Civilization 5: Giant Multiplayer Robot in the Playground

[Beowulf DW]

As a spectator: Isn't that pretty much what the Prussians used to do?

[Luzahn]

Pretty much, it's a classic one. What else does a highly-militarized nation do when it is bored?

Now that I think about it, I haven't posted an image of the Empire in a while.

Spoiler: To the Spectators:

Show

Yeah, it's a time-honored and useful strategy of the central European people, and in no way is part of a plot to get the other empires to weaken their militaries and to rely on my troops.

[Beowulf DW]

Pretty much, it's a classic one. What else does a highly-militarized nation do when it is bored?

...

[Mx.Silver]

(not quoting to avoid spoiler tags)
Invade their neighbours?

[Beowulf DW]

Isn't that what all countries with bored militaries do?

[factotum]

Isn't that what all countries with bored militaries do?

No, sometimes the bored military takes things into their own hands and starts a civil war or a coup.

[Beowulf DW]

Now that would be an interesting mechanic. "The city of Wroclaw is tired of being without pearls! They have declared a rebellion against your harsh rule."

[factotum]

It's in the game, actually--if your empire's happiness falls below a certain level, your cities have a chance to revolt and join another civ.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Maria's Portuguese Haiku Dairy - 500-ish AD

I am sending out a
Shipload of hammers to keep
The hammers flowing

It's in the game, actually--if your empire's happiness falls below a certain level, your cities have a chance to revolt and join another civ.

Only after ideologies have been discovered. So at this rate, July 2014.

[Driderman]

It's in the game, actually--if your empire's happiness falls below a certain level, your cities have a chance to revolt and join another civ.

You sure? I've played a multiplayer game where I had major unhappiness (like 15+ unhappiness, which isn't all bad if you're playing Aztecs with full Honor policy tree) for a very long time, and I never had any issue with cities switching sides.

[Wookieetank]

You sure? I've played a multiplayer game where I had major unhappiness (like 15+ unhappiness, which isn't all bad if you're playing Aztecs with full Honor policy tree) for a very long time, and I never had any issue with cities switching sides.

I've had 25+ unhappiness myself and not had a city switch sides. I have however had loads and loads of barbars popping up all over my Civilization. Hurray for free culture

[factotum]

It only happens below -20 happiness, I believe, and it's never actually happened to *me* because I've never let my happiness sink that low--it did happen to one of the AI civs in a single player game I played through, though, so I can attest it definitely occurs.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Portugal

Show

Just a friendly message to the Kingdom of Portugal concerning the Polish military on your border. These men intend no harm to your kingdom, but were merely heading to clear out a barbarian camp, which you appear to already have eliminated.

[Driderman]

To France/Mr Silver:

Spoiler

Show

Since we are to have peace, Chief Pocatello has decided to offer you a fair trade. Wrongs have been righted and the Shoshone do not carry grudges, so let us trade and prosper now.

To Indonesia/Qwertystop:

Spoiler

Show

Barring any unforeseen incidents, a missionary is on it's way to your cities.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Curtain fire diplomacy!

Spoiler: to Indonesia

Show

The Shosone are getting too big for their boots and I'm considering declaring war to knock them down a peg, before I do so I would like to know if you have any concerns about such an action.

Spoiler: to Poland

Show

I have the barbarians more or less under control now. I won't really want your help against barbarians for a short while as the only ones I'll be going after will be city state quests.

The Shosone are getting too big for their boots and I'm considering declaring war to knock them down a peg, before I do so I would like to know if you have any concerns about such an action.

Spoiler: to Venice

Show

I have civil service now, so you can explore past me and I can get that near wreck that has been hovering around your borders back in for repairs.

I have a swordsman near a barbarian camp that your ally Sydney has asked me to eradicate. I thought I should ask you, as Sydney's current protector, if taking our this camp would be against your interest. If I don't take it out now Poland will probably be able to get their cavalry in to take it out faster than you can.

The Poles are getting too big for their boots and I'm considering declaring war to knock them down a peg, before I do so I would like to know if you have any concerns about such an action.

The Polish military-agricultural complex is clearly not only a threat to world peace but also to the Polish economy. Showing him the error of his ways wouldn't be jingoistic, it would be a favour to him.

The Poles are expanding in meagre desert land that nobody else wants anyway, but I fear that this is part of a religious strategy than will make all out citizens subservient to Kazimier's nonsensical cult of personality. Nobody else can match the potential faith output of a Polish desert Empire that will flood the world with missionaries. Our non threatening religions can be spread to where ever we want peacefully, but the so called Imperial Cant requires you to worship Kazimier as a god and therefore spreading it beyond Poland's borders would be a blatant assault on our sovereignty.

Spoiler: to France

Show

The Poles are getting too big for their boots and I'm considering declaring war to knock them down a peg, before I do so I would like to know if you have any concerns about such an action.

I know Poland did help to mediate between you and the Shosone, but if I was in your place then their half hearted fence sitting wouldn't give my any lasting loyalty towards them.

The Poles are expanding in meagre desert land that nobody else wants anyway, but I fear that this is part of a religious strategy than will make all out citizens subservient to Kazimier's nonsensical cult of personality. Nobody else can match the potential faith output of a Polish desert Empire that will flood the world with missionaries. Our non threatening religions can be spread to where ever we want peacefully, but the so called Imperial Cant requires you to worship Kazimier as a god and therefore spreading it beyond Poland's borders would be a blatant assault on our sovereignty.

Spoiler: to Shosone

Show

I've just researched civil service and have a ship near your coast that would like to explore south of your territory. Opening borders between out nations would be wise for the both of us, no?

The Poles are getting too big for their boots and I'm considering declaring war to knock them down a peg, before I do so I would like to know if you have any concerns about such an action.

Poland has already taken a ruin from an island east of your city of Agaidika and his scout is in the area to take another nearby one from a barbarian infested island. If you want to protect such a ruin you should be wary.

[Driderman]

To Portugal/Closet Skeleton:

Spoiler

Show

While we have some concerns regarding our Polish neighbours and their insistence on getting involved in our conflicts, we have no interest in fighting them. That, however, does not mean that we object to your tribe doing so.

[Qwertystop]

Spoiler: To Shoshone

Show

That seems fine. By the way, Portugal says you're getting too big for your boots and is considering war, but wanted to know if I cared. Not sure if he'll actually care whether I cared, since I don't have much of an army.

Spoiler: To Portugal

Show

No, that seems fine.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Spoiler: to Shosone

Show

Those two islands east of Agaidika would be a good place for a city. If I were to found a city there (and it wouldn't be a for a while) it would be a trade post beneficial to you, but I feel I must ask how you would feel about having a Portuguese base so close to your lands.

Spoiler: to Poland

Show

I've seen your scout hanging around those islands east of that Shosone city next to Ulluru.

It would probably be suicidal to take the ruins on the barbarian infested southern island like you have with the ones on the northern island, but I have no hope of getting troops there to claim the ruins for myself and would rather see them in your hands than in the warmongering Shosone's.

Spoiler: to Spectators

Show

My economy is in no condition to actually start a war, so if you're expecting some overly complicated double cross out of my last diplomacy attempt you'll probably be disappointed since I'd basically need Poland and the Shosone to be leaping at each other's throats before I'd consider it.


Report of the Portuguese Cartography Society 560 AD


Our knowledge of Shosone lands is limited, but they may be the largest empire around. We estimate them having at least 4 cities, even though their capital's population is meagre compared to Venice and Lisboa or even Warsaw.




Our third warship has explored much of the continent's western coast.

Portuguese Census - 530 AD
A report on the capital and colonies of the Portuguese nation.


The island colony of Potosi is primarily a mining and fishing outpost. If it is able to finish Petra then it may also be possible to establish agriculture on the island. Our next plan will be to establish Incense production, build a market to increase trade and purchase the last set of fishing rights. With half our trade routes supplying the city, it is unfortunately more of a drain than a boon to our finances. Afterwards, a library to stop the barren colony being a drain on Portuguese science can be considered.



The city of Porto has a more agricultural character, marred as it is by the large swamp nearby and the lack of fresh water. The city was set back economically by the recent Pirate wars that forced it to do nothing but build trade ships, but we hope to build the temple of Chitzen Itza here soon. With its library, gems and spices Porto, unlike Potosi, is not a drain on the Portuguese economy but once the golden age ends its buildings will be costing more gold than its tiles can produce.


The glorious capital of Lisbon makes just about enough money to keep our people afloat. Despite some agricultural development much of the population are hunter gatherers working in the forests, and there is also limited wine and iron production. The only Portuguese city with specialists at work in the city itself, its next target will be to complete a national epic followed by a market.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Portugal:

Show

For now, the Imperium waits. The heretics threaten the stability of the continent, but dissent amongst our people currently prevents growth.

We will not oppose your efforts, however, and will be willing to assist once our High Artificers complete a certain new technology.

[Mx.Silver]

Bah! Stinking Gaia Worshippers in Orleans. A true Granfalloon if ever there was one.

Spoiler: To Driderman

Show

Sorry, didn't notice the deal notification on my turn I'm afraid

I'll get back you to on things when the next turn swings around.

Now, France returns to the Diplomacy game. We brought croissants.

Spoiler: To Poland

Show

Your offer of military help against barbarians is no longer needed; with the Shoshone no longer ravaging our borders, we can handle most of the filthy savages threatening our borders.

On that subject, we now have our second source of incense, which you get first pick on (we do also have silk, if you'd rather but we'd need your spare cotton in return if you want that).

Sincerely Napolean.

Spoiler: To Portugal

Show

It is true that in terms of direct help Poland did leave something to be desired, and at a fairly high cost, which is what my above communication to them concerned.
However, there is also the fact that Kazimier is the main thing keeping Pocatello off my back and without the threat of Polish involvement The Shoshone -who are also a threat religiously, thanks to their henge of stones - would be unchecked. I am therefore loathe to antagonise the Polish at the moment, particularly since it would present the Shoshone to get into Polan'd good graces, and that would be a dark day for all of us.

Sincerely, Napoleon

[Driderman]

Fear my religious indoctrinations!

To Indonesia/Qwertystop:

Spoiler

Show

Interesting, since the Portugese asked us much the same thing, only about the Polish.

To Portugal/Closet Skeleton:

Spoiler

Show

As such, the islands west of Agaidika are consider Shoshone territory. Since you yourself say that you have no immediate ability to settle them, there is no reason to discuss it as such. However, we would most likely expect some form of tribute in exchange for giving up what we consider our sovereign territory.

To Poland/Luzahn:

Spoiler

Show

Our Indonesian friends report that Portugese diplomats have asked him on his opinion should they attack us. Curiously, Portugese diplomats have asked Chief Pocatello the exact same thing about our Polish neighbours.
It would seem that the Portugese are trying to cause dissent among us. Perhaps you would ask your friends the French if the Portugese have raised similiar questions with them?

[Qwertystop]

Spoiler: To Shoshone

Show

Odd. I wonder what they told the Polish?

[Driderman]

To Indonesia/Qwertystop:

Spoiler

Show

Most likely that they'd want to attack the Shoshone.

[Silverraptor]

[Driderman]

To Indonesia/Qwertystop:

Spoiler

Show

As a friend to Indonesia, Chief Pocatello would advise that you see to your defenses, if only to dissuade attacks from predatory nations that might think you weak. We would not put it past neither France nor Poland to target you with their militaries if they perceive you as a weaker nation. At the very least, some archers and melee units to dissuade an attack would be prudent, if you haven't some already.

To France/Mr. Silver:

Spoiler

Show

Do not feel worried about any missionaries you may see, they are not headed for your cities.

[Qwertystop]

Spoiler: To Shoshone

Show

Yeah, working on that.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To the Shoshone:

Show

We thank you for this information. Preparations concerning Portugal may need to be begun.

Spoiler: To France:

Show

We would indeed be interested in your incense. You have the appreciation of the Imperium.

Spoiler: To the Spectators:

Show

I do not trust the words of the Shoshone. Even if Portugal plots something, he's still in the way. My best bet may be to turtle and just keep my tech rate higher than everyone else. I'm clearly in a lead at the moment in that respect, the Shoshone's high land-based score is deceptive and works in my favor.

We will rain fire on them all in due time. The Emperor Protects. ()

[Mx.Silver]

So, I've stumbled across a bug with the Diplomacy system.
If you modify a deal someone else offers you, then click on the old 'deal offered' notification (either on the notifications stack or on the diplomacy window) you can then accept or refuse that newly modified deal as if it had just been offered to you. I've tested this a couple of times, and have been able to milk one player out of basically everything they're able to trade. This includes their cities and making declarations of war.
I have obviously reloaded my turn to avoid taking advantage of this, but it's something we'll need to keep in mind for the rest of the game.




And now: French Diplomacy.

Spoiler: To The Shoshone

Show

While your ambassadors are welcome, as befits the spirit of peace, unfortunately due to a prior agreement with Poland we are not able to grant you incense at this time. Much as our deal would be beneficial to both of us, The Polish do have us over a barrel at the moment and I'm not entirely sure we want to antagonise them at this point.


Incidentally, in our newfound spirit of peace, might I ask where your missionaries are going?
Sincerely, Napoleon.

Spoiler: To Poland

Show

Very well, you may have the incense as per our agreement. It should probably be noted that The Shoshone have been sniffing at our resources. Hopefully nothing much will come of it, although our peace treaty has expired (and they still have our iron).

Sincerely, Napoleon

Spoiler: To Portugal

Show

On the 'too big for their boots' topic, do you have any thoughts regarding The Shoshone? Our peace treaty recently expired, so if you've heard any rumours about Pocatello feeling expansionist, we'd appreciate the warning. In any event, I'd consider them more of a threat than the Polish.

Sincerely, Napoleon

Spoiler: To Venice

Show

Not actually got much to say here, just throwing up some stuff for completeness sake. Out of curiosity, have Portugal been saying anything to you about some of the other nations?

Sincerely, Napoleon

Spoiler: To Indonesia

Show

Not actually got much to say here, just throwing up some stuff for completeness sake. Out of curiosity, have Portugal been saying anything to you about some of the other nations?
Sincerely, Napoleon

Spoiler: To The Spectators

Show

'Play, play, play, play your stronger neighbours against each other'

More seriously though, the Peace Treaty expiration is a bit of an issue, given The Shoshone still have a bit of a border advantage. Hopefully the incense will keep Poland on side for a while - assuming Portugal doesn't cause trouble on that front which could be a problem.

However, I have noticed one slight advantage from my lack of decent coast. I've basically ignored the entire 'sailing' line of tech at the moment, which means that my tech score seems a lot lower than it should be, given I'm into the medieval era right now. Hopefully this will let me play 'poor beleaguered France' a bit more effectively. Even if not, it's still giving my trade-routes a fair bit of science.

[Driderman]

To France/Mr. Silver:

Spoiler

Show

The missionaries are headed east, to Indonesia. A shame about the trade, but hardly essential. Maybe we can trade once you are done paying tribute to the Polish.

To spectators:

Spoiler

Show

Poland really played France, in my opinion. France is giving Poland luxuries free of charge due to their "involvement" in our earlier conflict (which pretty much amounts to Poland saying "hey, you should stop") where the French could probably have managed a better deal with me, and avoided losing their wine in the process. Oh well, I'm not complaining.
Also, getting more and more sure that the Polish are plotting against me since basically, it's what they should be doing. I'm first on the scoreboard, but that's mostly because of my extra starting tiles as Shoshone. In reality Poland, or maybe Venice, is probably in the lead right now as they have tech and money advantage, and my early-game military advantage is gone. I have good access to luxuries though, and my religions + 35% defense in and near all cities that follow my religion should make me a very unfun prospect to fight, so my best bet right now is play nice until I get my Comanche Riders, and then I can warmonger again if I feel like it.
Techwise, once I'm done with my next 3 research goals, I'll probably beeline for Gunpowder and cross my fingers that I get Himeji Castle before anyone else, upping my defense bonus to 50%. I'll probably be saving a Great Engineer for it, to better my odds of grabbing it. Moshon Kahni is rather smallish for a capital right now, but I should think that my +8 food from Hanging Gardens and religious buildings should even the gap now that I've put it back on food focus.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Spoiler: reply to Napoleon

Show

I already knew you'd be happy with me attacking the Shoshone, so asking you was unnecessary.

What I really need is Poland to go to war with the Shoshone without me having to pay Poland to start it. I don't want to ally with the Shoshone and let them take any actual Polish territory either. From what they've said, the Shoshone are too scared to pick on someone their own size and Poland wants to wait for a tech advantage.

Would you be interested in a pact where if the Shoshone declare war on you, I'll declare war on them and if Poland declares war on me you'll help me?

Spoiler: to Venice

Show

Just double checking that you won't cause a diplomatic incident if I take away Sydney from being your ally? I can still retreat and take out a different barbarian camp.