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    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Since the conversation had degraded on the other thread to "What should we name the new thread", I figured now was as good a time as any to start a new one. As always, feel free to post anything related to Star Wars Saga edition in here.

    Since Hyena started the last one out with some useful links, I thought it might be good to bring those over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyena View Post
    I've noticed there is no SWSE discussion thread on this forum, yet SWSE seems to be rather popular. I felt oblieged to correct this outrageous mistake.

    List of links you might find useful:
    List of every single feat provided with the number of the page.
    Same for talents
    Bonus feats for every class
    Good luck, and may the Force be with you.
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2013-09-05 at 05:20 PM.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Since the conversation had degraded on the other thread to "What should we name the new thread", I figured now was as good a time as any to start a new one.
    But we hadn't finished deciding!
    (...And I think six posts is a little soon to call it a derailment.)
    (...And every thread does that.)

    Anyways, on-topic... Uh.... something about Han Solo being really good at card games.
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    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    That last bit about Han Solo was finished. We had just said that all the movie character stats suck, as Han and Lando would have to take the Gambler Talent. However, the Gambler talent is good, because of yadda-yadda, 400,000 credits, yadd-yadda, Millennium Falcon, yadda-yadda, won a planet in a card game.

    That about sums that bit up, leaving this open for a new question for a new movie thread
    Last edited by kreenlover; 2013-09-05 at 07:05 PM.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    I suppose I could start this one off with an announcement that I've been preparing a Sunday night game using Star Wars: Saga to play in the Wheel of Time world.

    Its been a strange time getting a conversion together. Ive never before noticed just how many fiddly little things are different in Saga from 3.5 (where I tried to get much of the medieval/fantasy stuff from).

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Oh, my party DID get the stunning lightsaber away from the Trandoshan force user. They were so battered (seriously; the only two up were Princess Captain Kaylee and the Dr. Michaela Simona Quinntam... actually their names) that, having knocked the Trandoshan to 0 HP, they kicked him out of the ship, grabbed his lightsaber, and took off.

    I so look forward to reintroducing them to him, once he's recovered.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    I don't know why, but the title Princess Captain makes me think that she's a Captain that's in charge of a battalion of Princesses. Rather than a Princess who is also a Captain.

    So, you going for a cyborg trandoshan when he comes back, or just sticking with the "they regenerate" shtick?

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    I don't know why, but the title Princess Captain makes me think that she's a Captain that's in charge of a battalion of Princesses. Rather than a Princess who is also a Captain.

    So, you going for a cyborg trandoshan when he comes back, or just sticking with the "they regenerate" shtick?
    He was actually already a cyborg... aside from burning a lot of force points (every time THEY used one, he got one), he also had a combat implant, allowing him to be proficient with grenades.

    So, I'm gonna make him a whole lot darker, yeah.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Hello, all. Haven't posted in a while, glad to see the new thread is already up and running. Nice title by the way, Mark. ;)

    Now, my SW business here is my contemplation over whether or not to include a Jedi NPC in my next session, where the party will be heading to Dxun to pick up some pricy cargo for their business relation (quest giver). My idea is that he was not an adult Jedi for very long before Order 66, so he didn't handle it well. I haven't figured out how he escaped the clones or made it to Dxun, but that's not such a big deal. The big deal is that he's become pretty paranoid, and may even be slipping towards madness, since he almost never leaves his home on Dxun. Anyways, here's the stat block I made for him so far.

    Andoor Habo CL 8

    Medium Ithorian (old) Jedi 8
    Force 9, Strong in the Force
    Init +3; Senses Perception +15
    Languages Basic, Bocce, Ithorese, Kel Dor

    Defenses Ref 19 (flat-footed 18), Fort 16, Will 27; Deflect
    hp 52; second wind +13/26; Threshold 16

    Speed 6 squares
    Melee lightsaber +7 (2d8+1)
    Ranged by weapon +7
    Base Atk +8; Grp +7
    Atk Options Melee Defense
    Special Actions bellow, Influence Savant 1/encounter, Telekinetic Savant 1/encounter
    Force Powers Known (Use The Force +18) farseeing, Force disarm, Force slam (2), Force stun (2), Force thrust (2), mind trick (2), plant surge (3), surge

    Abilities Str 5, Dex 9, Con 5, Int 15, Wis 23, Cha 19
    Special Qualities build lightsaber, survival instinct
    Talents Clear Mind, Deflect, Influence Savant, Telekinetic Savant
    Feats Force Sensitivity, Force Training (2), Martial Arts I, Melee Defense, Skill Focus (Knowledge [life sciences], Use the Force), Strong in the Force, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, simple weapons)
    Primary Skills Knowledge (life sciences) +16, Knowledge (physical sciences) +11, Perception +15, Survival +10 (may reroll but must keep the result of the reroll even if worse), Use the Force +18 (may reroll to avoid detection by other Force users but must keep the result of the reroll even if worse)
    Secondary Skills Acrobatics +3, Climb +1, Deception +8, Endurance +1, Gather Information +8, Initiative +3, Jump +1, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +6, Knowledge (galactic lore) +6, Knowledge (social sciences) +6, Knowledge (tactics) +6, Knowledge (technology) +6, Mechanics +6, Persuasion +8, Pilot +3, Ride +3, Stealth +3, Swim +1, Treat Injury +10, Use Computer +6
    Possessions aquata breather, fusion lantern, lightsaber, power generator, power pack, power recharger

    Notes:-
    He has been in hiding on Dxun since the end of the Clone Wars. What has such isolation done to him?

    -Probably going to switch out one of the powers for Beast Trick from the KOTOR book, since it'd be crazy useful on Dxun. Also, to clarify, this is a party of three Level 4 PCs with a Level 4 NPC (Although his first level is Non-Heroic). So, thoughts, suggestions, and questions are welcome.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Me, I'd put him in a semi-antagonistic role... one that can be met either with force, guile, or diplomacy.

    Maybe HE found their cargo. They catch him hauling it back to his lair for some reason (the lair, I think, should have an underwater portion), and they can overpower him... 4 level 4s v a single level 8? Or they might try to find things out from him... but he's going a bit mad. He's going to want something from somewhere... perhaps an old Mandalorian ruin from the Mandalorian Wars? He might be looking for an old droid for companionship, or some data about other Mandalorian caches, or the ever-popular "artifact of the Jedi dating back thousands of years."

    How they deal with him is up to them. They might fight, in which case, he's going to drop a number of nasty surprises on them (beast trick means he's got some horrible beast as his guardian). If they try to negotiate, they get sent on a fetch quest. They might befriend him, in which case, you might go with the "lone soldier" idea... he doesn't know that the war is over.

    It's basic, but it lets you play the character, enjoy having someone mad to use, and give them a potential mentor for oddness.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Me, I'd put him in a semi-antagonistic role... one that can be met either with force, guile, or diplomacy.

    Maybe HE found their cargo. They catch him hauling it back to his lair for some reason (the lair, I think, should have an underwater portion), and they can overpower him... 4 level 4s v a single level 8? Or they might try to find things out from him... but he's going a bit mad. He's going to want something from somewhere... perhaps an old Mandalorian ruin from the Mandalorian Wars? He might be looking for an old droid for companionship, or some data about other Mandalorian caches, or the ever-popular "artifact of the Jedi dating back thousands of years."

    How they deal with him is up to them. They might fight, in which case, he's going to drop a number of nasty surprises on them (beast trick means he's got some horrible beast as his guardian). If they try to negotiate, they get sent on a fetch quest. They might befriend him, in which case, you might go with the "lone soldier" idea... he doesn't know that the war is over.

    It's basic, but it lets you play the character, enjoy having someone mad to use, and give them a potential mentor for oddness.
    Ooh...I just had a wonderful idea...except, it's kind of awful...it's wondawful.

    So...the Scoundrel in the party (who has just multiclassed to Noble) happens to be Force Sensitive. Now, I see all sorts of shenanigans based on this. But...one thing I really do see now, is that maybe Andoor sees this one of two ways:

    1) It's a Jedi Hunter sent by the Empire to kill him.
    or
    2) Someone strong in the Force...I'm not alone!

    The wondawful thing I'm thinking is that I have him use Beast Trick on either a bunch of creatures (like Bomas or Maalraas) or one BIG creature to attack the meeting and get them away from the ship(s) so he can confront this new foe/friend (respectively). And by BIG creature, I mean a certain armored, alpha predator that made an appearance in the game that this thread is named after. >:)

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Just don't use the NPC as a DMPC that solves the PC's problems for them. As long as you avoid that, players will be OK.

    My semiunanswered question from the old thread: Master Privateer has two different sets of prereqs in two books. One is supposed to supersede the other. Does anyone (besides IdleMuse) houserule this?

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Similar question to Greyheart's.

    The players have all agreed that they don't like the Force, as it is OP, and they don't want it in the gamer. none of their characters have it. Is it extremely bad of me to give the Force to an NPC? Even if said NPC should not be in combat with them ever, and is more of a window dressing?
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by kreenlover View Post
    Similar question to Greyheart's.

    The players have all agreed that they don't like the Force, as it is OP, and they don't want it in the gamer. none of their characters have it. Is it extremely bad of me to give the Force to an NPC? Even if said NPC should not be in combat with them ever, and is more of a window dressing?
    Think of it this way. If you're playing a Clone Wars game and the players have some reason to interact with a Jedi would any of them be upset if that Jedi NPC had Force powers? Probably not. Same thing with the KotOR stuff, if you have a bunch of characters that aren't Jedi but are fighting Sith I think they'd be sorely disappointed if the Sith didn't have Force powers.

    I think what the players have decided as a group is that Force users are too disruptive for their play style. They don't want them in the group to play with, but would rather than have them to ROFLstomp.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by kreenlover View Post
    Similar question to Greyheart's.

    The players have all agreed that they don't like the Force, as it is OP, and they don't want it in the gamer. none of their characters have it. Is it extremely bad of me to give the Force to an NPC? Even if said NPC should not be in combat with them ever, and is more of a window dressing?
    I'd straight-up ask. "Hey, guys, I know you don't want to play Force-users, but do you mind if NPCs have them sometimes?"

    If they do mind, go with something that isn't going to have a lot of Force use in the game... like something during the Dark Times, between Order 66 and A New Hope.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Can you elaborate on why the players think the Force is overpowered? There may be some very simple solutions.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Well, first of all, it is set during the Dark Times.

    They think the force is OP because of mind trick, and lightning, and choke, and move object, and the sheer options that any force using character has. They also don't like how the Force is balanced in the game, and believe that it should be OP just like in the movies. They think a Force choke should be GG, and nothing you can do about it.

    So, needless to say, its easier to just say no force than to argue with them
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Huh...so, turns out that Beast Trick is a Talent, not a Force Power...? That's...well, I guess that makes it easier on my crazy Ithorian Jedi.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by kreenlover View Post
    Well, first of all, it is set during the Dark Times.

    They think the force is OP because of mind trick, and lightning, and choke, and move object, and the sheer options that any force using character has. They also don't like how the Force is balanced in the game, and believe that it should be OP just like in the movies. They think a Force choke should be GG, and nothing you can do about it.

    So, needless to say, its easier to just say no force than to argue with them
    Well, a Dark Times game should be low on Jedi characters, regardless of the rest of this debate.

    However, your players might need to realize that Force powers in Saga start off strong, but rapidly moderate to equality with other types of characters. This is ESPECIALLY apparent if the Force using PC takes Skill Focus: Use the Force early, because they gain, in effect, a large 'attack roll' bonus to their most important stat, their Use the Force skill check.

    In Saga games I GM, a PC is not allowed to take Skill Focus UTF until they attain Jedi Knight, or until they are of equivalent character level if they are not going into Jedi Knight. This (common here) houserule solves much of the issues.

    As for the individual powers you named:

    - Mind Trick's single, really strong facet is the ability to force an enemy to run away. I, however, rarely see a PC use it in that way, especially since they know the GM can equally use it to force a PC to run away from a combat. However, it's well applied if, say, the Jedi wants to make a guard leave, and that's no different than a persuasive or stealth character accomplishing the same goal (get past guard.)

    - Force Lighting, again, starts off strong and moderates. Its damage does not scale with level, so the higher level the game becomes, the less of a threat (it's still dangerous) it becomes.

    - Force Grip has errata, and you need to be sure you are using it. That said, it is a nasty power, but it forces the user to focus on one target, and they are vulnerable to getting ganked by another attacker. And honestly, it's just as dangerous to make a Wookiee PC that grapples (actually, probably worse, damage wise.)

    - Move Object, again, is highly dependent on when you let people take Skill Focus. If they take it early, they can do a lot of damage, yes, but like Force Lightning, eventually it moderates. Also, the GM is entirely allowed to say that you can only do so much damage with a flung item, no matter what your skill check total is. You can say that you must actually fling a Huge size object in order to get Huge damage. You don't have to let them make huge rolls and dish out huge damage flinging single bricks around.

    As for them thinking the Force should be OP, Force grip should just autowin, have you ever asked them "OK then, we also don't see anyone (with one or two notable exceptions) who is able to keep fighting after taking one blaster bolt hit or one melee weapon (including lightsabers) hit. Do you want to play a game like that?" Their argument is rather invalid if they say yes to one and no to the other.

    Edit: I didn't want to write a wall of text, but: If they think that Force using characters are OP, we could show you ways to make some scouts and soldiers that will lay waste to enemies like Boba Fett and the Terminator on cocaine. :)
    Last edited by Alejandro; 2013-09-07 at 08:26 AM.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    - Entirely invalidating my players complaints -
    Thanks. I do know how to make scouts and soldiers that can roflstomp a party with their eyes closed, but thank you for the offer. It was more of an ethical question anyways, as I know that the Force isn't OP, but they wouldn't let me explain it. Like I said, it is easier to just let them ban the Force.

    I may just remove the force user from the game.

    Thanks everyone!
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by kreenlover View Post
    Thanks. I do know how to make scouts and soldiers that can roflstomp a party with their eyes closed, but thank you for the offer. It was more of an ethical question anyways, as I know that the Force isn't OP, but they wouldn't let me explain it. Like I said, it is easier to just let them ban the Force.

    I may just remove the force user from the game.

    Thanks everyone!
    Are they OK with banning Force Points too? You can't really let them ban the Force and still let them have Force Points. :)

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by kreenlover View Post
    Similar question to Greyheart's.

    The players have all agreed that they don't like the Force, as it is OP, and they don't want it in the gamer. none of their characters have it. Is it extremely bad of me to give the Force to an NPC? Even if said NPC should not be in combat with them ever, and is more of a window dressing?
    Heh.

    I'm still wondering why your players want to play STAR WARS with out the Force or Jedi/Sith. That's like saying "I want to be a NASCAR driver...but I think we should ban the car's because they much faster than my Kia."
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    The person who wanted to ban the force may actually be leaving the group.

    So, yah...
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by kreenlover View Post
    The person who wanted to ban the force may actually be leaving the group.

    So, yah...
    Oh, so it's actually a specific player, and not the whole group? You had indicated the players all agreed they wanted to ban it.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    they agreed, but he was the most vocal about it. the others would likely not mind either way

    Also, Mutazoia, thats exactly what I thought!

    But they all like Thrawn better than Jedi anyways, so that explains things...
    Last edited by kreenlover; 2013-09-07 at 11:12 AM.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Just a bit on Force Grip, since I saw it in Alejandro's list; it's really, really good when used as a 'snipe' force power. If you can get within 12 squares but hidden (for instance, on an overlooking balcony or something), there's not much your target can do to not die, assuming you can hit their fort defense to stop them moving away. If they have a bodyguard or retinue of some kind, they can try to move them into cover, but you can still follow to keep in range. And that's not usually most people's first thought when they see their charge choking; it's only gonna take a minute or so to kill someone, while they try to clear their throat or check for poisons. Particularly in eras where the force isn't well known, this is a deadly and often unnoticeable assassination tool. I house-rule it to have [Dark Side].

    It was even worse before errata, when you only needed to be in LoS.
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Alright so myself and a few players want to do a Star Wars Saga Edition game. My GM has a few of the books but has never run a game of it before.

    He is worried the mechanics of the game might be too different from say d20 modern or 3.P.

    Is there many differences? He has the Force Unleashed Campaign Book, Along with the Clone Wars and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Books. I think he has a total of 7 books he got off another friend when he bought all his books from him So he has a good selection He has the core book, Scum and Villainy and the Space ship one.

    What should I tell him to reassure him it won't be a clusterf*ck and be at least a little fun?

    - I was told to post this here by another poster in the 3.5 section.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    It is basically the same system with a few big improvements. I have found that character creation takes about a third as much time as D+D, the rules and combat are basically the same, and the biggest change is the sheer number of options from each class, as well as the static defenses.

    It is very similar to 4e in some ways (skills, etc.) so if you have any experience with that its good. Otherwise, if you give the rules a once-over it is so very straightforwards that any RPer can get it without much trouble. I have taught it to first timers in one or two sessions, with actual gameplay as well. So, better than D+D in that manner
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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Noobborn View Post
    Alright so myself and a few players want to do a Star Wars Saga Edition game. My GM has a few of the books but has never run a game of it before.

    He is worried the mechanics of the game might be too different from say d20 modern or 3.P.

    Is there many differences? He has the Force Unleashed Campaign Book, Along with the Clone Wars and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Books. I think he has a total of 7 books he got off another friend when he bought all his books from him So he has a good selection He has the core book, Scum and Villainy and the Space ship one.

    What should I tell him to reassure him it won't be a clusterf*ck and be at least a little fun?

    - I was told to post this here by another poster in the 3.5 section.
    Better balance between classes (though still far from perfect)
    Easier multiclassing
    Classes gain talents (that are chosen from several telent trees)
    There are only 5 basic classes (time and effort were spent on extra talents,feats and prestige classes as opposed to more basic classes)
    IMO: The force becomes more balanced the higher level the player characters get.

    note: based on my very limited experience with d&d 3.5

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Noobborn View Post
    Alright so myself and a few players want to do a Star Wars Saga Edition game. My GM has a few of the books but has never run a game of it before.

    He is worried the mechanics of the game might be too different from say d20 modern or 3.P.

    Is there many differences? He has the Force Unleashed Campaign Book, Along with the Clone Wars and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Books. I think he has a total of 7 books he got off another friend when he bought all his books from him So he has a good selection He has the core book, Scum and Villainy and the Space ship one.

    What should I tell him to reassure him it won't be a clusterf*ck and be at least a little fun?



    - I was told to post this here by another poster in the 3.5 section.
    It'll be just fine. Great multiclassing, talents and feats are fun, many options for play. Probably my favorite d20 system.

    One houserule you might consider: Don't let people take Skill Focus Use the Force until they reach Jedi Knight or equivalent heroic level. You'll avoid one of the few headaches of the game (Force characters with that Skill Focus being extremely strong in early levels.)

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    If you've played d20 Modern, that's the game it's closest to, as far as I know. They reportedly poached/tested out some (pre?) beta 4e ideas for the core book (i.e. greatly increased 1st level HP for heroes, static defenses, ½-level + ability + 5-if-trained for skills, encounter-based mechanic for Force powers and Starship maneuvers, expanded the turn to formally include the Swift Action from the start and moved some actions from Move to Swift), and some of the later books introduce a couple concepts from post-release 4e, but the class feature structure (alternating talent and bonus feat) is from d20 Modern.

    The most notable anomaly to the combat rules in Saga is that ranged weapons do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and light enough weapons (pistols, carbines with a folded stock) can be used to make attacks of opportunity (though they only threaten the adjacent square).

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