Civilization 5: Giant Multiplayer Robot in the Playground

[Mx.Silver]

Spoiler: To Indonesia

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Just so you know, Poland are on board with this idea as well. Consider, Portugal have done little for you lately while the Shoshone have been content to let you take the blame for the proposals they benefit from, while simultaneously making proposals of their own which you do not want (such as the World's Fair). Both also seem far more concerned that the other does not win rather than they do so they're unlikely to complain to you about. Besides, even if they do, you can just say you didn't want to cross the nation with nukes and the nation with a large military in striking distance of your cities.

You have very little to lose here, and quite a lot to gain - my own small number of delegates guarantees I have to act in the consensus interests, after all so I couldn't very well screw with your interests come proposal times, so on that front you'd be extra secure. We'd certainly owe you a favour...

Sincerely, Napoleon.

[Driderman]

To France:

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Even though we appreciate your diplomatic response we are well aware that you could vote for whoever you wished. You may want to consider that your continued independence in the future, especially now that your autocratic ideology has started to cause trouble in both Poland and Portugal, may rely on the goodwill of the Shoshone Nation and that the Shoshone lands encompassing the heartland of your nation is a key factor in your defensive position. That being said, we appreciate your abstaining from voting for Maria and a formal agreement on Open Borders will be sent as soon as it is verified.
Assuming you have managed to position yourself as the new host, we are not necessarily opposed to this, so long as you consider the fact that the opportunity only presented itself because we let it.

To spectators:

Spoiler

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Tried to shake things up a bit by forcing a Host vote and voting for myself instead of Indonesia. I kinda doubt anyone else will vote for me, but there's been enough shaky relations that I suspect neither Poland nor Portugal can drum up support either. Indonesia is sort of a wild card in this regard but in any case it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
If Portugal gets the host seat I'm pretty sure they'll try to use it to go at either me or Poland and that might result in conflict. Still not sure Portugal realized that the Polish were supplying me with subs during our war, but I might let it slip if it seems appropriate.
If Poland gets the seat he'll likely be too cautious to use it to antagonize me, but on the other hand he knows he needs to curtail Portugal by now (their annexation of the entirety of Venice has put them number 1 on all demographics other than Literacy (science, which the Polish still have a massive lead in) and Approval (Happiness, which I'm the king of currently) so if he's smart he'll do that. Alternately, he'll use it to try and contain the Autocracy ideology from France that's causing problems in all nations but mine by this point.
Of course, France might also manage to gain the seat for themselves, in which case they'll probably use it to further their ideology, which will make them very dependent on my protection since I'm pretty much their best defense as French heartlands are more or less encompassed by Shoshone lands, and I'm the one nation that isn't having any major problems with their ideological tourism, other than Indonesia.

[Luzahn]

Apologies for holding onto the turn right now, but I just want to get some diplomatic information before I voted for the new world council host.

Spoiler: To Indonesia:

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Any thoughts on France's proposal to back him? I will support the measure if you plan to do so as well. I wish to avoid giving either Portugal or the Shoshone more diplomatic sway.

[Qwertystop]

Okay, so I think that's everyone asking me to vote for each other and/or themselves.

Spoiler: Shoshone

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Nope

Spoiler: France

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Sure

Spoiler: Poland

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Sure

Spoiler: Portugal

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Nope

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Portugal:

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Maria, the Polish senate would like to know the purpose of the fleet currently passing our northwestern border. Are you planning for a strike against the Shoshone, or simply securing your own waters?

The Empire would certainly appreciate being privy to your tactics. The presence of the Shoshone to our south is still a concern, after all.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Spoiler: to poland

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They are merely on exercises. They'll be returning to somewhere they can better respond to threats soon.

There are a lot of pirates about on the western coast of the new world you see so I was thinking of sending them over, but I have a few ships over there already that should be enough.

I'm afraid if you wanted to attack the Shoshone with me you should have done so 40 years ago when I was still at war. I may consider helping you in the unlikely circumstance of a Shoshone or French attack and the even more unlikely situation of you being near defeat but your dubious track record as an ally has made me suspicious and unable to make promises. The Shoshone were only a threat to me because they supported Venice and that is no longer a problem, but on the other hand their power in the world congress is annoying.

On the other hand if the Shoshone vote for themselves then Indonesia will lose the ability to make proposals and Order won't control both proposals so that will possible change the World Congress a lot.

I just got hit by pro-autocratic dissidents and won't be in a state to fight a war for a while and anyway I have already acquired far too much territory to be able to sensibly expand any further. I don't really want to annihilate the Shoshone any more if that just allows France to take cities that would give them even more tourism and destroy my happiness permanently.

The only anti-Shoshone plan I would even consider would be to puppet their city state allies and then sell them to a third party who would liberate them and keep them out of Shoshone influence. I don't want to cause any more bloodshed or upset the balance of power any further. Unless I research and build hotels and my tourism is still so weak that I absolutely have to destroy France in order to stop these dissidents but I want to avoid that.

Spoiler: to Indonesia

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I didn't ask you to vote for anyone, I merely suggested that you vote for Poland.

Not that voting for anyone except the me isn't practically the same as voting for the Shoshone.

Spoiler: to Spectators

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I was going to run a little 'simulation' by attacking Poland with my fleet and then reloading without saving. Which is probably cheating.

Here's a screenshot of a current annoyance.


Right click and then 'view image' if you can't read it.

[Driderman]

The Shoshone Nation is happy to be the first to congratulate the French hosting of the World Congress.

To France:

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Congratulations. In an effort to commit to a peaceful discourse between our neighboring states, we would like to extend both an offer of Open Borders, as agreed, and a public Declaration of Friendship between our nations. We would also suggest that our diplomatic capital in the world could help you as Host of the World Congress and that an agreement of cooperation might be useful to both our nations. Surely, anything resolution that bolsters your ideological or cultural growth will find little traction with any other major nation but the Shoshone do no object to it.
Also, if you are still interested in receiving Shoshone missionaries to further the spread of Gaia Worship, and completely incidentially gain 2 more delegates in the World Congress when the majority of your cities have adopted the religion, we are more than happy to oblige.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Portugal:

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It is troubling to hear of your ideological state, though I am sure you understand our position. We are central in this continent, and must remain defensive in our dealings.

Know that, whatever else may come, we are foes of France and its damned policies. Should things grow too dire, we are prepared to...remove the problem.

In fact, as a gesture of good will, we would be willing to transfer a luxury or two to help combat their influence.

Spoiler: To Spectators:

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The unhappiness of Portugal is a bit unnerving, although with that and the fact that his fleet is made up of frigates, I can't see this being a potential sneak attack. My fleet currently stands at four Battleships, two ironclads, and a submarine versus his five (visible) frigates. Offering luxuries means he will lose happiness if he attempts to war with me regardless. The Shoshone are still dangerous however, and a coalition between those two could be devastating. I need to make sure Portugal's Freedom doesn't fall.

[Closet_Skeleton]

In 1944, Portuguese archaelogists in the jungles south of Venice discovered an ancient Venetian document called 'The Papyrus of Ani'. This resulted in a cultural renaissance in Portugal and the adoption of Capitalism as a tenant in the Portuguese Ideology.

In the same year the Portuguese finally caught up with the rest of the world in the ability to prospect for oil and became glad they didn't waste any money importing any of the stuff.

Spoiler: to Poland

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If by 'foe of France' you mean 'I'll give them the world congress' I don't think I speak Polish.

But I can't refuse luxuries at this point even if I have to buy them. My newly acquired policy has only bought me a turn or two against my annoyingly high growth rate.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Portugal:

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Haha! Too true. That, I am afraid, was a diplomatic necessity. The other alternatives would have given the Shoshone or yourself an even more powerful lead in the world congress, and France can be counted on to revoke the Shoshone's religion as well. If the Indonesians had not cooperated, I would have seated you at the head of the table. We still wish our own voices to be heard, after all.

Incidentally, the Imperial language is a strange one. Did you know we have 13 words for "foe"? And, oddly enough, 8 for "snow." We don't even have snow down here.

While the Empire would certainly not turn down a gift of gold in exchange for the luxuries, our primary motivation is to alleviate your happiness situation. The Polish people do not wish to see our fellow free men fall.

[Driderman]

OOC: By the way, I've been having some issues with getting a "offer is no longer valid" message when I've suggested trades to people for the last couple of turns, anyone else encounter this? And have any of you noticed any offers from me during the last 5-10 turns or so?

[Luzahn]

I got one from you a turn ago that read as no longer valid. I assumed you had sent an offer for a resource I no longer had, or something.

[Driderman]

I got one from you a turn ago that read as no longer valid. I assumed you had sent an offer for a resource I no longer had, or something.

That would coincide with the one I sent. As far as I'm aware, nothing changed on my end of the bargain. Hmm, I may have to look into this, maybe let my deals run out and see if that helps.

[Qwertystop]

Same sort of thing here.

[Driderman]

To France:

Spoiler

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We would very much appreciate if you did not abuse our newly forged friendship to remove artifacts of religious and cultural significance from our lands.

To spectators:

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Interesting turn of events, indeed. France got the WC seat as expected, but apparently Indonesia decided to switch from the Order ideology to Autocracy. I must admit, I didn't see that coming. I've been considering switching to Autocracy myself and this probably settles it. Once my tourism bonus from the World Games goes away, I likely won't even have a choice. Still, the 2 turns of anarchy (no production, science, income, faith, etc) is kinda scary. I guess alternately, I'll just suck up the -20-something happiness malus and keep going order (I still have a positive happiness of 20 or so).

[Mx.Silver]

Emperor Napoleon congratulates The Indonesian peoples on their successful change in government. Between this and our own leadership of the Council of Nations, we may yet be able to a secure a brighter future for all.

Spoiler: To Portugal

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You see, Maria? Order no longer controls the world congress. Your fears have not yet come to pass. Hopefully we can look forward to a more stable diplomatic environment now.

Spoiler: To The Shoshone

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Of course, I shall see to it personally that our over-eager academics are recalled from your lands.

Incidentally, sources in Poland tell me that should your people follow Indonesia's lead - there is a strong chance that Polish dissidents may spark an outright revolution, or at the very least step up their campaign of resistance. While you may have already learned this yourself, I felt it worth mentioning just in case. We live in interesting times, after all, and it pays to keep all relevant information in mind.

Spoiler: To the spectators

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I may not win this game, but I'm going to have fun with these last turns regardless.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The Portuguese nation recognises the legitimacy of the new Indonesian government and accepts the new status quo but is deeply worried that it may be fragile. We warn the Shoshone that should they ever upset this current ideological balance then the Portuguese people will not allow our freedoms to be undermined without a fight.

Portuguese Foreign Minister - 1946

edited due to prissy Shoshone being unable to read between the lines or do anything other than restate the same old tired nonsense.

Spoiler: to France

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All I see proof of right now is Poland's stupidity.

The Shoshone are still far away the most powerful force in the congress.

Is France committed to repealing the World religion or not?

Spoiler: to Poland

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The Indonesian situation is neither a defeat or a victory for us, but it does turn the tables of tourism towards autocracy. Indonesia was the no 2 tourism power and to a degree they were keeping the Shoshone stable, if the Shoshone also fail then you will just have thrown the world congress into the hands of an even greater threat.

I may fear your technology but I will not back down from a fight due to fear. Should you ever follow the Indonesian example and turn from the path of Freedom, in light of your continued efforts to work against us I will not be able to consider you a potential ally any longer.

You don't have any luxuries to offer me, I don't suppose you could identify the locations of the world's uranium as a gesture of good will instead?

[Driderman]

To Portugal:
Considering you are the only one with a history of abusing the World Congress to enforce embargoes on an entire nation who you then later conquered completely, and considering that the current situation of France having assumed the hosting of the World Congress was only possible due to the Shoshone delegates not supporting Indonesia, we find it curious that you would cast aspersions at us, Maria. By all means, keep playing the victim. I doubt the world will forget that it was you who almost cast the world into total war and it was you who obliterated the nation of Venice.

To Indonesia:
While we are saddened that you have decided to leave the tenets of Order behind, we have always respected Autocracy as an enlightened and realistic ideology and wish you the best of luck with it.

To France:

Spoiler

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While we are not interested in choosing Autocracy for ourselves just yet (damn those 2 turns of anarchy!) we have no qualms with furthering it's goals.
We would, however, hope that you would accept that Gaia Worship is the true religion and thus not waste your time attempting to repeal it, as this suits us well. It also provides Indonesia with additional delegates and could do that some for you, if you wished so. As an aside, it also provides us with a comfortable tourism buffer that allows us to let your ideology spread as it will and not consider the Polish suggestions of a "permanent solution to the Autocracy problem" to any serious degree.

It is the belief of the Shoshone Nation that we can forge a profitable and lasting partnership if we are prepared to assist each other in the World Congress. To further this, perhaps we should agree on our positions for the coming votes?

[Closet_Skeleton]

To the Shoshone

If you didn't want me to annex Venice you should have defended them yourself. You have no right to criticise me now. I may be the only nation to defend myself with force (not that that's a bad thing in my opinion) but you are the only nation who has demanded cities in return for selling out their allies. If you cared at all about aggression against anyone but yourself you would be praising my embargo of Venice which I only issued after I was subject to a dishonourable sneak attack.

Arguing about long past acts is pointless. The Portuguese nation will continue to be vigilant about possible future threats and do what it seems necessary to protect its people's freedom.

Edit:

Addendum: I apologise if you interpreted my message as an attack. The foreign minister responsible for the unclear previous message has been sacked. We merely mean that for the balance of power between ideologies to remain intact and for world peace it would be best if the Shoshone maintain their current course rather than unbalance things against Freedom. While we would be threatened and have to consider military action should autocracy gain unfair dominance on the flip side we will be very happy to do whatever we can to support the stability of the Shoshone state. In the unlikely event of the Shoshone being over-run by aggressive forces we would even consider intervening on your side if that would be in the best interest of the world order.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Portugal:

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Distressing news, the fall of Indonesia. Order is a better neighbor than the autocrats.

In terms of uranium, there are numerous deposits in the desolate polar isles, one next to Indonesia's capital, a deposit within my own territory, and three in your own, near Braga and Porto

[Closet_Skeleton]

The Presidential Retreat of Neuschwanstein was finished in the mountains south of Braga in 1948 despite repeated protests that it was taking up time that should have been spent building a research lab, embarrassingly putting what was in theory Portugal's primary academic city behind the otherwise backwards (due to centuries of Venetian occupation) Porto in scientific infrastructure. Confusingly, the completion of the castle led to a greater appreciation of medieval aristocratic fortifications in the forward looking freedom obsessed republic. Cynical commentators saw the supposed 'happiness' boosting castles as a mockery of French châteaus where the Portuguese could laugh at their backwards ideological rivals in a safe setting. Other more dogmatic devotees of freedom decried the whole thing as a sign of evil French influence encroaching on Portuguese society. Some merely took pride in the fact that although Portugal's castles were less of a hit with tourists and far less numerous than France's, at least Portugal had the biggest and highest up castle around.

- 1948 AD

1952 AD - Portuguese Star

The Venetian North Sea Company has completed its first oil rigs off the coast of Venice and Potosi. These may be the first off shore oil drilling platforms in the world, but the Star's reporters are not able to confirm this as the source of the oil other nations have been producing for a while is not entirely known outside of Poland and Sydney's derricks in the great southern desert.

Another rig near Almaty is currently planned with a work team on its way, but recent sights of pirates have put this project at risk.

The Brasilia company had planned the completion of its Brasilia to Rio de Janeiro railway, the first in the (at least the northern) new world for the same year, but embarrassingly an Indonesian Pikeman wandered into the way, forcing the workforce to temporally direct their efforts elsewhere.

Spoiler: to Shoshone

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Would you have any interest in a research agreement?

Spoiler: to France

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Would you have any interest in a research agreement?

Spoiler: to Poland

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I'll have some hotels in two turns. Hopefully that will solve some problems, but I'm not too optimistic of actually surpassing French tourism.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Portugal:

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Don't worry. If they manage to overwhelm the world, I promise you a space on the exit rocket.

[Mx.Silver]

Spoiler: To Portugal

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That seems reasonably, although I must confess the somewhat anti-French aspects of your recent rhetoric have made some of my researchers uneasy.

Spoiler: To The Shoshone

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What is it that you need to do in the anarchy phase, anyway? We may able to assist.


As to Votes - while neither proposal massive assists us, our hotel industry would be more damaged by Indonesia's proposal passing so there is some pressure amongst my advisors to oppose that.

[Driderman]

To Portugal:

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We'll get back to you on that as soon as we know how it fits with our current 10-year plan.

To France:

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You don't have to "do" anything in the Anarchy phase other than suffer through 2 turns of no gold, science, production or faith generation. Which I'm currently not that stoked on. I am tempted to switch later though, simply to see what happens if I build the Order-specific World Wonder when I change.
Regarding the currently proposed resolutions, none of them are of particular importance to the Shoshone, it was simply meant as a gesture if France had a strong opinion on either of them.

[Closet_Skeleton]

1954 AD, the Brasillia to Rio de Janeiro railway was finally completed, allowing a rush of immigrants and materials into the underpopulated interior of the New World.

Spoiler: to France

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Don't worry about the anti-French minority in both my population and my government, they don't represent our foreign policy and there are just as many pro-French rioters currently causing trouble. The moment the dissent dies down a bit the anti-French backlash should start to drop off as well.

Make sure you hang on to 240 odd gold and offer a deceleration of Friendship and I'll offer you a research agreement next turn.

Spoiler: to Shoshone

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Offer me a deceleration of friendship if you ever feel like it and I'll offer you a research agreement if you have the money.

Catching up with Poland's technology should be the number one priority for both our nations. Its much better for you if I don't sign an agreement with Poland which with his Porcelain Tower Wonder will be unfair and only give him even more of an advantage.

[Driderman]

In an attempt to fix my weird deal bug, I declared war on all the nations I'm trading resources with. Maybe clearing all my luxury trades will help. Ending the turn without sending any peace offers, but feel free to send one my way once your turn is up. This is not meant as a declaration of war, simply an attempt to fix a bug.

[Silverraptor]

In an attempt to fix my weird deal bug, I declared war on all the nations I'm trading resources with. Maybe clearing all my luxury trades will help. Ending the turn without sending any peace offers, but feel free to send one my way once your turn is up. This is not meant as a declaration of war, simply an attempt to fix a bug.

Clearly this is a situation where everyone should enact fall scale war against the Shoshone.

(I'm kidding.)

[Closet_Skeleton]

Maria's Portuguese Haiku Diary - 1960 AD

Just obtained Hotels
Somehow did not even need to
Trade in four houses

Spoiler: to spectators

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Its time to vote on repealing cultural heritage sights (extra culture for world wonders) and word's fair.

Shoshone are ahead on production so can in theory win the world's fair, but I just got a great artist from a Aesthetics policy and can spend him for a golden age and possibly get my production up.

Lost 2 trade routes and tons of happiness due to the Shoshone stunt (they're also stealing all my city state allies with coups), but I spot one of his merchant convoys near one of my iron clads so I burnt in down and bought a hotel in Braga with the money. I now have the highest base tourism but France's aesthetics policy gives him a big multiplier that's keeping him ahead, which will last until I get the same policy in either 9 turns or from the Worlds' fair.

Clearly this is a situation where everyone should enact fall scale war against the Shoshone.

(I'm kidding.)

I'd love to do so and steal all their archaeological sites while I'm at it but I've conquered enough territory recently that I can't get away with it.

I'd offer, in the spirit of freedom and democracy, to allow spectators to vote on whether or not I go to war, but that would probably lead to issues, and people screwing me over. Don't want to delay turns on the chance someone will come across this thread and decide to vote.

[Qwertystop]

I've still been having problems with trades too - at least I think so. Not sure. I got an offer for a Research Agreement that was no longer valid when I hit accept, but that might just have been lack of money caused by other trades between their turn and mine. I also got my trade offer returned, ignored (not modified as far as I could tell), and thus cancelled it to be able to make a different trade, but that could be lack-of-manners rather than a glitch.

(If you get a deal and don't want it, please just deny it. Also, if you modify, please say so here? It's easy to forget the exact amount of gold you've offered when there's a turn a day at best.)

[Driderman]

Maria's Portuguese Haiku Diary - 1960 AD

Just obtained Hotels
Somehow did not even need to
Trade in four houses

I'd love to do so and steal all their archaeological sites while I'm at it but I've conquered enough territory recently that I can't get away with it.

I'd offer, in the spirit of freedom and democracy, to allow spectators to vote on whether or not I go to war, but that would probably lead to issues, and people screwing me over. Don't want to delay turns on the chance someone will come across this thread and decide to vote.

Going to war over me trying to fix a bug that prevents me from trading would certainly not be very sportsmanlike. Hopefully you read my above post and/or the message I sent you on Steam before doing anything rash this turn. I'm of course willing to re-enter all deals I had prior to the declarations if possible, I'd just really rather not be unable to trade with anyone for the rest of the game so it's rather important to me to try and fix this issue.