Personal Woes and Advice 3

[rogueboy]

Let me ask you guys something:do you think this equivalent to drugging a person?

I could make arguments about how this technically isn't equivalent to drugging a person, but they're ENTIRELY based on the fact that it IS drugging a person, and something can't technically be equivalent to itself.

To reiterate: this isn't an equivalency question, he is drugging the person.

A friend just recently told me he sometimes 'spikes' drinks with herbal supplements like ginseng, shatavari, and some other crap either before or during a date to increase his likelihood of sleeping with the person.

The fact that he's using things that have absolutely no effect beyond a placebo isn't entirely relevant here. He's not only trying to drug them (without going to the illegal things like rohypnol), he's not even trying to be discrete about it. He's explicitly telling you that he's trying to rape people (he may not see it that way, but the legalities and typical morality say that's what he's doing).

For obvious reasons I lost about a million points of respect for this person. My morality obviously finds it very wrong but at the same time I find myself saying 'oh its not THAT bad'

It IS that bad. Again: he's admitting to attempted rape, even if he isn't using those words.

Either way I am treating this as a "nunamabusiness" topic and avoiding the person.

What would you guys do?

At a bare minimum? Kick him out of my life, and tell people close to him so they can deal with him, because eventually he'll decide to "up his game," either by switching to drugs that actually do something or by adding physicality to his approach, and both will end terribly for someone. As to how I'd deal with it if I didn't want to pawn him off on someone else... I'm not entirely sure, but I'd certainly consider talking to a crisis clinic if not the police, because his is an INCREDIBLY dangerous problem.

This is going to sound stupid but i'll say this: get outside. Start implementing an exercise routine for yourself. The ridiculous amounts of endorphins and other fun stuff released during and after will have you feeling like a confident fox.

---edit

I see you're doing soccer and complain about your knees. Try an hour of cardio on the elliptical. Push yourself and really feel it.

Yeah, the knees are mostly the fact that I didn't play for about 6 months (moving, then had to find a group to play with) and they're still getting used to the impact again. But getting outside on a daily basis is definitely something I'm doing (I notice the difference instantly if I go a day without being outside), although I don't have the time I'd really like to be able to do exercise very often.

I know the science behind exercise (I'm a chemist currently taking biology classes who REALLY enjoys that type of thing), but it doesn't do as much for me as I'd expect based upon that research. I play soccer once a week, and it tends to be far more effective in relieving stress than actually leaving me happy. The routine for the past few weeks (I've only played 3-4 times since 6 months of 0) has been to play soccer, than play D&D for the afternoon/evening, and I've still wound up feeling sore and down at the end of the day

[Chen]

The fact that he's using things that have absolutely no effect beyond a placebo isn't entirely relevant here. He's not only trying to drug them (without going to the illegal things like rohypnol), he's not even trying to be discrete about it. He's explicitly telling you that he's trying to rape people (he may not see it that way, but the legalities and typical morality say that's what he's doing).

It IS that bad. Again: he's admitting to attempted rape, even if he isn't using those words.

To be fair, giving people alcohol at all (in that context) meets that definition of trying to rape people.

[Mono Vertigo]

To be fair, giving people alcohol at all (in that context) meets that definition of trying to rape people.

Thing is, when you propose alcohol to people, they expect alcohol, and have the choice to accept or refuse in full knowledge of the situation. It's not deceptive. It hardly counts as trying to rape someone, particularly if you just hope the other person will consent to sex thanks to the disinhibiting properties of alcohol (keyword here being consent; it's a whole other matter if you push someone to drink in excess).
When you spike the drink and do not say what you put in it, the other person still only expects alcohol, and if they accept expecting alcohol, they might be in for a bad time.
Junglesteve, I agree with everyone else. Just because the method is probably very ineffectual doesn't make the deed or the intent any better. He must knock it off.

[Chen]

Thing is, when you propose alcohol to people, they expect alcohol, and have the choice to accept or refuse in full knowledge of the situation. It's not deceptive. It hardly counts as trying to rape someone, particularly if you just hope the other person will consent to sex thanks to the disinhibiting properties of alcohol (keyword here being consent; it's a whole other matter if you push someone to drink in excess).
When you spike the drink and do not say what you put in it, the other person still only expects alcohol, and if they accept expecting alcohol, they might be in for a bad time.
Junglesteve, I agree with everyone else. Just because the method is probably very ineffectual doesn't make the deed or the intent any better. He must knock it off.

Its an extremely fine line between enough alcohol that you can still consent to too much where you consent is no longer "informed". In principle using alcohol even to lower inhibitions can still be considered manipulative.

I'll grant of course putting things into someone's drink is clearly worse. And I do agree that even though in the situation here I can't imagine any actual effect, its still reprehensible behavior.

[rogueboy]

To be fair, giving people alcohol at all (in that context) meets that definition of trying to rape people.

Yes and no. I agree that getting someone drunk (with the intentions involved in this situation) could and should be seen as attempted rape. However, giving someone a drink (particularly if we're including beer or weaker drinks) by itself wouldn't be. I'm going on the assumption that, in general, people a) know how much they can drink without getting drunk, and b) have the ability to say no to the drink itself or to stop drinking it when they've had "too much" (whatever that level may be).

However, I was not intending to say that alcohol was in a different category than the various date-rape drugs, just that the drugging is a FAR more clear-cut situation than the alcohol is.

[Ravens_cry]

How do you define 'drunk'? I get giddy on one beer on an empty stomach. It doesn't last long, about half an hour-hour but I know my own mind well enough to know I feel it. I would consider that a chemical influence, though a relatively subtle one. It's not an aphrodisiac per sae, but it's enough that I am more likely to go along with something stupid.

[rogueboy]

How do you define 'drunk'? I get giddy on one beer on an empty stomach. It doesn't last long, about half an hour-hour but I know my own mind well enough to know I feel it. I would consider that a chemical influence, though a relatively subtle one. It's not an aphrodisiac per sae, but it's enough that I am more likely to go along with something stupid.

I'd argue there isn't a specific "number" you can put on being drunk. The best I can put up for consideration is this: if you've had enough to drink that you aren't able to make a considered decision, you're drunk. If you can still make decisions clearly and rationally, you're not. Obviously, that point is MASSIVELY different for each of us, and can't really be generalized by a number of drinks, type of drink, or anything else we typically think of.

[Serpentine]

I just wussed out of talking to my doctor about my Moods and how I feel like I never really properly got out of my last one, and that I'm worried about my mental health in general.
Those moles are benign, that lump's probably a harmless gangleon, and got a referral to get my ears checked, but my brain? 'Sfuccaciaed yo; everything's my own fault anyway and I more or less know already what to do about it (get a job, study hard, meet more people, stop being thin skinned, stop being jealous, stop expecting too much of people, stop being weird, stop being clingy, get over it, get on with it); they'd probably give me drugs, they'd probably mostly work through the placebo effect, and I'd feel bad for using them "wrong" because I wouldn't accompany them with counseling because I have a block when it comes to talking properly to anyone outside of throwing snippets into the aether of the Internet.

[Astrella]

I'd be careful about saying that everything is just your own fault, that's something that I used to do (and still do disturbingly often) with regards to my anxiety issues, and that's only done me harm.

Talking about it isn't easy, but it would probably still be beneficial to talk about it with a professional, you never know if they might be able to pick up on something, in particular cause we can be pretty biased about our own issues and might not always see things clearly.

And counseling in general might be helpful to get rid of that mental block too, I still struggle with it myself, but I've definitely gotten better at being open about things.

[Sholos]

I was coping. I was doing fine. I havent hurt myself in a couple days. People told me my hair was pretty today. Then my mom yelled at me and told me I need to drop out of college and not medically transition from male to female because I'm a failure and a disappointment. I'm struggling to find reasons not to just kill myself at this point.

Because from what I've seen here you're a pretty awesome person. Also apparently you have pretty hair. Sometimes parents aren't the ones to listen to and that's when you go to friends.

[WarKitty]

So I have a bit of an issue. I'm realizing that I need the extra 3 weeks between the end of this semester and the beginning of the next to catch up on some work. This means I really need to stay here and not go see my parents. The trouble is going to be convincing them of that. Here's the problems:

The real reason I can't go home is because dealing with my mother is massively stressful. And she seems utterly impervious to this. She criticizes and attacks me constantly and can be quite mean in doing so. But she seems utterly oblivious to her own behavior.

Now, I don't want to start a fight and another storm of hysterics. My parents always assure me, I can rest and relax at home, they'll leave me to work. I know perfectly well this isn't going to happen - in large part because they don't see the stress of wondering when I'm going to get jumped on.

What I need is a polite, reasonable way of saying I'm not coming home. One that is clear that I need to stay here so I can focus, without seeming to put the blame on them (and thus starting a firestorm that would end up with the same stress level).

[Cobra_Ikari]

So I have a bit of an issue. I'm realizing that I need the extra 3 weeks between the end of this semester and the beginning of the next to catch up on some work. This means I really need to stay here and not go see my parents. The trouble is going to be convincing them of that. Here's the problems:

The real reason I can't go home is because dealing with my mother is massively stressful. And she seems utterly impervious to this. She criticizes and attacks me constantly and can be quite mean in doing so. But she seems utterly oblivious to her own behavior.

Now, I don't want to start a fight and another storm of hysterics. My parents always assure me, I can rest and relax at home, they'll leave me to work. I know perfectly well this isn't going to happen - in large part because they don't see the stress of wondering when I'm going to get jumped on.

What I need is a polite, reasonable way of saying I'm not coming home. One that is clear that I need to stay here so I can focus, without seeming to put the blame on them (and thus starting a firestorm that would end up with the same stress level).

Not sure I have an answer for that. Been looking for it myself. Coming back home for Thanksgiving was...a nightmare I don't want to repeat in 3 weeks.

*hugs tight*...how truthful do you want to be?

[Castaras]

You're doing a post-grad course, right? Say that you need to remain at your college over the three weeks to have access to the academic resources you need there?

[WarKitty]

You're doing a post-grad course, right? Say that you need to remain at your college over the three weeks to have access to the academic resources you need there?

The trouble is there's really no academic resources that I'd need to be there for, that I can even plausibly think up.

[Moriwen]

What I need is a polite, reasonable way of saying I'm not coming home. One that is clear that I need to stay here so I can focus, without seeming to put the blame on them (and thus starting a firestorm that would end up with the same stress level).

Would it fly to just say that you really need to be in your own place to concentrate? You can be very self-deprecating about it -- you'd love to come see them, but you just really need to buckle down and get some stuff done, and you just know you'll get distracted if there's people around. Especially people you're just longing to spend some time with, y'know.

Hope it works out. Family is hard.

[Mx.Silver]

You know what the 'best' part about acute insomnia is? It's the knowledge that not only have you wasted the last 7 hours you spent futilely trying to sleep but by doing so you've now also screwed-up the next 12-24 hours too. So you can look forward to a reall fun day ahead


I hate my brain sometimes, I really do.

[dehro]

@warkitty... how about somebody has offered to tutor/help out/get you something you need.. but to take the advantage you have to stay where you are?

[Lycunadari]

I don't like having secrets, especially secrets I'm keeping from my parents. "Good" secrets, like birthday presents, are okay, because I know that I can disclose them at a fixed day, so they are almost nice to have, just because the expectation is nice. Secrets I can disclose some day are also still okay, though I usually tell them earlier rather than later (I'm talking about my secrets, obviously. I would never tell someone a secret of someone else.)

But now I have a secret I can't tell, and never will. Not to my family at last, and to no one who as any contact to my family or where there is only the smallest chance that they will tell someone in my family. Because if someone finds out about it, and can't keep it secret, that will break my family apart and I wont let that happen.
I have this ... knowledge for about a year now, and I thought I was doing just fine, but now a worried question from my second boss brought back memories and I can't get them to shut up again. But I need to stop thinking about it because the more I think about it, the worse this secret gets and I don't know if I can handle that. I already lay awake half of the night and nearly started crying twice today because of that.

I don't know what I'm asking for, I just needed to get this out. Though I already feel like that post is already giving away too much.

[Mono Vertigo]

Hey, Juniper.
I don't know what the nature of that secret is, but if it involves a relative doing bad things, you need to know that what they did, untold or not, already broke the family apart. You revealing that would be irrelevant. If your loved ones are ready to turn their back on a relative in distress because they preferred ignoring the truth, they they're the ones who shatter the family. Not you.
In any case, that sounds heavy. My PM box is open if you wish. You might also consider seeing a therapist who might counsel you better.
Hang on.

[Kalmageddon]

Hey, Juniper.
I don't know what the nature of that secret is, but if it involves a relative doing bad things, you need to know that what they did, untold or not, already broke the family apart. You revealing that would be irrelevant. If your loved ones are ready to turn their back on a relative in distress because they preferred ignoring the truth, they they're the ones who shatter the family. Not you.
In any case, that sounds heavy. My PM box is open if you wish. You might also consider seeing a therapist who might counsel you better.
Hang on.

I agree with this.
I wish you luck in resolving this unplesant situation.

[The Succubus]

Hey, Juniper.
I don't know what the nature of that secret is, but if it involves a relative doing bad things, you need to know that what they did, untold or not, already broke the family apart. You revealing that would be irrelevant. If your loved ones are ready to turn their back on a relative in distress because they preferred ignoring the truth, they they're the ones who shatter the family. Not you.
In any case, that sounds heavy. My PM box is open if you wish. You might also consider seeing a therapist who might counsel you better.
Hang on.

I don't know if I'll be able to offer any advice but I can listen if you wish.

[dehro]

I think much depends on the nature of the secret and of the character, inclinations and strength of the people involved.
things for which you are a better judge than any of us.
do consider however that people have hidden depths of strength and occasionally, bringing a problem out in the open can be a way to solve it in the long run, though it may take years to be put away.
no, this is by no means a given.
that said.. if the secret is yours and concerns you, then only you can decide what to do about it. if it concerns another member of your family, then it really isn't a secret anymore. there's at least one other person you can address about it (possibly more if it involves third parties), the person that the secret is about.
depending on the nature of the secret, this could land you in ugly positions of accomplice (and by keeping the secret you are at least in part already an accomplice) or whistle-blower, but it may also be a manner for you to convince that other person to come clean, open up or otherwise find a solution to the issue that is shrouded in the veil of secrecy.
that is of course as long as it's something that has to do with behaviours that don't endanger the health of individuals or fall in the realm of illegality...in which case, do look for outside help.
If it's nothing illegal or dangerous, but rather a matter of broken trusts, devastated feelings and suchlike.. then it really is up to you to confront the person involved or decide not to.

[Lycunadari]

The secret concerns something that someone did several years ago, when I was 7 years old or something, and I realised only last year what that something actually was.
I don't know if the person even remembers it, and my own memories are only vague, though I fear that more memories might come back, I didn't remember it at all until last year.
I have forgiven the person what they did, and I thought I wasn't all that affected by it (though the last night makes me fear it affected me more than I previously thought) and I love them and don't want my family to think bad of them – I'm not worried about my family turning on me, I'm worried about my family turning on them, especially because their relationship to my family is already strained due to completely unrelated issues.

I wish I could just forget all that happened.

[WarKitty]

Spoiling for triggers:

Spoiler

Show

I've been doing a group therapy session thing, talking about abuse and trauma. Tonight we were talking about control stuff - basically, how people tend to think they're in control and thus that the abuse was their fault.

Now, I've been a feminist for several years. I've known the "not my fault" for what, 4 years now? And yet...when I heard the blaming phrases repeated, even in a safe context...somehow everything just came back. And it shocked me. It shocked me that my reaction was to basically curl up and try to be as unexposed as possible.

Like some part of me still believes, maybe, that enough cloth would have stopped what happened. Even though I know better.

No hugs right now, please, but any kind words/tea/cookies/reassurances I'm not crazy would help.

[Cobra_Ikari]

Spoiling for triggers:

Spoiler

Show

I've been doing a group therapy session thing, talking about abuse and trauma. Tonight we were talking about control stuff - basically, how people tend to think they're in control and thus that the abuse was their fault.

Now, I've been a feminist for several years. I've known the "not my fault" for what, 4 years now? And yet...when I heard the blaming phrases repeated, even in a safe context...somehow everything just came back. And it shocked me. It shocked me that my reaction was to basically curl up and try to be as unexposed as possible.

Like some part of me still believes, maybe, that enough cloth would have stopped what happened. Even though I know better.

No hugs right now, please, but any kind words/tea/cookies/reassurances I'm not crazy would help.

*offers slice of cake/pie, cup of tea/coffee/chocolate/eggnog/something stronger*

Not crazy. Am...sorry that...mmm. That you had to go through that, and then...relive it. Mmm...*offers small pillow*...I totally hug the hell out of/crush/scream/cry into these when I get...corner-bally, dunno if that would help you at all. *sits nearby, tries to radiate...supportive...feelings, because...yeah*

[Haluesen]

Spoiling for triggers:

Spoiler

Show

I've been doing a group therapy session thing, talking about abuse and trauma. Tonight we were talking about control stuff - basically, how people tend to think they're in control and thus that the abuse was their fault.

Now, I've been a feminist for several years. I've known the "not my fault" for what, 4 years now? And yet...when I heard the blaming phrases repeated, even in a safe context...somehow everything just came back. And it shocked me. It shocked me that my reaction was to basically curl up and try to be as unexposed as possible.

Like some part of me still believes, maybe, that enough cloth would have stopped what happened. Even though I know better.

No hugs right now, please, but any kind words/tea/cookies/reassurances I'm not crazy would help.

Spoiler

Show

You are absolutely not crazy. It isn't wrong to want to hide when you have something bad or scary going through your mind. I second Cobra's idea, smush that pillow until it is all squished up. And again, you are not crazy. You are good and nothing is wrong with how you feel and I very much hope that any of this is of any consolation. I will not give the dread hugs, and others usually handle the cookies and such, but I can offer nice warm soup of comfort if need be.

[Lycunadari]

I think I will talk to my therapist about it on Monday, but I'm so afraid. Afraid that she'll ask why I haven't said anything earlier (as that might have helped with my other issues?), afraid that talking about it will make it even worse afraid that she is not qualified to deal with that and I need to find another therapist and have to explain to my family why, afraid that after I talked to one person, I wont be able to still keep that secret form everyone else. I want so badly to talk to someone I trust – my sister, my mother, my second boss – but I don't dare to. I just want someone to tell me that everything's going to be okay and I don't have to be afraid. I want someone to help me without blaming and hating the other person because they are not a horrible person, they just did something bad (though it wasn't that bad for me at the time, but everyone will think it was), but everyone hates persons who do bad things and I understand that but I can't let my own family hate this person because I love them and I want my family to be okay.

[The Succubus]

Juniper, take a deep breath for a moment and then slowly and gently let it out.

First of all - your therapist is duty bound to keep any confidential information you tell them. If it is something very serious, then they will talk through your options and feelings on it. What happens next will be your choice entirely. If it's something that needs to involve other people, then your therapist will only do so at your explicit consent.

Secondly, there's a very, very good chance your therapist will have worked with someone else in a similar position to you. If they do need to talk to someone else, your name and personal details will not be used in the discussion - it will be "hypothetical". The only way therapy works is when the patient and therapist trust each other and your therapist will do everything they can to honor that trust.

[ArlEammon]

Spoiling for triggers:

Spoiler

Show

I've been doing a group therapy session thing, talking about abuse and trauma. Tonight we were talking about control stuff - basically, how people tend to think they're in control and thus that the abuse was their fault.

Now, I've been a feminist for several years. I've known the "not my fault" for what, 4 years now? And yet...when I heard the blaming phrases repeated, even in a safe context...somehow everything just came back. And it shocked me. It shocked me that my reaction was to basically curl up and try to be as unexposed as possible.

Like some part of me still believes, maybe, that enough cloth would have stopped what happened. Even though I know better.

No hugs right now, please, but any kind words/tea/cookies/reassurances I'm not crazy would help.

Warkitty, I'm so sorry. :(
I want you to live a good, happy life forever now.

[QueerKitty]

Welp, my mom disowned me and I'm back to cutting. yay.