Please help me find a career

[tcrudisi]

Congrats!



On a bit of a side note, it takes a lot more than basic accounting and a few weeks/months to become a certified public accountant in the US. I know because I'm trying to become one.

It takes years of education to just take the test. I have both a bachelors and a masters in accounting (both from a really good business school, known for being one of the best in the nation for accounting) and barely meet the requirements (I have about two more classes than what is required). (exact amount varies from state to state and my state has particularly high requirements)

Then the test can take over a year to pass: It's four tests, each taking 3-4 hours, that you can only take during specific 2-month windows through the year. In addition, these tests are notorious for being hard to pass. I just failed my first one and my co-worker has a friend who had to take one three times to pass.

Then, IIRC, there's a work experience requirement after you pass the test. I think it's three years in my state.

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but I don't want anyone to think that it's easy to become a CPA. Not after the years of study and work I've (and others) put into it.

Kudos to you for going through it. The light at the end of the tunnel is that CPA's are probably the most highly sought after profession in the US. I almost went to get my masters degree in Accounting, and was accepted into the program, but due to some outside circumstances (the timing of when the program began and my time studying in the Netherlands ended), I had to pursue other things.

[Starwulf]

I have to ask, why does an hour commute entail moving? I mean, I know it's a little bit more gas, but the cost you save in not throwing your life in total disarray is more then worth it. Back when I was still able to work, out of 6 or 7 different jobs held, only 1 was less then an hour commute. My one job involved an hour and fifteen minute commute, and then up to another hour beyond that just to get to the days job site.

[tcrudisi]

I have to ask, why does an hour commute entail moving? I mean, I know it's a little bit more gas, but the cost you save in not throwing your life in total disarray is more then worth it. Back when I was still able to work, out of 6 or 7 different jobs held, only 1 was less then an hour commute. My one job involved an hour and fifteen minute commute, and then up to another hour beyond that just to get to the days job site.

It saves a lot of money. The job that's a bit over an hour away provides rent, utilities and phone for $100 a month. (They charge $100 a month instead of making it free so that it's not taxed, or something like that.) So we'd save a few hundred a month by moving.

[Starwulf]

It saves a lot of money. The job that's a bit over an hour away provides rent, utilities and phone for $100 a month. (They charge $100 a month instead of making it free so that it's not taxed, or something like that.) So we'd save a few hundred a month by moving.

Oh, so you'd automatically have a place to live? Ok, now that I can understand, that's a HUGE perk to not mention m'man! $100 rent, with a less then 15 minute commute would probably be a great opportunity. Will the other Q.O. job opportunity offer the same in regards to housing? If so, it might be worth it to hold off, that way you A: don't have to move, and B: have a substantially higher income, while C: Paying substantially less for living expenses. Would certainly make the prospect of a child MUCH easier :)

[Chen]

Yes, it can be. The fast food place is growing very quickly. I'm confident based on my knowledge of the industry, education, and work habits that I'll be a GM within a year and get promoted to DM within 3 years. There I'd be making a 6-figure salary and, while I'd be in fast food, it would be easy to work there a few years and translate that experience into a different industry if I desired. Though, more than likely I would use it to spring myself into a Regional Manager position and go from there.

Now I'll preface this with not knowing pretty much anything about how the fast food/restaurant industry works, but assuming you'll have a 6 figure salary 3 years out of college doesn't seem terribly realistic to me. Having been in the corporate world, promotion to that high a level tends to require far more than just being good at your job and putting in the hours. The politics of the situation are key. I'm not saying its impossible. But I'd look up the history of whatever company this is and try to find out what their local hiring practices tend to be like. Sure they'll give you the "there's plenty of room for advancement" in the interview, but is it realistic? Moving up a corporate ladder in a bigger company is generally easier simply because there are more positions available. Sure getting to the top is not easy (near impossible) but getting into a solid position with a decent salary and such tends to be.

[AKA_Bait]

I know I'm probably the only person in America giving this advice these days, but have you considered putting the kids on hold for 3 or 4 years and going to law school?

A good LSAT score and your background could get you a free ride to my alma mater as well as quite a few others. If you go and put your back into it, i.e. pull out the stops to finish in the top 10% of your class, you should have no trouble finding a well paying legal job afterwards.

[Starwulf]

I know I'm probably the only person in America giving this advice these days, but have you considered putting the kids on hold for 3 or 4 years and going to law school?

A good LSAT score and your background could get you a free ride to my alma mater as well as quite a few others. If you go and put your back into it, i.e. pull out the stops to finish in the top 10% of your class, you should have no trouble finding a well paying legal job afterwards.

As he has already explained, neither him and his wife are "in their 20's anymore", the decision now for them is to either have kids now, or not at all(I beat you to the punch about 10-15 posts back)

[tcrudisi]

Now I'll preface this with not knowing pretty much anything about how the fast food/restaurant industry works, but assuming you'll have a 6 figure salary 3 years out of college doesn't seem terribly realistic to me. Having been in the corporate world, promotion to that high a level tends to require far more than just being good at your job and putting in the hours. The politics of the situation are key. I'm not saying its impossible. But I'd look up the history of whatever company this is and try to find out what their local hiring practices tend to be like. Sure they'll give you the "there's plenty of room for advancement" in the interview, but is it realistic? Moving up a corporate ladder in a bigger company is generally easier simply because there are more positions available. Sure getting to the top is not easy (near impossible) but getting into a solid position with a decent salary and such tends to be.

I know some of their GMs make right at $100k/yr. Obviously, just because I'm a GM doesn't mean I'll make that (though their lowest is $65k). However, they promote off results, not experience, and I've seen how quickly and slowly they promote. Based off that, and my experience and how hard I'm willing to work, I'm confident that I'll be a GM within 1 year (honestly, I expect it to be sooner than that) and quite probably a DM within 3 years.

You are right: bigger companies have more room for advancement, but this company is still small and expanding quickly - typically by about 10-15% every year. That means there's plenty of room for upward mobility. In other words: I've done my research on this company and talked to a lot of people who work within it. I know what needs to be done to make myself stand out and get those promotions.

I know I'm probably the only person in America giving this advice these days, but have you considered putting the kids on hold for 3 or 4 years and going to law school?

A good LSAT score and your background could get you a free ride to my alma mater as well as quite a few others. If you go and put your back into it, i.e. pull out the stops to finish in the top 10% of your class, you should have no trouble finding a well paying legal job afterwards.

I am both interested in this and want to pull my hair out. It's a great suggestion and, honestly, it's one I should consider. The problem is that I really, really just don't want to go back to school. I love school and I love learning. I'm just ready to begin the next phase of my life: career, family, bitching about kids on the lawn, etc.

So, truly, thank you. I'm just desperate for other things rather than to continue my education even more.

Thanks, Starwulf. We are in our lower 30s, but the problem arises if we took 4 years to do more education, then I'd need a job and financial stability before we could consider kids, then the next thing you know, we're pushing 40. It's still possible, sure, but we are well aware that there's a large number of factors that make it undesirable to attempt it that late: fertility rates decrease, increased risk of something going wrong for either/both mother and child, we'd both be older and not have less energy to deal with little brats, etc.

[Howl]

Let me start by saying; I only read the first paragraph of your post and didn't read anyone else's, so if you resolved this, disregard.

Spoiler

Show

I know that in business classes people suggest you tailor your resume to each specific job but you're in need of a job NOW not the perfect job in months or years without a financial foundation to stand on. Qualifications are subjective, so recruiters may not agree with what you tailor to be qualificative. Also, you are wasting WAY too much time on the research aspect of it. Hours of your time looking up a company is enough time to put in 3-8 resumes. This really becomes a numbers game, to illustrate; when I first got on the job market I put in as many applications as I could with a generic resume for the position I was looking for. Within three days I had an offer, and the next week I was doing training. Don't be picky, especially since a job is crucial based on where you're at. Also, don't overlook a minimum wage job, every hour of your time you spend looking and not getting a job is an hour you could be making $8 more, or whatever the minimum wage for your area is. That stacks up, slowly, but it does. Also, minimum wage jobs give the perfect opportunity to start seeking new jobs. As far as managerial positions go, being qualified to most employers means two things; having experience in the JOB, not academic experience, and being internal originally. That is, they mostly hire within the company for higher positions, at least at the companies I've worked at. Also, with most places you start at minimum wage with given you're a well spoken, educated individual, you'll be able to outperform at least %80 of your co-workers who see it just as a job, not an opportunity for advancement. Just don't start in the fast food industry, most people who do never get out of it. Hope it's helpful. Good luck!

P.S. This is my personal opinion, take it as such.

[Brother Oni]

It's still possible, sure, but we are well aware that there's a large number of factors that make it undesirable to attempt it that late: fertility rates decrease, increased risk of something going wrong for either/both mother and child, we'd both be older and not have less energy to deal with little brats, etc.

I'd like to congratulate you on your obvious effort on considering this, especially since problems are often compounded (eg: due to your age, something's wrong with the child, resulting in additional care requirements which is harder to deal with because you're older).

Having two of my own (we didn't learn the first time! ), I'm not sure I could handle a third these days, especially since we now know how hard it's going to be.
This isn't even considering issues with the baby's personality (my second was climbing out of his cot before he could even stand unaided, so his playpen with high walls became his bed for nearly a year).

[Eulalios]

I know I'm probably the only person in America giving this advice these days, but have you considered putting the kids on hold for 3 or 4 years and going to law school?

A good LSAT score and your background could get you a free ride to my alma mater as well as quite a few others. If you go and put your back into it, i.e. pull out the stops to finish in the top 10% of your class, you should have no trouble finding a well paying legal job afterwards.

This is undoubtedly over optimistic. *Everyone* who goes to law school expects to finish in the top 10%, but for 90% of people, that doesn't happen. Grading is utterly subjective ... and I say this as someone who did finish in the top 20%.

Unlike some of my classmates who did better academically, I was extremely fortunate to have already landed a FT consultant position at a firm (based on prior experience), before finishing law school. I watched with dismay as some good friends went through exactly your current situation, but with the additional debt load from three years of graduate tuition (not even to mention the living expenses for those who dropped work to focus entirely on making that "magic" top of the top quintile).

Meanwhile, my neighbor the diesel mechanic, with his fifteen years of experience, parlayed a layoff into a shop supervisor position and moved to a nicer house in a nicer town.

I expect you will be better off financially if you follow the plan you've stated, than if you went to law school. I would give the same advice to anyone who has already established experience and an upward path in an open industry.

[Crow]

My plight is similar to many recent college graduates: I cannot find a job. I've been looking for about a year now with very little success. I admit that I've been a little bit picky (since I would literally drown in debt if I accepted a minimum wage job), but honestly, I've applied to every job that I am qualified for that would pay a living wage.

Oh yes, because NO income is so much better than SOME income.

Start by getting a job, and then start looking for a better job. It is easier that way.

[Fri]

Oh yes, because NO income is so much better than SOME income.

Start by getting a job, and then start looking for a better job. It is easier that way.

He answered that already.

The problem is that I can't start as a department manager because the pay is too low. It's literally easier for me to survive without a job than it is for me to take one at department manager pay. As soon as I get a job, I have to start paying off more than $100,000 in student loan debt, which the typical department manager pay just won't let me make monthly payments on and still buy food. (Without working, I can get Food Stamps, so at least I'm not going hungry.) Stupid, isn't it? And yet that's the rut I'm stuck in right now.

[Tyndmyr]

It's a nasty rut to be sure, but sometimes you have to plow through it to get anywhere. And it at least gets you started paying down that student loan pile(I believe economic hardship deferments are also possible, though, depending on how much you make) which also helps long term.

Multiple jobs is another option to overcome a shortage in pay. It sucks hard, and probably is untenable once you do have kids, but it might help get you through the initial period of low pay.

Everything has tradeoffs...odds are you're going to have to grab shift supervisor, etc positions to get a foot in the door, but if you pick a healthy, growing company, the odds of openings above you giving additional chances to move up improve. And you'll get current work experience. A longer work experience track record and recent experience to point to helps a ton.

[Crow]

Yes, I saw that, Fri. But the bottom line is that he has been unemployed for a year because he is looking for that one job, and it is not materializing.

In that time, he could be actually earning, working a job, and establishing himself with a company that he may even be able to move up in. At the very least, having a job looks better on your resume, and provides you with a solid working reference. I'd much rather check in with someone's current boss than some dude he worked for 4 years ago.

As a business owner, I am going to hire the guy that has been working for me or somebody else for a while before I hire a kid out of college, especially for a management position ("Why hello, guy I've never met. I know that you know absolutely jack about my business and how we operate, but please allow me to put this entire division in your hands...").

As a matter of fact, almost all of the people I've hired fresh out of college have been turds, with a few exceptions. Not that OP is a turd, but the OP needs to contend with all of the people in similar situations who have given recent college grads a bad name. I've hired a lot of people, and the best ones have almost always been the ones who were already working. It shows a (surprise, surprise) willingness to work. Hard workers don't make excuses.

But the bottom line is that if you can survive on no income, you can survive on some income minus student loan payments. Being unemployed hurts your prospects of landing another job.

edit: As tyndmyr pointed out, a second job can help. I worked a second job delivering pizzas part time to help get on my feet. For a part-time job, it ended up paying pretty well with the under-the-table tips, and gas allowance (though most places don't offer gas reimbusement).

[AKA_Bait]

So, truly, thank you. I'm just desperate for other things rather than to continue my education even more.

Understandable. I'm otherwise going to have to agree with Crow. Find something and keep looking. Use temp agencies and the like if you need to. The medium/long-term downside of not working anywhere is probably worse than the short term downside of working and making less. Honestly, one of the reasons I suggested law school was because, generally speaking, most employers don't give a gnome's private parts what you did beforehand so a year resume gap won't be a problem going forward.

I watched with dismay as some good friends went through exactly your current situation, but with the additional debt load from three years of graduate tuition (not even to mention the living expenses for those who dropped work to focus entirely on making that "magic" top of the top quintile).

Just to clarify here, you should not go to law school if you are paying more than minimal tuition unless you are going to, like, Harvard. Any decent LSAT score should net a full or near full scholarship to a lower ranked school.

And, as I mentioned, this is not a popular position to take these days. It has worked out pretty well for me and pretty much everyone I know from law school who didn't sit on their druthers in terms of finding a job during and after graduation. That said, there is no shortage of very irate recent graduates having a tough time finding a place in the current market.

We are in our lower 30s, but the problem arises if we took 4 years to do more education, then I'd need a job and financial stability before we could consider kids, then the next thing you know, we're pushing 40.

Trade down for a younger wife?

[warty goblin]

I know I'm probably the only person in America giving this advice these days, but have you considered putting the kids on hold for 3 or 4 years and going to law school?

A good LSAT score and your background could get you a free ride to my alma mater as well as quite a few others. If you go and put your back into it, i.e. pull out the stops to finish in the top 10% of your class, you should have no trouble finding a well paying legal job afterwards.

Also, hasn't the bottom kinda dropped out of the legal job market, on account of all the people with law degrees? It's not an area I pay a lot of attention to, but the last I heard, actually getting a decent job out of law school was difficult, and the job itself was likely to be extremely brutal. Somebody I know who followed this track and graduated in the top 10% of her Harvard class described her job as constant finals level crunch.

[AKA_Bait]

Also, hasn't the bottom kinda dropped out of the legal job market, on account of all the people with law degrees? It's not an area I pay a lot of attention to, but the last I heard, actually getting a decent job out of law school was difficult, and the job itself was likely to be extremely brutal. Somebody I know who followed this track and graduated in the top 10% of her Harvard class described her job as constant finals level crunch.

Much as I'd like to get into it, this really isn't the forum to discuss the current legal market. 1. Because we have derailed this thread enough with it. 2. Because any discussion of the broader issues gets a little too close to the prohibited topics of real world politics etc. for comfort.

[Karoht]

If you deliver pizza's you can also deliver other things at the same time, so long as you are good at juggling the priorities.
Nothing says management material faster than 'demonstrating a solid grasp on juggling multiple priorities at once.'

Got a car?

[EmeraldRose]

Hey tcrudisi. I'm curious where things stand. Did you accept either job offer? Any resolution? Hope it is working out for you and your wife...

[tcrudisi]

Hey tcrudisi. I'm curious where things stand. Did you accept either job offer? Any resolution? Hope it is working out for you and your wife...

Thanks for asking! I have both very good and very bad news.

My first week at the fast food restaurant came with mixed results. The training went well, I aced the exam, and I got along very well with my co-workers. Unfortunately, the long hours did me in. I worked 62 hours my first week (and that was in 5 out of 6 days since I started on day 2), so the hours are very long. I wasn't tired, but my feet did give out on me. Badly. By the end of the second day, I was having trouble standing. I invested in some new soles, a heel cup, epsom salts, ibuprofen, icy hot, and ice packs. I used them all liberally but they really didn't help. By the end of the week, I was literally collapsing because I had such a sharp and immense pain that went from my heels all the way up the back of my legs.

Why? Well, I have a few guesses. I've been out of work since 2008 and in college since then. Granted, I did walk everywhere in college. I walked around Europe. My feet would get sore, but it would go away after a week or so. Not this pain. This pain was comparable to when I broke my arm. When I say that the pain was intolerable, I mean it. It doesn't help that I weigh a bit more than back in 2008 and worked 70-80 hour weeks then.

So, I went to the doctor yesterday. It's not heel spurs (thank goodness, as that's a permanent problem), and he suspects its just major inflamation. He gave me a doctor's note and a prescription medicine that I can use to help me sleep. (The pain has woken me up the last two nights.) I'm still waiting to hear back from the restaurant and I expect to find that I've been fired. That's what the GM says he expects, though its not his call.

But, on to better news: my resume has been kicked up to the VP for an area manager position that I've been coveting for a while now. I believe I referred to them as QO in previous posts (or simply the gas station). I spoke with him on the phone and he said that my name was on a list to be interviewed. Not for the position in eastern NC that I applied to, but rather to a new position that is opening up where I'm living right now. They will give interviews for the eastern NC position next week and then beginning interviewing for the new position after that. I'm really excited about this as it's multi-unit management and would be far more beneficial to my career aspirations in the long-term. The pay is much worse than a manager position as the fast food restaurant (heh, as funny as it is to say that), but emotionally, mentally, and physically the overall job is much better.

So right now I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm also not walking for a few days while my heels heal. Just sitting here, without moving, I'm getting sharp pains that radiate from my heels. Joy of joys. Luckily, if it is inflammation, it is temporary, so I'll be back on my feet in no time.

[warty goblin]

The being on your feet all day thing takes some adapting to in restaurant work. I've never had it that bad, but I've certainly been in some serious agony from my longer shifts, until my feet got used to the punishment. I'd advise boots that provide very good ankle support; I found Red Wings to work very well in this regard. As a bonus they also protect nicely from falling knives, moderately heavy objects, etc. Varying one's stance can also help, as can walking whenever possible - it's not the moving, it's the standing that gets me anyway.

Also, rubber mats make a lot of difference. Try to stand on those whenever possible.

[Pluto!]

Hi Tcrudisi, I think you should apply in those job that is well-known to you and many company wants an experienced person who has done this before.I think it is your main obstacle.I said it from my opinion to chose your career and I know if you have experienced and done it before you will get the job.Thnaks

Something tells me that the problem was resolved (or at least changed) about 2 years ago...

[factotum]

Something tells me that the problem was resolved (or at least changed) about 2 years ago...

And something tells me that you're responding to a spambot message.

[Pluto!]

If we help them along, our spambots could become happy, productive members of our community!