Kobolds as PC's?

[azule74]

So I have made the Uber fighter's, and now I am looking to just make the most non-traditional front line character. I am thinking a Kobold Barbarian or Fighter. Since the Kobold race by it self is a 1/4CR am I in my right to ask my DM to allow me to take a few levels in NPC Warrior Class to get the CR equal with a normal 1st level character? What do you all think?

[Duke of URL]

No.

Kobold can be used as PCs, as specified in the SRD:

Kobold Characters

Kobold characters possess the following racial traits.

* -4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
* Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
* A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.
* Racial Feats: A kobold character gains feats according to its character class.
* +1 natural armor bonus.
* Special Qualities (see above): Light sensitivity.
* Automatic Languages: Draconic. Bonus Languages: Common, Undercommon.
* Favored Class: Sorcerer.
* Level adjustment +0.

No "negative" LA, I'm afraid.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Remind me again why anyone would play that? -6 stats?!?

[mostlyharmful]

There's a couple of articles on the WotC site that add to the Races of the Dragon book to bring up the Kobolds as a playable race, it shouldn't be too hard to get your DM to allow that material, esspecially considering that hte MM version is perpusefully borked to turn them into PC speed bumps rather than a playable race.

[azule74]

Huh, okay. Know of any races that have a negative CR?

[azule74]

Remind me again why anyone would play that? -6 stats?!?

Because I am playing in a group of uber charcters and just want to make the most absured front line character I can. Anyother ideas?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The Races of the Dragon Web Enhancement has "Variant Racial Traits" for kobolds. Unlike most Variant rules, these are not listed as actually replacing any existing rules, indicating you should be able to add them to your kobold and get a shot in the arm without being overpowered.

Of course, other people already mentioned it. But only I provide the link!

+2 size AC, +2 Size to hit, +8 Size to hide...

Check again. The change in size modifiers only apply on opposed checks. Which pretty much limits it to Hide Checks.

[UserClone]

Which you mis-typed.

[Angel in Black]

Remind me again why anyone would play that? -6 stats?!?

To Koboldly go where no man has gone before. Also, they're ridiculously annoying to hit. 13 AC with straight 10's + 11's (before adjustment, of course), and in 25 point buy at level one that AC can easily hit 21 (10 pts for 16 DEX, +2 DEX racial, +1 size, +1 natural, chain shirt, buckler). Give this guy a light crossbow and a rogue level and you're set, because of that awesome bonus to Hide checks (4 ranks, +4 DEX bonus, +4 size bonus, -2 ACP for a +10 at level 1 (!)). Another thing people forget about is that they retain a 30 ft movement rate, even though they are small creatures. Kobold rogues kick ass. That's not to say they aren't also awesome as sorcerers, but I digress.

On the other hand, making a fighter type is a Bad Idea(tm). That -4 STR and -2 CON hurts, a LOT.

[Ralfarius]

Here's an interesting thing: Kobolds are small sized, but have a base speed of 30 feet. That can be kind of handy. Sorta.

[AmberVael]

Actually, you can make a fighter style kobold pretty well if you use Tome of Battle. There's a feat that allows you to use dex for damage instead of strength somewhere in there...

[azule74]

On the other hand, making a fighter type is a Bad Idea(tm). That -4 STR and -2 CON hurts, a LOT.

Yea I was thinking that maybe it would be a warlock and bag the front line character idea.

[azule74]

Actually, you can make a fighter style kobold pretty well if you use Tome of Battle. There's a feat that allows you to use dex for damage instead of strength somewhere in there...

And then just make sure that I have a high dex. Good call on that one thanks.

[VerdugoExplode]

I'd go for something from the Tome of Battle. The vast majority of the maneuvers you get add extra dice to your damage regardless of the initiators size, with the shadow hand feat letting you use your dex instead of your strength to add damage to your normal attacks. The end result being a small kobold capable of performing amazing feats of martial prowess and producing excellent damage in a very small package.

Damn, someone beat me to it, I agree with them.

[AmberVael]

Hehehe. At least you gave the name of the feat and more detail.

I personally made that build. I was a Kobold Swordsage, level one. I split my focus between Desert Wind and Shadow Hand, getting the requisite skills for the Dex to melee attacks, and then focusing on the Desert Wind's boosts to add fire damage.

[azule74]

So it sounds like a Kobold fighter is possible as a PC, it would be a long build, but worth it.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Hehehe. At least you gave the name of the feat and more detail.

Actually, Shadow Hand is the name of the discipline the feat is linked to. The name of the feat itself is "Shadow Blade".

It should be noted that unlike what Weapon Finesse does to the attack roll, the use of this feat does not replace your Strength modifier on damage. It simply adds your Dexterity modifier to the grand total.

[Lord Tataraus]

Actually, a Kobold fighter is a viable option. Especially with slight build. Also, Races of the Dragon has a lot of good feats. Especially Dragonwrought (Kobold only feat).

[azule74]

Actually, Shadow Hand is the name of the discipline the feat is linked to. The name of the feat itself is "Shadow Blade".

It should be noted that unlike what Weapon Finesse does to the attack roll, the use of this feat does not replace your Strength modifier on damage. It simply adds your Dexterity modifier to the grand total.

Yes i knew that about weapon finesse. So it would have to be my first 2 feats as a fighter. BUT still pretty cool.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Man, everybody and their little brother plays kobolds nowadays (and they can be quite good, even as frontliners, as shown above). I'm a goblin fan, myself.

[azule74]

Man, everybody and their little brother plays kobolds nowadays. I'm a goblin fan, myself.

I thought about a Gobo, but they are stronger than a Kobold. I have one as a cohort in a game. Fun.

[AmberVael]

Actually, Shadow Hand is the name of the discipline the feat is linked to. The name of the feat itself is "Shadow Blade".

It should be noted that unlike what Weapon Finesse does to the attack roll, the use of this feat does not replace your Strength modifier on damage. It simply adds your Dexterity modifier to the grand total.

Interestingly, the short description of Shadow Blade says otherwise. I wonder if this was an overlook, a misprint, or something else?

[Morty]

I'm a goblin fan, myself.

Well, to be honest, goblins while being amesome are preety weak as a race too. But WoTC didn't deem it prudent to remake them as they did with kobolds.
Core-only though, kobolds aren't weak, they're laughable as anything other than spellcaster.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I wonder if this was an overlook, a misprint, or something else?

It's an overlook!

*slap!*

It's a misprint!

*slap!*

It's an overlook and a misprint!

...

Yeah, in these cases, full text trumps short description.