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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default In Defense of Ansom

    Hello all,

    I've seen some Prince Ansom hating going on out there in the forum, and I just have to ask . . . why? He seems like a very decent guy, a good tactician, and an excellent diplomat. I've seen complaints that he is "arrogant," but I don't quite know where that's coming from. He's clearly in command of the army, so his job is to give orders. A commander giving orders is not necessarily "arrogant;" it's what he does!

    As far as arrogance goes, he's not prideful enough (unlike Lord Stanley) to insist on his own way when Jillian confronts him with a better argument for her plan of action (her scouting on the Gwiffon) than he had for his (her staying home). They had a confrontation over it and he backed down. This is not something an arrogant commander does. And Prince Ansom backed down despite the fact that he clearly desperately cares for Jillian and does not want to see her get killed . . . er, croaked by one of Stanley's dwagons.

    I found his "tent" offer to Jillian to be very gentlemanly and not at all out of bounds. He did not force himself on her, threaten her with punishments if she didn't visit him, or entreat her with blandishments. He simply informed her (in a low-key way) that she was invited to his tent. This is yet another argument why Prince Ansom should not be considered arrogant: he stepped out and let her know how he felt while giving her the time and space to make up her own mind about what she wanted to do. He left himself open to rejection, and rejection is what he got.

    But DESPITE the fact that Jillian rejected his offer and did not visit his tent (late-night indecision notwithstanding), he is STILL very concerned about her well-being and wants to ensure that she is safe. Far from punishing her or sulking about, nursing his wounded pride, Ansom is right there in the morning insisting that she take a protective item and probably (given his dialogue) still worrying that she will be croaked by a dwagon. Sure, Jillian (as a proud Barbarian probably (although unjustifiably) somewhat insecure about being taken seriously in a military context as a female) views Ansom's gift of an abjuration item and admonishments to avoid engagement as a lack of trust, annoyingly patronization, and/or overprotection, but that doesn't negate the fact that Ansom is acting out of his deep concern for her well-being.

    So, I think Ansom is a good guy and Jillian is lucky to have him looking out for her. Take your best shot, Ansom haters.
    Last edited by Machiara; 2006-12-19 at 08:38 PM.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Heh, and people say we aren't developing the characters well enough.

    Excellent post!
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Meh. I just don't like the wholesale ebodiment of 'General Pretty Boy' that goes into both his physical features and his constant bloody planning.

    Then again, I don't like people like that anyway. Or people who physically embody the role of 'pretty boy'.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    The thing about Prince Ansom is Jillian never said no to his making advances. (Anyway, these boards seem more civilized then the main.)

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Something tells me people would like him a lot more of he had hideous warts all over his face and an eyepatch. He seems like a decent guy, but overly protective (of some people, at least).

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Not to mention that he has good reason to be worried about her. She appears to have a habit of getting in "over her head", when dealing with the enemy. She may be good at what she does, but she is over confident, and not very wise... I wouldn't call him overly protective, I would just call him realistic.

    I agree that people would probably like him more if he had warts all over his face. They would feel sorry for him when Jillian turns him down. Just look at that sad face he has in page 7, panel 6. Poor guy.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    He has a very sterotypical blond prince appearence. However I'm not going to write him off at only 10 comics. You gotta give main characters some time to show who they really are.
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Quote Originally Posted by Moechi_Vill View Post
    (Anyway, these boards seem more civilized then the main.)
    Wait, what?

    Are people judging Ansom by his appearance? That doesn't really seem fair.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    It's ironic that people are judging Prince Ansom (Prince Handsome) by his appearance, when one of the jokes of this comic is that Lord Stanley was foolish to select his warlords based purely on how they looked.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    People on these boards generally have a negative attitude toward "paladin" type characters. I'm not saying that Prince Ansom is a paladin (heck, there probably isn't even a "paladin" archetype in Erfworld), but still, for whatever reason, people (here) seem to hate the proverbial "good guy."

    Not sure why.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Tried playing a paladin recently in a D&D game? It's tough to get people to take you seriously . I think modern action/adventure culture simply has a fascination with the "rogue." Preference for Han Solo over Luke, loving it when Captain Jack Sparrow shows up the Naval Captain, Aragorn the grimy ranger being better than Boromir the clean-cut Gondorian General . . . people like the rogue, the scoundrel, the underdog. It's also just easy to bash the "follow orders pretty-boy."

    I think the dislike of Ansom is actually kinda the fault of the Cast Page; it paints him as a pretty-boy buffoon, really. Then in the comics he seems entirely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duraska View Post
    People on these boards generally have a negative attitude toward "paladin" type characters. I'm not saying that Prince Ansom is a paladin (heck, there probably isn't even a "paladin" archetype in Erfworld), but still, for whatever reason, people (here) seem to hate the proverbial "good guy."

    Not sure why.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    I don't agree that the cast page describes Anson as a "pretty boy buffoon". According to the cast page, Anson's strengths are Leadership, Planning, and Coalition Building. His weaknesses are Caution, Humility and the Ability to seal the Deal. What does that mean?

    I think it means that while he is a genuinely talented leader, planner and diplomat, he unfortunately doesn't have a good idea about where the limits of his abilities lie. In other words, he can usually handle the problems he faces, but won't immediately recognise that he's in trouble, if he's confronted with a problem he is not prepared to handle.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    His weaknesses are Caution, Humility and the Ability to seal the Deal. What does that mean?
    It means he can't get Jillian into bed.
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    As much as it seems he is coming onto her (and let's face it, he almost definitely is), he's being a gentleman about it, and respecting her boundaries (enough). I happen to like his character so far.

    That might change, though.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    I don't agree that the cast page describes Anson as a "pretty boy buffoon". According to the cast page, Anson's strengths are Leadership, Planning, and Coalition Building. His weaknesses are Caution, Humility and the Ability to seal the Deal.
    Right you are. Huh. And yet I was sure that it was derogatory. I guess I fell victim to the same assignment of false character traits that everyone else did. I think we just think he's a chump because his cast picture has him drawn that way . I definitely like him more than I expected to.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Let's see if I can make an anti-Ansom post....

    Looking at comparable examples given, the Knights in Shining Armor just aren't anymore. They're more like Knights in Shiny Armor, a description which fits Ansom to a tee. None of the paladin-type characters in "modern action/adventure culture" are paladin-type characters. (There are a few exceptions, always.) At best, they're speedbumps for the real heroes in the stories. In that sense, Ansom fits in perfectly. He's constantly cramping Jillian's style (which is a blunt way of saying he's preventing her from getting Zerged) and behaving in a typically cloying manner. Thus, the sense is that he's a speedbump for Jillian; a speedbump that provides plenty of fire support, sure, but a speedbump nonetheless. His fault is that he's trying to be something more than a speedbump, and, until the story actually establishes that he's more than a speedbump, he will be seen as a character who's attempting to exceed his boundaries.

    If one were to take the RTS comparison.... He's a stereotypically grubby, micro-managing RTS-player constantly trying to keep his hero units from getting themselves killed (as they are wont to do). He is good by default, but not naturally heroic. Which would, in any other circumstance, make him a very expendable NPC, not a main character.
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Hey, Demented, please stop throwing around a metaphor that does not make sense, and use sensible terms. Otherwise, I really don't even see an opinion in there.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiara View Post
    So, I think Ansom is a good guy and Jillian is lucky to have him looking out for her. Take your best shot, Ansom haters.
    Exactly. But it's so easy to hate the "knight in shining armor" or "handsome prince" archetype. He's the two rolled up into one. He's like a massive hate magnet.

    He seems like a decent guy to me and he genuinely cares about Jillian. He seems like he'd be willing to sacrifice victory to save her. It wouldn't surprise me if he did once which wounded Jillian's pride to the point where she is now.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Quote Originally Posted by Brickwall View Post
    Hey, Demented, please stop throwing around a metaphor that does not make sense, and use sensible terms. Otherwise, I really don't even see an opinion in there.
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    It's not so much the good-guy role that's annoying, but the fact that his role is that of the proverbial King telling the main characters to go on a quest... but the King is tagging along.
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    He's also helping them, attempting to guide them along their quest, and actually trying to minimize danger. Remember that speedbumps were designed to protect people, and so that kind of validates your metaphor.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Yeah, but do you like when they install speed bumps in roads and parking lots? I'm perfectly capable of not driving like a moron without them, so why should anyone bother putting them in? That's the thing. People don't like being safeguarded when they think they are perfectly capable on their own. Hence the love of scoundrel characters. They do what they want without bothering to listen to authority and always end up ok. It's something people wish they could do.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    People seem to dislike characters who are too "perfect", and Prince Ansom is just that - too perfect. A gentleman, good tactician, (apparently) very handsome, on the top of the command chain and without having any major flaw; at least none shown so far. Reasons on why human beings act in such a way can vary, and I won't discuss them here (although I'm sure several ones would make me theoretically VERY unliked in the anti-Ansom part of the forum's community ).

    I personally like him. Reminds me of Edgar from FF VI.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    He's a sissy general!

    Someone mentioned earlier that he seems like he would be willing to give up an advantage to keep Jillian safe. That's good for Jillian's safety, but it likely wouldn't be so good for the war effort and it's certainly not good for someone in a situation where more than a few people depend on him.

    For some reason, that seems to mix rather paradoxically with his having "caution" as a weakness. 'Course, it could just be that his weaknesses are reversed when dealing with Jillian. (Is Jillian "Ansom Kryptonite", then?) Once Jillian's out of the picture, he can be the regular a**-kicking hero everyone adores. (If a**-kicking is a fault, I don't want to be flawless!)

    Fortunately for him, Stanley is grossly incompetent.
    That, and he has the force of Peep Gwiffons on his side.
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffer View Post
    Yeah, but do you like when they install speed bumps in roads and parking lots? I'm perfectly capable of not driving like a moron without them, so why should anyone bother putting them in? That's the thing. People don't like being safeguarded when they think they are perfectly capable on their own.
    A couple of points:

    You may be capable of driving properly without speedbumps, but a disturbingly large number of people do drive like idiots whenever given the chance

    I don't think of the speedbump as a method to help me drive properly, I see it as a method to protect me from the other stupid drivers out there.

    Considering the number of pedestrians that get hit by stupid drivers... I am sure it would be far worse without speedbumps.

    So.... to answer your question
    so why should anyone bother putting them in?
    Why? Because I like to walk through parking lots without fear of being run over by an idiot.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Allow me to register my agreement with the original poster. An excellent defense of Ansom! Like all the characters in Erfworld, he has weaknesses - but, unlike all of the others, he seems thoughtful, clever, and well-intentioned. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the various characters develop. :)
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Note: This post is not directed toward any of the posters here. I'm talking about "humanity" in the general sense.

    It really just boils down to jealousy.

    I think all of us want to see ourselves as the archetypal "good guy." The problem is, choosiing the good path through life is hard. It takes a LOT of hardwork, you have to always be testing yourself and giving 100% effort to every little detail in your life. It takes discipline and determination and above all else, complete selfessness.

    Unfortunately we often fail at it, and when we fail it's much easier to blame others instead of blaming ourselves. It's much easier to resent those who are able to do what we're not. By making them the enemy we can elevate our own self into being the "good guy," faults and all.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    I hate paladin in general but I like Ansom, he doesnt sound like a knight in shiny armor for me. I usually hate paladin because they got no feeling and act only with the lawfull aspect of their lawfull good (Miko is the best example out there). But Ansom obviously got feeling and hes just trying to do whats best for is troops while protecting a girl he seems to love. I think the main reason why people dont like him is because the first time I saw him I just thought : «Is that Zapp Brannigan?» Everyone who watch Futurama hate him because he look exactly like Zapp!
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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Aww, but I loved Zap Brannigan!

    His episodes were the best Futurama episodes.

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    I don't agree that the cast page describes Anson as a "pretty boy buffoon". According to the cast page, Anson's strengths are Leadership, Planning, and Coalition Building. His weaknesses are Caution, Humility and the Ability to seal the Deal. What does that mean?
    The first two are self-evident -- he's brash and overconfident. The last one, I gather, is inability to seal the deal of persuading Jillian to unseal her armor (both metaphorically and literally).

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    Default Re: In Defense of Ansom

    Ansom will send his army somewhere where they will suffer tactical elimination then fail to seal the deal with someone on the bad side (or someone else).

    I like Ansom.


    Seal the deal of literally bagging Jillian? C'mon, she was never at the negotiating table to begin with! They didn't have a deal to seal. I would say he abuses his position of being her employer to hit on her but she doesn't seem to mind it, hey, she considered it after he went to bed.
    Last edited by Moechi_Vill; 2006-12-24 at 10:55 AM.

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