Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread II: New Thread smell included!

[gr8artist]

It will be two related homebrew. Each contestant makes one, with input and advice from his partner, so that the two are obviously related in some way.
Race + Archetype, Class + PRC, Creature + Template, etc.
Several people earlier expressed that they think there shouldn't be a theme, that doubling up would be interesting enough as it is. If we do decide to go for a theme, anything that works for two entries would work well, like Opposites Attract or Symbiosis.
Personally I think not having a theme this time will be fine, and the entries will instead be judged on relatability to one another.

[Almarck]

Something tells me that the 2 don't need to be mutually exclusive...

Regardless, does the tagline "Do it Together?" sound appropriate enough to be useable?

[ShiningStarling]

It seems my college life did not allow for my participating in the contest this time around. :(

I liked the concept enough that I'll probably still do it, just, y'know, later.

I think I'm gonna be out of the running for a while, but I'll keep checking in.

Thanks for having me! :)

[gr8artist]

Sorry to hear that, OM.

Yeah, I think the unrestricted theme is best.

Some reviews, for those of you who feel like workin' over the weekend.

Spoiler: Mandjet

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What is "akasha"?
You have a class that re-defines biology. There needs to be some explanation for how the average Joe wanderer decides to become a mandjet.
You need to define abilities and phrases before referencing them. You have a lot of similar-seeming, vaguely defined, nebulous abilities and qualities mentioned throughout, and it makes the whole thing really confusing. Veils, Essence, Chakra Binds, Object Abilities, Invested, Repressed, Mechanization, Veilshapers (links? homebrew?), etc...
Your second and third abilities don't seem like they really do anything stand-alone, and could probably be combined or blended into other abilities.
Veils obviously need work, and I'm not sure what makes them not spells or spell-like abilities.
What do Chakra Binds DO?
Shapeshifting into a construct as a quality of a class (not a race) at second level is really weird. Like, really, really weird.
Miniaturization is the only ability I can recall ever seeing that explicitly penalizes you for picking a compatible build.
Restructuring doesn't seem to be compatible with miniaturization. Give them a choice and both at the same level, with increasing benefits later.

Spoiler: Candy Witch

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There's some grammar issues that can be adressed later, should you repost the archetype for further evaluation.
If I were you, I'd make the gingerbread servant HD scale a little better by changing the HD of the large GS to 5 instead of 4. It's more logical to have a pair of +2 increases between the +1 increases at small sizes and the +3 increases at large sizes.
Poisoned Caramel might need to have a DC listed.
Alluring Candy should be Su and doesn't need to specify "giant". Giants are a subtype of humanoid, like elves. Spell out the DC, too ("10 + 1/2 level + Int" is the norm)
Alluring Candy also needs a duration. I'd suggest 10 minutes, or 1 minute per level. This is a duration of the effect on a failed save, not the duration of the candy or how long it lasts on a gingerbread person.
Fattening Syrup cracks me up. I'd make it an onset penalty, rather than instantly inflating like a balloon. Perhaps their weight increases by 20% per minute, and this weight is added to their load to determine encumbrance? Fatigued after 1 minute, and staggered after 5? You could also write up the effects of Fattening Syrup as a poison, which would negate you needing to specify the save penalties and whatnot.
I've told you I love this entry, right? The house running on candy-cane stilts is something I don't plan to forget any time soon.
I would give your animated cauldron a "splash" attack. 10 or 15 foot range, ranged touch or cone, affects creatures with whatever concoction is in the cauldron but empties the cauldron after use. Boiling water would deal about 1d4 fire damage.
The "As long as skill ranks = HD" clause in your Haute Patisserie feat is weird, and the benefit is pretty good. Consider using this instead: "Your gingerbread servants gain additional construction points equal to 1/3 your ranks in Craft (bakery), to a maximum number of additional points equal to your Charisma modifier."
I would remove the clause about the 100% accuracy of the message in Fortune Cookie. Just make it an ominous message, not one that's more accurate than the average divination spell. I would have it give them the shaken condition for 1 round if they succeed their save, and probably stagger and shaken 1 round on a failed save, rather than stun.
Can other people snuff out the Birthday Candle? Because if they can't, it's too good for a feat as its currently written. Consider changing it to 1d6 + 1/2 levels and lowering the frequency to 1d4+1 rounds, or 1/minute.
Great job overall.

Spoiler: Clockwork Guardian

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There's not a lot to say about this entry. It's good, well thought out, simple and usable. My only concern is that it seems a little droll or bland; the arc cannon was a nice touch, however. If I were you, I'd expand the list of secondary weapons to include a net launcher, grabbing appendage/mancatcher, and repeating crossbow, rather than just the musket and the arc cannon.
A wee bit more customization could really elevate this thing in my book.
All in all, however, it's a technically perfect entry, if perhaps a little weak in the creativity department.
Welcome to the contest!

Spoiler: Anbroid

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So you're pushing for humor, but the joke you're making doesn't seem particularly humorous to me. But I was homeschooled in a weird neck of the woods, and my sense of humor isn't the best, so don't take that too harshly.
Relevant?
You didn't describe the subtypes particularly well, if at all.
Interesting, though unfortunately it doesn't feel fleshed out or finished. I'd move the slang descriptions and humor to a standalone paragraph, where it might be better appreciated, and actually give us something we can understand for the actual template.

Spoiler: The Crucible

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You say slowly, but running a 100 foot wire in a day is pretty fast rate of expansion for something like this.
What happens while it's dormant. Can the changes its made be undone at that time?
I like this, and it makes me want to see a biological equivalent, something that spreads with taproots and sprouts plant creatures within its area.
Great work, and welcome to the contest.

Spoiler: Risen Men

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I'd covered you already, and the new feats look fine. I'd advise splitting the size increase and the body modification feats apart. Some people might like to be small and mithral, you know?
One feat would make them medium and give them 10 more HP.
Another feat would give them a +2 armor bonus or something.

[Milo v3]

What is "akasha"?

Incarnum. Dreamscarred press made/is making it as a series called Akashic Mysteries.

You have a class that re-defines biology. There needs to be some explanation for how the average Joe wanderer decides to become a mandjet.

Average joe =/ Adventurer. But anyway, no idea how someone becomes one. How does someone decide to become an incarnum/akasha user.

You need to define abilities and phrases before referencing them. You have a lot of similar-seeming, vaguely defined, nebulous abilities and qualities mentioned throughout, and it makes the whole thing really confusing. Veils, Essence, Chakra Binds, Object Abilities, Invested, Repressed, Mechanization, Veilshapers (links? homebrew?), etc...

Most of those are from Akashic Mysteries.
Object abilities should have been construction points.
Repressed and Mechanization are extra things that work with akashic rules.
Links:
Actual Product
Playtest content that has stuff that hasn't been released yet.

Shapeshifting into a construct as a quality of a class (not a race) at second level is really weird. Like, really, really weird.

I'm not sure I understand. Should shapeshifting be restricted to races for some reason?

Miniaturization is the only ability I can recall ever seeing that explicitly penalizes you for picking a compatible build.

If your a character who wants to be smaller, it lets you be smaller, if you don't then you can be bigger. If your already bigger than it "can" make you bigger again. It doesn't penalize you. Still, I dislike how I did the ability, probably should go back and change it but I'm never good with abilities that change size.

Restructuring doesn't seem to be compatible with miniaturization. Give them a choice and both at the same level, with increasing benefits later.

It is compatible, I mean, you can have powerful build and slight build. Though, probably should just make it pick once.

[gr8artist]

See, I think of the body and biology as being more related to race than to class. A class should teach you how to do things, or allow you to discover new options. A class feature that modifies your biological nature seems like it should be magical in some way, or rather a quality of your race.
The transformers can transform because they're transformers. Humans cannot learn to transform like the Autobots do. It's just not something they're designed for. It's possible that the shapeshifting ability of your class is more magical than I realize, but I wasn't sure if the stuff you were talking about was more like grit or ki or more like an arcane pool or spellcasting.

[Milo v3]

See, I think of the body and biology as being more related to race than to class. A class should teach you how to do things, or allow you to discover new options. A class feature that modifies your biological nature seems like it should be magical in some way, or rather a quality of your race.
The transformers can transform because they're transformers. Humans cannot learn to transform like the Autobots do. It's just not something they're designed for. It's possible that the shapeshifting ability of your class is more magical than I realize, but I wasn't sure if the stuff you were talking about was more like grit or ki or more like an arcane pool or spellcasting.

It's magic.

[Almarck]

I'd covered you already, and the new feats look fine. I'd advise splitting the size increase and the body modification feats apart. Some people might like to be small and mithral, you know?
One feat would make them medium and give them 10 more HP.
Another feat would give them a +2 armor bonus or something.

I've added about 2 other feats aside from the body and size mods.

Basically, 1 is a feat that giv you bonus natural armor dependant, 1/2 for ever Risen feat you own, but only when you're half health or below. Meaning, a Risen fighter dumping bonus feats into the various racial combat feats is going to be tough to kill.

Another feat basically inverts the Positive and Negative energy balance and if combined with Living Essence let's you heal negative for half.

I did make an option to go large, adding 10 more HP.


Edit: seperated size upgrades from Body reconstition. the 10k gold cost is enough of a drawback to prohibit people from taking it early. It's not up yet, but it'll be before the contest is over.

[dragonjek]

See, I think of the body and biology as being more related to race than to class. A class should teach you how to do things, or allow you to discover new options. A class feature that modifies your biological nature seems like it should be magical in some way, or rather a quality of your race.
The transformers can transform because they're transformers. Humans cannot learn to transform like the Autobots do. It's possible that the shapeshifting ability of your class is more magical than I realize, but I wasn't sure if the stuff you were talking about was more like grit or ki or more like an arcane pool or spellcasting.

Actually, one of the powers mastering ki can give in eastern folklore and mythology is the ability to change your shape.

There's also a mythological basis for non-magical shapeshifting (although biology in mythology is... weird). You see, it is a common misunderstanding that a "kitsune" is a Japanese fox spirit. No, "kitsune" is the word for all foxes--the normal ones we see are just in their first hundred years of life. Beyond this is when they begin to grow additional tails, can take on other forms, etc. There are a huge amount of other, seemingly normal things that can learn to shapeshift (or just take on a more human shape), from most animals to inanimate objects to ideas.

Leaving aside Japanese mythology specifically, there are a numbers of stories in mythology about people who have learned to change shape by trying to imitate animals or by just trying really, really hard.

[Tanuki Tales]

So...College has been eating me more and more it seems, along with other IRL commitments.

I hate to ask this, but would someone mind taking the reigns till about the middle of December?

[gr8artist]

I got yer back, bro.
I do reserve the right to vote as though I were not officiating, though I will not nominate a Judges Choice recipient.

Milo, don't take this the wrong way but I feel there's a recurring theme in your entries that I find myself asking what something is or how it works, and I tend to get curt responses that aren't clarified in the entries themselves. When I ask what Akasha is, I'm also asking you to add that information to your entry. The best entries do not require knowledge of 3rd party sources or obscure reference materials.

Shape shifting is one thing, but shape shifting into a car is another. A class is something anyone can learn to do, and a class that replaces WHAT YOU ARE needs plenty of fluff to explain how and why such a thing happens. I can't just learn to be a machine, that conversion is something magical or supernatural and needs to be spelled out as such.

Almarck, I'll try to take a look soon.

Tanta, if you do want me to take over the contest, the first thing I'm doing is updating and linking your entry templates so you don't need the first 8 posts of the contest for formatting templates and whatnot.

[Milo v3]

Milo, don't take this the wrong way but I feel there's a recurring theme in your entries that I find myself asking what something is or how it works, and I tend to get curt responses that aren't clarified in the entries themselves. When I ask what Akasha is, I'm also asking you to add that information to your entry.

I apologize if my responses were curt, I try to be concise in responses, I'll take better care in future. I didn't place any links or anything because people have previously used dreamscarred press content in this competition without issue.

Shape shifting is one thing, but shape shifting into a car is another. A class is something anyone can learn to do, and a class that replaces WHAT YOU ARE needs plenty of fluff to explain how and why such a thing happens. I can't just learn to be a machine, that conversion is something magical or supernatural and needs to be spelled out as such.

I disagree. You don't learn how to be a sorcerer, it just happens. You don't learn how to be an oracle, you are chosen. Either way, why can't you learn how to shapeshift into a vehicle? How is it somehow harder to shapeshift into a something simpler than an animal, when you can learn how to cast spells. Either way, it does say it's supernatural....

[gr8artist]

It may (and apparently seems to be) boil down to a difference of opinion. From the earliest levels, your class has been changing the definition of the character's biology, which seems to not be well enough described for my taste. Perhaps a paragraph explaining how a character sets upon this path might help.
It's true, you do not "learn" to be sorcerers or oracles, you are born into those classes. But I dont' understand how a character could be born into a half machine.

[dragonjek]

It may (and apparently seems to be) boil down to a difference of opinion. From the earliest levels, your class has been changing the definition of the character's biology, which seems to not be well enough described for my taste. Perhaps a paragraph explaining how a character sets upon this path might help.
It's true, you do not "learn" to be sorcerers or oracles, you are born into those classes. But I dont' understand how a character could be born into a half machine.

Possess the ability to restructure yourself on a sub-atomic level, possibly drawing in and dismantling surrounding matter to incorporate into your reformed body?

Apart from that, you could have something along the lines of the X-Men's Colossus to turn into metal, which combined with other shapeshifting methods could possibly allow you to make yourself into a form of machine.

There's also things along the lines of the Generator Rex cartoon (which I've admittedly seen only two episodes of, and so can't say much about it), or an infestation by a bio-mechanical symbiote. If the campaign setting has some sort of biological machine monsters or if constructs given genuine life can breed (which would mean that humans, at least, could have some of the class... humans might as well have the racial ability "spawn half-anything", usable once per 9 months), that could also result in a character having machine transformation abilities, or something like it

The machine-shapeshifter could also be a specific kind of living violation of the laws of physics and magic. Or the class could somehow be based on having a bloodline traced back to the Far Realm.

[Almarck]

So, I take it the contest ends today? Or maybe sometime tonight?

I'm actually shaking with anxiety right now as I have finalized my entry a day or two ago and am hoping for the best.

Also, quick question, when is an acceptable date or time I can post the contest entry onto the homebrew forums to continue development if I so desired?

[MrNobody]

Thanks gr8artist for the review and for all the compliments! I'm glad you like my Witch that much!

These days work is taking away almost every free second, but i found the way to make a couple of adjustments as you suggested!

[gr8artist]

Just in time, too. I finally got around to closing that round and opening the voting thread.
Everybody go vote.

I'll also be making an attention-catching thread for the next round and moving our team-up roster there.

[gr8artist]

Voting will be over soon; get in there while you still can.

And we're currently up to 11 total participants for the team-up round. Anybody else wanna' join? Swing by the sign-up thread to let us know!

[MrNobody]

Wow guys... silver medal, MUE and MLTSP!!! I expected some kind of good placement but i'd never thought about this! Thanks for all your votes and support!

I also want to compliment Milo V3 and Grimgrin for their 3rd and 1st place, and also all the others competitors! We all did an excellent job!

[Almarck]

I'll admit I am kinda disappointed I didn't place at all, but I can't really say I did follow the theme too well.

On thinking back, I might have put more influence on revenants than machines, but oh well and there were loads of other things I could have done. I can at least say that I am probably the who reminded people about the contest with my vote. Strange how there was a whole week only one person voted and then I decided to go vote and suddenly people started joining in.

Congradulations on your victory, Mr.

[gr8artist]

Hey e'rybody, new contest is up. Check it out.

Also, grimgrin, how would you like your custom artwork for the Crucible?

[Milo v3]

*Immediately starts looking up Reality Glitch's work.*

[caledscratcher]

Hey, um, I don't remember if I've already asked this (I vaguely remember inconclusiveness to a prior asking of tis), but would it be plausible to submit a Mythic Path for a PGBC round? Not necessarily this one (although if Hollowpoint and I agree, it might be plausible), but just in general?

[gr8artist]

Ooh, I think that's a wonderful idea. Please, Tanta?

[gr8artist]

I hope everyone's in contact with their team-mate and making some progress; I know I am.

Also, on a side note, I'd love some feedback on the Force Golem I almost wrote up for the last round.

[caledscratcher]

I really hope a mythic path entry will be allowed for this round, because I'm almost done with one.
...
Woops.

[gr8artist]

Tanta gave us the greenlight. I'll try and update the contest with a copy of the template later, but have fun exploring new territory!

[Reality Glitch]

Oh, hey. I just found this thread and....

Incarnum. Dreamscarred press made/is making it as a series called Akashic Mysteries.


Actual Product
Playtest content that has stuff that hasn't been released yet.

PATHFINDER INCARNUM AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

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Also, Milo v3, You still need to add Exctracts and hypotheses as well as takwin options upon which to spend evoultion points.

[Warpwolf16]

Oh, hey. I just found this thread and....PATHFINDER INCARNUM AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

*whistles and walks away leaving link*
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/varian.../akashic-magic
Its up on the pfsrd Glitch :3 I was tempted to try and brew a akashic thing but decided against it since I've been knocking around space things.

[Jormengand]

Could we have a bit longer? Making all these new domains is actually a ton of work, and some people haven't even started their entries yet.