for being locked with fire, he'd rather be able to target any save.

Bomberman is the opposite, damage is the name of the game, with effect as a nice bonus, just in case whatever he just nova-ed is still alive and wants to murder the Bomberman.

I guess I could see having a Bomberman subrole, as the smoker subrole you're talking about is basically the debuff bomber. I personally think bombs are too finite to be building based around their damage, but there are ways to pump it though. I almost feel like a bomberman should be a generalist alchemist due to needing something to do once you're out of bombs.

I'd honestly not have a smoker/Bomberman divide in the actual guide, as I learned my lesson with B/C Hyde, which I didn't like in retrospect.

EDIT: Figured out the donation thing, we're all peachy keen there.

[Larpus]

I'd merit a green, as it's still useful, situation, but useful. I guess I'm just so 'meh' on most Advanced Mutagens, so it'd kind of a wash for me considering you can only ever pick up one (unless you're willing to dedicate, which is not recommended)

As I said, not the mathematically superior choice, but still worth mentioning over the rest which indeed are pure garbage.

I guess I could see having a Bomberman subrole, as the smoker subrole you're talking about is basically the debuff bomber. I personally think bombs are too finite to be building based around their damage, but there are ways to pump it though. I almost feel like a bomberman should be a generalist alchemist due to needing something to do once you're out of bombs.

I'd honestly not have a smoker/Bomberman divide in the actual guide, as I learned my lesson with B/C Hyde, which I didn't like in retrospect.

Both are most probably better off as "build paths" as a Generalist can actually work pretty well with Agi (not as great as Brutal Hyde, but can work, trading some damage for less MAD and better accuracy with bombs - and becoming a superior choice in low point buy scenarios); even C.Hyde can do the same if he gets a whip or some other finessable reach weapon.

And yes, Bomberman can't fight for long, bombs are indeed too limited in number to be the sole source of damage, but by throwing 4+ in a single round (and pretty much having guaranteed hits due to touch) + Sticky Bomb and some effect (which by forcing the target to save 4 times against is a nearly guaranteed affect even against a strong Save) and you have one scary dude who severely cripples an enemy on the first round.

Generalist really meshes well with either bomb-user type, just with a secondary focus on melee as opposed to straight up ranged combat that most MBs will be.

That's really the beauty of this class IMHO, there are simply so many options that just work as long as you're careful enough due to how versatile and powerful the center mechanic (bombs) is, while still effortlessly rocking a respectable buff-based spell list with great action-economy for the caster (when group-buffing) with 3/4 BAB progression.

If there was a feat for progressing bomb dices and amount when multiclassing (such as Shaping Focus is for wildshape), things would be absolutely insane!

[grarrrg]

If there was a feat for progressing bomb dices and amount when multiclassing (such as Shaping Focus is for wildshape), things would be absolutely insane!

Well, there is the "Extra Bombs" feat. No points for guessing what THAT does.

As for Bomb Damage and/or Multiclassing there's always good old Arcane Bomber Wizard.
And of course by "multiclassing...Arcane Bomber Wizard" I mean DO NOT EVER DO THIS IT IS A HORRIBLE IDEA.

[Larpus]

Well, there is the "Extra Bombs" feat. No points for guessing what THAT does.

As for Bomb Damage and/or Multiclassing there's always good old Arcane Bomber Wizard.
And of course by "multiclassing...Arcane Bomber Wizard" I mean DO NOT EVER DO THIS IT IS A HORRIBLE IDEA.

Ugh...don't even remind me of that hideous mess of a lost opportunity for an interesting archetype.

[deuxhero]

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/Magi...unal%20Dweomer

New potion related item. 1/day lets a non-instant potion effect multiple people, splitting the duration (even if it is normally a multi target spell...). Could be used with Alchemical Allocation, but I can't think of anything it could be useful to the entire party with.

Champions of Balance has some new discoveries, but 2 are just Holy Bombs for law/chaos and the other 2 give minor boosts under a cognatogen.

[N. Jolly]

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/Magi...unal%20Dweomer

New potion related item. 1/day lets a non-instant potion effect multiple people, splitting the duration (even if it is normally a multi target spell...). Could be used with Alchemical Allocation, but I can't think of anything it could be useful to the entire party with.

Champions of Balance has some new discoveries, but 2 are just Holy Bombs for law/chaos and the other 2 give minor boosts under a cognatogen.

Thanks for the heads up, both ahve been added, although haven't checked out the magic item. It feels good, but I'm not quite sure how...worth investigating though.

I've been way too busy working on my new homebrew class, the (pathfinder) Warlock.

Give it a look if you can, and please give any opinions you have on it here or here.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the effort for helping me out with this guide, and be sure this thing is going to get a big revamp post Alchemy Manual.

[magotter]

I'm looking for a bit of clarification on Grenadier.

Alchemical Weapon states that "The alchemical item takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, or otherwise affect additional targets." (Emphasis mine)

Now, just to be clear here, does that mean if I shoot an arrow loaded up with some Ghast Retch Flask juice, the target is denied his DC 12 fort save to avoid the nauseated portion?

For clarification, Ghast Retch Flask is listed as:

Spoiler: Ghast Retch Flask

Show

Harvested and concentrated from the remains of slain ghasts, this foul-smelling powder is kept in tightly sealed flasks. It is thrown as a splash weapon and the flask breaks on impact, releasing noxious dust. The target is nauseated for 1 round and sickened for 3 rounds after that. A successful DC 12 Fortitude save prevents the nauseated condition, but not the sickened condition. Creatures within 5 feet of where the flask hits are sickened for 1 round. This is a poison effect.
(again, emphasis mine)

Likewise, How viable is a Archer Grenadier utilizing Alchemical Weapon and Explosive Missile? Debuffing Bomb-Tipped arrows sound amazing, if a bit... Hyrulian.

[N. Jolly]

I'm looking for a bit of clarification on Grenadier.

Alchemical Weapon states that "The alchemical item takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, or otherwise affect additional targets." (Emphasis mine)

Now, just to be clear here, does that mean if I shoot an arrow loaded up with some Ghast Retch Flask juice, the target is denied his DC 12 fort save to avoid the nauseated portion?

For clarification, Ghast Retch Flask is listed as:

Spoiler: Ghast Retch Flask

Show

Harvested and concentrated from the remains of slain ghasts, this foul-smelling powder is kept in tightly sealed flasks. It is thrown as a splash weapon and the flask breaks on impact, releasing noxious dust. The target is nauseated for 1 round and sickened for 3 rounds after that. A successful DC 12 Fortitude save prevents the nauseated condition, but not the sickened condition. Creatures within 5 feet of where the flask hits are sickened for 1 round. This is a poison effect.
(again, emphasis mine)

Likewise, How viable is a Archer Grenadier utilizing Alchemical Weapon and Explosive Missile? Debuffing Bomb-Tipped arrows sound amazing, if a bit... Hyrulian.

I'm pretty sure myself that the 'full effect' thing means that you don't have to have a reduced effect for being launched with a weapon. That's how I'd rule it at least.

And Archer Grenadier with Alch Weapon/Explosive Missile/Conductive Weapon/Hybridization Funnel is MY iconic character, Kallen Telos, so I'd say it works damn well. As long as you're smart about bomb use (I'd use some kind of accuracy enhancer before letting loose with an Explosive Missile myself), you can generally end fights in a hail of debuffing beauty (GRF + Burst Jar) or massive damage with Raining Arrows added into the mix.

[deuxhero]

Rather than cast magic like a spellcaster

At 2nd tier, you gain a bonus on initiative checks equal to your mythic tier. In addition, as a free action on your turn, you can expend one use of mythic power to take an additional standard action during that turn. This additional standard action can't be used to cast a spell. You can't gain an extra action in this way more than once per round.

Is there finally somewhere the whole "not actually a caster" thing works in your favor?

[avr]

Alchemical Weapon states that "The alchemical item takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, or otherwise affect additional targets." (Emphasis mine)

Now, just to be clear here, does that mean if I shoot an arrow loaded up with some Ghast Retch Flask juice, the target is denied his DC 12 fort save to avoid the nauseated portion?

For clarification, Ghast Retch Flask is listed as:

Spoiler: Ghast Retch Flask

Show

Harvested and concentrated from the remains of slain ghasts, this foul-smelling powder is kept in tightly sealed flasks. It is thrown as a splash weapon and the flask breaks on impact, releasing noxious dust. The target is nauseated for 1 round and sickened for 3 rounds after that. A successful DC 12 Fortitude save prevents the nauseated condition, but not the sickened condition. Creatures within 5 feet of where the flask hits are sickened for 1 round. This is a poison effect.
(again, emphasis mine)

.

I think the distinction here is between a direct hit and the 5' splash - the 'full effect' is the former.

[Fredlebad]

Thank you for the epic guide!

I have questions about the Improved Tumor Familiar:

-Can it take actions while attached to the Alchemist?
For example, could it use a wand while being attached on the shoulder?

-Correct me if i'm wrong, but extracts have a personal range, how could they possibly be used with the deliver touch spell ability?

-Finally, is there some official ruling on the Tumor action economy thing? (probably not...)
Seems awesome, but my GM is already annoyed by how good my alchemist is (thanks to this guide!) and I will need really good arguments to convince him haha


Thank you for your help!